I have ridden boards from 14ft to 9ft2 in the surf and after 7 years on a sup I have ended up around the 10ft 6 to 11ft length in board as ideal for the stand up in surf.
I came to SUPs from windsurfing to longboarding all my life, now 57. Forced by back problems to suping or give up surfing SUPs it was. No regrets.
So here the quandary. If you like shorter boards than 10ft, why would you chose it to be a sup, when a long board or mal 8ft to 10ft is so much better to ride, you don't get smashed around so much with all that board and paddle, and so much more manoverable.
I see so many SUPs out there that spend so much time struggling to stay up right, getting blown of by a 10 knot breeze and missing so many waves.Why would you do it if you're in a position to have the choice.
Just opening a conversation if you're interested.

Interesting question. Obviously many dont see it the same way - as far as "struggling to stay up right.... missing so many waves".. as there certainly is advantages over a board in certain conditions. For me.... as I am around your age... I am getting back into surfing, after a balance issue some years ago. SUP is probably not logical for me... as it is not easy...but that is sort of the point. As a sales rep said to me the other day... as you progress in SUP experience, dont upgrade to something you find easy to balance and ride... there has to be a challenge and learning curve to progress. I will probably never get to the point where I am riding 90litre, 7 foot something boards - but Ill be trying as hard as possible. I see it as a challenge and a way to keep my fitness up! Sometimes we do things that are more difficult... because they are exactly that?

Interesting conversation.I have always been a prone longboarder usually boards over 10',mostly 11' and sometimes 12'.My sup at present is a Anderson Nimitz 12'.I find I tend to ride it like a longboard almost to the point of forgetting about the paddle unless paddling to bridge a flat section.This actually makes me think that maybe I don't need a longboard as a sup.I prefer to take the prone longboards out whenever it is good,taking the Nimitz out when it is flat or tiny.I am considering the purchase of a short sup just for the experience and the difference.I am not young and fit enough to use a prone shortboard very much,but may be able to experience some slash and burn on a short sup.However if I was compelled to sup only by health or injury my leaning would definitely be longboard.But Viva the difference

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LordKuz said..
Interesting question. Obviously many dont see it the same way - as far as "struggling to stay up right.... missing so many waves".. as there certainly is advantages over a board in certain conditions. For me.... as I am around your age... I am getting back into surfing, after a balance issue some years ago. SUP is probably not logical for me... as it is not easy...but that is sort of the point. As a sales rep said to me the other day... as you progress in SUP experience, dont upgrade to something you find easy to balance and ride... there has to be a challenge and learning curve to progress. I will probably never get to the point where I am riding 90litre, 7 foot something boards - but Ill be trying as hard as possible. I see it as a challenge and a way to keep my fitness up! Sometimes we do things that are more difficult... because they are exactly that?

I guess at 57 I'm trying to make things easier for myself. I know I've had so many more waves and so much more fun on my recent board of 10.6 11.than I ever had on shorter boards. It must be age for me. I know when I was windsurfing in the early years I wanted shorter and shorter wave boards that just got harder and harder to ride, but then turned back to longer again as I got older. I guess also you have to throw into the equation that the performance of longer boards now is unreal as to 10 years ago.

It is an interesting topic, I'm nearly 50 and rode a longboard pretty much all the time till I started SUP about 4 years ago. Started on a 9'6, nothing around too much shorter then, and have worked my way down to 8' (and intend to go shorter).
What I found was that when I went back onto my longboard I didn't enjoy it as much cause I found it a bit sluggish and hard to turn, cause of riding SUP more like a shortboard, so now if I'm not on SUP I ride a 6' fish and loving it, it's harder to get waves than SUP or longboard but I'm just really enjoying shortboarding again

For me I am happy to sacrifice leading performance for stable board that gives me more time in the water and more waves.

I have 5 boards, that range from 10 (30'' wide) - 11' (33'' wide) and an old early board from Hawaii that is 10'6 (35'' wide). I also have a Naish inflatable for holidays

With winter dominated by kids weekend sport my surfing is limited to the odd afternoon here and there but since footy has finished I have Sunday's back and have been down each week. I tend to stick with the 11' board on most days and pick up the Anderson board when conditions are perfect at Big Left, for me 3 - 4', no wind and fit.

If its windy or choppy - I am getting tired after an hour on to 30'' wide board, very soft I know - the only worry on the big board is my feet cramping and cold in the 12 deg water at the moment.

SUP for Laird and others continues the push to bigger and more crazy waves- for me there is nothing better that a good bottom turn and a pealing wave on a sunny day.

the shear quantity of waves and options that sup offers is fantastic

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broadman said..
So here the quandary. If you like shorter boards than 10ft, why would you chose it to be a sup, when a long board or mal 8ft to 10ft is so much better to ride, you don't get smashed around so much with all that board and paddle, and so much more manoverable.
I see so many SUPs out there that spend so much time struggling to stay up right, getting blown of by a 10 knot breeze and missing so many waves.Why would you do it if you're in a position to have the choice.

Because there are 2 kind of ~ 7' long SUPs:

[1] The "world cup" ones, where you want to maximize rail-to-rail performance in good waves and nothing else. They are actually not so much short as extremely narrow, low sinking volume, and extreme rocker. On these, you are "struggling to stay up right". Look at the Vaz brothers, Mo Freitas, etc... videos. I cannot ride them.

[2] The ShortSUPs, with a shorter length but sane widths and confy volume. These are actually quite stable, much easier in late take offs and hollow waves than longer SUPs, with insane accelerations and exhilarations. Plus you get back the thrill of the "pop" of the shortboard take off. And they are so fun in small slow waves, with appropriate shapes. People will all ages and fitness can enjoy them. Prone surfing just feels slow and boring compared to them in everyday waves.
See for instance:
- My Gongs / www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/Stand-Up-Paddle/Review/New-610-Simmons-SUP/
- Rod (Boardbumps) Sunfish www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/Stand-Up-Paddle/SUP/Sub-7ft-SunFish-SUP/
- and of course, the Minion www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/Stand-Up-Paddle/Review/DEEP-Oceanboards-72-Minion-Review/
- and all people riding custom "wide and short" SUPs, mini Simmons, fishes, wombats, etc...

So I'd say you just saw [1], people fooled by advertisement to buy the same boards are world cup pro riders. The same phenomenon as the people just acting as buoys on the spot on their toothpick prone shortboards, not taking any wave.
But we are more and more to have discovered the sheer fun of [2] (and of course longer SUps are also fun too, but differently).

Why is every post so farkin long ?
What's wrong with you people ?
I can't read all that.

I have three surf sups at present. My preference is to have 2 that I can ride quite comfortably and at least one that is a bit if a challenge. I did get sucked in to the whole "must keep going shorter and smaller in order to progress" mind set but eventually I woke up.... To me it's about having the most fun possible and at times challenging myself a bit.

Good topic. I am early 50s and surfed since a teen. I like mixing it up and riding my mal a couple of times a week, or if a little bigger my McCoy nugget. That leaves the sup for 2 or 3 times a week either in surf or baysurf. You are right about getting knocked around alot more on a Sup in the surf as the swell rises. The wind is also a limiting factor for my enjoyment on a sup. The fun part is changing your board according to conditions and crowds. I find the cross over between boards keeps me challenged. I hope to keep surfing another decade and would probably give up the sup in the surf before a mal due to that knock around factor.

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NewScotty said..
Why is every post so farkin long ?
What's wrong with you people ?
I can't read all that.

Who let the Gen Y into the room?

The more you sup the better you get. The better you get, the more you can cope with difficult conditions, the more waves you catch and the higher performance boards become easier to ride. I hardly surf my mal now because I look at the waves and conditions and think, hmmm think I will be better on my sup today. Still like to take the mal out occasionally but often end up swapping it for my standup half way through the session. I'm thinking at some point in time the mal will stay home in the garage.

Surfing since 1964 on Logs, then the noserider revolution, then all manner of shortboards.

SUP allows me to revisit all of the best parts of my surf history.

It took 3 years to work myself back to my shortboard days, but the reward is amazing. Harder for sure at 66, but amazing non the less. I am grateful to be transported in the "Way back machine"... at 100kg, I need to be on my game to ride my 120 liter board.

After a few OH shortboard sessions this week, I was super stoked to have a great session yesterday on my 10'6 Laird Surfer.... for 40 years, I always loved a longboard in small clean waves..... the skill set and rewards to really turn a longboard and noseride, are in a league of their own.

Variety baby.... variety!

@broadman

It,s obvious you never surfed the hokua x 32 8.8.

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flowmaster said..
@broadman

It,s obvious you never surfed the hokua x 32 8.8.

No I haven't, and doubt that I will, but by mentioning it it must be pretty awesome. I guess there many factors that there is to look at. The style of surfing your happy with, your skill level etc. I do take my hat of to those of you over 50ish that can till, and want to take out a shorter board, and keep slashing, my skill levels aren't there. Every minute I can spend on the water I want to get the absolute most out of. To me that's a long board style surfing as opposed to a balancing act and getting exhausted with the challenges of a short board

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broadman said..

flowmaster said..
@broadman

It,s obvious you never surfed the hokua x 32 8.8.

No I haven't, and doubt that I will, but by mentioning it it must be pretty awesome. I guess there many factors that there is to look at. The style of surfing your happy with, your skill level etc. I do take my hat of to those of you over 50ish that can till, and want to take out a shorter board, and keep slashing, my skill levels aren't there. Every minute I can spend on the water I want to get the absolute most out of. To me that's a long board style surfing as opposed to a balancing act and getting exhausted with the challenges of a short board

Or a Starby 8' 10" x 32" widepoint. Length doesn't automatically mean more stability, I couldn't believe how stable that board was the first time I got on it, more stable than many of the 10'+ boards that I've tried. Width has much more to do with stability than length, don't ever try a 14' SIC or other DW type board, you'll hate it.

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HumanCartoon said...

NewScotty said..
Why is every post so farkin long ?
What's wrong with you people ?
I can't read all that.

Who let the Gen Y into the room?

If I was Gen Y, I would have some app which could summarise some of these dossiers.
There's less words in the Canterbury Tales FFS.

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colas said..

broadman said..
So here the quandary. If you like shorter boards than 10ft, why would you chose it to be a sup, when a long board or mal 8ft to 10ft is so much better to ride, you don't get smashed around so much with all that board and paddle, and so much more manoverable.
I see so many SUPs out there that spend so much time struggling to stay up right, getting blown of by a 10 knot breeze and missing so many waves.Why would you do it if you're in a position to have the choice.

Because there are 2 kind of ~ 7' long SUPs:

[1] The "world cup" ones, where you want to maximize rail-to-rail performance in good waves and nothing else. They are actually not so much short as extremely narrow, low sinking volume, and extreme rocker. On these, you are "struggling to stay up right". Look at the Vaz brothers, Mo Freitas, etc... videos. I cannot ride them.

[2] The ShortSUPs, with a shorter length but sane widths and confy volume. These are actually quite stable, much easier in late take offs and hollow waves than longer SUPs, with insane accelerations and exhilarations. Plus you get back the thrill of the "pop" of the shortboard take off. And they are so fun in small slow waves, with appropriate shapes. People will all ages and fitness can enjoy them. Prone surfing just feels slow and boring compared to them in everyday waves.
See for instance:
- My Gongs / www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/Stand-Up-Paddle/Review/New-610-Simmons-SUP/
- Rod (Boardbumps) Sunfish www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/Stand-Up-Paddle/SUP/Sub-7ft-SunFish-SUP/
- and of course, the Minion www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/Stand-Up-Paddle/Review/DEEP-Oceanboards-72-Minion-Review/
- and all people riding custom "wide and short" SUPs, mini Simmons, fishes, wombats, etc...

So I'd say you just saw [1], people fooled by advertisement to buy the same boards are world cup pro riders. The same phenomenon as the people just acting as buoys on the spot on their toothpick prone shortboards, not taking any wave.
But we are more and more to have discovered the sheer fun of [2] (and of course longer SUps are also fun too, but differently).

Is that you on that board ?
Great post!
looks like a fun spot
There is a brand of board here in Aus called JP and they have a wide body shortish board. My brother has one and they are extremely fun to surf and can carry the excess baggage that some of older bloke carry lol getting back into the water after a some 20 years of not having a board I found SUP to be a awesome fitness builder and for me I suppose once I get my balance back into shape I may go a shorter board but I only have a 12' SUPATX and a new edition Glide 14'x29.25 the 12' is just a big ol Mal I just need the time now to get out on the water !!!YEOOOOOWWW!!

Probably number one and the only reason that really matters, dropping in to a wave from a fully standing position is the most joyful experience and sets up even the most mundane wave ride to be a great experience. Given that many wave rides only last 10 seconds or so then that extra time really adds to the experience.

On a longboard you have to catch the wave, jump to your feet, then ride. That's fine on a good wave, but not all waves are that good.

The other reason is that my 8'11" SUP feels like a shortboard to ride so I don't have to do all that log board walking up and down.

If the conditions are not suitable for my SUP I'll ride my short board, or go kiting or whatever.

The reason I prefer my shortish SUP over a longer one is it fits in the car and weighs literally nothing (<6kg). I agree that a 10'+ SUP is a better choice for general riding (because the greater length gives more speed to chase down unbroken waves) but the commercially available ones are too heavy. I lose the will to live lugging them around.

Decided to go a Naish Mana 9' in 2012 and that made me realize, at that point in time, that at 52 yo , 95kg and 6'2', I'm too big for these boards and should either go the longboard style SUP, or stick to my mal, or both. I was getting plenty of exercise and core strength conditioning on the Mana, but due to all the wrong reasons. In anything other than smooth conditions, I would be falling off and having to remount too many times. If I remember correctly the Mana was 29 wide. Interestingly, if I ditched the paddle, it rode as a superb surfboard, it's just I couldn't stand on it when there were choppy conditions. In calm conditions, I could paddle forever without falling off. So this was the crunch..give up the Mana to catch more waves on my longboard style sup, or just use the mal. Given that the dead calm conditions are rare [with waves] I decided to stick to the mal.
But my mindset has now changed with the production of wide short very stable sups. A mate of mine bought a 8'11''Fanatic Allwave and has never even surfed [or supped] before, and is having a great time, and hardly ever falls off even in choppy conditions. So it looks like anyone can ride these short sups and they even surf well. So maybe it's time to dive back into it. Problem is I'm an old style surfer and look down the line, trim, and go the nose , rather than go vertical, but most people don't go vertical on the short sups anyway. Colas makes it look fun even in small stuff.

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moyzie said..

Is that you on that board ?

Yup. I am 54 years old, 100kg, and too stiff now to prone surf confortably (cannot open the legs enough anymore to sit on the board...) Video was in Hossegor on a tiny day. Note that I was enjoying this peak all by myself while 50+ shortboarders were hassling each other on a better peak 100 meters away...
And I would not even have considering going surfing in these conditions when I was prone surfing...

Note that I started SUPing 5 years ago, with ~ 2 sessions/week, and you need some time to get your paddling technique OK enough for ShortSUP. After 2 years SUPing I couldn't believe SUPs less than 9' were actually enjoyable. No need to rush going shorter, it takes time.

Here is a vid of a better surfer, with a true shortboard style, with a 6'10" SUP (shape for more powerful waves: The "Fatal")

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colas said..

moyzie said..

Is that you on that board ?

Yup. I am 54 years old, 100kg, and too stiff now to prone surf confortably (cannot open the legs enough anymore to sit on the board...) Video was in Hossegor on a tiny day. Note that I was enjoying this peak all by myself while 50+ shortboarders were hassling each other on a better peak 100 meters away...
And I would not even have considering going surfing in these conditions when I was prone surfing...

Note that I started SUPing 5 years ago, with ~ 2 sessions/week, and you need some time to get your paddling technique OK enough for ShortSUP. After 2 years SUPing I couldn't believe SUPs less than 9' were actually enjoyable. No need to rush going shorter, it takes time.

Here is a vid of a better surfer, with a true shortboard style, with a 6'10" SUP (shape for more powerful waves: The "Fatal")

Nice vid But if I stood on a 6'10" Sup I would be floating around my knees bahahaha I'm also at 109-111KG but only a young pup at 43 y/o It will take time but, I will get back to the waves I have a Alana 9'5" on Laybuy for my wife hem hem!! it has a second use and probably a more primary use ...... that's for me to surf. I have heard you should buy a board you expect to be on in 6 months. Also it's really pretty too for her hehehehe

colas said.
Here is a vid of a better surfer, with a true shortboard style.


Selling yourself short there Colas, I prefer your smooth style to the other surfer in the vid
old boys have to stick together

It's a good question, and I've often thought about the motivations of others to sup who might not be injured like some of us. I would give almost anything to surf like I could before April 2003 when 3 prolapsed discs caught up with me at 33 when I was in my prime. I bodysurfed for 5 years until my youngest was 2 and it wasn't essential to pick up little kids anymore, when I started supping. I love the early wave entry but I would much rather spin round and do a no-paddle takeoff straight into a barrel. I love leaning into a roundhouse on a paddle, but I'd much rather belt through a figure 8 on a 6'8". I would love to be back on a short board but it ain't gonna happen.

Luckily i I started riding different craft while my back was still good, and I think I understand the technical prowess involved to ride any craft (or bodysurf) well, though I missed alais unfortunately. I think whatever you ride, if you try and ride it well and respect others in the water, take turns etc, then you're all right.

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supthecreek said..
Surfing since 1964 on Logs, then the noserider revolution, then all manner of shortboards.

SUP allows me to revisit all of the best parts of my surf history.

It took 3 years to work myself back to my shortboard days, but the reward is amazing. Harder for sure at 66, but amazing non the less. I am grateful to be transported in the "Way back machine"... at 100kg, I need to be on my game to ride my 120 liter board.

After a few OH shortboard sessions this week, I was super stoked to have a great session yesterday on my 10'6 Laird Surfer.... for 40 years, I always loved a longboard in small clean waves..... the skill set and rewards to really turn a longboard and noseride, are in a league of their own.

Variety baby.... variety!

Hey supthecreek, we must be bobsie twins,I started in 1963 not in 100kg league but other wise I'm in the same boat,so to speak.
I couldn't imagine just riding one style of any surf craft,let alone one style of sup.
I really enjoy your vids and thoughts on your side of the pond,please keep them coming.

Cheers, Rocket.

thanks Rocket... I really enjoy the action on the Breeze... you folks get all the new boards first, so it's also great to here your take on the hot boards of the season.

Tomorrow, I am heading to Maine for the weekend (700k round trip) with my 10'6 Alana and my 9'6 Prowave. Going up to try a fellow Zoners 8'8 32LE and some other, shorter boards he has.... love the options we have in SUP.

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broadman said..
So here the quandary. If you like shorter boards than 10ft, why would you chose it to be a sup, when a long board or mal 8ft to 10ft is so much better to ride, you don't get smashed around so much with all that board and paddle, and so much more manoverable.

Select to expand quote

Colas said..The "world cup" ones, where you want to maximize rail-to-rail performance in good waves and nothing else. They are actually not so much short as extremely narrow, low sinking volume, and extreme rocker. On these, you are "struggling to stay up right". Look at the Vaz brothers, Mo Freitas, etc... videos. I cannot ride them.

1. Not everyone on "world cup" boards struggle to stay upright. Witness Keahi for one example. Witness Daniel Hughes. Witness... me... for another example. I may not be any good at surfing, but I certainly don't struggle to remain upright on the "world cup" style boards, and the wind here is rarely under 10 knots. I'd love to have a great discussion about *why* some pros are riding struggle boards whilst others do not, but that's neither here nor there.

2. With the struggle out of the way, what's not to like about tiny standups? I can cruise for miles, hit lots of different spots, all the while surfing the various waves "properly." Not only can you ride the nose with ease on the small standups (they're still 7'+ after all), you can turn and attempt aggressive maneuvers too.

It's the best of all worlds.

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JeanG said..

1. Not everyone on "world cup" boards struggle to stay upright. Witness Keahi for one example.

Sorry, I wasn't clear. I meant that *I*, average oldish joe (fitness-wise) cannot ride them. Of course young athletes can ride them.

My personal experience is that you can drastically reduce volume, length, and width. As long as one of the 3 parameters stays in the "confort zone" they are actually quite easy to handle. But when I reduce the 3 close to my limits, there is a threshold where all hell breaks loose.
I have SUPed:
- 5'9" boards but with enough width (30") & volume (+10)
- my 9'1" prone longboard, 23" and -30l volume (as long as I can paddle)
- 7'6" sinking boards (100l for my 100kg) but with 29" width
- but a 7'4" x 25' x 110l was total hell for me, even on flat water www.gong-galaxy.com/magazine/news/proto-7-4-final-xtr/
adding just a tad length or width or volume would have made it rideable however.

Maybe your boards are just above this "hell threshold" for your weight/height+balance ? And of course I guess that practice allows to lower your "hell threshold"...

Tang: "spin round and do a no-paddle takeoff straight into a barrel" is what ShortSUP can provide again

My point is simply that the world cup style boards needn't be a struggle to ride. I am not that young, am not a pro athlete, yet am able to ride them just fine.

I haven't gone below my weight in volume, and don't think that I ever will. I weigh 71kg and like to keep my boards above 80L. Lowest volume world cup board I have is 74L, and it's fine but lacks the glide I like to have. Harder to stand on than my 80L+ boards but not "hard."

So I agree: so long as one of the three factors is comfortable, you're fine. But there's no reason that a world cup board has to be outside of your comfort zone....

ps - that gong 7'4x25 looks awesome

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TheGoodDr said..
colas said.
Here is a vid of a better surfer, with a true shortboard style.


Selling yourself short there Colas, I prefer your smooth style to the other surfer in the vid
old boys have to stick together

I agree with the GoodDr .Colas you are under rating yourself,I prefer your style as well.Makes a real shortboard look like great fun,and isn't that what it is all about

I think I must have caught SCOTTYitist.

I know people like to be technical and dissect things but why not just go and SUP and forget about the technical shizzz.

Just saying.

ET.