a very good upwind board for the qld titles if the race is held on the north to south run.


just seen the proposed course



it involves paddling from snapper to currumbin/winders pk but with a ever so slight twist-

you have paddle to tallabudgera first then go back 5 k's to currumbin/winders pk.


very very heavy going if the south winds get up. and upwind section at the back end of the race not the start




might just be the first time ever paddlers will be hoping for a northerly run from broadie to currumbin

Might be just the thing to give an old dog (akaLacey) a chance to pip those young go-hards.

You could use some of your hard learnt local knowledge and skill to down the blow-ins.

Good luck young man.

ET.

People who run these events must think paddling up wind is a fun part of the sport that we all love to do?

I have just done a race here in Europe where we did a 7km great DW paddle in 15knots then for some reason we had to paddle back to the start line so 7km straight in to the swell and wind, yes it sucked even for us but I really felt bad for all the new guys doing the race paddling on there knees or even in some cases not been able to finish!! Wonder how those people liked sup racing and if we will ever see them again!!

It so easy, if you are doing a long race and its windy then point to point is the go make it DW as that is one of the most fun parts of our sport if it is no wind then yes a big course race is possible so you can start and finish at the same point but have 2 plans one for wind and one for no wind, easy!!

So they've posted the dates then?

^SUP racer has.

Well that sucks...

I don't know if I will be tempted to travel all that way and pay $$$'s just to paddle into a headwind, shame I was looking forward to visiting Currumbin again, had a lot of fun at last years Nats. I think the premier distance race for the sport/country should be a point to point downwind race. We already have the BOP to test our upwind/downwind and surf skills.

Maybe the elite crew need to have a word to the event organisers to keep the event as fun as possible or people may stop making the effort to attend.

Bleachy.

I like the idea of moving away from the 9km flatwater paddle thats formed the second half of the race for the last couple of years, but having a 5km upwind section at the end of a 16km race isn't going to appeal to anyone. Sure the elite paddlers can manage (but not enjoy) it, but its likely to discourage anyone who isn't looking for state team selection from even having a go.

If they want to run a 16km ocean race in a southerly, and are restricted to starting in QLD waters, then finishing somewhere other than Currumbin Creek really needs to be considered. Not sure whether they have sponsorship ties that dictate finishing at Currumbin, but without a course that encourages participation, any event sponsor is unlikely to get their money's worth anyway?

Or if the course is set so the traditional 9km Xcel Open Ocean Race can still run alongside the longer distance to encourage higher participation, maybe they could consider an alternate start location for the long distance race at Bilinga, then hug the coastline south to a buoy off Kirra Groyne, out to another buoy off Snapper then a downwind run home? It's not ideal, but at least the upwind section would be first, more protected and an hour or so earlier so a chance of lighter wind too.

Otherwise, maybe just use the traditional 9km course as the QLD State Title and qualifier (shorter distances have been used in other states before) and focus on making it FUN for EVERYONE!!!

BTW Bleachy, I'm pretty sure Mark is talking about the course for QLD State Titles (still nothing on Surfing QLD website though) so you can still hold onto a little bit of hope that Nationals could be different (though I'm not sure how likely that will be).

From rainbow bay to seaway we have like 30klms of beach there has to be do many options running a one way course either south north or north south.. Burliegh into the seaway..has to be around 16klm..

Yep Bring on the Northlies. Just like yesterday But down the Tweed hey?

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supsurfers said...
From rainbow bay to seaway we have like 30klms of beach there has to be do many options running a one way course either south north or north south.. Burliegh into the seaway..has to be around 16klm..

burleigh to seaway would have to be a south west or south wind and it would be pretty good. se would be side on up there , ese wind pretty much on shore


ali is probably right about sponsors and her idea of paddling up tight to the coastline from bilinga first to snapper makes a lot more sense.


still just run 16 ks from snapper to where ever is the go.


the event course must come first and foremost otherwise you will lose the numbers.

upwind paddles are least do-able on sups compare to other paddle sports

cheers

Don't we love to live in NSW

just make sure we can do the bob in 25 knts again that was fun

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Al Hunter said...
Don't we love to live in NSW

your qld visa has been suspended- no more currumbin ck paddlers training for you. border protection have been notified

Yeah sorry about that, I got a bit carried away thinking it was national titles.

Although I still stand by my comments for any SUP race really. For instance, Molokai2Oahu and The Doctor, 2 of the biggest SUP races in the world both have courses where its planned and accepted it will not be 100% downwind. I would much rather compete in races such as King of the Cut or the one along the Maliko run (sorry can't remember the name) as they seem a lot more appealing/fun. Maybe these older more established races were designed around surf skis/kayaks etc, where the use of rudders and being lower/much faster makes cross wind/upwind paddling not too much of an issue. I would say that SUPs are one of the slowest paddle sports upwind...

Hope you guys get a good course for your states, I know ours will be around 15km straight downwind.

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Ali Cat said...

BTW Bleachy, I'm pretty sure Mark is talking about the course for QLD State Titles (still nothing on Surfing QLD website though) so you can still hold onto a little bit of hope that Nationals could be different (though I'm not sure how likely that will be).

So we've seen the most recent NSW and Victorian State Titles distance races, and now the QLD event run over a circuit course rather than a pure open ocean downwinder. The ISA World Title distance race was also a circuit course on a lake. As Jacko mentions on this thread, world tour events seem to be leaning towards circuits and often on flat water. I think the writing is on the wall - event organisers don't want to run ocean downwinders.


















(PS. Feel free to red thumb, I won't take it personally as this is an observation of what's happening rather than an opinion of what should happen.)

Agree with the 14 foot class but upwind???
Surfing NSW have been unreal with our state titles here in NSW. They openly admitted they don't know much about SUP and ask us for input all the time. We have had 3 downwinders now at our state titles. Winds were light this year and they could have done a course visible to the finish area that would have been good for sponsors and spectators , however, they still listened to the paddlers and we did a downwinder in light conditions on the best course possible.
Are Surfing Qld communicating with any of the paddlers via a committee etc or are they just making decisions blindly?

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PTWoody said...

Ali Cat said...

BTW Bleachy, I'm pretty sure Mark is talking about the course for QLD State Titles (still nothing on Surfing QLD website though) so you can still hold onto a little bit of hope that Nationals could be different (though I'm not sure how likely that will be).

So we've seen the most recent NSW and Victorian State Titles distance races, and now the QLD event run over a circuit course rather than a pure open ocean downwinder. The ISA World Title distance race was also a circuit course on a lake. As Jacko mentions on this thread, world tour events seem to be leaning towards circuits and often on flat water. I think the writing is on the wall - event organisers don't want to run ocean downwinders.


















(PS. Feel free to red thumb, I won't take it personally as this is an observation of what's happening rather than an opinion of what should happen.)

ISA Distance course was point to point. Not purely DW, not purely upwind, not purely flat water. It had a bit of everything and in my mind that is what creates a world champion, not just someone who is good at one discipline of the sport but can hold their own across all types of water and paddling.

Personally I would much rather do a 20km DW than 20km in the flat.

Bleachy you are not alone in going for the King of the Cut rather than the Dr. Although they have moved it to earlier in the season when there is more likely wind the direction is still not straight. A lot of the local guys have been put off doing the Dr now that the King of The Cut has come along.

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surf4fun said...

ISA Distance course was point to point. Not purely DW, not purely upwind, not purely flat water. It had a bit of everything and in my mind that is what creates a world champion, not just someone who is good at one discipline of the sport but can hold their own across all types of water and paddling.

Would you describe this course as point to point? Seems more like a circuit to me, and certainly nothing like the ideal layout for a perfect downwind course that many people are advocating. If this is meant to be the pinnacle of the sport, and all of our state titles and nationals are designed as a pathway to this event, then it is clearly dissuading our state surfing bodies / event organisers from planning pure downwind races at their state titles.

Nevertheless, I guess you make a good point about a world champion being the best over a number of disciplines. Nobody has ever said it is the downwind world championship.




Also, I agree with Bleachy, King of the Cut and the Maliko run are genuine bucket list for me. I have absolutely no desire to ever do the Doctor or Molokai. As you say, they are events for another discipline of paddling, and I'd rather stick needles in my eyeballs. I hope to see King of the Cut built up as the pre-eminent SUP event in this country. Looks like an absolute hoot, well run and heaps of fun.

It started at one point and ended at a different one, to me that makes it a point to point, not straight line point to point but nevertheless not a course race.

I agree that State > National > ISA seem to be tailoring towards different things so is there any logical progression? But having said that Nationals last year had slight down wind, in through surf and some flat water so provided conditions to test the best all round paddler.

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PTWoody said...

Ali Cat said...

BTW Bleachy, I'm pretty sure Mark is talking about the course for QLD State Titles (still nothing on Surfing QLD website though) so you can still hold onto a little bit of hope that Nationals could be different (though I'm not sure how likely that will be).

So we've seen the most recent NSW and Victorian State Titles distance races, and now the QLD event run over a circuit course rather than a pure open ocean downwinder. The ISA World Title distance race was also a circuit course on a lake. As Jacko mentions on this thread, world tour events seem to be leaning towards circuits and often on flat water. I think the writing is on the wall - event organisers don't want to run ocean downwinders.


















(PS. Feel free to red thumb, I won't take it personally as this is an observation of what's happening rather than an opinion of what should happen.)

your right unfortunately. the new world sup order will be flatwater because dw is too hard, very hard to get the conditions, when you do get good conditions insurance deems it was too risky.

half the paddling field aren't up to it but decide a race is a good place to start ocean paddling and number conscious organisers encourage them to paddle, then duty of care issues, safety boats per capita issue, restrictive council permits etc etc and the red tape just on and is getting bigger.

its just the way it is and so be it. plenty of people will be stoked on flatwater racing and its going to be big.


no for me tho

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laceys lane said...

your right unfortunately. the new world sup order will be flatwater because dw is too hard, very hard to get the conditions, when you do get good conditions insurance deems it was too risky.

half the paddling field aren't up to it but decide a race is a good place to start ocean paddling and number conscious organisers encourage them to paddle, then duty of care issues, safety boats per capita issue, restrictive council permits etc etc and the red tape just on and is getting bigger.

its just the way it is and so be it. plenty of people will be stoked on flatwater racing and its going to be big.


no for me tho

Yeah we had a downwind race down here early in the year and as the wind was starting to show some promise, we were horrified to learn the event insurance would not allow the race to go ahead if it got up above 20 knots. Luckily, for the organiser, the wind stayed just below 20 knots so the race went ahead. Unluckily for us, the wind didn't go above 20 knots, so while we got to race, it wasn't quite the mega downwinder we were hoping for.

As you know, I do like a flat water race and of course, I agree with you, it's going to be big. But I also love downwinding. Personally, if there's a choice, I'd prefer to race flat water, and downwind outside competition, where the course and the wind strength and swell direction are not compromised, and where the winner is the person who has the most fun. But then again, I'm the idiot at last year's nationals who paddled straight out to sea trying to find a downwind line all the way to Currumbin and ended up finishing stone motherless last.

If you look at what has happened with Surf Lifesaving it shows you Were SUP will go.. All last world Surf Lifesaving events held in flat water areas (Germany, Egypt, Adelaide and now France) this is due to sliding a larger number of people able to compete and grow the sport as well as safety.. DW is great but reality it rules a lot of people out and insurance for organisers... Start running Flat Water races and build the sport for mums, dads and kids... As had been mentioned DW are for fun or the serious racers... Let's build the sport so every person can be involved....

Hey Cam,

I like your point of view about a champion paddler being good in all aspects of paddling, but thats why we have different disciplines (which ironically are usually dominated by the same top guys). I think the BOP/technical race gives paddlers a chance to show their ability upwind/downwind, paddling through surf, riding waves and in some cases a bit of flat water too.

I just think that the (ocean) distance race should be downwind (or at least as much as conditions allowed). I love challenging myself physically and mentally, and have competed in all our local races and the last 2 national races which in most cases have been less than ideal, but you can't do much about the weather on the day. As long as the organisers have a good course layout and some back up plans, then people will make the effort to attend. I think if courses start to head the way that the recent ISA course was its almost like adventure racing... maybe that will be the next big thing in SUP . Or if organisers wanted to save some time and money they could just make us do 50 laps of the BOP course that should tick all the boxes. Hope I'm not sounding too negative.

Also congrats on your effort at the ISA's top effort!

Bleachy.

Just get out their and paddle. The rest will take care of its self

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teatrea said...
Just get out their and paddle. The rest will take care of its self

I have been following this thread from the start and have to say this is the best input I have read.

Get out there and paddle, that's why you bought the board and the paddle.

Well said TT.

ET.

Well with all due respect, I gotta disagree with Tea Tree and ET on this one. I try to get out and paddle almost everyday that weather permits. Surfing, downwind, flat water training even headwind I love every second of it.

But while our sport is still so young and I believe that we still have organisers who listen to the athletes (probably because we have no TV or big corporations paying them yet) So now is the time that we should try and have some input into how our events are run. Because if we leave it too late we will be fighting a losing battle. I'm more than happy to paddle without competition and just enjoy it but if I'm gonna pay to travel and compete then I would like the events to be well run and enjoyable.

Hi all

Just a quick message from Surfing Queensland to let you know that all comments have been taken in the right spirit and we as event organisers want the best possible outcome for everyone who wants to compete in what is a great event.

Comments regarding a straight point to point downwinders are only allowing for 1 distance to be paddled, which is not the case in the Immerse Festival. We want the Immerse to attract social paddlers and allow them to interact with the sports elite. Several reasons dictate why we want to retain the same finishing point for all competitors - safety, council regs by remaining in Qld waters and of course having all competitors together at the finish line.

The paddle course with the upwind from Burleigh is based off the 2013 Aust SUP Titles. The pathway in elite SUP is designed to test athletes, not necessarily ascertain the best downwind paddler. If you turn a can at Burleigh you are able to hug the coast back to the Alley and obviously race strategy and endurance in all conditions comes into play.

After consideration of other posts, Surfing Queensland have included additional divisions, namely: Open Men SUP Unlimited, Open Women SUP Unlimited, Over 40 Men SUP Unlimited & Over 40 Women SUP Unlimited.

Please find link to competitor document on the Surfing Queensland website - http://www.surfingqueensland.com/docs/2014%20immerse%20competitor%20doc.pdf

Surfing Queensland will also be making announcements regarding prizes and competitor packs in coming weeks.

Once again, thanks for your input guys as it assists Surfing Queensland in delivering the best possible paddle event. Please feel free to contact the office directly to discuss the event.

Their we go , Surf Aus are listening I was a bit of a critical of Surf Aus in the past and felt they only seen sup as a cash cow. But after thinking about it , the sport is so young and teething problems will occur. And like the old saying goes you cant please 100% of the people 100% of the time. The focus should always be on the grass roots and inclusivity , when the focus shifts mainly to the elite that's when the sport will die , happens to business and corporations and Government. The great thing about sup which I hope never changes is the average punter can line up against the best around if they want to. Tell me one other sport where this happens? Like the add says JUST PADDLE

Have just had a look at the event manual and I'm sure it is an oversight or typo as it appears on page 5 that the technical race is now a 14' board category?

Can anyone see this differently?

HV