Hi
I've always had a shortboard sup, nowadays 7'11" x 28'5" x 100 litres, for my 71 Kg. However, I've been going supping less and less because of my bad fit and crowds in the peaks. I've thought I could get a longboard sup to catch more soft waves in secondary peaks.

However, I know some big, heavy and wide longboards will seem to me dead on turning. I'm thinking in a 9' longboard, 110-115 litres, but I would like to know which other parameters I should take into account to get as much as possible an stable, early soft waves catcher and turny in small waves stepping at the tail. Not interested in waves bigger than 3 or 4 feet.

For example, which is the influence of the width, rocker, etc? Stability is much bigger of a 9'0 compared with a 7'11" having the same width?

Thks

9x28 will feel stable, fast, and easy compared to your short SUP, even if it's same volume. Id get one that is closer to 100L

Depends on how you want to surf it also.

If you want a nose rider style board:
Soft rails slow the board down, wide nose helps in nose riding as does straight rail line. Flat nose rocker and mid board. High tail flip helps pivot turn and line it up for another nose ride. Typical boards matching this type is Sunova Style, JL black and Blue.
This type of board is super fun, but you have to be committed to surfing it in the noseriding style - pivot turns, walking etc to really have fun on it. If you try and pump for speed and turn from the tail you'll hate it.

If you want an all rounder / higher performing longboard:
hard edges on back 3rd add speed, narrower nose aids surfability, more overall rocker through the board makes it feel looser, flatter tail helps get more drive from rear foot over the fins.
Typical boards matching this are Smik Hipster Longboard, Sunova Revolution, Infinity New Deal

As you basically say you are a shortboarder at heart (like me) I would say go for the higher performing longboard sup.

71kg only needs 90-110L board at most. a 28" wide longboard sup is so much more stable than a 28" wide shortboard sup; they are almost in different leagues.

The 9'0 x 27" Smik Hipster Longboard would be one of me recommendations (not the pin version), or the Sunova Revolution 9'0 x 28".
Both of these give a surf from the tail attitude, but with much more glide and trim than a shortboard sup. They are both super fun on big points or soft rollers - you can almost take them out in anything you'd likely sup on.

I'd fin the Sunova with Large Side fins and med centre fin. Thruster / Twin+trailer style. The Smik already comes as a Twin+1. Sometimes (like today) i'll just run a big 10" centre and glide for days. depends on your mood

Thank you so much, guys. What a detailed analysis Hoppo! Yes, you are right, I prefer much more turnning tight than nose riding. And what about the width influence? I know the wider the more stable, and I see you don't need so much width to get stability as a shortboard, but on the other hand how the width affects the glide and loose turning?

Apart from the overall width, a short tail width (wingers?) it's important, right?

It's all about what you're willing to compromise.

increased board width slows rail to rail - so it is always ideally best to go as narrow as standing on allows IMO.
Wider tails are looser than pin tails as they allow more skate (they sit higher on the water). Boxier tail rails also give more skate. Pin tails and round tails tend to smooth/draw out turns. Squash/square tails and swallow tails tend to let you snap the tail more. Straighter rail lines add speed, more curve slows the board down when not on rail. Banana (continual curve) rocker is looser/free'er than a 3 stage rocker. Single concave/Double/Vee/Spiral/flat etc all change how a board feels. It's about balancing all of these traits in a way that suits the boards intention. The best board designers really understand this - that's why they are the best.

FYI, a wide and very short board can also have lots of glide and be very loose. It's not just about length.

I like both the Hipster and the Revolution as they both have a hip in the outline to allow you to square off turns. The hipster gives a little more speed and snap but they are both great.

I wouldn't get too bogged down in the design differences between them (unless you're just trying to gain more design knowledge) - they both work very well. Just get whichever you can get cheaper - you'll be more than happy with either.

I own a regular Hipster and a custom Sunova longboard SUP, based off a Surf - but tweaked a lot. (rev's weren't released back when I bought it about 9 years ago). My next board will be a smaller version of that Surf - with a couple of little tweaks.

Off on a tangent. The Sunova Speed maybe an option too- I have a small one I haven't surfed much cause i can't really find a niche for it, but it does get into waves easy and kind of looks like a longboard w nose cut off. So could let you surf like you currently do in a more user friendly package.also if you end up on softer waves and want to pump and turn more shortboard style, flat rocker wide tail short SUPs are insanely fun. For me, they are stable but paddle slower than a pulled in short SUP. I use this type of SUP for typical longboard conditions and I use my longboard SUP for bigger days when it's soft, choppy, or requires more paddling-often my most fun sessions of the year.

I think hoppo gave good advice check out the Benoit carpenter vids on his starboard sup to see what is possible (but not for us). I have the new deal myself, coming from a shorter sup I have to remember to get back on the tail and move my feet more. Narrower will give better rail to rail and pumping but less stability big surprise. Having so much length stability to open up the sweet spot really helps. If your trying to beat the crowd going 28 width might open up more choppy or bad wave days, 27 would be more hi performance.

If you're about turning from the tail, you'll hate the swing weight of a 9' board. I'm 79 kg and use a JL Destroyer 7'7 for the intended use you're describing. That board would be plenty big for you. It turns great from the tail and you can trim it from the front third. I suspect its 29" width is vanity sizing, but that doesn't seem to slow it's rail to rail performance.

IMO The Speeed needs a steeper face to work. It doesn't turn at all from mid board. If the waves are on the fatter/softer end of the spectrum, as you step back to try and turn - the Speeed simply turns off the wave. The tail rocker and hip lose all drive without some push from the wave. It really needs some power in the wave to start to go. I've had 2 of them and it's what drove me to go to a longboard design for most of the waves I sup on.

A Destroyer doesn't really give anything different to what the OP already has. If looking at JL the Striker is easily a better choice.

I would say if not a longboard design a Sunova Skate is perfect. As is an infinity Escape Pod or JL Superfrank.. I've had a Skate before and it is truely made for the conditions described from the OP. It's a very underrated board on this forum. I guess the only drawback is boards like these put your takeoff in the same spot as shortboard surfers. At least with a longboard Sup you can be a little further out and have first choice for waves.

True, Destroyer is a bit redundant to OP's other board.

I am big Striker fan. OP should only consider the smallest one (8'5"x30"x4" (116L)).

What you want is:

- an ultralight board, so that turning from the rear stays nimble. My 9'0" weights 6.8kg with the pad.
(I hunted a 2nd hand Gong Zero made at a specific time where they were fragile but ultralight)

- a pulled-in nose, both for paddling speed and early wave entry, less wing weight, and not catching a rail in turns.
The Infinity new deal has such a nose

- a tail as big as possible (wide and thick), depending on the strength of your rear leg to push on it.
this way you can take off of the smallest of bumps.
Gong "Moblog" was such a concept: a longboard SUP with the powerful tail of a small wave fish (The Gong Mob: hence Mob + Log = Moblog).
www.gong-galaxy.com/blogs/magazine/gear-surfoil-allvator-availability-9309
I had one, but I wasn't powerful enough in my rear leg to really master it, and I have the paddling stamina and technique to manage short SUPs anyways.
But as you can see, Gong has discontinued it, and not a lot of boards have this shape because it is
quite specialized, most shapers now use a pulled-in tail for control when waves are not tiny.
I guess rear foot surfers tend more to the short & fat solution, such as the Infinity Escape Pod, Gong Mob, etc...

Hi, Thanks all. I'm not considering short boards with big tails. I had a similar one and didn't like. But I didn't know the big tail would help me to catch soft waves. I was focused in big noses for stability and small tails to turn tighter. Maybe I was wrong. In fact most of the longboards I've checked follow this criteria.

Colas what about gong NFA pro 9'0XS or Zero 9'0? The NFA is narrower more maneouvrable and less stable according to gong's web. I have fear of the weight even adding the 500 gr of the pad to the official chart.

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Hoppo3228 said..
It's all about what you're willing to compromise.

increased board width slows rail to rail - so it is always ideally best to go as narrow as standing on allows IMO.
Wider tails are looser than pin tails as they allow more skate (they sit higher on the water). Boxier tail rails also give more skate. Pin tails and round tails tend to smooth/draw out turns. Squash/square tails and swallow tails tend to let you snap the tail more. Straighter rail lines add speed, more curve slows the board down when not on rail. Banana (continual curve) rocker is looser/free'er than a 3 stage rocker. Single concave/Double/Vee/Spiral/flat etc all change how a board feels. It's about balancing all of these traits in a way that suits the boards intention. The best board designers really understand this - that's why they are the best.

FYI, a wide and very short board can also have lots of glide and be very loose. It's not just about length.

I like both the Hipster and the Revolution as they both have a hip in the outline to allow you to square off turns. The hipster gives a little more speed and snap but they are both great.

I wouldn't get too bogged down in the design differences between them (unless you're just trying to gain more design knowledge) - they both work very well. Just get whichever you can get cheaper - you'll be more than happy with either.

I own a regular Hipster and a custom Sunova longboard SUP, based off a Surf - but tweaked a lot. (rev's weren't released back when I bought it about 9 years ago). My next board will be a smaller version of that Surf - with a couple of little tweaks.

Hello Hoppo. More interesting info to analyze. I've found a second hand former version smik hipster 9'2 x 28, 120 l. Did you try it? How about stability in choppy conditions? As it's an smik the rest of the parameters (glide, turn) will be fine

The first version of the Hipster is the one i'm recommending (with the swallow tail). Not the pin version. The 9'2 sounds like the right board design

I have the standard 'shortboard' shape one. I know others who have the longboard one.

Here's another board that would be about perfect for you:
www.seabreeze.com.au/Classifieds/Stand-Up-Paddle-Surfing-and-Cruising-Boards/~mhhed/2022-SMIK-Twinny-Longboard-90-9-0-27-inches.aspx?_page=1&search=1iqlDeuEK688A4tfQcb3p945bXonR68n

Here's a pic of me just catching a wave at Point addis at about 110kg riding my 28.5" wide custom. I'm also on it in my avatar pic (at Bells).

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Sideshore said..
Colas what about gong NFA pro 9'0XS or Zero 9'0? The NFA is narrower more maneouvrable and less stable according to gong's web. I have fear of the weight even adding the 500 gr of the pad to the official chart.

The NFA is a cooler, a bit more more tolerant shape. The XS would have a bit less stability due to its narrowness, but you will get a bit more paddling speed.

The Zero is more responsive, and suits a more "performance" ride, but may feel a bit "dead" if you just cruise it from the middle.

Note that In 2022, the Zero has evolved a bit to make it more user friendly (more nose rocker), so the difference now between the NFA and the Zero is less pronounced.

To give you an idea, in weak waves with my NFA I could just move about the board and have fun styling without worries. With my Zero I can generate more speed with more control in steep parts of the wave to crank more radical turns, push the envelope.

Note that the pad being on the mid+rear of the board, it does not contribute to the swing weight.

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colas said..

Sideshore said..
Colas what about gong NFA pro 9'0XS or Zero 9'0? The NFA is narrower more maneouvrable and less stable according to gong's web. I have fear of the weight even adding the 500 gr of the pad to the official chart.

The NFA is a cooler, a bit more more tolerant shape. The XS would have a bit less stability due to its narrowness, but you will get a bit more paddling speed.

The Zero is more responsive, and suits a more "performance" ride, but may feel a bit "dead" if you just cruise it from the middle.

Note that In 2022, the Zero has evolved a bit to make it more user friendly (more nose rocker), so the difference now between the NFA and the Zero is less pronounced.

To give you an idea, in weak waves with my NFA I could just move about the board and have fun styling without worries. With my Zero I can generate more speed with more control in steep parts of the wave to crank more radical turns, push the envelope.

Note that the pad being on the mid+rear of the board, it does not contribute to the swing weight.

Thanks Colas. I have a board quite similar to Karmen 7'11", which I also know. Is there so much difference in catching early soft waves between NFA 9 Xs and Karmen 7'11"? I want to catch more waves in non crowded peaks

@sideshore, you're basically the same weight and shortboard dims that I'd normally ride and I also just got my first longboard sup (see my 'what is this Sunova post') in the review section.

I honestly thought I'd need something at least 110l and 28" wide, but ended up with 94l and 26.5" wide and it's more stable and paddles faster than my shortboard! I also looked at that first gen 9'2 x 28 hipster LB at 120l, but glad I didn't in hindsight, probably too much board.

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thegreatsup said..
@sideshore, you're basically the same weight and shortboard dims that I'd normally ride and I also just got my first longboard sup (see my 'what is this Sunova post') in the review section.

I honestly thought I'd need something at least 110l and 28" wide, but ended up with 94l and 26.5" wide and it's more stable and paddles faster than my shortboard! I also looked at that first gen 9'2 x 28 hipster LB at 120l, but glad I didn't in hindsight, probably too much board.

Thanks greatsup. And even with that small longboard you catch many more soft waves than with your former shortboard?

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Sideshore said..
Thanks Colas. I have a board quite similar to Karmen 7'11", which I also know. Is there so much difference in catching early soft waves between NFA 9 Xs and Karmen 7'11"? I want to catch more waves in non crowded peaks

There is definitively a difference, mostly due to the rocker: my karmen 7'11" does not take off as early as my Mob 7'6", mainly because of the difference in rocker.

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colas said..

Sideshore said..
Thanks Colas. I have a board quite similar to Karmen 7'11", which I also know. Is there so much difference in catching early soft waves between NFA 9 Xs and Karmen 7'11"? I want to catch more waves in non crowded peaks

There is definitively a difference, mostly due to the rocker: my karmen 7'11" does not take off as early as my Mob 7'6", mainly because of the difference in rocker.

And comparing take off of a Karmen 7'11" with the one of NFA 9'0 xs? The difference is huge?

The main difference is paddling speed assuming you are stable and a decent paddler you should be able to follow a slower unbroken wave quite a ways just by paddling alone. I've used my longboard to catch waves when I was at least 30 ft too far out just by staying with the wave by paddling. This can be annoying to surfers though ?? The longer the long board the earlier and weaker the wave you should be able to ride.

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slsurf said..
The main difference is paddling speed assuming you are stable and a decent paddler you should be able to follow a slower unbroken wave quite a ways just by paddling alone. I've used my longboard to catch waves when I was at least 30 ft too far out just by staying with the wave by paddling. This can be annoying to surfers though ?? The longer the long board the earlier and weaker the wave you should be able to ride.

+1

Note however, that for this you must move on the board while paddling for takeoff to keep the nose close to the water.
I see too many people paddling for takeoff but staying feet parallel in the center, and the nose rears up and they do not profit from the longer boards.

And yes, do not do this with prone surfers around, it will piss them off.
But it is a great way to have fun on peaks with weak sections that prone surfers avoid.

I scored a super clean hardly used 9-6 Laird "hybrid surfer" last Summer and I highly recommend it. I used to have the wide nose "surfer" model and really like it too, but I am not into cross stepping so I preferred this one with it's more drawn in nose. It's super fast and turns really well. My normal go to is a self designed 7-10 x 29 x 114 L, but this Laird has such a clean beautiful classic outline with thin rails and tail so it can be surfed in almost anything. In future versions, I'm going to add a little bit of flip tip in the nose and glass it myself, which will probably save about 4 pounds. I also plan to add more boxes so I can ride it as a thruster, single fin, 2+1, or twinzer.

P.S. I am looking for someone in the Southern California area that can manually scan this board into Shape 3DX or laser scan it. If you know anyone then please let me know. Thank you.

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magentawave said..
I scored a super clean hardly used 9-6 Laird "hybrid surfer" last Summer and I highly recommend it. I used to have the wide nose "surfer" model and really like it too, but I am not into cross stepping so I preferred this one with it's more drawn in nose. It's super fast and turns really well. My normal go to is a self designed 7-10 x 29 x 114 L, but this Laird has such a clean beautiful classic outline with thin rails and tail so it can be surfed in almost anything. In future versions, I'm going to add a little bit of flip tip in the nose and glass it myself, which will probably save about 4 pounds. I also plan to add more boxes so I can ride it as a thruster, single fin, 2+1, or twinzer.

P.S. I am looking for someone in the Southern California area that can manually scan this board into Shape 3DX or laser scan it. If you know anyone then please let me know. Thank you.

Kami on this forum can pretty much work out anything on 3DX. He's in France, but that wasn't an issue for me when we chatted...

Hi Hoppo and Colas
Colas, you've given me plenty of advice in the past.
I contacted Gong to try get a 9 ft Zero but none available at present.
Im thinking 9 ft about 120 liters.
There is a 10 ft Naish Nalu second hand available. It is 130 liters so a bit bigger than I was thinking and 28.5 wide.
Mu concern is if it is just way too big for me.
70 kg and mainly use a 8.2 Speeed or 8.3 Sunova Style.
I'm wanting to get into long boarding and there is a local break that is just too slow for both above boards.
Would the Naish just be too big. There aren't many options in South Africa.
thanks
tanna

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tannaman said..
I'm wanting to get into long boarding and there is a local break that is just too slow for both above boards.
Would the Naish just be too big.

Too big is not a problem for slow and weak waves. Especially since it is not too wide, it should still be fun.
And 10' is nice to have a true longboard feel and not double with your existing boards.

Thanks Colas. You are very generous with your input.
tanna

10' is fine for small stuff, just get the width and volume right.
I would add, at 70kg - 9ft would still feel properly like a longboard imo.

One of my surfing buddies has the Sunova Style 9'6. He's about 75kg I think. Awesome board if you like traditonal noseriding etc. That and the JL black and blue are the pick for log style surfing.

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Kisutch said..
Off on a tangent. The Sunova Speed maybe an option too- I have a small one I haven't surfed much cause i can't really find a niche for it, but it does get into waves easy and kind of looks like a longboard w nose cut off. So could let you surf like you currently do in a more user friendly package.also if you end up on softer waves and want to pump and turn more shortboard style, flat rocker wide tail short SUPs are insanely fun. For me, they are stable but paddle slower than a pulled in short SUP. I use this type of SUP for typical longboard conditions and I use my longboard SUP for bigger days when it's soft, choppy, or requires more paddling-often my most fun sessions of the year.

Still reckon these are the best boards for the average intermediate . Not supping much these days but when I do generally use the 711 Speeed when I want a smaller board or the 88 Speeed for cruiser fatter waves.

Another outside the box option could be the Shroom or the Skate as mentioned above if you want to stick with a short board