So I've been paddling for a few years now. Started out on a 9'2, no idea how much volume but it was enormous
Sized down to a 7'8x28x4.75 that I think was around 130L, felt way too big
Currently on a 7'10x32x4.5 that is 125L (smallest I could find around here when I needed a new board)

The 125L board still feels huge to me and very floaty. I fluctuate between about 65-70kgs depending on time of the season, when the muscle starts to fade away and I get skinny again

I just found a good deal on a 7'0x26x4 @ 83L (kids model lol), or a 7'2x28x4 @ 92L that look so tempting... according to the volume calc, at 70 kg this board would still put me above water.

So I'm trying to figure out pretty much just by math alone whether something this size would still float me enough that it's still fun and easy enough to paddle into waves. I don't want one of those super high-performance boards that will be underwater unless I'm moving, and the waves here are hard enough to get into that I still need a little volume to get moving. The waves I'm surfing are fast beach break -- i.e. steep drop into a quick turn and down the line before getting slammed on the sandbar. so the shorter board the better.

What does seabreeze think? Unfortunately the only boards carried in stores around here are the boring recreational kind so I can't demo anything.

I really enjoy the challenge of small performance boards (aside from the performance aspect & the fact they're more manoeuvrable in beach breaks, balancing on them helps strengthen my core for my lower back which otherwise gives me grief) although, I also love jumping back on longer/higher volume boards for those cruizy/longboard sessions.

The sacrifice with smaller boards (aside from the obvious stability issue) is the lack of glide or amount of effort it takes to get the board up & planing e.g. my 8'2 Speeed catches waves & maintains it's momentum better vs my 7'8 Speeed but, my 7'8 Speeed is sooo much fun on a wave

As with you, it's sometimes near impossible to demo boards before buying them in NZ so my biggest mistake starting out (after my 1st couple of 'learner' boards) was ordering boards with too much volume. That being said, it's still been a good (all-be-it costly) learning curve. I've now reached a point where I know what my cut-off is however, volume numbers alone can be very misleading e.g.

- profile (volume in the nose & tail) / rail shape / rocker / width & length all make a big difference e.g. my 9'1 longboard (96L) feels way more stable vs my 8'11 performance board (103l) despite them being a similar width & the length
- it varies from brand to brand e.g. a 90L board from brand X may feel more or less stable vs a 90L board from brand Y despite them having a similar profile

I weigh 78-82kg & paddle most days & I find that:

- 1:1 (80L) is too much like hard work (leave that for the pros)
- 1:1.10 (90L) is doable but mainly for clean conditions (takes a bit of perseverance)
- 1:1.20 (100L) is about right
- 1:1.30 (110L) is pretty comfy

These ratios obviously vary from person-to-person depending on your local conditions (it's pretty calm where I surf) / age / how often you get out / basic balance skills / experience & technique (standing with a staggered stance with feet close together / using a shorter paddle / bending your knees & getting your weight forward at take-off....see some of Colas's threads) etc.

There definitely is a sweet spot where the rails are submerged (this eliminates the 'corky' effect & actually aids stability) but your ankles aren't getting wet (where the board then becomes a slow paddler so you have to sit a little closer to the action & risk taking a few on the head)

Going too small can also take all the fun out of your sessions (you feel like a complete kook + your wave count takes a severe hit) & at the end of the day, it's all about having fun which generally means matching a board to the local conditions & your skill level.

Finally, I've found that it's harder to sell smaller volume boards because they exclude the mass market i.e. it's probably prudent to build in a bit of a buffer if you're unsure. I hope that helps...good luck with it

Yer right on there with the ratios i reckon SUPBro...

Im 93kgs and have been trying to get too the lowest volume i can and having a real **** fight with it .. Boards really do change a lot between brands .. Im on the sunova flow 8.7 Atm and its 120L and i can dance on it .. Soon as i go the next step (eg Jp surf 8.6 Starry pro 8.5) its like twice the amount of work .. But i want the mad responsive feeling .. Its a bitch really .. Either Got to just deal with falling in and looking like a kook and missing some waves or surf something that just doesn't wanna go vertical as easy ..

I did demo a smik 8.3 the other day tho that wasnt really tippy but was sinking the nose and tail a bit .. Im thinking of having a crack at that ... 110L so ratio of - 1:1.2 i think ./. Maybe after a couple of months i shouldn't be loosing too making waves... Not sure its hard looking for a good short board tho

Yer right on there with the ratios i reckon SUPBro...

Im 93kgs and have been trying to get too the lowest volume i can and having a real **** fight with it .. Boards really do change a lot between brands .. Im on the sunova flow 8.7 Atm and its 120L and i can dance on it .. Soon as i go the next step (eg Jp surf 8.6 Starry pro 8.5) its like twice the amount of work .. But i want the mad responsive feeling .. Its a bitch really .. Either Got to just deal with falling in and looking like a kook and missing some waves or surf something that just doesn't wanna go vertical as easy ..

I did demo a smik 8.3 the other day tho that wasnt really tippy but was sinking the nose and tail a bit .. Im thinking of having a crack at that ... 110L so ratio of - 1:1.2 i think ./. Maybe after a couple of months i shouldn't be loosing too making waves... Not sure its hard looking for a good short board tho

Glad to hear you're showing some dogged determination there MC...for me the:

- 7'10 Acid (81L) was a step too far (I kinda figured that would be the case but I needed to prove it to myself...what a fool...if any Breezer's are after 1....pls PM me)

- 7'8 Speeed (87L) is on the cusp (I think mainly because it's so narrow) but it will make me think twice about eating too many pies

- 8'1 Acid (89L) is my pick of the bunch providing there isn't a lot of water movement (I recently demo'd the 7'7 SB Pro @ 90L which was awesome but I found the 8'1 Acid to be slightly more stable....probably because I'm use to it now)

Throw some chop & wind into the equation & I'm scratching around for some more volume underfoot.

I'm already dreading the day I can no longer ride these low'ish volume boards so I'm trying to cash in while I can...the B-Line & SMIK look mighty tasty

The physics is: add all the weights: yours + the board, paddle, wetsuit. This figure in kg will give you (roughly) the minimal volume for you to float without paddling. In practice, the board will have a bit more flotation because of the computing approximations of the manufacturer, the flotation of the pad, and the fact that salt water floats things more (by 2.5%) than the pure water where 1 liter would float 1kg.

So for your 70kg, it means you will need a board around 80/85 liters to barely float with a wetsuit on.

Then, you must take into account the shape:
- with a pointed nose, heavily rockered short shape, you will have to paddle with the nose significantly out of the water, otherwise you will nosedive when paddling, and catch a front rail. So you need added volume since some will be "lost" in the nose. For me it a around 10 liters more for a pointed nose shape. For you, a 90/95 liters board.
- narrow boards are nice one the waves because they are very quick on rail-to-rail. But they are also quick to roll under you while paddling, so the narrower the board, the better reflexes you must have. This means that you should go wider with age.
- wide extremities help a lot, both in stability and taking off early even with ultra-low volume boards. In my experience, the most important factor is the nose: width there helps immensely.
- longer boards are much easier, as you only have to focus on the lateral balance
- Even though some pro riders (Zane, Mo, ...) ride boards with 10 liters less than your weight (it would mean 60 liters for you), a lot of them, like Keahi, use now barely floating boards (their weight + 12 liters). So no need to go lower than that for us non-competitors I guess.

So, for "a 7'0x26x4 @ 83L (kids model lol), or a 7'2x28x4 @ 92L" I think the kids model would be OK if a "Tomo" shape, and the other one OK if a pointed-nose one.

Me, at 100kg and 56 years, I have the same stability on:
a 105 liters "semi-tomo" Mob http://gongsupshop.com/epages/box1707.sf/en_GB/?ViewObjectPath=%2FShops%2Fbox1707%2FProducts%2FGON7SUPMOBSPPRO76
a 115 liters pointed nose model gongsupshop.com/epages/box1707.sf/en_GB/?ViewObjectPath=%2FShops%2Fbox1707%2FProducts%2FGON7SUPCURVE711PRO (last year model had 115 liters volume)
a 110 liters hybrid (Tomo front) - well, I have the 105 liters model but it would need 5 liters more to be as stable as the 105 l "Mob" for me -gongsupshop.com/epages/box1707.sf/en_GB/?ViewObjectPath=%2FShops%2Fbox1707%2FProducts%2FGON7SUPFATPRO73 I got the 120 liters model first, but it has too much volume for me when waves are more than head-high.
I am quite found of this last shape. Its wide nose makes it rideable in small waves, and allows to have a very low volume for handling the powerful days. But the nose is not wide enough as to become cumbersome in turns, plus the straightened outline in the nose adds stability at speed since you can use all the rail in turns.

But whatever the shape, low volume boards are definitely more tiring, and paddle slower.

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Hey Dyyylan
SUPbru's been the man for helping me find the right board... his advice has always been spot on for my ability and waves I ride..I have purchased two boards based on what he thought would suit me and have been super stoked.
I now ride my new 8'7 Acid 106L as my go to board and I'm 95kgs dry. I do have the 8'5 Speeed and 7'8 minion in my quiver too...but the acid is such a wave weapon that I haven't jumped back on my other boards yet. You do compromise some glide and expend a bit of energy out the back but on the wave it's mint...it does take some time getting use to low volume boards but worth the effort imo.
Chur

Here you go this would be perfect....I'm 80kg & it floats me & I use it for comps but I'm not on it enough to enjoy it as my everyday board because I have too many boards choose from..I'm selling my demo JL Super Tech 7'10"x27.5"x3.65" (94L)...
Surfs like a shortboard but paddles well...message me if interested...rail tape & great condition....

Thats mad skills supmaori...

So u guys reckon even with the low litre board as long as u stay say 15L above your weight you will eventually get used too it and paddle it easy ?

So at 93 plus wettie i should easily be able too paddle the smik 8.3 111L fairly easy /?

120L is a piece of cake even on a traditional shape .. But gee the 110 litre boards surf SOO much better .. 120 too 130 i could barley tell the diff .. Going the extra 10 down tho changes everything ..

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MickChard said..
So at 93 plus wettie i should easily be able too paddle the smik 8.3 111L fairly easy /?

I never tried the smik, but from the pics at www.smiksup.com/spitfire-performance the 8'3" seems to have a somewhat full nose, so it should be OK for you. I would not go as far assaying it will be "fairly easy" for your first session on it, but it can definitely become comfortable with some practice.

On the quest of the lower volume, the progression project blog is quite interesting: (he calls it the "race to the bottom")
e.g:
twitter.com/erik_antonson
progressionproject.com/dropping-volume-better-have-some-solid-processes/

but all the articles are worth reading:
progressionproject.com/progression-journal-session-notes-tutorials-field-tests/

Bro..I'd be the first to admit it's not easy...takes time to dial it in and get use to different characteristics of low volume board, to get confident on it in busy line up...but it is so worth it in the long run. My biggest problem initially was pearling at take off.. especially given that you have to be right in the cruical part of the Wave more with a performance, low volume board- less time/ tolerance for mistakes. On occasions when conditions were choppy & would've suited my Speeed better I still took out the acid. It was a challenge & I missed some waves I would have otherwise got but pleased I stuck with it. I'm still learning with each session how to get the most out of it and improve my level.of performance. But like SUPbru helped me -hope this is helpful to you
Chur and good luck with your new stoke on whatever board you get

Hi Dyyylan. I'm currently riding the 7'10 Acid (80ltr) and weigh about 69 kgs. I must admit it was hard work for the first couple of surfs but after a half dozen surfs I felt reasonably comfortable although every surf I will still fall off for no reason haha. I pretty much have to paddle all the time although I can stand there but it requires more concentration. I surf it most conditions even up to 15 knots onshore. It is hard work to paddle but the rewards are worth it!! It turns almost as good as my short board is awesome for late drops and if you pump it u can get awesome speed. If your willing to put in the effort its well worth it. Hope that helps u out.

I recently dropped some kg's to 90 kg and my 8'7 (106L) feels great - if it is good conditions. I am just coming home from a surf trip and could ride it about 50% of the time. The rest of the time I used the 9'1 Acid (126L) but in many cases could have used the 8'10 Acid (116 L) but didn't take it.

The biggest learning point for me when I moved from Flows and Speeeds to the Acids is that because the Acids are thinner and have low rails it made them more stable when comparing volume. And I had a TON of fun on my 8'7 Acid; absolutely loved it!

Hey dyyylan,

Am ancient at 69, but am a skinny olde fahrte around 70 kegs.

My lowest liter board is a custom King's at 104. Wider at 30.7" than most which I still need, thinner at 3 11/16 than many, and 8'4".

Still challenging in ordinary motion in the ocean days, but sooo much more responsive. I usually ride it as a twinnie with the trailer.

Next one up is an 8'4" x 31" x 4.25" x 115 that is two years old. Ride it in the winter with heavy rubber now.

When I got it it seemed hot hot hot, and now stable and relaxing.

I am sure you will get a board that is challenging and fun.

And soon it will be the daily driver as you progress!!!!

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cbigsup said..

When I got it it seemed hot hot hot, and now stable and relaxing.

I am sure you will get a board that is challenging and fun.

Hah, yeah that's how I felt when I got the 7'10... this board will be short and fun! Most of the time waiting for a wave now I have the paddle on top of the board like a windsurfing mast, so I have something to lean against and relax. I guess that's a good sign it's time for something more high performance