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paddle flex

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Created by kelvinpumba > 9 months ago, 19 Aug 2014
kelvinpumba
25 posts
19 Aug 2014 5:41AM
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Hi
I recently brought new paddle a 40% carbon and it seams to flex a bit. Not sure if I prefer as my red one barely has any.
Do people find flex good
Cheers

Area10
1508 posts
19 Aug 2014 5:56AM
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Flex isn't inherently good or bad, it's just another characteristic to play with, like blade size and shape, shaft length and shape etc. A flexy shaft can allow you to go with a bigger blade because it reduces "catch shock". In other words, it is kinder to the body. It is also good for very long distance paddling, and can work well for slower cadence, long stroke paddlers. But if you need a very immediate catch such as if you are sprinting or want maximum bump-catching potential when downwinding, then a stiff shaft is better (no sniggering at the back, please).

DavidJohn
VIC, 17569 posts
19 Aug 2014 9:58AM
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IMO there's nothing worse than trying to paddle really hard with a paddle that has too much shaft flex..

Some flex is good.. I tend to prefer a stiffer shaft with a smaller blade but I guess it's a personal thing and what you're used to..

Also.. some paddles flex with a springy feel.. and others just bend.

Sailhack
VIC, 5000 posts
19 Aug 2014 11:19AM
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It depends on your board and what you're SUP'ing (flatwater, DW'ing, big surf, small surf etc.)

I have 2 paddles, and they are suited perfectly for my 2 very different boards.

1. Adjustable soft flex composite shaft with a large blade size. This one flexes a lot, which is perfect for my 11'4" on flatwater, small surf & the occasional gentle DW. The soft flex doesn't cause me any muscle soreness and allows me to use the large blade with the big board to catch waves without paddling like a madman, even on small fat waves (<2ft). I often have friends commenting on how much the shaft flexes, although whilst I'm paddling I don't notice it.

2. Fixed, full carbon hard flex with a small blade. This one is my 'surf' paddle and I use it mainly on my 9'10" custom Stonker for paddling on to larger waves. If used for long periods of time, it does cause some shoulder & back soreness, but I put that down to my (lack of) fitness level. The small blade allows me to paddle like crazy to catch a wave without losing power.

colas
5370 posts
19 Aug 2014 3:46PM
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Some flex is really good for your joints.
I have now a slightly softer carbon shaft (but stiiff enough for a positive leverage when laying on it in turns), and my arms/shoulders are as fresh as new after a 5 hours surfing session.

Basically, go as stiff as you can while it doesn't hurt (there must some double entendre in there :-) )

Stev0
422 posts
19 Aug 2014 8:27PM
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I asked top racer Annabel Anderson if she liked a stiff shaft or a more flexy one?…legit question…she likes a stiff one for racing.

I'm keen on the new Naish Wave LE as that is a softer flex paddle which feels like (in the shop) that you could lean harder into it bottom turning to load up the rails and fins. Easier on the shoulder joints and possibly better for wave riding.

I've tried some paddles that are so stiff they feel like I am using a spade and my rotator cuffs start to protest. For flat water on the 12'6 I use a custom ASP paddle which has an easy going flex and feels like I get the power without the shock in the shoulders.

yugi
85 posts
19 Aug 2014 8:59PM
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^^^ awesome!
StevO, did she whack you in the nuts for asking her that and did you go: "Dooooooooh! Why do I have to be StevO"?



It's not just flex but its snap back characteristic. I like a flex that has a nice snappy <<<boingggg>>> back.

I don't believe one should assume that paddle shaft flex consumes energy. As the shaft bounces back the energy is returned. This should be an added bonus since the energy is returned at a point where the stroke has less power/leverage from the rider.

I assume, like a windsurfer mast, that the more carbon the snappier the return. Then, I guess, there is layups, quality, diameter etc etc as variables.

It's similar to the Bicycle frame flex debate (common dogma being that stiff is faster). Here's a long rant from Keith Bontrager on bicycle frame and crank stiffness and the "Sean Kelly Paradox" [Sean Kelly won sprints on a flex frame]:
www.compint.com/stinkingweasels/BontragerRants/stiffness.htm

tightlines
WA, 3504 posts
20 Aug 2014 12:18AM
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I can't believe there has been so many posts and so few brand names mentioned.

I use to use a brand x paddle that had a very stiff shaft and a fairly large blade, I thought it was great at the time but I ended up with big shoulder issues till it got to the stage I could hardly paddle.

I switched to brand y which although had much more flex is still a lot stiffer than some, for me it is perfect, enough flex to take all of the strain out of the shoulders /elbows etc and seems to load up and give you a little push forward at the end of the stroke.

A bit of flex is great, to much is horrible, you have to find what works for you and what you want out of a paddle..

kelvinpumba
25 posts
20 Aug 2014 12:47AM
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Hi cheers for replying. I think I will see which I prefer.
The flexible paddle is lokahi, any one use

Stev0
422 posts
20 Aug 2014 7:18AM
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Select to expand quote
tightlines said..
I can't believe there has been so many posts and so few brand names mentioned.


Well paddles are really personal and like fitting a wetsuit or harness. I have demoed the following brands top of the range paddles for racing: Quick Blade, Kiaola, Naish, ASP, ZRE, Starboard. I really liked the ASP and ZRE paddles as they seemed the most comfortable to use in terms of flex, weight, shaft grip/shape. Not sure if go any faster with the ASP paddle I have but it doesn't burn out my shoulders and rotator cuff like the Quickblade.



Select to expand quote


yugi said..
^^^ awesome!
StevO, did she whack you in the nuts for asking her that and did you go: "Dooooooooh! Why do I have to be StevO"?





Classic! In context, I asked Annabel the question at a racing paddle technique clinic that she was doing and as top racer if she had a flex preference. She uses the ZRE paddles with the stiff shaft option.

For SUP surfing I am trending to softer flex like the Naish Wave LE which is getting some good reviews: www.standuppaddling.it/2-non-categorizzato/2751-naish-wave-le-the-paddle-r-evolution.html

RRK
61 posts
23 Aug 2014 6:51AM
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Select to expand quote
yugi said..
^^^ awesome!
StevO, did she whack you in the nuts for asking her that and did you go: "Dooooooooh! Why do I have to be StevO"?



It's not just flex but its snap back characteristic. I like a flex that has a nice snappy <<<boingggg>>> back.

I don't believe one should assume that paddle shaft flex consumes energy. As the shaft bounces back the energy is returned. This should be an added bonus since the energy is returned at a point where the stroke has less power/leverage from the rider.

I assume, like a windsurfer mast, that the more carbon the snappier the return. Then, I guess, there is layups, quality, diameter etc etc as variables.

It's similar to the Bicycle frame flex debate (common dogma being that stiff is faster). Here's a long rant from Keith Bontrager on bicycle frame and crank stiffness and the "Sean Kelly Paradox" [Sean Kelly won sprints on a flex frame]:
www.compint.com/stinkingweasels/BontragerRants/stiffness.htm



Select to expand quote
kelvinpumba said..
Hi cheers for replying. I think I will see which I prefer.
The flexible paddle is lokahi, any one use




Select to expand quote
kelvinpumba said..
Hi cheers for replying. I think I will see which I prefer.
The flexible paddle is lokahi, any one use



Hi Guys, I see a lot of relation being made between flex and shoulder issues. Never gave that much thought before... I am still at the "cutting stage" to determine the length I prefer and find that the shorter I go, the less muscle pain I have after a session. so yugi, did you keep the new paddle at the exact same length as before?? I feel that the last few "cuts' have made a big difference although I only took 2cm off each time.

Stev0
422 posts
23 Aug 2014 9:05AM
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Select to expand quote
Hi Guys, I see a lot of relation being made between flex and shoulder issues. Never gave that much thought before... I am still at the "cutting stage" to determine the length I prefer and find that the shorter I go, the less muscle pain I have after a session. so yugi, did you keep the new paddle at the exact same length as before?? I feel that the last few "cuts' have made a big difference although I only took 2cm off each time.


If you are surfing then a short paddle makes a huge difference in terms of performance on a wave. For flat water you need a slightly longer paddle as you are often on a 12'6 or similar and higher out of the water. If you do both then need to find a happy medium.

The interesting thing is when I did a race paddling clinic with Annabel, she literally got out a hack saw and chopped everyones paddle down - 15 carbon paddles got chopped that day! She cut the paddles down to the bottom of your wrist i.e that is where she would cut and then you put the handle back on. In some cases she chopped 4-6+" off a paddle. This makes sense from a bio-mechanical perspective. The shorter paddles for racing allow a faster cadence but requires technique and is harder on the lower back. The interesting thing is that my race paddle got cut to where my surfing paddle used to be and now I've cut my surf paddle down to head height. Getting the length right is vital then the issue of flex comes in...

yugi
85 posts
25 Aug 2014 6:36PM
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(at Gorge Paddle Challenge)

Now I'm impressed, knowing that's the stiff shaft. Also obvious why she needs the stiffer one.

DavidJohn
VIC, 17569 posts
25 Aug 2014 10:35PM
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Select to expand quote
yugi said..


(at Gorge Paddle Challenge)

Now I'm impressed, knowing that's the stiff shaft. Also obvious why she needs the stiffer one.



Good to see her hand on top for a change..



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"paddle flex" started by kelvinpumba