hey guys

in your opinion for a 92/95 kgs fella looking for a performance board ( i dont want to go below 120 liters ) so most of the boards will be over 30'' wide! but im worried that at that width you cant really shred it...the thing is all major sup makers once we reach a certain volume for really heavy guys or not so skilled have to go wide, the flow 8.10x31 from sunova, the smik spitfire 8.8x31.5, the b-line infinity 8.8x31 etc just to name few but you got the idea..

so how do you shred board over 30'' wide? good skill ? but if you have good skills i guess you woudnt be riding a 31'' wide board ! you stick to a narrower board but with more thickness to compensate for the volume? but then you lose the nice thin rails that are integral to the performance mix !
most of the pics and video we see on internet/forum are from the smaller performance models 7'2 to 8.'2 size approx, but you dont see a lot of shreding made with the larger models.

so can you still call a large board over 30 wide a performance board or you have to challenge yoursel to below 120 ltrs volume board to thrully feel the performance side of a sup surf board?

just interested by all fellow sup riders experience;

cheers

I personally like the feeling of narrower boards however at the risk of stating the obvious, the main sacrifice is a loss of stability.

If a deck is rolled/domed, it's still possible to pack a fair bit of volume into a board while keeping the rails refined...something I'm a sucker for.

Options you could consider (I'm sure there are many other examples) include boards like the:

- 8'8 x 28 1/2 x 123L Speeed (even with a stub nose, I'd still classify this as a performance shape because it handles most conditions well)

- 9'1 x 29 x 126L Dogman

- 9'5 x 28 1/8 x 119L Insane which will give you heaps of glide into waves & performance to burn on a wave but, it's a fair bit of length in conditions like punchy beach breaks + it's not the worlds most stable shape

- a custom

That being said, I still think it's possible to shred on the boards you mention however, the definition of shred is relative i.e. they are never going to be as agile vs a sub-85L board which all the pro's seem to ride + the pro's clearly have superior skills so they make any board look good....including >30" wide boards

I was talking with Caio Vaz recently (we ran a SUP clinic with him in Porto) and he told me that his performance went boom when he changed from a 27'' wide board to a 26''. But he also said that he would be a much happier man if he surfed a 27'' wide board

I reckon go with what your happy riding ,i have a few very small boards in my shed that collect dust .

have you looked at the 8'11 maddog .130 litres .
8.6 tabou .125
8,6 smik twin .
i currently ride a 120 flow .at 30 wide ,I still have problems in rough water....
where the 8'10 130 flow is easier to ride ,but doesn't have the performance of the 8'7 120.
96 kgs .
I'M also looking at a 8'8 spitfire .smik.
I think the short boards are for me .

Also, throw the JP boards in the mix.

An 8'6" x 29" @ 113 lts will be doable @ your weight. The surf pro is a great performance shape.

Agreed - the JP Pro is a tried & tested performance template!

I'm surprised we don't hear more about the Mad Dog because by all accounts, it's a great board & Tardy's right...the 8'11 is only 29" wide...unfortunately I've never seen an 8'11 in the flesh so I can't comment about the rails?

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Tardy said..
I reckon go with what your happy riding ,i have a few very small boards in my shed that collect dust .

have you looked at the 8'11 maddog .130 litres .
8.6 tabou .125
8,6 smik twin .
i currently ride a 120 flow .at 30 wide ,I still have problems in rough water....
where the 8'10 130 flow is easier to ride ,but doesn't have the performance of the 8'7 120.
96 kgs .
I'M also looking at a 8'8 spitfire .smik.
I think the short boards are for me .

Classic Tardy.... AS you know im on the flow 8'7 and acid 8'10 but receintly got my hands on a 8'2 x 115L smik hipster twin custom.....


EPIC EPIC EPIC.. they are wide but the tail is so pulled in they are fun as and love steeper faster waves so much fun... I got scotty to bring the wide point back a bit for stability as there is not much volume in the tail so you are standing forward on the board but hell they are fun.. I actulaay like the flow in fatter waves but the twin is epic in walling beach breaks loves to get vertical and throw the tail.. very happy..

Depends on what type of wave you ride and how u ride.
If it is a long fat rolly wave yes you can go wider.
Beachies or decent waves or if you wanna shred as you say and really push yourself and your riding, go under 30 or as low as you can go.

My recommendations would be and in order:
speeed 8'5 or 8'8
hipster twin 8' or custom (second only because i have not got to try one yet but see the cons)
flow 8'4 or 8'7 if you are worried about stability
OR longboard style, something like a style or stylemaster. these things shred longboard style but are not top to bottom machines, more like setup walk arch back step back hack repeat.

challenge yourself if you want to shred. Doesnt take long to go from a 120l board to a 110l board, nek month you be starting to wonder what a 100l board is like.. its addictive...

yes there are plenty of other brands and pro shapes that would also work like JP pro or slate, or starboard pro or hypernut or others. see what shops round u have demos.

I would just say if you are going to go over the 30" wide, get as much of a pulled in tail as you can and thinnest rails.

the big thing i see with people on wide thick corky boards like x32, allwaves and others similar are i see them paddle onto waves ok but then as soon as they get speed they start bouncing and defo dont turn very aggressive or top to bottom, its more like an up and down along face sort of thing. BUT hey people have fun on them so great for them, but i would not call it shredding.

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slugga said..

Tardy said..
I reckon go with what your happy riding ,i have a few very small boards in my shed that collect dust .

have you looked at the 8'11 maddog .130 litres .
8.6 tabou .125
8,6 smik twin .
i currently ride a 120 flow .at 30 wide ,I still have problems in rough water....
where the 8'10 130 flow is easier to ride ,but doesn't have the performance of the 8'7 120.
96 kgs .
I'M also looking at a 8'8 spitfire .smik.
I think the short boards are for me .

Classic Tardy.... AS you know im on the flow 8'7 and acid 8'10 but receintly got my hands on a 8'2 x 115L smik hipster twin custom.....


EPIC EPIC EPIC.. they are wide but the tail is so pulled in they are fun as and love steeper faster waves so much fun... I got scotty to bring the wide point back a bit for stability as there is not much volume in the tail so you are standing forward on the board but hell they are fun.. I actulaay like the flow in fatter waves but the twin is epic in walling beach breaks loves to get vertical and throw the tail.. very happy..

slugga that looks sik and yeh as i said if you go bit wide get a thinned out pulled in tail so you can hack away.
colour scheme looks sik.
i do wonder why scotty does not put the tail pad right at the back so cutout is at the plug and kickpad right back. is it cos these boards are so thinned out in the tail or is it cos you are mainly driving off the twin fronts?

29 is the magic number for me at 105kg. Above that in decent waves I have issues going rail to rail. In small soft surf what ever works. 28 wide feels awesome in good surf but I struggle with stability so it is a compromise at 29.

As with most, my quest for performance has been long and fun.
At 110 kg and 69 years old, performance is relative, but passion is still there to seek it out!

My early "short" boards were thick railed for "stability" but lacked the ability to bury a rail going frontside.

I came to appreciate the stability of thinly foiled rails, but still need some width..... 30.5" to 32"

ALL my boards now bury a rail on the biggest waves I surf (2xOH)
I can feel the performance, even if I lack the skill to go full vert, slasher.

IMO, width is not necessarily the enemy of performance on a well shaped board. Don't be afraid to ask for comfort and performance.

My 32" wide Creek will do anything I can ask of it and I watched James Casey go total vert, slasher on it, at a "Waterman's Weekend" last month

A look another "wide" board, here's a vid of me riding my 9'4 x 31.5" Acid in small waves.


And a couple of pics of James on my Big Boy 9'4 x 32" Creek

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supthecreek said..
As with most, my quest for performance has been long and fun.
At 110 kg and 69 years old, performance is relative, but passion is still there to seek it out!

My early "short" boards were thick railed for "stability" but lacked the ability to bury a rail going frontside.

I came to appreciate the stability of thinly foiled rails, but still need some width..... 30.5" to 32"

ALL my boards now bury a rail on the biggest waves I surf (2xOH)
I can feel the performance, even if I lack the skill to go full vert, slasher.

IMO, width is not necessarily the enemy of performance on a well shaped board. Don't be afraid to ask for comfort and performance.

My 32" wide Creek will do anything I can ask of it and I watched James Casey go total vert, slasher on it, at a "Waterman's Weekend" last month

A look another "wide" board, here's a vid of me riding my 9'4 x 31.5" Acid in small waves.

And a couple of pics of James on my Big Boy 9'4 x 32" Creek

Yep in small waves wider boards are fine.

i think this is the eternal struggle
but before i start i'm just gonna say i'm 120 and ride an old school 9'3 sub vector

it's not super easy to find a board for someone looking for a smaller performance board that is not for a small guy, as alot of boards are made to suit the majority of people as they will make money of them at the end of the day

as most of the guys have already mentioned it definitely depends on what sort of waves and conditions you surf in, for me my board is good when there is a bit of power in the surf but it is hard work when there is a bit of chop, ie thinner boards, thinner tails go good in hollow surf, fat stubby board go good in fatter mushy conditions
also how you surf and your ability, most guys here have fallen into the trap of going to small in the search of performance, and this it self has translated into the popular 10foot class
fins can make a huge difference so before you chuck a board try it with a different set of fins
Demo as many boards as you can in the conditions you intend to use them

at the end of the day you might want to look at talking to a shaper if you know what you want, as you can get most custom boards for cheaper than production boards, probably one of the best boards ive had was a custom DTM (don't know if Dan still makes sups, Anyone?) and i would buy another one super quick
if you can buy two boards, one for when the conditions are perfect (probably less than 5%of the time), and one for when the conditions are onshore and crap (95%of the time) it would be ideal, if not find something that your happy to surf in all conditions

just my 2c

Jarryd

Not that a 29" wide pointed nose is quite different from a "tomo" at 29"

I would just add to the discussion that a narrow boards allows a faster rail to rail, if the wave is powerful enough, but then the rider must have the physical and technical ability to take advantage of this reduced latency. Otherwise the board looseness is "wasted".
I know that at my age and ability, I have no need to go narrower than 28" for a pointed nose shape in Hossegor, the boards reacts then quicker than I am able to picture the moves in my mind.

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slugga said..

Tardy said..
I reckon go with what your happy riding ,i have a few very small boards in my shed that collect dust .

have you looked at the 8'11 maddog .130 litres .
8.6 tabou .125
8,6 smik twin .
i currently ride a 120 flow .at 30 wide ,I still have problems in rough water....
where the 8'10 130 flow is easier to ride ,but doesn't have the performance of the 8'7 120.
96 kgs .
I'M also looking at a 8'8 spitfire .smik.
I think the short boards are for me .

Classic Tardy.... AS you know im on the flow 8'7 and acid 8'10 but receintly got my hands on a 8'2 x 115L smik hipster twin custom.....


EPIC EPIC EPIC.. they are wide but the tail is so pulled in they are fun as and love steeper faster waves so much fun... I got scotty to bring the wide point back a bit for stability as there is not much volume in the tail so you are standing forward on the board but hell they are fun.. I actulaay like the flow in fatter waves but the twin is epic in walling beach breaks loves to get vertical and throw the tail.. very happy..

nice one slugga, i wish you hadn't of shown me that.

I'll add into the conversation that a wide board at 31'' or 30'' can be made more performance orientated by changing the fins.
My Flow 8'7 is set up as Quad at the mo' because the waves where I live a fat and rolling and I'm after a bit of drive and speed, but when I take it to punchier curly sucky wave breaks I thruster it.. and I swapped out the stock Sunova fins for FCS PCC7's.. and the board rips and slashes.. I love it. And the Flow 8'7 I think is considered a great all-round wave board, but conceded to some that it's not a hardcore waveboard like the Acid or Flash now, or the Creek.

I've also got a Speeed 8'10 with PCC7's in and a Shroom 8'0 with stock fins in (which I will play around with he rears, might even twin it for a laugh)

The boards you've mentioned are IMO performance wave boards and can be thrown around with ease, however without knowing your breaks and skills it's difficult to find that exact board.

Hope this helps, give the fins a swap out and see how that goes.

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Supnorte said..
I was talking with Caio Vaz recently (we ran a SUP clinic with him in Porto) and he told me that his performance went boom when he changed from a 27'' wide board to a 26''. But he also said that he would be a much happier man if he surfed a 27'' wide board

I would need one for each foot

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SunovaBouy said..
I'll add into the conversation that a wide board at 31'' or 30'' can be made more performance orientated by changing the fins.
My Flow 8'7 is set up as Quad at the mo' because the waves where I live a fat and rolling and I'm after a bit of drive and speed, but when I take it to punchier curly sucky wave breaks I thruster it.. and I swapped out the stock Sunova fins for FCS PCC7's.. and the board rips and slashes.. I love it. And the Flow 8'7 I think is considered a great all-round wave board, but conceded to some that it's not a hardcore waveboard like the Acid or Flash now, or the Creek.

I've also got a Speeed 8'10 with PCC7's in and a Shroom 8'0 with stock fins in (which I will play around with he rears, might even twin it for a laugh)

The boards you've mentioned are IMO performance wave boards and can be thrown around with ease, however without knowing your breaks and skills it's difficult to find that exact board.

Hope this helps, give the fins a swap out and see how that goes.

I have the 8 10 Speeed and a performance board it is not. Great allrounder but not what I would call performance even with 105kg on it. I can do ok turns on it but the wide tail and nose prevent close to the curl action.

This is the best I can do. Not very vertical or radical. On a shorter narrower board I would get more performance.

I didn't say my Speeed nor Shroom were "performance" boards like the OP wants/compares although very good at what they do. But they are a performance board for different conditions. I just said I've changed the fins out on the Speeed to loosen it up a bit but left the Shrooms stock for the moment.

I did mention my Flow and that I'd changed the stock fins to suit conditions and offered up that as a suggestion to try..

Nice little vid on the Speeed, that's about what I do with mine too

Numbers, widths etc....folk get too caught up in that. You can't tell how a board performs by its numbers....

Good topic. I am 6'2" 100kg. Ventured down to 28" somewhere along the line. Loved it but only enjoyed it every now and then.
My narrowest board at the moment is my minion at 29 1/2". Shred? Not really. Thrash? Yes. Still a great fun board.
The 2 boards I have really "excelled" on are my 9'2" Deep JC, and my 8'10" Flow. They're both 31" wide. Sometimes I think it might be because I am enjoying myself more in between waves, saving energy, and conserving my mojo by not falling off as much.
Both boards are a credit to great shapers.
I also reckon having a 100kg plus to jam on the tail pad, with the right fin set up can get me "shredding" as much as I'm ever going to.
And smiling. Which is the most important thing, isn't it?

Shortboard performance is easier on narrower boards, for me at 95# 28-29 seems to be sweet. Though on the right shape and moving my feet I've had some loose rides even at 32in wide. The heavier the rider the easier it is to sink the rail. So although narrow goes, wider can as well with more effort.

In big waves though, wider starts to work against the paddle in and drop. Almost as if the width is causing a friction that hangs the board up in the lip. Under 30, or in my case 28 then seems to be the ticket.

I think your natural balance plays a massive part in width as well.
Doesn't matter what the width is, as if you can't stand on it comfortably your really wasting your time.
Rocker,rail thickness/shape and tail shape also need to be considered.
Unless your a young pro you should find something that you can comfortably stand on in average conditions. Swap and demo is the way to go as you might surprise yourself.
I have ridden boards at 30 inches wide performance style 7/8 ft boards and they can be pushed hard and perform well if you have some intermediate surfing skills.

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wazza66 said..
Doesn't matter what the width is, as if you can't stand on it comfortably your really wasting your time.

Another factor is the volume.

On narrow boards, too much volume for your weight will make the board very unstable, with an amplified "cork" or "standing on a barrel" effect. So, in my opinion, you should also learn to ride on boards with the deck underwater if you want to reduce your board width. It will be extremely tiring and kill your paddling speed, but has the benefit to somewhat be the same kind of balance on flat water and with chop, I guess because the board being underwater is shielded from the water surface moves.

So, my experience tells me that I'd rather be on a sinking narrow board that will require me to stay focused not to fall, but in a predictable way rather than be on a floating narrow board that will balance better on glassy conditions, but will make me fall unexpectedly on every chop and water movement.

I love the challenge of surfing the low litre thinner boards ... & it's actually good for your fitness and surfing .. bring it on.. 112 litres is easy for me now at 92kegs + wettie .. 100 litres tho I still can't handle

totally agree with the volume thing ...colas.
i switch from board to board ...8'8 x32 @ 140 litres ,8'7 120 litre flow ,8'10 130 litre flow

as colas says ...the 140litre 8'8 x32 even though small in length does fell corky or like a barrel .you can get bucked off it quite easy ,it is the looses of the 3 .huge rocker ,but you have to paddle hard to catch waves ...
the 130 flow is the easies to catch waves ,ride them ,but at 95 kg i have trouble getting it to turn real sharp.it feels big for me ,which is a shame .as it will handle rough and any conditions ,I will use it as a big wave board .i wish it was narrower ...same as the 8'7
which leave me with the 120 flow ,
i wish it had 5 more litres for my ability ,30.5 wide is ok ,as the board really rips ,but I sink it ,which makes it difficult to ride in all condition ,I Weighed my wet wet suit helmet ,paddle .it brought me over 100kgs ,I'M LOOKING forward to summer to lighten the load ,so i can ride this board more .i think i have found my boundary mark .
i doubt if i would every go below 120 ...litres for my weight ...or maybe i need to find other boards ...
or get better.at riding what I've got.
i would not want to ride bigger than 130 litre either ...for my weight.keeping in mind we are both advanced riders

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colas said..

wazza66 said..
Doesn't matter what the width is, as if you can't stand on it comfortably your really wasting your time.

Another factor is the volume.

On narrow boards, too much volume for your weight will make the board very unstable, with an amplified "cork" or "standing on a barrel" effect. So, in my opinion, you should also learn to ride on boards with the deck underwater if you want to reduce your board width. It will be extremely tiring and kill your paddling speed, but has the benefit to somewhat be the same kind of balance on flat water and with chop, I guess because the board being underwater is shielded from the water surface moves.

So, my experience tells me that I'd rather be on a sinking narrow board that will require me to stay focused not to fall, but in a predictable way rather than be on a floating narrow board that will balance better on glassy conditions, but will make me fall unexpectedly on every chop and water movement.

True Colas, it's a learning curve.
Volume is a huge factor.
Starting off at well over 200 litres, I like hanging around the 1.2 to 1.3 factor nowadays.
Much easier to balance on a board with fine, pulled down rails at, or below, the water line.
And of course they surf a hell of a lot better.
And once you've tried a few boards that are too short, too thick, and too wide that yaw badly around their centre point, you soon start to work out what is right for you.
And which shapers know their sh1t.
And which brands are pumping out crap just to make a buck.
Part of the journey.

On the other hand...

I saw some (on the web live broadcast) of the heats of the IAS SUP championships in Denmark last month. It was interesting to see Justine Dupont ( en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Justine_Dupont ) in them. Although a top level surfer, she just started SUPing (and is now starting to foil), so she had still problems with her balance on a SUP, and chose to ride a stable, wide and floaty board (for her weight) for the contest. She had her deck above the water, where a lot of competitors had sinking boards... and she placed second.

On the videos, it was clear that her board was less nimble than the others, but its speed and glide - and her surfing experience and talent - was making up for the difference, especially on these less than perfect conditions. Plus gals on sinking boards where always paddling, which sometime prevented them to place them at the best critical spot for take off.

So, she had the wisdom to chose a board not too hard for her (current) SUPing abilities.

How wide can a board still qualify as a performance board at this question I would reply quickly :don't look at the diameter, look at the surface of the circle which fits you.
Sometimes shapes of SUP make me think like the first surfboard ones of the seventies when all board was looking very pointy and sharp rail with a deep single fin. So be on a Sub SUP narrowest and shortest as possible appears to me as 70's start or trend . As well as paddling on a large , long and thick buoyant sounds the same to me: those opposite widths have not the best surfing fun and got bad surfing performances.
But shaping tweaks and knowledge do make change things quickly nowadays .
To my experience the standard sub surface SUP board like the couple 5' 8" shorty and 75 kg mate is in first a question of ratio between Body weight and board bottom surface.
So rule#1 is to not look after width and length at first but at the surface obtains from one outline template which suits or please you.
#2 choose the one with the width which has the overall minimum stability you can stand. As an example narrow nose and tail outline need to be wider for same stability than a Minion type outline.
#3 choose the thickness to obtain a minimal volume to float you for the given surface chosen at #1, keep in eye that thinner is the rail more performance gotten.

To follow on the idea to not look at the width or dims, the #4 to say is to balance the width with center of buoyancy ....and then it's a question of shapes alchemy

Just give Sunova a call or email. Bert Berger will give you a true recommendation on your abilities.
This is my view so far. For paddleboards width is for stability & comfort whilst waiting for a wave.
Also width as well as rocker on the planing surface will affect speed. More rocker & width will slow you down on a straight run at speed without turning. And width will slow your leaning turns forcing you to make your rear foot to go to the right rail for right turns & left for left turns.
But width will give you great planing at very slow speeds.
And no rocker will give you great speed & great nose dives If the nose goes under. Lol
And then it gets very complicated with rail outline. The more round outline the tighter the overall turn. The straighter the outline the more carvier or wider the turn if you are turning the board forward of the tail pad.
So you will have to determine what type of surfer you are.
Basically the shredder surfers will have their rear foot on the tail pad. So this area will have very little width like the drawn in tail. And the rocker more pronounced to make aggresive turns & reduce the nose dive.
And virtually the opposite for a more fluid & carvy surfer.
So my basic comfort recommendation for width for an 80 kg person is 30inches. 85kgs 31 to 32 inches. 75 kgs 28 inches.
And this all changes again on determining the strength & power of the surfer.