HI all

I am new here but have read enough to love this site and thought now I need some help so here goes.

I started with a Naish Nala 11.4 by 31(about) but soon needed something that would glide for a bit and not stop dead in the water when I stopped paddling. The rocker was very pronounced and pushed water ahead so it was time to move on to something quicker. So now I have my current board a 12.6 X 28 Jimmy Lewis Blade II. I love the board and I think it might be fast but in anything but flat water I really struggle to stay on. I am 6.1 and 89kg with pin legs so I am top heavy. But most of all I am 45 so perhaps balance is not as natural as it once was.

So now to the point. I want a second board that is 14 foot long and wide enough so I can stay on it in the lumpy stuff and even try some down winding. Any advice would be treasured, I would like second hand but could go new. The Blade II is built very strong and I rate this on the priority list. There is a good condition falcon 14 X 27.5 for a good price as well as a Zeedonk 14 X 28 and a Marlin 14 X 30. There are more coming up all the time and like I said I could go new in the Fanatic or Naish line, I could even swollow my pride and go StarBoard.

Any suggestions appreciated

If you are having balance issues on the 12'6 x 28", which is a very stable platform for your dimensions, then you might need to get some more time on the water and paddle it in choppy/tricky conditions to get used to it. I am your age but a bit lighter (85kg) and a lot shorter and have no issues on my Fanatic 12'6 x 27.5". I SUP surf a lot on small boards (8'5 and 7'4) so that helps with balance. I've tried a load of different race boards and they are all pretty good for stability and even the narrow board sub-25" still have good secondary stability to recover from a wobble. If you want to get into down winders you need to have fairly stable board but more importantly know how to read the bumps and surf them. I do some social racing and get my arse kicked but as soon as it gets choppy or we go on a proper downwinder a lot of the guys who are fast in flat water start falling off as they struggle with the lumpy stuff which is good for me as I purposely paddle in choppy waters to get a good feel for the board and then use my balance and experience reading the water state.

Paddle length and technique is important too.

See if you can demo some boards if at all possible.

Obvious....Jimmy Lewis M14. It was made for the sea and downwindIng. I use mine for touring mostly but on choppier stuff it gives you a lot of confidence. I surf it on small weak swells too....picks them up really well.....don't expect killer turns but if you surf it off the tail it goes fine onto the wave....and fast! I haven't had a proper downwinder on it as I tend to be on my own......not a good idea from a safety point of view. It is a VERY stable board and easy to use.

Dont be put off with the 28 wide.....the hull shape makes it very stable....as if it was 30 wide. Try one if you can or get some feedback from others on it.....it is known for being an easy board for those wanting to get into down winding but also to progress with.

i should add that I have a 11 4 Nalu and love that board for surfing.....I would say the M14 is about the same in stability but if you are paddling into chop the M14 copes with it soooooooo much better. I can stand on both boards on a calm day and take pics. Just as a point.....the type of fin you use can have quite an effect on stability.

A planing hull is your friend if you want to downwind. E.g. Jimmy Lewis M14 , SIC Bullet, etc. Not by chance that race boards are now showing up with planing hulls.

I went from Naish 11'4 to Jimmy Lewis M14. What Slab said. (they have similar rocker profile too)

Thanks Stevo Slab Yugi

I was wondering how this board would go on the lumpy stuff that I have trouble with on the Blade II

www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing.aspx?id=791607274

This board must be OK on down winders as I see them in David Johns videos and also good on flat seas and lumpy seas. I think it is a good price and I think it will be more stable than my blade II. However let me know if you don't think I will be able to stay on this board if I am having trouble on my Blade II. It just seems a good price.

Thanks :----)

If you want to downwind you really want a planing hull. That means flat, not round. It also implies hard rails you can carve on.

That Fanatic has a short flatish section underfoot but both front and back are round and railess. Lovely in flat water, sucks in lumpy. Oh! Surprise! Just like the Blade!

I've ridden that Fanatic. As much as it's a joy in pure flat water glass I personally found it really tippy in chop and no fun in downwinders. The lack of any hard rail means to slithers it's way through the bumps and rolls. The opposite of a planing hull. No planing joy. No planing speeds. No one liked it in downwinders and it quickly left our group quiver. Fanatic also moved on quickly to a planing hull, at least the rear section.

Like I said: take note that even race boards are now coming out with planing hulls. The thing is, and it is mentioned in Fanatics promo video of their 2013 flat water race board, is that they noticed that flat planing hulls are not slower than round hulls, bu tmore stable so the board can be narrower.

I'm not racing so prefer the fun of downwinds and am happy with a board that works fine in flat even if it isn't the fastest. Pure DW boards perform very well on flat and better than race boards once choppy. A decent DW board can replace your race board if you aren't racing. It's the shape that makes it stable so you can go narrow. For example a SIC Bullet is very stable and is only 27" wide.

SupNut, where in NZ are you?

Thanks YugI

I just love the look of those Fanatics and was really hoping it could do it all for me. Because at this stage I can only go out in the flat water because the water is cold here in winter and I really want to stay above it. First priority with the next board is being able to go along in one to two foot high chop. Then after a while maybe try some down winding.

Just a small one, how would the new Fanatics and Naish 2015 boards handle one to two foot chop ?

Hi Desflurane I am in Takapuna and like going up and down east coast bays but stick to a certain side of the lake when the sea is choppy

This is my M14..... This is what we mean by a true planing hull.....nice and flat and check the sharpish edges from the hull.....but the rails are nice and round and forgiving.

PM me and we'll get together and you can try my Javelin.

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Desflurane said..
PM me and we'll get together and you can try my Javelin.

The internet can be a strange and dangerous place be careful!…just saying...

No worries I have my blade

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Stev0 said..

Desflurane said..
PM me and we'll get together and you can try my Javelin.

The internet can be a strange and dangerous place be careful!…just saying...

OMG

LOL

Naish Nalu 11'4 with jimmy Lewis M14



Perfect quiver. They turn the same, react the same in the water.

A good DW board will overlap your need for 12'6 unless you plan to race in 12'6 division. Most DW boards will keep your feet up out of the water and be very stable, even at 27" or 28" wide, so perfect for cold water chop. You can even drop booties early in summer season.

The new Naish Javelins look sweet. And so begins the race boards with planing hulls...

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Desflurane said..
PM me and we'll get together and you can try my Javelin.

My coffee splurted out on that one - nice one!

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yugi said..
Naish Nalu 11'4 with jimmy Lewis M14
Perfect quiver. They turn the same, react the same in the water.
A good DW board will overlap your need for 12'6 unless you plan to race in 12'6 division. Most DW boards will keep your feet up out of the water and be very stable, even at 27" or 28" wide, so perfect for cold water chop. You can even drop booties early in summer season.
The new Naish Javelins look sweet. And so begins the race boards with planing hulls...

Yugi - is that the pre 2014 version? It looks like it has a little more lift in the tail than mine unless I am imagining it. What fin do you use on it....I have ditched the stock JL tracker fin and now stuck on the new Futures California downwinder fin...not had it in the water though.

I use a Rainbow MDT 3 10 inch on my Nalu...has a wider base than you fin but less volume towards the tip...seems to do everything well. In teresting we have the same boards! I also have an 8ft 8 JP surf widebody - love that wee board...sooo much fun but I do miss the glide into waves early.

Guys,

Made inquiries about an M14 so fingers crossed there is one out there in one form or another. Also I wil be doing lots of reading reviews about the new glides and Fanatics, they may be going to put out something that is good in heavy chop and downwinding. Having a hard time with the thought that my new 14ft will actually be slower than my 12.6. We need a three piece board that we can change the bow and the stern to suit the conditions and type of padling.

Yes, get a downwind or open ocean board. You have to accept that no one board does it all, I'm afraid. A Coreban Dart would also be good for you, it is very stable in chop (more so than the SIC Bullet or M14). A NSP DC board might work too if you can find one. The 2015 14x30 Fanatic is an interesting possibility too, although a friend who has one days that it's not as stable as he expected for 30" wide, and it won't go as well downwind as a dedicated downwind board. If stability is your issue with the Blade, then get a stable board. You will find it hugely more pleasant to use. Don't trust other people's judgements of stability, and don't believe the marketing blurb. There's no substitute for trying boards yourself. In chop, and for most people, stability = speed. You cannot be fast if you are struggling to stay upright, because you cannot commit to your stroke and every other one will be a brace stroke. In real world conditions this factor far out weighs any theoretical advantage from a board being one or two inches narrower, especially over a decent distance.

Yes, it's from 2013. I heard the new rocker was flattened out. Your's probably quicker to plane. Mine takes a little coaxing.

I ran a Hatchet 10" fin for festive DWs and a Velzy 9" noserider for day to day. The Velzy being low surface area (was a bit surprised - hadn't planned that). The tiny fin worked surprisingly well. Then again I learned to paddle straight early on.

Futures California downwinder fin looks sweet. Wrong color though!

I've moved on BTW. Got a Rogue Rage now. Next step in my learning curve. Buddy in group has M14 now. Weird to see it from the side (even more beautiful). We have a loose sense of ownership and we rotate boards through the gang a lot to get a sense of what different boards are like.

You could also consider a 2014 Naish Glide.... I love mine, performs really well in rough conditions. I have the GX however the GS probably handles nasty conditions even better. These boards have excellent stability and decent speed, well worth a try.

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SupNut said..
...
Made inquiries about an M14 so fingers crossed there is one out there in one form or another.
...
Having a hard time with the thought that my new 14ft will actually be slower than my 12.6.
...

I don't think so. We find that 14' DW boards are a close match for the speed of a 12'6 raceboard. In flat. In chop or big chop they become faster. As a result all in our gang have sold their race boards to have just a quiver-of-one 14' board. And we're on a lake! (I'm keeping my Naish 11'4 as guest board and for trips to the coast. That doesn't count. It's a keeper.).

In the speed department the SIC Bullet (and Rogue Rage - but it won't keep your feet warm) rule. As I expect do the new Jav or Bluefin too which should be quick if a bit more tchnical / race. As mentioned earlier a pure DW shape, though narrower, are inherently more stable. I'd liken them to a hammock stability where a race board is more like standing on a log in water. And somehow narrow is fast.

I was under the impression wanted a board for lumpy seas. my point was that the Glide has decent speed for a board of its type. I didn't get the impression that he was after a race board?

Well it was only going to be a matter of time before someone on this forum mentioned a Naish Glide so I didn't think I needed to. But a 2013-4 14x29 Glide would be a good choice, and I'm sure DJ will be along soon to recommend a 14x28 2014-5 Javelin.

Narrow is only fast if you are comfortable on it. Otherwise it is dog slow. But unless you are racing you'd probably not notice anyway. I've just come back from an upwind/DW session with a friend. I was on a Bullet 14v1 and he was on a Coreban Dart. We weren't racing but we weren't hanging about - a reasonable training pace. I was slightly faster upwind and downwind. But swap boards and...I'm still slightly faster upwind and downwind. He finds the Bullet a bit tippy so that takes away any theoretical advantage the board might give him. The fastest board is one that you are comfortable on. And anyway, unless you are a win-at-all-costs Connor Baxter type, it's not all about speed. There are plenty of boards out there that are fast but very unpleasant to paddle. So unless you really intend to race seriously in the ocean, get a board that you will feel comfortable on, which given your history probably means a stable one. You'll probably find 29" and wider most comfortable (although the 2015 14x28 Jav is pretty stable for 28"). I hardly ever hear anyone say "this board is too stable for me", but I hear them say "this board is too tippy" all the time. The M14 and Bullet 14 (and Rogue Rage) are pretty advanced boards for someone starting out in rough water paddling and who specifically mentions balance as an issue.

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yugi said..
Yes, it's from 2013. I heard the new rocker was flattened out. Your's probably quicker to plane. Mine takes a little coaxing.

I ran a Hatchet 10" fin for festive DWs and a Velzy 9" noserider for day to day. The Velzy being low surface area (was a bit surprised - hadn't planned that). The tiny fin worked surprisingly well. Then again I learned to paddle straight early on.

Futures California downwinder fin looks sweet. Wrong color though!

I've moved on BTW. Got a Rogue Rage now. Next step in my learning curve. Buddy in group has M14 now. Weird to see it from the side (even more beautiful). We have a loose sense of ownership and we rotate boards through the gang a lot to get a sense of what different boards are like.

Sounds like you have it good being able tontry out diff boards

Cheers guys

Spot on Antho I got my race board that is reasonably fast. My priority now is a board I can go paddling in the choppy stuff. So then I will be able to go out more often. I Keep falling into the icy NZ winter water so I need something that is easier to stay on.

Area10 I know what you are saying, I can't paddle properly unless I am comfortable. I realized this when I paddled a huge Hobbie 11 foot something long and 32 wide. With this board I was able to practice my strokes with full comittment. Then back in NZ I just can't commit to getting the paddle way up ahead of me like I can on the big wide rentals. So my paddling go's backwards because I am struggling to stay on. .


I feel better now Yugi, at the moment I can just keep ahead of my fit and younger misses. Seeing her paddle off into the distance will be a real MOJO killer.

Weather looks great this week. When are you free?

Area 10...... You rate the M14 as a bit advanced in terms of stability? Have to say I find it remarkably stable......but I have surfed and SUPd for a few years.

I would assume that someone who has a Nalu 11'4 (low volume board) and a Blade II would find a Bullet, M14 or similar really stable and yet fast enough to have fun paddling around in flat. I think it's perfectly normal for someone to find a round-hull race board unstable in cold water chop. They are unstable.

Most people I have seen swapping race boards always finds their own the most stable. It's pretty funny. I assume because there is a reflex reaction to learn to learn for the specific twitchiness of each race board. Everyone I know who has a race board and steps onto a DW board is immediately at home and remarks how stable they are.

Dart to a Bullet is another story. Also each person has their learning curve and each board it's weight limit.

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yugi said..
I would assume that someone who has a Nalu 11'4 (low volume board) and a Blade II would find a Bullet, M14 or similar really stable and yet fast enough to have fun paddling around in flat. I think it's perfectly normal for someone to find a round-hull race board unstable in cold water chop. They are unstable.

Most people I have seen swapping race boards always finds their own the most stable. It's pretty funny. I assume because there is a reflex reaction to learn to learn for the specific twitchiness of each race board. Everyone I know who has a race board and steps onto a DW board is immediately at home and remarks how stable they are.

Dart to a Bullet is another story. Also each person has their learning curve and each board it's weight limit.

Very true I reckon....I have a friend who rides a 14ft Starboard All star....he says it is a tippy board until it gets going and he has pretty good balance. All to do with the hull shape etc.

my bike is super tippy until I get it going

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Slab said...
Area 10...... You rate the M14 as a bit advanced in terms of stability? Have to say I find it remarkably stable......but I have surfed and SUPd for a few years.

Compared to eg. a Coreban Dart, Angulo Shaka, or Glide 14x29", yes.