hi
what sort of reserve volume are you guys running?

Im 80kgs and read a lot of heavier guys on much less volume than me.
Im on 130l, for the stability In average conditions.
Would like to go smaller to increase performance but not lose the surf ability and fun factor.

Cheers

macca for what it is worth i am intermediate but i am 80 kgs and have:

stubbie 8' 2" Volume 106 litres - i am finding it challenging, but fine in glassy conditions.

laird 9' Vol 119 litres - pretty good in all conditions - not much of a step down in volume from what yu have though.

What i think i would like is to have a 9' board with volume around 105 -110. I think there could be small gain in stability over the stubbie due to the increased length

Get a 120 flow ,you'll rip .
its challenging for me at 98 kgs ..but a sure beat for you guys .at 80 kgs .
i have a good time on 130....if I fall a lot because the boards to small for me
I get pissed off .and ...the fun has gone ..great question ...I had to find my happy volume .
I'm at a happy place now after 3 years of volume dropping and searching ...I hope you find it
....remember width plays a big part too...

Hey rgmacca

86kg and range from 101L to 125L depending on the conditions.

7'11 x 28 ECS Slab 125L
8'2 x 29 Infinity B-LINE 101L
8'2 x 30 Infinity RNB 125L
9 x 28 Infinity New Deal 104L

Have been riding the 9fter the most recently and getting used to the lower volume. Not much swell about so has been fun

Im 73kg, main surf SUP is 76 x 26 85 litres, its a bit hard to handle in the slop though so i use a 710 x 27.5 at 92 litres and can surf it in pretty much anything. The lower you go the more a litre or 2 makes a big difference in stability in my opinion....The 76 surfs much better than the 710....

Lately i've been between 108-110kg and I have:

126L Sunova Skate XL 8'2" x 31.75"
140L Sunova custom Longboard 10'4" x 28.5"
129L Sunova custom Creek (on its way) 9'0 x 30.75"

That being said, I float better on my 126L Skate (slightly wet feet) than I do on my mates Nalu Carbon Pro 130L (wet up to my ankles) - As such I feel Sunova's under quote their volume / or Naish over quote theirs.... might also have something to do with Sunova using Balsa...

If you are looking at Sunova or Smik, find an outline size and shape you like and think is stable enough for you, then get the volume tuned to what you need... the cost difference for custom is so small it's a no brainer...

Hoppo Why a custom creek an not a 9 4 production ?

My 7'8 stubby is 29 3/4 wide about 120 litres and piece of cake at 85kg. Sunova Speeed 8'5 is 27 3/4 And 112 litres. Generally fine but hard work when choppy. I think the width is more important than the volume tbh I prefer the board sat more in the water now. Had a go on a JP pro 8'1 the other day at 103 litres, definitely hard work but very doable when clean!

Macca - I'm 78kg, and I've dropped in the past year or so from 140L to 104L, back up to 125L, and then settled into the 112L range. The moral of the story is the board shape, rail type, etc. has a lot to do with stability beyond just a volume #.

The 104 L was a 7'11" x 29" F-One Madeiro, and I loved how it surfed, but if there was any chop, I was hating life. Now, my primary board is a 8'8" JL Supertech at 112L, and I have no stability issues.

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mike3217 said..
Hoppo Why a custom creek an not a 9 4 production ?

For me, 9'4" is too wide at 32" and too high volume at 148L. I want my Creek to be my good conditions ripper, so I wanted as small as I can realistically ride for long sessions.
I also wanted to be able to travel o/s with it so the 9'1 was out (as most airlines won't take over 9') and the 8'10" was just a bit too low in volume for me... so I split the middle in volume and dimensions and we tweaked the rails a bit. Pretty easy for Bert/Dylan to change.

I also wanted a custom finish and a ledge style handle as I don't like the handles they come with as standard. I also asked for a arch bar on the kick pad.. A bit nit-picky I know, but if i'm forking over $2400 ish for a board... I want exactly what I want :)

Yea how accurate are the stated volume of a any brands boards.My old PSH said 120 lit. My Sunova 8-10 speed says 130 it sits about the same or lower.Had a ride on a boardworks stated vol.105 did not sink that much.My way of thinking now plus minus 10 to 15 %

Hoppo Fair enough should be a great board

I'm 80kgs wet and ride these: 8'7 Flow, 8'10 speeed and 8'3 Shroom.
Volume is all part of the equation but plan shape is a big factor too.
So whilst all those float and ride, they all have very different characteristics.
What is it you are looking for in a Board ?

Plenty of ace smaller brands building some stunners, DEEP, Infinity and so on, all have varied plan shapes and volumes to suit.

STC has the knowledge, he's posted on here many times his views.. seek them out, plenty of information passed on.

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rgmacca said..
Im 80kgs and read a lot of heavier guys on much less volume than me.

I am 100kg, and for some years, 140 liters was the smallest I could think being on.

My shaper had to force me to get smaller boards, it was hard at first, but I discovered that it is a kind of vicious circle: if you feel unstable in chop on X liters, you will fear going lower, and if you try a smaller board you will freak out at the slightest wobble, and use this board only on glassy condition, and not progress on your balance.

So:

- Do not get down on volume too early. Wait till your technique is good enough to paddle efficiently: you can sprint without getting off balance, you can walk around the board, sink the tail, look behind you...

- You have to force yourself, the first days on a smaller board will feel like hell

- Do not reduce the width at the same time: balance is mainly provided by the width. I'd advise going down first in volume. Then, once you develop the set of skills to master a submerged board, only then tackle the reduction in width

- Reducing volume reaps immense benefits, and feels safer, in powerful hollow stuff. But it slows down the paddling speed and is more tiring, even with technique. So keeping a higher volume board in the quiver (120 liters for my 100kg) is great for small slow waves, and when you must paddle a lot to migrate between breaks.

Select to expand quote

rgmacca said..
hi
what sort of reserve volume are you guys running?

Im 80kgs and read a lot of heavier guys on much less volume than me.
Im on 130l, for the stability In average conditions.
Would like to go smaller to increase performance but not lose the surf ability and fun factor.

Cheers

As several answers have acknowledged, plan shape (area on the water) is a big factor, as well as volume.
So a "square" shape will be stable at shorter lengths and lower volume

I find that the long standing "ratio numbers" are spot on.
weight in kg x ratio = volume
with your weight:
Beginner: 80 x 1.7 = 136 L
Intermediate: 80 x 1.5 = 120 L
Advanced: 80 x 1.3 = 104 L
Savant: 80 x 1 = 80 L
Using those numbers, you are right between beginner and intermediate volume ratio with your current board
Wider board = you can go with lower volume
Narrow board or thin, pointy nose = you need more volume and length

When I first dropped to 1.3 times weight, I had to up my game, so I practiced in insane conditions... on any board I could borrow.
It didn't take long to feel comfortable on 1.3, if the shape was reasonable
Now I surf boards between 1.17 to 1.38

I like your comment "but not lose the surf ability and fun factor"
My suggestion is, you should be looking at:
Wider board between 100 and 110 liters, depending on shape
Performance shape between 110 and 120 liters

Enjoy the search!

Thanks for the great response guys.
It looks like around +20-25% volume as a rough guide, depending on width shape.

I could with with a few days on a smaller demo board, shame as don't have any local shops with demo kit.

I like the the sound of a 8,6"x30" (ish) with thin rails.
We get some pretty average to bumpy waves, with a lot of water movement at times. I do get those real glass days but maybe 30% of time.
i have made mistake before in other hobbies, going to small like all pro guys in vides useing pro sizes in perfect conditions, get dragged into the hype. In reality I'm average jo, in average conditions who likes to maximise time on water
cheers.

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SunovaBouy said..
I'm 80kgs wet and ride these: 8'7 Flow, 8'10 speeed and 8'3 Shroom.
Volume is all part of the equation but plan shape is a big factor too.
So whilst all those float and ride, they all have very different characteristics.
What is it you are looking for in a Board ?

Plenty of ace smaller brands building some stunners, DEEP, Infinity and so on, all have varied plan shapes and volumes to suit.

STC has the knowledge, he's posted on here many times his views.. seek them out, plenty of information passed on.

Hi
which out of your 3 has the most stability in chop!

Like the look of Sunova's. I just want a 2 board quiver and have a long board for a change.

I currently have a Hyper nut 8'6 x31.5
its so stable(still come off though in bad chop)
i like the way the HN can be thrown around, I don't like the way it has big chunky rails.
similar size with lovely thin rails would be nice.

Select to expand quote

supthecreek said..

rgmacca said..
hi
what sort of reserve volume are you guys running?

Im 80kgs and read a lot of heavier guys on much less volume than me.
Im on 130l, for the stability In average conditions.
Would like to go smaller to increase performance but not lose the surf ability and fun factor.

Cheers

As several answers have acknowledged, plan shape (area on the water) is a big factor, as well as volume.
So a "square" shape will be stable at shorter lengths and lower volume

I find that the long standing "ratio numbers" are spot on.
weight in kg x ratio = volume
with your weight:
Beginner: 80 x 1.7 = 136 L
Intermediate: 80 x 1.5 = 120 L
Advanced: 80 x 1.3 = 104 L
Savant: 80 x 1 = 80 L
Using those numbers, you are right between beginner and intermediate volume ratio with your current board
Wider board = you can go with lower volume
Narrow board or thin, pointy nose = you need more volume and length

When I first dropped to 1.3 times weight, I had to up my game, so I practiced in insane conditions... on any board I could borrow.
It didn't take long to feel comfortable on 1.3, if the shape was reasonable
Now I surf boards between 1.17 to 1.38

I like your comment "but not lose the surf ability and fun factor"
My suggestion is, you should be looking at:
Wider board between 100 and 110 liters, depending on shape
Performance shape between 110 and 120 liters

Enjoy the search!

Thanks Rick
Any recommendations from your vast experience of boards.

My wish list
High wave count ( without having to mix it with prone on busy days)
a board I can surf, carve, move about a bit, performance with stability.
Stability in less than ideal conditions (I watch with envey at your vids, nice looking waves, watched prob your full collection lol) to keep wave count up, with out to much stress on busy days.
A board to use 80% of time. Have a stylemaster 10 for longboard change.

Thanks for great reviews/vids on all your boards with out the over the top pimping .

rgmacca, just to throw in my tuppence worth...I'm an intermediate Supp'er who came from years of mal surfing.[I have sold all my surfboards and now only Sup. Yep...I'm hooked! Or...I've gone to the dark side. Depends on your perspective] I'm 73 Kg and 70 years old. At 70, I'm still fit and paddle almost every day, often on a lake if the waves are crappy. My first Sup is 9'5" and 32 wide. I learnt on it and although it's made to be 60% still water and 40% surf I still enjoy it on those choppy days. My other Sup is a 8'10" Speeed. It's a great board in clean conditions on waves with a bit of grunt. However, as soon as there's a bit of chop or cross-winds I find it a challenge and I'm sure it's to do with width. My 9'5" is a bit of a battleship but can handle any conditions and I feel much more confident on it. At my age, having relaxed fun is what it's about. My next Sup is going to have a surf shape and at least 31" width. I don't have the experience and knowledge of Creeky and others on this forum but I reckon you can find something with width that will still be fun and rippable [if there's such a word] Good luck mate.

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rgmacca said..

SunovaBouy said..
I'm 80kgs wet and ride these: 8'7 Flow, 8'10 speeed and 8'3 Shroom.
Volume is all part of the equation but plan shape is a big factor too.
So whilst all those float and ride, they all have very different characteristics.
What is it you are looking for in a Board ?

Plenty of ace smaller brands building some stunners, DEEP, Infinity and so on, all have varied plan shapes and volumes to suit.

STC has the knowledge, he's posted on here many times his views.. seek them out, plenty of information passed on.

Hi
which out of your 3 has the most stability in chop!

Like the look of Sunova's. I just want a 2 board quiver and have a long board for a change.

I currently have a Hyper nut 8'6 x31.5
its so stable(still come off though in bad chop)
i like the way the HN can be thrown around, I don't like the way it has big chunky rails.
similar size with lovely thin rails would be nice.

Well, without hogging the thread here are my experiences ..

The 8'7 Flow is fabulous, I use it in cross on/off side on/off and clean onshore and offshore shoulder high, and mushy crumble. It has great plan shape, well distributed volume and a slightly wider tail for riding off. Is it "stable" well yes but you have to have a surf stance to paddle out, around and waiting.. side by side foot placement will tip you off.. now this is a well known and practiced technique by lots of surf paddlers, it needs a bit of practice in cross rip mush to fully understand why we use that stance. Is it the "most stable" close but no.
The Speeed 8'10 isn't stable in cross rips or mush, again semi surf stance and keep moving will stabilise both you and to Board. I use this in the same conditions as the Flow. Is it the "most stable" close but no.
The Shroom, well.. good old short fat boy wins the stability stakes in the above conditions.. it's a wide thin railed short Board for crumble grabbers, I love it in waist high and lower mushy chop because it really makes riding random chop so much fun. Paddling it semi surf stance isn't really necessary but I do because that's how I ride my boards. Is it the "most stable" of those three .. yes..
But.. The Shroom kicks my mates off, but they all ride 9ft+ Fanatic Allwaves or JP's.. the Flow kicks my mates off too and the Speeed they run away from because they're scared of it.. They don't like getting wet or trying other boards.
Do I have a preferred shape of the three, no. I use each one in very similar conditions because I like the variety, I enjoy learning about the way they ride and how they and me cope.. The only Board I take out in head + is the Flow, soooo cool a Board for my abilities in bigger waves, the Speeed loves them too and I'll take that when I fancy it, but it's normally the Flow I grab first for head high..

But.. whilst I am a Sunova fan, it's becuse of the shapes, the design ethos and build quality and I want something other than PopOuts like the Cobra built stuff..
If I could get hold of Infinity or DEEP I'm sure I would have mixed up my quiver, but here in the U.K. we don't get those brands and actually Sunova make boards for my style (whatever that is)

I want to try a DEEP's Minion and Infinity B Line, so pleeeeeese someone bring a few over here, ta.

rgmacca said:
Thanks Rick
Any recommendations from your vast experience of boards?

as you know, I am a Sunova guy, so I intentionally avoided directing you towards them.... but since you asked, here is my best shot.

You are right now, riding a very stable, high volume board with the most stable shape possible.

To get your desired performance, I have to move you off that shape, as I personally have never found all around performance, for everyday use, in the square boards I have ridden.

Example: The Shroom and Skate are both awesome fun, but only in specific conditions.
They are "quiver" boards IMO... as in, not a daily driver, unless you surf mainly low power waves under head high.

To get your stability wishes met, I have to go up a bit in size, but the performance will be there! Both are well above volume needs, but I chose them to make your surfing easy and fun on a daily basis.
Note: These board will NOT be as stable as your Hypernut, but well within reasonable expectations.

Flow:
8'7 x 30 1/4" at 121 L - should meet your needs.
Very stable, snappy overall performance.
Not the best paddler with very curved outline, but acceptable.
Fast and fun.
====================
Creek:
8'10 x 30 1/4" at 125 L - should meet your needs.
Full on performance in all wave conditions. Good paddler.
Speeed tail on a performance shape, makes this board hard to beat IMO.
Wider nose and outline shape make it stable for the volume, but it has less volume and width than the Flow at each size, so not as stable "size for size".
I prefer the performance of my 9'4 Creek, to my 8'10 Flow.

Select to expand quote

supthecreek said..
rgmacca said:
Thanks Rick
Any recommendations from your vast experience of boards?

as you know, I am a Sunova guy, so I intentionally avoided directing you towards them.... but since you asked, here is my best shot.

You are right now, riding a very stable, high volume board with the most stable shape possible.

To get your desired performance, I have to move you off that shape, as I personally have never found all around performance, for everyday use, in the square boards I have ridden.

Example: The Shroom and Skate are both awesome fun, but only in specific conditions.
They are "quiver" boards IMO... as in, not a daily driver, unless you surf mainly low power waves under head high.

To get your stability wishes met, I have to go up a bit in size, but the performance will be there! Both are well above volume needs, but I chose them to make your surfing easy and fun on a daily basis.
Note: These board will NOT be as stable as your Hypernut, but well within reasonable expectations.

Flow:
8'7 x 30 1/4" at 121 L - should meet your needs.
Very stable, snappy overall performance.
Not the best paddler with very curved outline, but acceptable.
Fast and fun.
====================
Creek:
8'10 x 30 1/4" at 125 L - should meet your needs.
Full on performance in all wave conditions. Good paddler.
Speeed tail on a performance shape, makes this board hard to beat IMO.
Wider nose and outline shape make it stable for the volume, but it has less volume and width than the Flow at each size, so not as stable "size for size".
I prefer the performance of my 9'4 Creek, to my 8'10 Flow.

Thanks appreciate advice.

Select to expand quote

supthecreek said..
rgmacca said:
Thanks Rick
Any recommendations from your vast experience of boards?

as you know, I am a Sunova guy, so I intentionally avoided directing you towards them.... but since you asked, here is my best shot.

You are right now, riding a very stable, high volume board with the most stable shape possible.

To get your desired performance, I have to move you off that shape, as I personally have never found all around performance, for everyday use, in the square boards I have ridden.

Example: The Shroom and Skate are both awesome fun, but only in specific conditions.
They are "quiver" boards IMO... as in, not a daily driver, unless you surf mainly low power waves under head high.

To get your stability wishes met, I have to go up a bit in size, but the performance will be there! Both are well above volume needs, but I chose them to make your surfing easy and fun on a daily basis.
Note: These board will NOT be as stable as your Hypernut, but well within reasonable expectations.

Flow:
8'7 x 30 1/4" at 121 L - should meet your needs.
Very stable, snappy overall performance.
Not the best paddler with very curved outline, but acceptable.
Fast and fun.
====================
Creek:
8'10 x 30 1/4" at 125 L - should meet your needs.
Full on performance in all wave conditions. Good paddler.
Speeed tail on a performance shape, makes this board hard to beat IMO.
Wider nose and outline shape make it stable for the volume, but it has less volume and width than the Flow at each size, so not as stable "size for size".
I prefer the performance of my 9'4 Creek, to my 8'10 Flow.

Sup The Creek does the Creek turn from the middle like the Flow or do you have to get right back like on the Speeed ?

Will absolutely turn from the middle...and snap from the tail ;)

Select to expand quote

Gboots said..

supthecreek said..
rgmacca said:
Thanks Rick
Any recommendations from your vast experience of boards?

as you know, I am a Sunova guy, so I intentionally avoided directing you towards them.... but since you asked, here is my best shot.

You are right now, riding a very stable, high volume board with the most stable shape possible.

To get your desired performance, I have to move you off that shape, as I personally have never found all around performance, for everyday use, in the square boards I have ridden.

Example: The Shroom and Skate are both awesome fun, but only in specific conditions.
They are "quiver" boards IMO... as in, not a daily driver, unless you surf mainly low power waves under head high.

To get your stability wishes met, I have to go up a bit in size, but the performance will be there! Both are well above volume needs, but I chose them to make your surfing easy and fun on a daily basis.
Note: These board will NOT be as stable as your Hypernut, but well within reasonable expectations.

Flow:
8'7 x 30 1/4" at 121 L - should meet your needs.
Very stable, snappy overall performance.
Not the best paddler with very curved outline, but acceptable.
Fast and fun.
====================
Creek:
8'10 x 30 1/4" at 125 L - should meet your needs.
Full on performance in all wave conditions. Good paddler.
Speeed tail on a performance shape, makes this board hard to beat IMO.
Wider nose and outline shape make it stable for the volume, but it has less volume and width than the Flow at each size, so not as stable "size for size".
I prefer the performance of my 9'4 Creek, to my 8'10 Flow.

Sup The Creek does the Creek turn from the middle like the Flow or do you have to get right back like on the Speeed ?

Exactly what Hoppo said.

Here are some pics.
When I first got the Creek, I wondered what my feet were doing , so I turned my camera down, to see my feet.
I found that 90% of the time, they were basically at the 2 positions shown by the yellow circles.

If you can see in the small pics.... no matter what turn, they are close to those circles. sometimes hugging the rail like top left and bottom, middle.
I was pretty surprised because I always move around on all my boards.

My board is quite big at 9'4, so it's a fair step back to the stomper, and I am an inflexible lazy-boy , that needs to really step back to do some hacks on this board.

On a smaller size, your back foot will be near the tail anyway.
Check out James Casey's foot positions on his 7'7 Creek.... that's how to really use this board!



James Casey slashing his 7'7 Creek into 3rd place at the Aussie Titles
His back foot works the stomper and his front foot is ahead of the handle
I am more than stoked that James had enough confidence in his Creek, to ride it in this event!

Thanks Creek. One of the problems I have with the Speeed is that when I do get back near the stomper I seem to stall. I think this is because of two reasons :
1. I use it in small surf . Predominantly around 1-2ft
2. I am a short ass and my front foot gets way back as well. That is the distance between both feet is not large enough for the board length . At my height and weight (164 cm and 63 kg) I probably should be riding a much smaller Speeed than an 8'8 but that would mean less waves and definitely more swimming . I already fall in a fair bit when there's chop and wind.

Hence a board that turns from centre would alleviate this prob or go to a shorter wider board like the Shroom

Select to expand quote

Gboots said..
2. I am a short ass and my front foot gets way back as well. That is the distance between both feet is not large enough for the board length . At my height and weight (164 cm and 63 kg) I probably should be riding a much smaller Speeed than an 8'8 but that would mean less waves and definitely more swimming . I already fall in a fair bit when there's chop and wind.

Same here: 167cm / 100kg. Plus with bad hips my stance is quite narrow (I cannot sit on a shortboard anymore).

My advice is that you should ride the shortest boards possible. At your weight, it should not be too hard, but of course it will take some time to build the technique. Try to look for shapes with some width at the nose and tail for extra stability and low row effet (more parallel rails) to compensate for the short length. Shapes like the Tomo, Simmons, ... but not too wide and with thin rails for your 63kg to be able to put the board on the rail. In the sunova line it seems that the Skate or the Shroom fit the bill, but I have not tested them.

Also, if you fall a lot in chop, it may be that, for your 63kg, your boards have too much volume and throw you around with a huge cork effect.

GBoots,

I had the exact same conversation with Bert Berger about 18 months ago.

It's the performance rocker of the Speed that makes you come off the back of small waves when you get your foot back... also with the super pulled in tail the board wants to turn off the wave (when doing a hard turn) and without enough energy in the water the wave doesn't push you back down the face.

It's the parallel outline that makes it hard to turn from the middle. From the conversation with Bert I had a 10'4" x 28.5 x 140L SUP longboard made with a flattened tail rocker (for performance LB surfing) . This gives me push on a wave when I step back, not stall like a noserider would. It catches small waves so easily it feels like cheating (i'm about 110kg).

I have a Skate XL, the Longboard Sunova SUP and now a Creek - I have also owned a Speeed.

If you are predominately surfing 1-2ft peelers, you have 2 types of board options - short and wide (In Sunova think Skate etc) or long and thin (think Style etc) - or to put it simply something with a flat rocker. Depends on your style of surfing. Shortboard (high energy) style, go short and wide, Longboard (cruisey) style, go long and thin.

A flater rocker and hard edge along the tail will help the board sit high in the water and give you speed when there isnt much push in the waves.

I would actually recommend something like a Steeze as a perfect easy to stand on small wave 'longboard' that still rips...if not Sunova - JL Striker, Fanatic Stylemaster etc. The beauty of Sunova is it's easy to get them to adjust volume etc to suit you. Smik can do this easily also.

The 8'6" would be more than enough length at your weight for a longboard type of board. I would go custom and get it at about 90-100L. You will be surprised how much more stable it will be than the 8'8 Speeed.

I like many others was 'sold' the Speed when there was lots of hype around its launch. In the right conditions, with a good surfer on it - it rips - but for waist high mush there are much better boards, that you will have so much more fun on.

Stunning photo of James STC..