G'day all,
I'm approx 95kg 6ft 2" and I've been SUPing for a bit over 3 years now and have previously had a 10ft Naish Mana and a 9'6" Altantis Vex Profusion (149 litres). I consider myself to surf with reasonable compentence in waves up to double overhead on my Atlantis. I've been on a Laguna Bay 8'10" × 30" (approx 125litres) Dogman model since last October, while I have had my best waves ever on this board I really struggle to maintain balance on this board in all but the smoothest conditions. I can paddle several kms on my local lake without falling off but as soon as get into the surf with a bit of chop and water movement I really struggle. I'm keen to hear the experiences of others on this board.

I have never ridden one, but from the pics it looks like to have quite a pulled-in nose, especially compared to the Mana & Vex.

I had boards with an outline similar to it, and I found out that you must let the nose a bit out of the water, and try to get your front foot quite centered, away from the rails, especially the heel.

I was falling a lot until I realised that my front foot was at a 45 degree angle or more, and so the heel was quite close to the rail. So if I was out of balance, I tended to put my weight on my heels (bad! but hard to correct), and would dig the front rail. Moving my front foot a bit to the center and opening it a bit more helped me a lot.

Also, keeping a good 6" of the nose clear of the water help a lot, otherwise digging a pointy nose while paddling can throw you overboard quickly.

Hope this helps!

PS: I also found out that I am too old for the pointed noses, but that is a personal decision :-)

Nice answer colas.. great tips.

KenM....2 questions:
how often do you ride that board? and... do you avoid it on wonky days?

I am 67 and 98K... I had a month to prepare for the narrowest board of my life
8'10 x 29 @ 130 L.....

I had never ridden a 29" wide board, or anything under 145 L, so I started training.
That meant getting the smallest boards that would float me, and surf them in crap conditions.
I never really had expectations of riding waves on them... I just wanted to build the proper muscles and reflexes.

When my board came I was pleased with the results, but needed to be better, so I went out in 8" waves in 30mph winds for hours.... 6 days straight.

Results? I still fall off when it is victory at sea, but I am respectable. If it's ever calm, it will be a cake-walk
For reference.... my board is a wide nose "Tomo" style.. but narrow tail

Last week a friend borrowed my board.
I jumped on his pointy nose little board for 20 minutes. Caught 3 decent rides and only fell over once.
I asked what size his pointy little thing was:
7'10 x 31 @ 117 liters.
Holy crap.... my training worked.... a month ago, that would have been impossible for me.
It may have been 31" wide, but it was a sliver.... super thin, foiled custom.. and the 31" was a tiny bit in the middle.

The numbers:
You and your board: 125 L divided by 95 kg = 1.31
Me and my board: 130 L divided by 98 kg = 1.32
Me and pointy board: 117 L divided by 98kg = 1.19
1.3 is considered low threshold volume for intermediate skills (weight in kg's x 1.3 = lowest volume for intermediate skill level)


Moral of the story:
It takes very tuned muscles and reflexes to regain some semblance of "cat balance"
These muscles take consistent, dedicated training to build and fine tune
Occasional or light wind sessions, are not enough, in my experience...
I needed extended, painful sessions to rebuild my aging support system.

My "comfortable" boards didn't stress me enough, and I had noticed my abilities were slipping.
Struggle is good.

Bottom Line?
My entire body feels each session, not just my legs..... everything is getting better tuned... and no more tight muscles.... just a nice tired feeling.
I used to hobble, now I swagger

Select to expand quote

colas said..
I have never ridden one, but from the pics it looks like to have quite a pulled-in nose, especially compared to the Mana & Vex.

I had boards with an outline similar to it, and I found out that you must let the nose a bit out of the water, and try to get your front foot quite centered, away from the rails, especially the heel.

I was falling a lot until I realised that my front foot was at a 45 degree angle or more, and so the heel was quite close to the rail. So if I was out of balance, I tended to put my weight on my heels (bad! but hard to correct), and would dig the front rail. Moving my front foot a bit to the center and opening it a bit more helped me a lot.

Also, keeping a good 6" of the nose clear of the water help a lot, otherwise digging a pointy nose while paddling can throw you overboard quickly.

Hope this helps!

PS: I also found out that I am too old for the pointed noses, but that is a personal decision :-)

You are correct Colas regarding the pulled in nose. I have compared the outline with that of others SUPs and the nose taper does start a long way down the board, it is also quite thinned out nose and tail with a domed deck. I'll take on board your tips regarding foot position and weighting. I am grudgingly coming to the conclusion in your PS, but I have had some of my best ever SUP waves on this board and dont want to let go ........ yet.

Select to expand quote

supthecreek said..
Nice answer colas.. great tips.

KenM....2 questions:
how often do you ride that board? and... do you avoid it on wonky days?

I am 67 and 98K... I had a month to prepare for the narrowest board of my life
8'10 x 29 @ 130 L.....

I had never ridden a 29" wide board, or anything under 145 L, so I started training.
That meant getting the smallest boards that would float me, and surf them in crap conditions.
I never really had expectations of riding waves on them... I just wanted to build the proper muscles and reflexes.

When my board came I was pleased with the results, but needed to be better, so I went out in 8" waves in 30mph winds for hours.... 6 days straight.

Results? I still fall off when it is victory at sea, but I am respectable. If it's ever calm, it will be a cake-walk
For reference.... my board is a wide nose "Tomo" style.. but narrow tail

Last week a friend borrowed my board.
I jumped on his pointy nose little board for 20 minutes. Caught 3 decent rides and only fell over once.
I asked what size his pointy little thing was:
7'10 x 31 @ 117 liters.
Holy crap.... my training worked.... a month ago, that would have been impossible for me.
It may have been 31" wide, but it was a sliver.... super thin, foiled custom.. and the 31" was a tiny bit in the middle.

The numbers:
You and your board: 125 L divided by 95 kg = 1.31
Me and my board: 130 L divided by 98 kg = 1.32
Me and pointy board: 117 L divided by 98kg = 1.19
1.3 is considered low threshold volume for intermediate skills (weight in kg's x 1.3 = lowest volume for intermediate skill level)


Moral of the story:
It takes very tuned muscles and reflexes to regain some semblance of "cat balance"
These muscles take consistent, dedicated training to build and fine tune
Occasional or light wind sessions, are not enough, in my experience...
I needed extended, painful sessions to rebuild my aging support system.

My "comfortable" boards didn't stress me enough, and I had noticed my abilities were slipping.
Struggle is good.

Bottom Line?
My entire body feels each session, not just my legs..... everything is getting better tuned... and no more tight muscles.... just a nice tired feeling.
I used to hobble, now I swagger

G'day STC, thanks for your comments and congrats on your massive lifestyle change. I'm pretty consistent with my SUPing and usually get on the water for either a surf or a paddle average 4 or 5 days per week. I was using my Laguna Bay for all of these sessions but in the last couple of months I have been getting out a bit more on my Atlantis again as I found I was loosing the fun factor ..... my wave count was drastically down and my session durations were much reduced ..... and I felt like a goose falling off so much.

With regard to the weight/volume ratios I think they are a good general guide but the distribution of the volume also has a considerable influence. I have ridden a mates board .... still pointy nose but the nose taper starting further forward and with a much flatter deck, it is 8'9" × 29" and 116 litres but feels more stable than my Laguna Bay. Sometimes .... especially when I start to get tired the Laguna Bay almost feels like I am standing on a sphere ..... really unstable. I can only admire the skills of that finely honed specimen "the dogman" that can cope with a board of this design but of smaller proportions.

At the moment I am keeping the Laguna Bay as my challenge board and I tend to take it out when the surf is uncrowded or when there is no surf and I am having a long paddle. As a 58 yo I think I am in reasonable shape but peeling off a few more kgs and uping the ante on my fitness and agility certainly wouldn't do any harm. My favourite local break is off a bar in a lake entrance which means that there is usually a lot of water movement and fairly testing conditions and occasionally when on the Laguna Bay I have actually felt the welling up of a man tear of anger and frustration ....ha ha.

Briefly I would say better to trust your new physical shape rather than your new board . Once you will get your new physical envelop like I or Supthecreek did you may find the Laguna as favorite one . The Laguna is very well balanced board but as any other board need some times to challenge the sphere effect. As Colas have been saying before your topic, stability and surfing are antinomic.

Coming from a bigger rounder nose shaped board and gong down can be tricky but sometimes the dimensions of a board are right but the shape is just not for you or your conditions, I had a similar like you experience with my Hokua9.0....I,m 90kg +always using a full wetsuit and boots and when it was clean and proper wave the Hokua was was awesome, especially as a Quad ripping with full confidence!!
But when choppy or just not having my day it throw me off way too often and unluckily for me I live at a place where a lot of chop, confused waves and strong currents+some wind are rather normall. so the yearly routine was that I paded the board half a year, got pissed and planned to sell it. Went for holiday to really nice waves like Cornwall-UK or Ireland, got in love with it again so kept it and repeating the same cyclus for 2.5 year.After 2.5y I realised that although when everything came together (like at the holiday spots I paddled) the board rocks but.... A it was just not made for my conditions and B after trying some other boards that although the general dimensions and pointy outline are right, similar outlines but slightly different shapes like the Fanatic 8.10 and Starboard Pro9.0 did suit me better. TheHokua can be an awesome board...but just not for me.I changed to a 2014 Starboard Pro9.0x29x118l. On a picture the outlines and specs look rather similar but it has the pro has a flatter bottom and slightly less pointy nose + holding a bit more volume in it....an and loved it every type of conditions. No matter how worse it could be, stable as a rock and catching virt everything with it. The Pro is like the Hokua still better in the good conditions but at least allow me to ride my stuff at home as well. Mine got pressure dings after 1 week dings and as soon as the new boards where in they replaced it under waranty (after half a year I happily paddled on it) for the 2015 Starboard 8.5x29x 112l Pro :)
Even the 8.5 is for me with 13l less volume easier to paddle as the Hokua was...just because the shape compliments more my style and riding.
So after a long story my advice would be to try a board with similar sizing but slightly different and see how that goes.

I had a Dogman model off Tully and couldn't fault the balance of the board. Mine was smaller but so are my spec's (although growing.. dammit!). It was the first board I had bought that was more of your normal short board style of shape so the decreased nose width and extra rocker definitely made for a more challenging paddle but having ridden several big name production boards since, I would say the Dogman model paddled quite well. In my opinion if you were buying a board from Tully and wanted performance plus stability, you can't go past his hybrid designs (like the surftech range) as the 8'6" surftech is still my all time favourite. Obviously the shortboard shapes work well but geez you work for it. I think you made a good choice for performance KenM but like myself didn't expect to work for it so much.

John

Hi Ken,

As you know we surf the same break. I like it when you fall off so I can catch your waves Lol!! Not so when you are on the Vex. Quite the opposite then!
I remember my first days on my Vex trying to balance. Soooooo frustrating with sooooooo many swear words. Now it is a piece of cake because the balance muscles are accustomed.

Like the guys have said above on the changes you might have to make. I will give my views.

Sometimes you have to make things harder for yourself on a training run. That is if it was me trying to get better at controlling this board I would on a good day with little chop or in the lake I would over stance on the board by either standing further back so the nose points up a lot more & the tail down under the water & paddle, turn etc without falling off. Then try paddling, standing with your stance to the right & then later to the left. This would tip the board sideways either way. Try to hold these positions as long as possible without falling off. Again only do this on flat water. Choppy waters would be a waste of time & effort. By doing this your balance muscles would be overworked more so than your typical day when trying to balance & you brain & body will remember to re balance before you get to an extreme over balance.
But remember let your muscles recover for a couple of days after a training session so they can grow stronger. It may mean to surf your Vex whilst recovering.

Standing on a sphere? I believe you should be in the stance with very little roll forward or backward. So I think stand further back is the answer to that. Feels crap I know. That is why I said over do it by standing even further back whilst training so when you do go for a surf with a more central balance it should feel a lot easier.

I tried a concept that was in my head earlier this year when I introduced paddle boarding to a friend who visited from over seas who had never surfed. After 2 hours he caught his first small wave on my JP Widebody!
In the first half hour of teaching him, I put him on my smallest board the 7ft Coreban Hyper. He tried hard to balance & paddle & fell off quite often, but he did make some minor improvements. Then I put him on the JP Widebody & he was off! Paddled out of Little Lake to the waves. He felt so much more confident.
So my concept was to tune his brain & body balance for the worst so that when getting on a bigger board it would become a lot easier. Quite the opposite to progressing from big boards to small boards.

By looking at your Laguna I believe because of the narrow nose you are actually trying to stand on a board that is actually a lot shorter than its 8ft 10" with less volume because of the wasted nose dimensions for the balance aspect, more like under 8ft. Not easy at all for your height & weight.

Now apart from all that my other view is this:-
At this stage you don't want to part from this board so therefore you could use it as your HU board. Hardly Used. Like my Coreban Hyper. And use it only on the best days to help your balance practise like I do. And a great surf obviously. It makes your other boards a dream to balance on like my JP.
So therefore you might want to invest in a board more suited for nearly every day with better performance than your Vex. My choice was my Sunova Soul as you know.
Then you would have a 3 board quiver. More expense I know. But you may later decide to sell the one you no further need anyway.
At this stage I love my 3 board quiver as each one serves its purpose. But the Soul is the one that will stay.

I looked at the Sunova Sups thinking that a Soul would be perfect for you until I checked the dimensions & volumes and surprise surprise I came up with the Speeed of all things, the Acid second. The Speeed being the 8ft 10" also but has a little more volume than your Laguna & obviously spread out width over the length. The Speeed would have great performance too. But TRY BEFORE BUY if possible. But my view it would have better balance.
Sorry for the waffle on. I try to keep it short but it doesn't happen. Hopefully you will get a reply as you asked from someone with a Laguna at your height & weight.
See you on the water. Surfs up from Wednesday, best Thursday & Friday. Happy surfing!

Select to expand quote

Seajuice said..
Hi Ken,

As you know we surf the same break. I like it when you fall off so I can catch your waves Lol!! Not so when you are on the Vex. Quite the opposite then!
I remember my first days on my Vex trying to balance. Soooooo frustrating with sooooooo many swear words. Now it is a piece of cake because the balance muscles are accustomed.

Like the guys have said above on the changes you might have to make. I will give my views.

Sometimes you have to make things harder for yourself on a training run. That is if it was me trying to get better at controlling this board I would on a good day with little chop or in the lake I would over stance on the board by either standing further back so the nose points up a lot more & the tail down under the water & paddle, turn etc without falling off. Then try paddling, standing with your stance to the right & then later to the left. This would tip the board sideways either way. Try to hold these positions as long as possible without falling off. Again only do this on flat water. Choppy waters would be a waste of time & effort. By doing this your balance muscles would be overworked more so than your typical day when trying to balance & you brain & body will remember to re balance before you get to an extreme over balance.
But remember let your muscles recover for a couple of days after a training session so they can grow stronger. It may mean to surf your Vex whilst recovering.

Standing on a sphere? I believe you should be in the stance with very little roll forward or backward. So I think stand further back is the answer to that. Feels crap I know. That is why I said over do it by standing even further back whilst training so when you do go for a surf with a more central balance it should feel a lot easier.

I tried a concept that was in my head earlier this year when I introduced paddle boarding to a friend who visited from over seas who had never surfed. After 2 hours he caught his first small wave on my JP Widebody!
In the first half hour of teaching him, I put him on my smallest board the 7ft Coreban Hyper. He tried hard to balance & paddle & fell off quite often, but he did make some minor improvements. Then I put him on the JP Widebody & he was off! Paddled out of Little Lake to the waves. He felt so much more confident.
So my concept was to tune his brain & body balance for the worst so that when getting on a bigger board it would become a lot easier. Quite the opposite to progressing from big boards to small boards.

By looking at your Laguna I believe because of the narrow nose you are actually trying to stand on a board that is actually a lot shorter than its 8ft 10" with less volume because of the wasted nose dimensions for the balance aspect, more like under 8ft. Not easy at all for your height & weight.

Now apart from all that my other view is this:-
At this stage you don't want to part from this board so therefore you could use it as your HU board. Hardly Used. Like my Coreban Hyper. And use it only on the best days to help your balance practise like I do. And a great surf obviously. It makes your other boards a dream to balance on like my JP.
So therefore you might want to invest in a board more suited for nearly every day with better performance than your Vex. My choice was my Sunova Soul as you know.
Then you would have a 3 board quiver. More expense I know. But you may later decide to sell the one you no further need anyway.
At this stage I love my 3 board quiver as each one serves its purpose. But the Soul is the one that will stay.

I looked at the Sunova Sups thinking that a Soul would be perfect for you until I checked the dimensions & volumes and surprise surprise I came up with the Speeed of all things, the Acid second. The Speeed being the 8ft 10" also but has a little more volume than your Laguna & obviously spread out width over the length. The Speeed would have great performance too. But TRY BEFORE BUY if possible. But my view it would have better balance.
Sorry for the waffle on. I try to keep it short but it doesn't happen. Hopefully you will get a reply as you asked from someone with a Laguna at your height & weight.
See you on the water. Surfs up from Wednesday, best Thursday & Friday. Happy surfing!

Anyhow, you made me understood perfect to me , extensive and brief. Thanks you SeaJuice
Just one more word about Laguna Bay dogma Model, once you take off on that kind of board ...just go for it firmly

Select to expand quote

Jeroensurf said..
Coming from a bigger rounder nose shaped board and gong down can be tricky but sometimes the dimensions of a board are right but the shape is just not for you or your conditions, I had a similar like you experience with my Hokua9.0....I,m 90kg +always using a full wetsuit and boots and when it was clean and proper wave the Hokua was was awesome, especially as a Quad ripping with full confidence!!
But when choppy or just not having my day it throw me off way too often and unluckily for me I live at a place where a lot of chop, confused waves and strong currents+some wind are rather normall. so the yearly routine was that I paded the board half a year, got pissed and planned to sell it. Went for holiday to really nice waves like Cornwall-UK or Ireland, got in love with it again so kept it and repeating the same cyclus for 2.5 year.After 2.5y I realised that although when everything came together (like at the holiday spots I paddled) the board rocks but.... A it was just not made for my conditions and B after trying some other boards that although the general dimensions and pointy outline are right, similar outlines but slightly different shapes like the Fanatic 8.10 and Starboard Pro9.0 did suit me better. TheHokua can be an awesome board...but just not for me.I changed to a 2014 Starboard Pro9.0x29x118l. On a picture the outlines and specs look rather similar but it has the pro has a flatter bottom and slightly less pointy nose + holding a bit more volume in it....an and loved it every type of conditions. No matter how worse it could be, stable as a rock and catching virt everything with it. The Pro is like the Hokua still better in the good conditions but at least allow me to ride my stuff at home as well. Mine got pressure dings after 1 week dings and as soon as the new boards where in they replaced it under waranty (after half a year I happily paddled on it) for the 2015 Starboard 8.5x29x 112l Pro :)
Even the 8.5 is for me with 13l less volume easier to paddle as the Hokua was...just because the shape compliments more my style and riding.
So after a long story my advice would be to try a board with similar sizing but slightly different and see how that goes.

Your Hokua experience sounds similar to my Laguna Bay Dogman experience. As it happens a friend of mine has just bought himself an 8' Starboard pro and loves it. He commented that it was very stable for its dimensions and he really loves how it performs. I am now looking around for a board with a bit more stability, it would be good to try the 9' Starboard pro but I think it might be a bit light on in litres for me.

I suggest looking into both the JP & Fanatic 9'2". Both are more stable than the 9'0 Starby and surf just as good. I've owned all 3 and currently ride the Fanatic.

Select to expand quote

jaydub1973 said..
I had a Dogman model off Tully and couldn't fault the balance of the board. Mine was smaller but so are my spec's (although growing.. dammit!). It was the first board I had bought that was more of your normal short board style of shape so the decreased nose width and extra rocker definitely made for a more challenging paddle but having ridden several big name production boards since, I would say the Dogman model paddled quite well. In my opinion if you were buying a board from Tully and wanted performance plus stability, you can't go past his hybrid designs (like the surftech range) as the 8'6" surftech is still my all time favourite. Obviously the shortboard shapes work well but geez you work for it. I think you made a good choice for performance KenM but like myself didn't expect to work for it so much.

John

G'day John, The performance of the Dogman model on a wave is sensational, as said earlier I have had my best ever SUP waves on it. It's just standing out the back, positioning and turning quickly to take off that I struggle with. I have no doubt that other guys of my age dimensions with better balance and coordination skills would handle this board fine, but I also know another accomplished SUPer from down here (younger and a bit heavier than me) that also struggles on his dogman model. I sort of ended up with the Dogman model by accident. When I was interested in buying a Laguna Bay I tried out a friends Laguna Bay custom of slightly narrower dimensions ... apparently that was the "performance model". I increased the width slightly to give myself a small comfort margin. I ordered the board thinking I was getting a slightly wider version of the board that I had tried but unknown to me apparently the model had changed a bit to be the more pulled in at the nose Dogman model. I didn't really notice this until months later when the friend whose board I originally tried compared the two models and noticed the difference. At the moment I'm still using the board to challenge myself in the appropriate conditions. Do you still have your Dogman model?

Select to expand quote

Seajuice said..
Hi Ken,

As you know we surf the same break. I like it when you fall off so I can catch your waves Lol!! Not so when you are on the Vex. Quite the opposite then!
I remember my first days on my Vex trying to balance. Soooooo frustrating with sooooooo many swear words. Now it is a piece of cake because the balance muscles are accustomed.

Like the guys have said above on the changes you might have to make. I will give my views.

Sometimes you have to make things harder for yourself on a training run. That is if it was me trying to get better at controlling this board I would on a good day with little chop or in the lake I would over stance on the board by either standing further back so the nose points up a lot more & the tail down under the water & paddle, turn etc without falling off. Then try paddling, standing with your stance to the right & then later to the left. This would tip the board sideways either way. Try to hold these positions as long as possible without falling off. Again only do this on flat water. Choppy waters would be a waste of time & effort. By doing this your balance muscles would be overworked more so than your typical day when trying to balance & you brain & body will remember to re balance before you get to an extreme over balance.
But remember let your muscles recover for a couple of days after a training session so they can grow stronger. It may mean to surf your Vex whilst recovering.

Standing on a sphere? I believe you should be in the stance with very little roll forward or backward. So I think stand further back is the answer to that. Feels crap I know. That is why I said over do it by standing even further back whilst training so when you do go for a surf with a more central balance it should feel a lot easier.

I tried a concept that was in my head earlier this year when I introduced paddle boarding to a friend who visited from over seas who had never surfed. After 2 hours he caught his first small wave on my JP Widebody!
In the first half hour of teaching him, I put him on my smallest board the 7ft Coreban Hyper. He tried hard to balance & paddle & fell off quite often, but he did make some minor improvements. Then I put him on the JP Widebody & he was off! Paddled out of Little Lake to the waves. He felt so much more confident.
So my concept was to tune his brain & body balance for the worst so that when getting on a bigger board it would become a lot easier. Quite the opposite to progressing from big boards to small boards.

By looking at your Laguna I believe because of the narrow nose you are actually trying to stand on a board that is actually a lot shorter than its 8ft 10" with less volume because of the wasted nose dimensions for the balance aspect, more like under 8ft. Not easy at all for your height & weight.

Now apart from all that my other view is this:-
At this stage you don't want to part from this board so therefore you could use it as your HU board. Hardly Used. Like my Coreban Hyper. And use it only on the best days to help your balance practise like I do. And a great surf obviously. It makes your other boards a dream to balance on like my JP.
So therefore you might want to invest in a board more suited for nearly every day with better performance than your Vex. My choice was my Sunova Soul as you know.
Then you would have a 3 board quiver. More expense I know. But you may later decide to sell the one you no further need anyway.
At this stage I love my 3 board quiver as each one serves its purpose. But the Soul is the one that will stay.

I looked at the Sunova Sups thinking that a Soul would be perfect for you until I checked the dimensions & volumes and surprise surprise I came up with the Speeed of all things, the Acid second. The Speeed being the 8ft 10" also but has a little more volume than your Laguna & obviously spread out width over the length. The Speeed would have great performance too. But TRY BEFORE BUY if possible. But my view it would have better balance.
Sorry for the waffle on. I try to keep it short but it doesn't happen. Hopefully you will get a reply as you asked from someone with a Laguna at your height & weight.
See you on the water. Surfs up from Wednesday, best Thursday & Friday. Happy surfing!

G'day Will,
You have witnessed my pain..... ha ha. I haven't given up on the Laguna Bay just yet and intend to follow up some of the tips here to gain some improvement. As you and some of the other guys have suggested I am also looking around for another board with a better balance (for me) between comfort and performance. The Sunova Speeed is one of those options. You're right about try before you buy ..... once bitten twice shy as they say!

Select to expand quote

Zeusman said..
I suggest looking into both the JP & Fanatic 9'2". Both are more stable than the 9'0 Starby and surf just as good. I've owned all 3 and currently ride the Fanatic.

Yeah Zeusman, those two boards stack up as likely options .... but they certainly don't miss the hip pocket. I might be able to pick something up second hand if I look around a bit.

If you try your mates 8ft Starby & stay up on it better than your Laguna then maybe the 9ft is a goer. You could try both my JP & Soul when we meet next to get a comparison
I am not pushing the Sunovas but I think they are a great board at a low price & great performers too.
All in all it is the shape, style, colours & make of a good performer that one will accept in the end.
Obviously the narrow nose isn't doing any justice & picking a good performance board with a wider nose area with a little more volume but keeping the width the same then I think it would be a confident satisfactory buy. Maybe even another Laguna. Either way I am sure you will make a good decision.

Hi Ken

I feel your pain buddy.
Just spent over 3 months out of the water with an injured ankle .
Stacked on 12kg.
N im in serious struggle street on my 95L dogman model boards while im rocking over 100kg.
(Now just smashed up my knee n im looking at more time on the couch)

Usually ill only ride my 8'2 dogman model sup's when it pumping . (Which is what it is designed for.)
If its really small and clean, ill ride a 10'2 longboard styled sup n if its junky ill usually just jump on a 7'10 shorter hybrid nose sup shape.... All tully st john custom shapes.

But it is damn hard to put my board back in its cover to swap to another board that may better suit the conditions. N sacrifice being able to shred like a madman possessed on my 8'2.

Select to expand quote

KenM said...

jaydub1973 said..
I had a Dogman model off Tully and couldn't fault the balance of the board. Mine was smaller but so are my spec's (although growing.. dammit!). It was the first board I had bought that was more of your normal short board style of shape so the decreased nose width and extra rocker definitely made for a more challenging paddle but having ridden several big name production boards since, I would say the Dogman model paddled quite well. In my opinion if you were buying a board from Tully and wanted performance plus stability, you can't go past his hybrid designs (like the surftech range) as the 8'6" surftech is still my all time favourite. Obviously the shortboard shapes work well but geez you work for it. I think you made a good choice for performance KenM but like myself didn't expect to work for it so much.

John

G'day John, The performance of the Dogman model on a wave is sensational, as said earlier I have had my best ever SUP waves on it. It's just standing out the back, positioning and turning quickly to take off that I struggle with. I have no doubt that other guys of my age dimensions with better balance and coordination skills would handle this board fine, but I also know another accomplished SUPer from down here (younger and a bit heavier than me) that also struggles on his dogman model. I sort of ended up with the Dogman model by accident. When I was interested in buying a Laguna Bay I tried out a friends Laguna Bay custom of slightly narrower dimensions ... apparently that was the "performance model". I increased the width slightly to give myself a small comfort margin. I ordered the board thinking I was getting a slightly wider version of the board that I had tried but unknown to me apparently the model had changed a bit to be the more pulled in at the nose Dogman model. I didn't really notice this until months later when the friend whose board I originally tried compared the two models and noticed the difference. At the moment I'm still using the board to challenge myself in the appropriate conditions. Do you still have your Dogman model?

Hi ken.

Does your board outline look like this????


Or this?????

Think it is more like the 2nd one Dogman ...... what do you reckon?

Thats the latest high performance model "blown up version"
Narrow nose n the rounded square tail.

Loads of drive off the bottom and crazy loose off the top.




Over the last few years ive been playing around with 3 different nose shapes and 3 different tail shapes.
Trying out ways to mix n match them into combinations, so they will work in different wave types n sizes on offer, to come up with an ideal board for an ideal situation.
All about trying to work out what "i like" from each boards own individual characteristics that make it "GO" strip it all down and build my quiver from there.

Front end nose shapes:

1)High Performance (non catching during steep drops n turns)
2)Standard Performance ( increased stability with added surface area)
3)Hybrid Performance (nose ridable allows for reduced board length)

Rear end tail shapes.
1)Rounded Square (ultra loose)
2)Swallow (powerful hold in larger waves)
3)Round (all rounder great in fat waves)


Each individual aspect of a board will have some sort of good merrits and some very bad merrits ... And work great in some conditions but suck @rse in other conditions.

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KenM said...




Think it is more like the 2nd one Dogman ...... what do you reckon?

High Performance Nose
Rounded Square Tail

Low volume in the nose and a lot less volume in the tail

Very hard work

I watched grand master lacey lane 30kg lighter than me start out struggling to paddle on mine while in the flatwater at currumbin cr.

I tend to stand with my feet really wide apart (forward n back diagonally across the deck) in a surf like stance.
my front toes would be nearly off the front of your deck pad paddling for a wave

Love the disco lights spray job

Absolutely agree with regard to the performance level of this board...... I've launched into a some steep pits with a bit of a hail Mary but have been astounded at the ease I can get through sections and crank it back down off the top ..... but, with some chop, backwash and water movement (which are the predominate conditions at my local) I am out the back falling like autumn leaves and feeling like a real goose. I might have to expand the quiver to contain something a just a little more mellow.

Good luck with those injuries mate ..... I had about 3 weeks out of the water with a crook back a month ago no fun there...... you'll have to lock away those doggie treats or Tully will have whip up a new upsized quiver for you!

Select to expand quote

tha dogman said..


High Performance Nose
Rounded Square Tail

Low volume in the nose and a lot less volume in the tail

Very hard work

I watched grand master lacey lane 30kg lighter than me start out struggling to paddle on mine while in the flatwater at currumbin cr.

I tend to stand with my feet really wide apart (forward n back diagonally across the deck) in a surf like stance.
my front toes would be nearly off the front of your deck pad paddling for a wave

Love the disco lights spray job

Yeah I've been paddling with a slight diagonal stance but will try to open it up a bit more .... experiment a bit. The spray job does attract a bit of attention .... most of it positive ..... a few of my smart @rse mates were questioning my sexuality ... ha ha

Select to expand quote

KenM said...
Absolutely agree with regard to the performance level of this board...... I've launched into a some steep pits with a bit of a hail Mary but have been astounded at the ease I can get through sections and crank it back down off the top ..... but, with some chop, backwash and water movement (which are the predominate conditions at my local) I am out the back falling like autumn leaves and feeling like a real goose. I might have to expand the quiver to contain something a just a little more mellow.

Good luck with those injuries mate ..... I had about 3 weeks out of the water with a crook back a month ago no fun there...... you'll have to lock away those doggie treats or Tully will have whip up a new upsized quiver for you!

Yep a few new boards sounds about right!!!! Lol

Hey Ken,

Sold the Doggy model about a year ago now and since riding some production shortboard style SUP's I would say the Doggy was one of the better paddlers (obviously going to a low volume nose with more rocker you have to take that into consideration) and for the size I ordered, was probably the best for surfing. I still like the hybrid style as I can be more aggressive with my paddling due to the increased balance whilst still enjoy surfing with the advantage of a few cheater 5's and Helicopter attempts. When you go from the hybrid to the Doggy the best part is freeing up the board when in the lip. Bugger, I am now starting to miss her now!!
Stick with it Ken and if you can afford a few boards as a quiver then for short board surfing style I don't think you will find any better.

John

Wow Dogman,

That board on the left looks awesome. I may have to plagiarise that spray on my next one although the resin bleeds Tully is doing look pretty sick too. I wish I wasn't so heavy footed as I need the full deck grip which covers up half the art work. Probably help if my wife didn't work at a bakery. ha ha

John

Select to expand quote

KenM said...

tha dogman said..


High Performance Nose
Rounded Square Tail

Low volume in the nose and a lot less volume in the tail

Very hard work

I watched grand master lacey lane 30kg lighter than me start out struggling to paddle on mine while in the flatwater at currumbin cr.

I tend to stand with my feet really wide apart (forward n back diagonally across the deck) in a surf like stance.
my front toes would be nearly off the front of your deck pad paddling for a wave

Love the disco lights spray job

Yeah I've been paddling with a slight diagonal stance but will try to open it up a bit more .... experiment a bit. The spray job does attract a bit of attention .... most of it positive ..... a few of my smart @rse mates were questioning my sexuality ... ha ha

Heres a shot of my paddling foot positioning.

As i paddle hard for a wave i will move forward slightly to push the board over the ledge.

Select to expand quote

tha dogman said..

KenM said...

tha dogman said..


High Performance Nose
Rounded Square Tail

Low volume in the nose and a lot less volume in the tail

Very hard work

I watched grand master lacey lane 30kg lighter than me start out struggling to paddle on mine while in the flatwater at currumbin cr.

I tend to stand with my feet really wide apart (forward n back diagonally across the deck) in a surf like stance.
my front toes would be nearly off the front of your deck pad paddling for a wave

Love the disco lights spray job

Yeah I've been paddling with a slight diagonal stance but will try to open it up a bit more .... experiment a bit. The spray job does attract a bit of attention .... most of it positive ..... a few of my smart @rse mates were questioning my sexuality ... ha ha

Heres a shot of my paddling foot positioning.

As i paddle hard for a wave i will move forward slightly to push the board over the ledge.

Yeah I can see what you mean ...... your stance is more extended than mine longitudinally and probably a bit narrower laterally. My body is feeling tired and sore just looking at the dimensions of your board! Ok thanks for that Dogman, I can see I've got work to do.

Top - standard nose/ swallow tail
Bottom - standard nose/rounded butt tail



Left - super hybrid nose / mutant tunnel rat swallow tail
Middle - high performance nose / rounded square tail
Right - hybrid nose / swallow tail

Select to expand quote

KenM said...

tha dogman said..

KenM said...

tha dogman said..


High Performance Nose
Rounded Square Tail

Low volume in the nose and a lot less volume in the tail

Very hard work

I watched grand master lacey lane 30kg lighter than me start out struggling to paddle on mine while in the flatwater at currumbin cr.

I tend to stand with my feet really wide apart (forward n back diagonally across the deck) in a surf like stance.
my front toes would be nearly off the front of your deck pad paddling for a wave

Love the disco lights spray job

Yeah I've been paddling with a slight diagonal stance but will try to open it up a bit more .... experiment a bit. The spray job does attract a bit of attention .... most of it positive ..... a few of my smart @rse mates were questioning my sexuality ... ha ha

Heres a shot of my paddling foot positioning.

As i paddle hard for a wave i will move forward slightly to push the board over the ledge.

Yeah I can see what you mean ...... your stance is more extended than mine longitudinally and probably a bit narrower laterally. My body is feeling tired and sore just looking at the dimensions of your board! Ok thanks for that Dogman, I can see I've got work to do.

That little bit more stretch, makes a lot of difference.

Select to expand quote

tha dogman said..



Top - standard nose/ swallow tail
Bottom - standard nose/rounded butt tail

tha dogman said..



Top - standard nose/ swallow tail
Bottom - standard nose/rounded butt tail



Left - super hybrid nose / mutant tunnel rat swallow tail
Middle - high performance nose / rounded square tail
Right - hybrid nose / swallow tail

Left - super hybrid nose / mutant tunnel rat swallow tail
Middle - high performance nose / rounded square tail
Right - hybrid nose / swallow tail

Seeing the different options together makes it easy to see the different levels of stability and performance ..... it would be interesting to try a few different options at around the same volume as my board (about 125 litres I think) to feel the difference. I wasn't aware that these options existed when I ordered my board. I guess that is the difficulty of dealing from a distance and not being able to try before you buy. As I said my board is fantastic but just a bit specialised (at my present ability level) for a one board quiver.