colas said..

JB said..
Thought I need to try understand Colas' forward mast theory so I'm going to plant a foil at 36" on an X32 7'10"

"Colas theory" has nothing to do with the distance to the tail... it is IRRELEVANT.

What is relevant is the position of the foil relative to the feet.
And for SUPing, the position of the feet relative to the handle so that you can paddle and foil with the same foil position.

Putting the foil at the same distance from the rear on a 7'10" as it is on my 8'9" would be utterly stupid. But they should be about the same distance from the handle in each case.

I should NEVER have answered the the query about the distance from the tail... I guess we can adapt the old chinese proverb to "When the wise shows the handle, the fool looks at the tail"

Hi there, I'm the new guy.
I'm really interested in his new sport and I super stoked to get my own foil. Except there's so much contradicting information floating about, I'm not sure. Do I follow the recommendations from the manufacturer? I mean, they would know right? Just asking because I want to get the box in the right spot first go, I would be devastated to have wrecked 1 of my boards and have no chance of re-sale because of a bum-steer from some kook.

I guess the old Confuserism is apt here, " When skinny man walks through skinny airport door he sure'll going to Bangkok"

You seem to know a lot about foils. Where do you get your information? Do you have much experience riding them? Vids? I'd love to see you in action.

colas said..

Elizondo said..
You seem to know a lot about foils.

I have a first hand, but limited (I used only one brand of foil, and never foiled before) experience. But I like to analyze things - I am an engineer - and write about it :-). You can read my reports (with videos) at the start of the thread: www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/Stand-Up-Paddle/SUP/SUP-foiling--my-first-steps-?page=1

I get my information by reading and watching what I can find on the web, and discussing with the Gong shaper, Patrice Guenole, that has an extensive experience in many domains, including foiling, and some friends that took up foiling (but they all had kitefoiling experience). I try to compare these different opinions with my own experience. I have been foiling for 25 sessions now. I do not know your age, but younger people will definitely progress faster than me :-)

Oh, I see... you must have pretty thick skin. Although I can understand your stoke for foiling, I have it too, but maybe you shouldn't post video's of yourself struggling to foil and then act like an expert and tell people how to do it. It's not a good look. My bubble has been burst.

I guess that the old chinese proverb can be adapted here," Those that can, do. Those that cannot, Teach ".

word salad

colas said..

JB said..
JB - Masts back all the way

And if you want to play this game... I raise to... "straps!"

Straps are great for Wind Foiling. I see no need for straps on a SUP/Surf Foil until I'm ready for giant waves or arials (which I don't see being any time soon).

My opinion on straps - They alloy you to hold on a little longer whilst doing the wrong thing! without straps you're off and you hop back onto your board with the lesson that you did something wrong. And so from this you learn good technique and skills. I made kitefoiling so much harder then it needed to be by using the straps to try and gain control rather than have control. Once you become one with your foil and glide together, you feel totally comfortable and in sync.

Plus I value my ankles too much.

Ride safe,

JB

This is from the GoFoil site on where to mount your Tuttle box it's pretty well universally used. Colas maybe you could post something similar based on your Gong foils to get a comparison to simplify your explanations.

Also so how would you answer this question. "Hi Colas I live in Australia and just purchased a Gong Hellvator on line. I'm getting a Custom Sup foil board made 7-10 x 29 and I want to know where to put my Tuttle box in before the board is glassed ?".... (I get this question 10 times a week)

Elizondo said..

Piros said..
"Hi Colas I live in Australia and just purchased a Gong Hellvator on line. I'm getting a Custom Sup foil board made 7-10 x 29 and I want to know where to put my Tuttle box in before the board is glassed ?".... (I get this question 10 times a week)

I don't know why you ask this guy. You'd be better off asking his buddy Patrice. Get it from the horse's mouth instead of the other end.

LMFAO!!

Hi Colas, that's a very interesting video, is it Bruno from 2010 ?
very interesting foil, looks to be thin and flat plate, no tip angle and 2 Knubster fins on the front foil. Do you see that too ?

Here is some of the waves from this morning's session on the Naish Hokua X32 7'10" I Foil Mounted yesterday.

This board really surprised me in how well it foiled. I mean I knew it would work and be reasonably good, but never thought it would paddle so fast and easily onto waves/swells (as you'll see it's barley breaking). This has proven to be a really good combo. Look at how few strokes it takes to get on these runs.

Board - 2015 Naish Hokua X32 7'10" GT.
Foil - 2018 Naish Thrust Surf Large.
Mount - Foil Mount Australia.
Mast position - 20" from the tail to the back of the mast.
Location - Collaroy Beach.
Conditions - Very small and hardly breaking. Mainly riding swells.

Enjoy,


Ride safe,

JB

cantSUPenough said..
That's impressive JB! So you just need to get a bit of speed up, a few pumps maybe, and you are up and running. From memory you are >90kg so that board would be grossly undersized for you normally. Does the foil make it more stable when paddling back out to the line-up and waiting out the back?

So when will someone offer "getting started" packages - some time behind a boat/jetski to master the foil? I want to give it a go!

Your memory is flattering, I am actually 95kg. The X32 7'10" is 120ltrs, so plenty there to float me, it's actually really stable. The foil is a double edged sword when it comes to adding taking stability. In one hand it adds quite a bit as its like a giant fin slowing down your sideways motions, but then it also reacts to any water moving past it, so if there rips, current, or surging water it will work against you.

Yes, as you likely saw, when the actual wave was there I am only needing really 3 or 4 strokes then I pump. Pumping is far more efficient then paddling and heaps more powerful. I was actually pretty surprised I got so many waves, when I arrived at the beach I nearly didn't go out as it was so small and not breaking (glad I did, it was heaps of fun).

Getting started packages are around. I know the Zu Boardsports have a Foiling lesson/experience that will get you up and teach you the basics. You can get that exact board I was riding for $1,600.00. The foil mounts (also sold by The Zu) are about $270, or to get a repairer to glass boxes in will be anywhere from $500 and up depending on who and how they are doing it (make sure they know what they are doing). The Foil's land in about 2-3 weeks. The Large Surf Thrust that I was using is $1,799.00. There is only 1 or 2 left available, so I would be quick to drop a deposit ASAP.

Warning - Once you get this dialed you will be addicted! This is way too much fun. I now have 2 foiling SUP's, 2 x Prone Surf Foilboards and a Wind Foil Board - and I want more! Can't foil enough .

Enjoy,

Ride safe,

JB

surffoils said..
Hi Colas, that's a very interesting video, is it Bruno from 2010 ?

Yes, it is Bruno.
He only sailboards (no kiting), so his first experiments were with the thin, sharp foils with long masts used in windsurfing at the time and towed in. I cannot imagine the learning curve... total respect for the guy.

His main interest at the time was promoting windfoiling, though. I guess he tought SUP foiling was too hard for it to have a market big enough for starting a production line?

You can try to to look around for more info on youtube, but alas Bruno doesn't like to write a lot, so there are not a lot of places to find his insights. I never paid attention to the knubsters/winglets before, well spotted!

There is also his blog, with a lot of photos: tendance-innovation.blogspot.fr/
but he switched to instagram for some time now: www.instagram.com/brunoandref76/
Or you can ask him questions directly. He is quite active on the sealion forum: http://www.ahd-boards.com/forum/index.php

cantSUPenough said..
I don't know who you really are

These accusation you make about me are outrages. The few comment's I have made aren't disrespectful or uncalled for, they are accurate. By using your own logic it doesn't matter how many post I make, it's the quality that matters. I've read through most of the topic's but instead of taking it all for gospel I make my own assessments on their validity and call them as I see them, which is my right. I might be new to the breeze but I wasn't born yesterday.

Since you brought it up and are throwing accusations about. Using your powers of deduction, who do you think this character is? I have read through all of this guys post's and I noticed it straight away. I would allege that he is closely related to the business that he promotes either financially or otherwise, despite his disclaimer. All is not as it seems. But I don't have the super sleuth skills that you process.

You're right, you don't know who I am. But thats all you got right.

I am Elizondo, I have nothing to prove to you and I stand by my comments.

#post16

Elizondo said..

cantSUPenough said..
I don't know who you really are

These accusation you make about me are outrages. The few comment's I have made aren't disrespectful or uncalled for, they are accurate. By using your own logic it doesn't matter how many post I make, it's the quality that matters. I've read through most of the topic's but instead of taking it all for gospel I make my own assessments on their validity and call them as I see them, which is my right. I might be new to the breeze but I wasn't born yesterday.

Since you brought it up and are throwing accusations about. Using your powers of deduction, who do you think this character is? I have read through all of this guys post's and I noticed it straight away. I would allege that he is closely related to the business that he promotes either financially or otherwise, despite his disclaimer. All is not as it seems. But I don't have the super sleuth skills that you process.

You're right, you don't know who I am. But thats all you got right.

I am Elizondo, I have nothing to prove to you and I stand by my comments.

#post16

Colas has made his relationship with Gong quite clear from day one, and he often reminds people of that relationship.
Who do I think you are? Colas' evil half brother Pepsi.
I stand by my comments.

cantSUPenough said..

JB said..

Warning - Once you get this dialed you will be addicted! This is way too much fun. I now have 2 foiling SUP's, 2 x Prone Surf Foilboards and a Wind Foil Board - and I want more! Can't foil enough .

Enjoy,

Ride safe,

JB

Sounds great! I do have a raptor I would like to use, but maybe I should try the X32 (I have an 8'8 X32 but it would be too big). Glad to hear they are running lessons - I would rather not flounder about if I can avoid it.

My understanding is that controlling a foil board on a wave is quite different to a surf sup - do you struggle at all when you get back on a normal surf sup?

Initially I would have said go the Raptor 100%, but after today, I am pretty impressed with the X32. I still think I would go in favour of the Raptor based on swing weight, as the 8'8" is getting a little long, but this said, depending on the conditions you are riding in and weight may be a consideration. I guess this is the beauty of the Foil Mount, you could mount the one you're most open to dedicating to foiling and if it doesn't meet expectations, then I believe you can remove the mount. Alternatively if you get the boxes done properly, you won't really notice it SUPing std.

Enjoy the glide,

JB

Who do I think you are? Colas' evil half brother Pepsi.
I stand by my comments.

Wow! You really toned down your stance from your first unfounded accusations.
I see what you tried to do there...with a play on words. To suggest I'm evil for responding to your lies about my identity just because I'm the new guy is a bit low. Makes you look like the lick up, kick down kinda guy. I prefer water anyway, it's what my thirst craves. You should try it, might calm your paranoia.
But if thats as close as an apology as you can muster...