Yay. Just received my Naish Wingsurfer in quick time from Luke of Ocean Addicts. And it comes with an air pump, backpack
& spare valve & valve tool. Thanks Luke.

I decided to give it a go with paddleboard & no foil. My first time ever using a sail so wanted to experiance how it all works without a foil making it more complicated.
Got out early due to wind predicted to hit up to 60kph.
So first thing in the morning grabbed my Wingsurfer & JP Widebody paddleboard.

I was surprised to turn up at my local saltwater lagoon with no wind so just paddled around until the breeze picked up.
I found it easy to jump onto the board holding the front of the wing in shallow water. Not possible if a foil attached.

Sailing down wind was easy but upwind was impossible. Just could not get back to my starting point. So had to walk back. Holding the wing by its nose was easy. But it wasn't as still as claimed & it did wonder a bit.

When the wind picked up around 15kph I found it better to sail & feel it working. Was easy to hold & easy on my arms & shoulders. But again difficult to sail upwind no matter what I tried & found myself again walking back to start again.

Switch foot was a strange feeling so went back to my normal surf stance.

Wind picked up to about 20 to 30 kph & I found this to be the best.
I managed a few runs only slightly upwind but eventually ended up downwind again.

Everytime time I tried upwind the wing would want to invert itself digging its wing tip into the water & pushing towards my feet forcing me to struggle with the wing to get it back to head high. Frustrating when you recover & find yourself going downwind again!

So it this stage I found the wing easy on the body & could hold it for about 2 hours before feeling it in my shoulders.
Also found that a good constant wind helps compared to gusts. And a good constant wind I am hoping will help to make my elusive attempt to go upwind.

Maybe being up on a foil will fix that. Or am I missing something?

I would advise anyone trying this for the first time to ensure their downwind runs lead to a safe shoreline & not open waters as you would have a long paddle back or need a rescue.

I found it very hard to head up wind on my 9'8 longboard sup but fine on my 6'9 foil board with foil. Think you need some big fins or a daggerboard without the foil.

Thanks for the heads up! I'm planning on taking the Slingwing for a ride on a paddleboard first, and with this I'll just put the daggerboard in from the start :)

Good to know it is more difficult to head upwind with a SUP & easier with foil because that's what I'm planning to do anyway.
My converted SUP for foiling has the slot for centre fin so might try that with a 9 inch fin without the foil & see how that goes. I'm more optimistic now.

Yes I had to do a walk and swim of shame on my SUP when I was swept downwind. So far have avoided both on my foil board. I can see the benefit of carrying a paddle with the Naish. It's one of the drawbacks of the Duotone.

Same experience with SUP. Have had 2 attempts with SUP foil, only very briefly up on foil and ended up way downwind.

This video provides some tips that may be useful for next try:
I am also going to bust out the larger sup foil, hard to stand on the small one in the chop (was easier to start on knees then jump up once moving).

Keeping wing tip out of water: in early attempts I had wing sideways, like a windsurfer, with the wing tip in the water or on the board. But I think you want the wing to be more overhead rather than sideways, and then tilted roughly 45 degrees. This also made it way easier on the arms.

All in all, this is a little harder than I thought / had hoped for. Figured I'd be ripping first try. But I will say that when the wind picks up, it feels better ... at 15kt, I moved hands down the strut further, and pulling in felt like sheeting in a windsurfer. I think that's where the fun starts.

Duotone: maybe you could tie a paddle to the boom? For initial SUP attempts, I paddled back prone with wing on the water.

Some great info on that vid that I have not seen elsewhere. I liked the harness idea.

Yeah, I saw that video yesterday. Been watching quite a few for ideas. Winds blowing in excess of 50kph today so might stay indoors instead of flying. Lol.

Select to expand quote

Seajuice said..
Yeah, I saw that video yesterday. Been watching quite a few for ideas. Winds blowing in excess of 50kph today so might stay indoors instead of flying. Lol.

50kph = 27 kts....get out there!

Ha ha! Just checked the weather site (BOM) & it says anywhere from 30kph to 76kph. Last night it hit 100kph. So not getting caught out in that!

Enjoying reading people's posts and experiences. I've had my Gong 5m (similar to Naish) out 4 times since it arrived. I don't foil but hopefully would like to with the wing. As my surf sups are small I bought a used 10'6 JP to learn how to cruise with the wing. As with other people I havnt quite worked out how to stay upwind. I have had alot of fun learning though!! I have been walking the board out in the water as far as I can, I go upwind (ish) away from the beach at a 45 degree angle and then turn to go back to my starting point but I will have slipped 20m back.
Also I went out in 30 knots onshore ocean when only good kiters or windsurfers where out and I didn't feel in danger or a hazard to them. It was hard work due to having to walk it back out but I flew very fast, full surf stance giggling like a girl!! I also lined a few turns up with a fat wave which I took just as the wing engaged and it was like hitting a turbo button!! I think its pretty unique compared to wind or kitesurfing that as a complete beginner you can get out in 30 knots!!

Wing on friends!!!

This is an interesting topic "upwind".

I guess the big thing here that many sailors overlook is that the upwind thing, but in all sports "upwind" is actually a milestone, and takes some learning. The Wing Surfer is definitely easier to sail upwind than a windsurfer and kite for the comparable craft, but yes a centre/dagger board or centre fin will help tremendously.

Personally I have no issues Winging upwind on a SUP, here's an old one from one of my first goes on the Wing Surfer back in April. I was riding the Nalu Pro 10' x 27" @115ltrs. A few tacks up wind, then a fun run back. The app thinks it was 15kn, but it definitely wasn't. No way any kiters or windsurfer would have been going in that. I'd say more like 8kn.


It is all just practice, and you will get better and better as you get used to it.

Enjoy the ride, it's insane where the Wings will take us.

Regards,

JB

Yeah. This morning wind was light to medium at home. So had to get on the lake to practise my Wingsurfer.
I used my paddleboard again with larger singlefin.
Just as I walked down to the water it blew harder & the 65kph gusts blew my head off! Was too hesitant to sail at first so stood on shore getting the feel of the sail. Then finally got on the water when it eased a bit. But not for long. And I nearly turned into a hang glider when the gust hit me. Lol! Fell in once & after one sail downwind called it quits. Didn't want to walk upwind fighting my board.

At the start I was tacking upwind a little, but after turning onto my backhand without switchfooting I found it harder due to fighting the sail wingtip from digging in & ended up downwind.

Also I found that My speed slowed to nearly a halt the more I go into the wind which obviously I have to go downnwind again. So will have to keep my angle right.
I also found that I have to keep the wingsurfer behind my body more when wishing to go upwind. It helps to point my board upwind.

Oh well. Will have to wait for a day with a good constant 15 to 20 knot winds without the crazy gusts. Looking forward to the summer winds.

Select to expand quote

Seajuice said..
Yeah. This morning wind was light to medium at home. So had to get on the lake to practise my Wingsurfer.
I used my paddleboard again with larger singlefin.
Just as I walked down to the water it blew harder & the 65kph gusts blew my head off! Was too hesitant to sail at first so stood on shore getting the feel of the sail. Then finally got on the water when it eased a bit. But not for long. And I nearly turned into a hang glider when the gust hit me. Lol! Fell in once & after one sail downwind called it quits. Didn't want to walk upwind fighting my board.

At the start I was tacking upwind a little, but after turning onto my backhand without switchfooting I found it harder due to fighting the sail wingtip from digging in & ended up downwind.

Also I found that My speed slowed to nearly a halt the more I go into the wind which obviously I have to go downnwind again. So will have to keep my angle right.
I also found that I have to keep the wingsurfer behind my body more when wishing to go upwind. It helps to point my board upwind.

Oh well. Will have to wait for a day with a good constant 15 to 20 knot winds without the crazy gusts. Looking forward to the summer winds.

Sounds like your learning to sail upwind Seajuice

A few key tips.
Understand that the angle of the wing (or the pitch) is controlled primarily by the height of your back hand.

It is best to have your front out straight in front of you and allow it to fly at an upwards angle towards to wing so your hand ends up roughly in front of your face/eyes.

When you move your back arm lower (towards to the water/land), the Wing will fly itself up into a horizontal plane and over your head. When you move your arm upwards (towards to sky) the wing will fly down and into a vertical plane towards the water. These inputs are seperate to sheeting, and are inputs you will use the entire time you are flying. It is very common at first for people to try and hold both hands parallel which usually ends up with the wing rotating down onto a vertical plane and resulting in the wing hitting the water (once the wings hits the water, it will all go south, and you will go down wind. To correct this quickly, lower your back hand position towards the water quite aggressively and the wing will fly back up and over your head). So try fly with your arms (or the strut/boom) on an angle tilting upwards towards the leading edge.

Next is sheeting. This is also primarily done with your back arm also. You basically want to "feather" the wing, not holding too much power and stalling it out. I wind gently massaging your angle of attack (sheeting angle) will help you feel out the most efficient sheet angle. Just because it feels powerful, doesn't mean it is going to efficient of go faster. (Over sheeting will cause you to go down wind!).

Next is the relationship between the Wing and the board fore and aft. This is a real crash coarse in sailing, but in basics when the Center Of Effort (the combined forces of the Wing) and the Center of Lateral Resistance (The central drag point of the board) align your should sail straight (theoretically! There is lots of other factors, but for now this will do). When you move the COE (Center of Effort) forward of the CLR it produces more power towards the nose of the board forcing it to be pushed away from the wind (i.e. go down wind). When the COE is moved aft of the CLR it produces more power aft of the CLR and forces the board upwind by push the tail downwind. There is a lot more in it than this, but this will help you to set up and understand what is happening.

Here is some very high tech diagrams,





have fun and play safe,

regards,

JB

Windgenuity, very good summary. I would add:

- The CoE move a lot with sheeting in/out. For instance beginners in Windsurfing were going into the wind in gusts and be smashed into the water by the sail, as the wind force was making then sheet out a bit, and the CoE was going aft, and the board turning upwind killing its speed.

- The CoR on a board without a centerboard move around a lot with the position on it: moving forwards on the board dig more rail forward, moves the CoR forward, and the board turns upwind, killing its speed.

Going upwind is tricky, it is finding a dynamic balance between speed and angle into the wind. If you have no sailing experience, do not struggle, just buy a strap-on center fins system or make yourself a crude one with some plywood and straps.

supinflatables.co.uk/arrows-drift-stopper.html

Select to expand quote

Windgenuity said..
This is an interesting topic "upwind".

I guess the big thing here that many sailors overlook is that the upwind thing, but in all sports "upwind" is actually a milestone, and takes some learning. The Wing Surfer is definitely easier to sail upwind than a windsurfer and kite for the comparable craft, but yes a centre/dagger board or centre fin will help tremendously.

Personally I have no issues Winging upwind on a SUP, here's an old one from one of my first goes on the Wing Surfer back in April. I was riding the Nalu Pro 10' x 27" @115ltrs. A few tacks up wind, then a fun run back. The app thinks it was 15kn, but it definitely wasn't. No way any kiters or windsurfer would have been going in that. I'd say more like 8kn.


It is all just practice, and you will get better and better as you get used to it.

Enjoy the ride, it's insane where the Wings will take us.

Regards,

JB

I can see what I need to do looking at your plotting. In your first tack you turn right away from the beach (presumably wind onshore?). I have been tacking back left to try (towards beach) and fight my way away from the beach. I need to try this.. I'm not sure my 160L All-rounder is particularly easy to maneuver for my 70kgs as that turn involves swinging the board around 90 degrees and turning the wings 180 degrees..

Love learning!!

To go upwind you need a daggerboard like the old windsurfer has. Nozza put a fin box in one of his and windsurfed it, I would suggest the longest more upright fin you can find. Or just use a foil.

Thanks heaps JB for your detailed explanations. I think the sheeting is what I need to practice. I found the more power I felt in the sail the less I would go upwind as well.
I am thinking of taking the rear fins off my quad only JP widebody & my Coreban Hyper & seeing how that goes.
I know I could easily just whack on the foil & go but I am interested to understand the aspects of sailing upwind with a Wingsurfer on a SUP first to get the best of both.

Thanks hilly. I was contemplating using just the foil mast. So might try that as well.

I quick update on my 5th session using the 5m gong wing and a 10'6 Jp allrounder. Finally I have managed to go upwind and stay upwind. Pretty pleased as I was starting to wonder if someone with zero wind knowledge/experience could crack this. This was using a standard sup 2+1 Fin setup. The wind was a nice 15 to 20 knots.

I have no problem going upwind on a normal sup board with a single 8" fin.

Select to expand quote

DavidJohn said..
I have no problem going upwind on a normal sup board with a single 8" fin.

Oh that's good. I got one of those Naish wings and was planning to learn with it on my


with a Cheyne Horan Star fin. I removed the quad fins. It is more challenging than I expected but with a surfing, windsurfing, kitesurfing background I should be able to sail upwind. The next thing is learning how to foil.

Select to expand quote

DavidJohn said..
I have no problem going upwind on a normal sup board with a single 8" fin.

In calm waters and light wind I reckon yes, easy. But 20 to 30 knots with some pretty chunky ocean bumps and it takes some doing. I have managed it but its pretty physical.....

Select to expand quote

IanInca said..

DavidJohn said..
I have no problem going upwind on a normal sup board with a single 8" fin.

In calm waters and light wind I reckon yes, easy. But 20 to 30 knots with some pretty chunky ocean bumps and it takes some doing. I have managed it but its pretty physical.....

Yeah I agree.

At this stage I would like to wing without the foil .. have 10' stylemaster SUP .. and Naish Wing.

Problem:

When I get close to plaining speed the tail sucks down and just won't perform.
Have had lots of windsurfer experience so the sailing side of it is progressing nicely.

Seems as though I need more of a plaining board.

Would appreciate any advise .. cheers

Select to expand quote

2MT said..
At this stage I would like to wing without the foil .. have 10' stylemaster SUP .. and Naish Wing.

Problem:

When I get close to plaining speed the tail sucks down and just won't perform.
Have had lots of windsurfer experience so the sailing side of it is progressing nicely.

Seems as though I need more of a plaining board.

Would appreciate any advise .. cheers

It is a surf sup with rocker in the tail designed to turn not plane. Get a flatter tail rockered board like a windsurfer or a foil.