Any one have any experience sailing on one? I noticed the keel is different from the Currawong and the Brolga. How thick were the hulls of the early 80's boats compared to the other Joubert designed boat, the Currawong and Brolga?

A few things I have noticed. The traveller is above the cabin top, which affects the companionway opening. Small little opening. I have only sailed on boats that have had the traveller on the aft of the cockpit and near the companionway, which seems to be better if you are shorthanding. If I installed a Dodger, how would that affect being able to move the boom?

With the traveller being above the companionway, there is no hatch, so the opening is small compared to what I am used to. It does appeal to me in that I would like to go out ocean cruising (smaller opening, less water can get in). Would this be a deal breaker for anyone?

To be honest, the majority of my time would be sailing around newcastle and lake Mac. And down to Sydney and up to Port Stephens but still would like the option of cruising down to Melbourne and further to Tassie and New Zealand in the future.

How would this be compared to a Cav 32? I really like the Cavalier but with kids the extra 2 feet ( Ilike the layout of the Magpie as well) is appealing.

Any info would be much appreciated.

Thanks,

Simple choice, you want to go on the ocean where it gets rough, get the Magpie.

Bit like a long term owner said to me years about his new 40 footer, "It is the first boat I have had where the windows did not leak"
Of course there where no windows.

Select to expand quote

fretbrner said..
Any one have any experience sailing on one? I noticed the keel is different from the Currawong and the Brolga. How thick were the hulls of the early 80's boats compared to the other Joubert designed boat, the Currawong and Brolga?

A few things I have noticed. The traveller is above the cabin top, which affects the companionway opening. Small little opening. I have only sailed on boats that have had the traveller on the aft of the cockpit and near the companionway, which seems to be better if you are shorthanding. If I installed a Dodger, how would that affect being able to move the boom?

With the traveller being above the companionway, there is no hatch, so the opening is small compared to what I am used to. It does appeal to me in that I would like to go out ocean cruising (smaller opening, less water can get in). Would this be a deal breaker for anyone?

To be honest, the majority of my time would be sailing around newcastle and lake Mac. And down to Sydney and up to Port Stephens but still would like the option of cruising down to Melbourne and further to Tassie and New Zealand in the future.

How would this be compared to a Cav 32? I really like the Cavalier but with kids the extra 2 feet ( Ilike the layout of the Magpie as well) is appealing.

Any info would be much appreciated.

Thanks,

There's a Magpie 34 called "Berrimilla" that's sailed Syd/Hobart, Hobart/Plymouth UK via Cape Horn for the Fastnet, then back to Sydney via the Northwest Passage for the following Syd/Hobart, not a bad 12 months sailing. I think he still has a blog well worth the read.

Select to expand quote

Moocher said..

fretbrner said..
Any one have any experience sailing on one? I noticed the keel is different from the Currawong and the Brolga. How thick were the hulls of the early 80's boats compared to the other Joubert designed boat, the Currawong and Brolga?

A few things I have noticed. The traveller is above the cabin top, which affects the companionway opening. Small little opening. I have only sailed on boats that have had the traveller on the aft of the cockpit and near the companionway, which seems to be better if you are shorthanding. If I installed a Dodger, how would that affect being able to move the boom?

With the traveller being above the companionway, there is no hatch, so the opening is small compared to what I am used to. It does appeal to me in that I would like to go out ocean cruising (smaller opening, less water can get in). Would this be a deal breaker for anyone?

To be honest, the majority of my time would be sailing around newcastle and lake Mac. And down to Sydney and up to Port Stephens but still would like the option of cruising down to Melbourne and further to Tassie and New Zealand in the future.

How would this be compared to a Cav 32? I really like the Cavalier but with kids the extra 2 feet ( Ilike the layout of the Magpie as well) is appealing.

Any info would be much appreciated.

Thanks,

There's a Magpie 34 called "Berrimilla" that's sailed Syd/Hobart, Hobart/Plymouth UK via Cape Horn for the Fastnet, then back to Sydney via the Northwest Passage for the following Syd/Hobart, not a bad 12 months sailing. I think he still has a blog well worth the read.

My apologies she's a Brolga 33!

Moocher,

Berrimilla is a Brolga 33. I know it is similar but the keel seems different, so it may not be as ocean friendly as the Brolga. I know neither has full keel but the Brolga and Cavalier have similar keels. Both are very similar to the S&S 34 and Contessa 32 ( both with blue water pedigree. I don't know if the Magpie was designed more for coastal cruising, while the Brolga was designed for deeper water.

Magpie was just an earlier design. All the early 'glass boats have thick layups in their hulls. The traveler on the rear of the cabin tops only real disadvantage is the purchase angle when you want to apply tension to the mainsheet. You have to stand at the front of the cockpit and haul back instead of up with a bridge traveler set up. The hatchway is not a problem and you soon get used to it. The advantages are obvious. The disadvantages are you cant sit on the hatchway entrance and look forward with a sliding cover open to keep a look out while singlehanding. Don't have that bit of extra ventilation while sailing either from an open hatch. Wont need a dodger.
All of Peter Joubert designs are very seaworthy. I have never sailed a Magpie but I've looked over a Brolga 33 and they are a large yacht compared to my Currawong. The Cav 32 is an old design too but I would prefer one of Peter's designs.

Ramona, did the v-berth cabin top seem low to you in the Brolga or was it just me? The Magpie, Brolga and currawong all seem to have low v-berth ceiling height. The Magpie v-berth feels longer than the Cav32 but the ceiling height seems kind of low, which makes it feel feel smaller. But I did six month cruises where the distance of the above bunk was only two feet or so, so I know I could get used to it, and I sleep pretty well in the forward berth. I guess I look at the Joubert designs and the forward cabin seems to stop short of most other boats. Maybe another 2-3 feet forward, which would give port lights either side and a bit more sitting room up front.

My forward berth is way too short to sleep on anyway. It's probably only 5 feet long. I use it as a sail storage area. There is very little headroom there and what is is reduced by the liferaft storage hatch. I'm thinking that Mr Joubert designed his yachts to actually sail and discouraged people adding weight in the ends. Especially the bow which is always going to be the most uncomfortable and noisy bunk anyway. My best bunk is a quarter berth, the other side has just a pipe cot. Looking at photos of the previous owners on Syd Hob races they used the settee berths and the cabin sole to sleep.

Select to expand quote

Ramona said..
Magpie was just an earlier design. All the early 'glass boats have thick layups in their hulls. The traveler on the rear of the cabin tops only real disadvantage is the purchase angle when you want to apply tension to the mainsheet. You have to stand at the front of the cockpit and haul back instead of up with a bridge traveler set up. The hatchway is not a problem and you soon get used to it. The advantages are obvious. The disadvantages are you cant sit on the hatchway entrance and look forward with a sliding cover open to keep a look out while singlehanding. Don't have that bit of extra ventilation while sailing either from an open hatch. Wont need a dodger.
All of Peter Joubert designs are very seaworthy. I have never sailed a Magpie but I've looked over a Brolga 33 and they are a large yacht compared to my Currawong. The Cav 32 is an old design too but I would prefer one of Peter's designs.

here here it would be my choice of pocket size glass offshore boats including all modern ones solid construction seaworthy design capable of going to windward in a blow and more controllable than the ss down breeze as less stern distortion

Hey fretbrnr

Are you looking at the Magpie in Mooloolaba?

Here is a shot of the magpie at our club. It is sailed competitively by its owner and it would be one of the stiffest boats in the fleet. The boats sales advert lists the Magpie with a 51% ballast to displacement ratio, similar to the Brolga. I think both were built with encapsulated keels, but rumor is that the one below was blown on the beach in a storm and the keel was re-bolted on, probably stronger than the original. Not a lot of damage though. The sail plan plan looks similar to the Brolga, Pippa that used to be on the same pier.

The rudder goes right to the stern like my Currawong, whilst the Brolga is more like a 30' boat with an overhanging stern. Sort of like a bespoke S&S34.

The tiller on the Magpie comes out on the top of the transform, where the Brolga tiller exits the cockpit. The decks are very similar in terms of styling, but topsides seems to be higher.

From what I can tell all the Brolga's were built by Baker, where the Magpies seem to be built in a few different places in Australia. I suspect both will be very seaworthy boats and its just that the Brolgas are bit more famous with Berrimilla's circumnavigation. With a Baker boat you can have a bit more confidence in the quality of the layout.

A

My Currawong was built in 1979 by Lloyd Northam He was Geoff Baker's foreman who took over the moulds after Geoff passed away. There is a Magpie on a mooring here at the moment. Not sure if it's just passing through or a new boat. I think all of Peter Joubert's designs are pretty heavy boats for their sizes. Mines 4205 kgs which is almost as heavy as an Australian SS34 and way heavier than an English SS34.

The Magpie is actually a newer design than the Brolga. The early Brolga Boomerang VIII did the 1970 Hobart, and ironically finished between the two Joubert 40s (Destiny and Boomerang VII) across the line. She went on to win the Sydney-Brisbane (later the Sydney-Mooloolaba) which at the time was the 3rd or 4th biggest prize in Australian ocean racing,.

Billabong, Joubert's own boat, was IIRC the first Magpie. She was launched in '77. She was 10th in the '78 Hobart, the start of a run of consistent good finishes until Joubert sold her.

They're both good designs of their time, and pretty versatile performers by the standards of their day. As BOTY noted, they have fuller sterns than the S&S 34 (pretty much contemporary of the Brolga) or the Dunco 3/4 tonner, UFO and Bounty (which were contemporaries of the Magpie) and were often thought to be better downwind in a blow.

I don't think Joubert designed "inshore" and "offshore" boats (apart from his very early designs). The Brolgas, Currawongs, Magpies etc were all pretty tough offshore racers. I do know that Fearless Freddy Thomas, a partner in a spar maker, didn't like the Joubert designs because he often had the shroud base only as wide as the cabin, which increased compression loads on the mast. Apart from that Jouberts are normally tough, although I did break two of them... I blame the other watch and come to think of it, I was actually down below both times.

The standard Currawongs weren't particularly heavy when compared to other Aussie halves of the time; I've got an old analysis of the halves of the '70s by John Green somewhere in my magazine collection and as a half tonner fan I used to read it avidly. It showed the Currawong (Joubert's own Gumblossom, I think) as being lighter than quite a few comparable halves.

The point I was trying to make Chris is pretty much all the yachts of that era are heavy lay ups and will be lasting forever! The Australian made boats in half tonner and one tonner always seem to be heavier than their European counterparts. fretbrner could buy a Magpie or an Australian SS34 and never have to worry whether the hull is strong enough.

You are talking here of boats with designs named after birds. My neighbour has a beautiful sloop called
Boomerang and the design is a Cape Barren Goose. Are we talking about the same designer as the Magpie
and Brolga etc ??.

Select to expand quote

samsturdy said..
You are talking here of boats with designs named after birds. My neighbour has a beautiful sloop called
Boomerang and the design is a Cape Barren Goose. Are we talking about the same designer as the Magpie
and Brolga etc ??.

Yes Sam

Theselkie, yes that is the one I've been looking at. I am back up to the sunsh8ne coast to have a really good look the next day or so.

Is there something I should be worried about? Know something I should be wary about? The short look I had didn' seem bad. Maybe I missed a soft spot on the cabin top ?

The magpie was one of the last boats out of Geoff Bakers yard. The deck mould is a cut and shut of the brolga deck so the tumble home in the hull to make the feck fit looks slightly awkward. Good boat though and like all baker boats they're bulletproof.

The brolgas keel is from the wombat 42's plug so it is a little fat ( which makes it strong and low stall in upwind slogging) The currawong keel is encapsulated too but is finer and lower drag in light to moderate airs.

Of course all my racing mates call them 4 knot ****boxes but they'll always make it through.

I own a Brolga and I modified the forward bunk head layout to have a large bunk there

4 knots? Didn't a currawong win the Sydney to Hobart once? Don' tthink you could be a 4 knots **box and win the Sydney to Hobart (even in the early 80's) and be the smallest to ever do so.

I believe Ramona, who owns a currawong, sails against a cavalier 32, which i know easily does 6 knots, and he once pointed out he leaves him in his wake. So I don't think Jouberts designed slow boats. At least the currawong.

Unless you are talking about the Brolga , due to its larger keel, being slow.

4 knot **** box is just a genetic term for keel boats that always sail at displacement speed. I always refer to my boat that way because it's probably it's average speed and is practical for planning purposes. Obviously it goes faster at times. Zeus 2 won on handicap. The race is about 630 nm so check out the elapsed time to see how it averaged.

Ringle is this your boat?

Select to expand quote

Ramona said..
Magpie was just an earlier design. All the early 'glass boats have thick layups in their hulls. The traveler on the rear of the cabin tops only real disadvantage is the purchase angle when you want to apply tension to the mainsheet. You have to stand at the front of the cockpit and haul back instead of up with a bridge traveler set up. The hatchway is not a problem and you soon get used to it. The advantages are obvious. The disadvantages are you cant sit on the hatchway entrance and look forward with a sliding cover open to keep a look out while singlehanding. Don't have that bit of extra ventilation while sailing either from an open hatch. Wont need a dodger.
All of Peter Joubert designs are very seaworthy. I have never sailed a Magpie but I've looked over a Brolga 33 and they are a large yacht compared to my Currawong. The Cav 32 is an old design too but I would prefer one of Peter's designs.

Ramona, interesting your comments on a dodger on these boats. Do you ever wish for one on your Ramona? Reason I ask is that the dodger on my Currawong has had it, so in two minds as to whether to sew up a new one (which is not a small job) or just take the dodger frame off and go sans dodger. Any thoughts?

I' on two minds with a dodger. In rough seas or heavy rains, in nice to have a little area to somewhat get out of the elements. Being cold, wet and miserable is not why I started sailing.

On 30+ days, no worries. But not cool after a long day sailing in the winter with biting winds. And why every sailboat in Australia doesn' have a bimini is beyond me. The sun is brutal In the summer. And looking like a piece of leather when I'm older is not what I really desire.

Select to expand quote

Ramona, interesting your comments on a dodger on these boats. Do you ever wish for one on your Ramona? Reason I ask is that the dodger on my Currawong has had it, so in two minds as to whether to sew up a new one (which is not a small job) or just take the dodger frame off and go sans dodger. Any thoughts?

No. I'm not a fan of dodgers. If I had wheel steering on a Currawong {that would be just weird] they might be ok.
When I'm sailing and actually holding the tiller I sit up close to the bulkhead. The rear edge of the aft cabin top has a wind deflector that sends the wind over my head. My eyes are just above the coaming so I'm sitting out of the wind anyway and water rarely comes over the bow. I occasionally get wet from waves slapping up over the side of the cockpit so a dodger wont help there. The Currawong cockpit is very deep compared to other yachts. If it rains I sit at the chart table. If it's hot I wear a hat and mask, sunglasses and zinc cream. In my old age I find the most damage I get now is wind burn.

If I was to suddenly win the lottery and buy one of those yachts off my saved list that had a dodger it would be the first change I make.

Select to expand quote

Ramona said..
4 knot **** box is just a genetic term for keel boats that always sail at displacement speed. I always refer to my boat that way because it's probably it's average speed and is practical for planning purposes. Obviously it goes faster at times. Zeus 2 won on handicap. The race is about 630 nm so check out the elapsed time to see how it averaged.

Ringle is this your boat?

No. But I know the boat and owner. He's just bolted a wind vane to the stern and is heading north

Select to expand quote

fretbrner said..
4 knots? Didn't a currawong win the Sydney to Hobart once? Don' tthink you could be a 4 knots **box and win the Sydney to Hobart (even in the early 80's) and be the smallest to ever do so.

I believe Ramona, who owns a currawong, sails against a cavalier 32, which i know easily does 6 knots, and he once pointed out he leaves him in his wake. So I don't think Jouberts designed slow boats. At least the currawong.

Unless you are talking about the Brolga , due to its larger keel, being slow.

Yes ... as Ramona says it's just a disparaging term used by the racing crowd who talk carbon, assos and double digit boatspeeds most of the time

Select to expand quote

Ringle said..

No. But I know the boat and owner. He's just bolted a wind vane to the stern and is heading north

I know him too, he has stopped over here. I thought it might have been you! That Brolga is absolutely top notch and a credit to him.
This morning on my way offshore I motored past this yacht which I'm fairly sure is a Magpie. Looks like a Currawong at first glance but the overhangs are noticeably longer.

Select to expand quote

Ramona said..

Ramona, interesting your comments on a dodger on these boats. Do you ever wish for one on your Ramona? Reason I ask is that the dodger on my Currawong has had it, so in two minds as to whether to sew up a new one (which is not a small job) or just take the dodger frame off and go sans dodger. Any thoughts?

No. I'm not a fan of dodgers. If I had wheel steering on a Currawong {that would be just weird] they might be ok.
When I'm sailing and actually holding the tiller I sit up close to the bulkhead. The rear edge of the aft cabin top has a wind deflector that sends the wind over my head. My eyes are just above the coaming so I'm sitting out of the wind anyway and water rarely comes over the bow. I occasionally get wet from waves slapping up over the side of the cockpit so a dodger wont help there. The Currawong cockpit is very deep compared to other yachts. If it rains I sit at the chart table. If it's hot I wear a hat and mask, sunglasses and zinc cream. In my old age I find the most damage I get now is wind burn.

If I was to suddenly win the lottery and buy one of those yachts off my saved list that had a dodger it would be the first change I make.

I was fortunate to have a squizz at Alex's Brolga Berrimilla a few years ago. He had an interesting dodger arrangement that extended only about 8 or 12 inches beyond the aft cabin top that he said they could crouch behind and worked really well. I've got a photo of it somewhere, I'll see if I can dig it out

Select to expand quote

fretbrner said..


I believe Ramona, who owns a currawong, sails against a cavalier 32, which i know easily does 6 knots, and he once pointed out he leaves him in his wake. So I don't think Jouberts designed slow boats. At least the currawong.

Ramona's boat goes well, but a good Cavalier 32 is just as quick as a Currawong, or a bit quicker. These days, the basic potential of these old boats is hidden by the fact that few of them have fast sails or are sailed hard. There are lots of racing boats that sail around racecourses minute slower than they could go, so just looking at the performance of one boat can be misleading.

The Cavs did very well in the early days of the Half Ton class, 2nd in the NZ titles against the first Farr boats (ahead of S&S designs, etc) and about 4th in the Australian titles. And all but about half a dozen Australian Cavaliers have bigger rigs than the Kiwi boats. If you look at the early days of half tonners in Australia, you see that lots and lots of different designs could be in the top 4 nationally; East Coasts, S&S Defiance 30s, Knoops, Currawongs, a Custom 30, Endeavour 30s, Cavs, Spencer 30s etc all had their time at the top.

It's a similar story with the old 3/4 tonners; UFOs, Bounty 35s, Magpies, Pawtuckets, Carter 33s, Yamaha 33s etc are all about the same speed and all won big races in their class.

A lot of older boats are not sailed very hard these days, so they get the reputation of being slower than they really are. I interviewed a bunch of people who sailed old boats really well, back when I used to write articles. All of them said that the old boats have to be sailed just as hard as the newer boats; for example they need lots of attention to crew weight, just like a modern boat.

After reviewing Andrew68's post and photo above I have decided Crossbow is a Brolga! The differences of the rudder is quite obvious when it has been pointed out.

The matter of older boats seeming slower it mainly because of the additions, Mainly on the sterns, dodgers, solar panels, barbecues and gas bottles, davits and dinghies and ouboards etc. Even in club racing there are plenty of 30 footers struggling around with all that weight over the stern. Don't see many halftonners sailing with out all the adornments these days.

Just for comparison we single point lifted Defiance on the lift out, it came in at 3608 kg.
At Dubios 1/2 tonner was between 2395kg (Beach inspector) and 2650kg (Woodyard) depending on configuration.
Standard Defiance 30 (Savage) is suspect is a bit over 4000kg

Select to expand quote

Ramona said..

Ringle said..




No. But I know the boat and owner. He's just bolted a wind vane to the stern and is heading north

I know him too, he has stopped over here. I thought it might have been you! That Brolga is absolutely top notch and a credit to him.
This morning on my way offshore I motored past this yacht which I'm fairly sure is a Magpie. Looks like a Currawong at first glance but the overhangs are noticeably longer.

I'm pretty sure crossbow is a Formfit built Brolga