Well I would consider windvane self steering a must for cruising long distance. But, I was wondering what you "old salts" think. I was talking to an old guy who took me sailing a few weeks ago on his spacesailer 24. He used to have a Van De Stat 37ft he did a fair few trips on that in the pacific apparently.

He swears by his Aries windvane, I have been told by others that Monitors are fantastic, but I'm not sure about that. Every long trip I have seen with a monitor has ended with the windvane breaking. The recent version of "Golden Globe", ARC, Parmelia Race.
I have heard similar things with the Navik

I reckon Flemings and Aries as the best of them all. What do you guys think?

The failure with the Monitors used in the GG were welding problems with the SS. People get carried away with welding SS and make the welds too tidy. I prefer strength. Aries have problems occasionally with the alloy tubes and castings. Navik's are tiny and fragile and out of production. Flemings are good all rounders. If I was to buy secondhand it would be Monitor, Aries and then Fleming but much would depend on the availability and price. I built my own out of SS and it looks like a Monitor but I have stolen all the good ideas from the others!.
The video is of my second unit and this has been modified several times over the years. Cheap to build but very labour intensive!

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Ramona said..
The failure with the Monitors used in the GG were welding problems with the SS. People get carried away with welding SS and make the welds too tidy. I prefer strength. Aries have problems occasionally with the alloy tubes and castings. Navik's are tiny and fragile and out of production. Flemings are good all rounders. If I was to buy secondhand it would be Monitor, Aries and then Fleming but much would depend on the availability and price. I built my own out of SS and it looks like a Monitor but I have stolen all the good ideas from the others!.
The video is of my second unit and this has been modified several times over the years. Cheap to build but very labour intensive!

I don't know if you have read Jon sanders book, on his double non-stop circumnavigation of the world in Perie Banou (S&s 34) in 1981-82. His Hasler broke after 3 days he then fixed it but once again it was irreparably broken after 2 weeks of sailing. His second hand Aries which had already done several thousand miles on Stray Bit ( another s&s 34) steered the rest of the 420 days. Surviving 2 roll overs and about 15 knockdowns how's that for a nice piece of machinery.
PS your windvane looks tough as. Had any problems with it?

Has brass bevel gears now instead of Delrin.

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Ramona said..
Has brass bevel gears now instead of Delrin.

Why did you swap them? Stronger?

My Voyager did a great job coming back from Tual to TI. Motor steered in 2 knots across the deck.

No experience with them, but I've always liked the simplicity and looks ofthe Windpilot Pacific Light for small yachts.
Webb Chiles just completed another circumnavigation this time on Gannet, a Moore 24, using Raymarine ST tiller pilots( he carried 4 or 5 of them), and sheet to tiller.

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BlueMoon said..
No experience with them, but I've always liked the simplicity and looks ofthe Windpilot Pacific Light for small yachts.
Webb Chiles just completed another circumnavigation this time on Gannet, a Moore 24, using Raymarine ST tiller pilots( he carried 4 or 5 of them), and sheet to tiller.

He must have used a lot of fuel to power them.
From what my mate at the yacht club has told me. Sheet to tiller is a hit or miss, works on some boats and doesn't on others. Apparently it works with a Top Hat but no really for an S&s 34. I have also been told it is not really something to rely on, just something to keep you going whilst your make something to eat.
PS surprised sheet to tiller worked with a Moore 24. They look like real fast race boats.
PPS I doubt a windvane would have worked on a fast boat either. Congratulations to him as well.

MB has the Fleming 401. It had already done a full circumnavigation on another S&S34.
It is truly fantastic. Wouldn't be without it.
Simple, rugged, sensitive.
Sheet to tiller. I tried it for months and it doesn't work on my boat. A different main sheet setup might help but there isn't enough movement in the sheet to pull anything of consequence.
S&S34s steer themselves up wind. Without any assistance I have left MB sailing on the wind and watched her steer herself for hours.

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MorningBird said..
MB has the Fleming 401. It had already done a full circumnavigation on another S&S34.
It is truly fantastic. Wouldn't be without it.
Simple, rugged, sensitive.
Sheet to tiller. I tried it for months and it doesn't work on my boat. A different main sheet setup might help but there isn't enough movement in the sheet to pull anything of consequence.
S&S34s steer themselves up wind. Without any assistance I have left MB sailing on the wind and watched her steer herself for hours.

I have watched your video on your trip out to lord Howe in 2014 about a 100 times. Your windvane looked fantastic, I noticed both Jesse Martin and Jessica Watson had a Fleming 401 on their boats as well.

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Shanty said..

Ramona said..
Has brass bevel gears now instead of Delrin.

Why did you swap them? Stronger?

The teeth were suffering from UV damage.

Anything you need to know about windvane self steering can be found at this site.

www.cruisersforum.com/forums/tags/windvane.html

Anyone know if
they still make Fleming wind vanes?

I have a very good condition global 400 for sale the most modern and smallest of the Fleming they are not cheap but very strong no oil rig hanging on the back

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Shanty said..
Anyone know if
they still make Fleming wind vanes?

They do. I believe the company has changed hands. Morningbird probably has the address.

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Ramona said..

Shanty said..
Anyone know if
they still make Fleming wind vanes?

They do. I believe the company has changed hands. Morningbird probably has the address.

Thanks mate,
I will ask him.
Regards,
Mick

During the GGR you were able to ask questions for the Q&R sessions that were posted on Facebook. I asked the following regarding windvanes: "any comments about windvanes breaking too frequently, especially at the wrong time ie middle of a storm?". Don Mcyintime's response was "My personal opinion is that I would never - ever sail the GGR with anything other than an aries or a hydrovane"

Jean-Luc ( 1st) , who pitchpoled, used a hydrovane and Mark ( 2nd) survived a really bad storm in the Indian Ocean, that dismasted two other competitors, used an aries. I believe they had no problems with their windvanes, though I admit I lost interest halfway through. Unfortunately the competitors using Monitor windvane kept on experincing breakages at the wrong time, normally right in the middle of a storm. Hopefully the makers of Monitors are looking at the GGR experience and re-engineering their Windvanes.

Ilenart

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Shanty said..

Ramona said..

Shanty said..
Anyone know if
they still make Fleming wind vanes?

They do. I believe the company has changed hands. Morningbird probably has the address.

Thanks mate,
I will ask him.
Regards,
Mick

Last I heard Phil George still had the Fleming business. A top bloke to me. Mob: 0433 982 368.

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Ilenart said..
competitors, used an aries. I believe they had no problems with their windvanes, though I admit I lost interest halfway through. Unfortunately the competitors using Monitor windvane kept on experincing breakages at the wrong time, normally right in the middle of a storm. Hopefully the makers of Monitors are looking at the GGR experience and re-engineering their Windvanes.

Ilenart

The one Aries that did have problems was an old one that had already done one circumnavigation. The Monitors that failed I believe was from the SS welds. The builders tend to make them too pretty and neat. Van Den Heede won using a Hydrovane but that was not the real reason for him winning. He actually is a very experienced sailor and also spent the two winters before the race sailing in the Bay of Biscay training and developing his boat. One of the notable changes he made from this was to shorten his mast by 1.5 metres and use roller headsail furling. Some of his competitors who did have trouble with their windvane steering did their qualifying sailing distance by daysailing and staying in port overnight! There is no substitute for proper preparation and training.

The Aries that did fail supposedly broke the SS tube support. Photo in the article shows the tube braced with a bit of plywood. Looked at two Aries windvanes this morning, old one and a new one and they were both all aluminium! I have never seem one that did not have aluminium tubes.

The photo is my mates alloy Cole 43. The windvane is an old Fleming with the large diameter tube cut out and thin framework of SS tube welded up similar to mine and Monitors. Pushrod changed to a carbon fibre tube.

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Ramona said..
The Aries that did fail supposedly broke the SS tube support. Photo in the article shows the tube braced with a bit of plywood. Looked at two Aries windvanes this morning, old one and a new one and they were both all aluminium! I have never seem one that did not have aluminium tubes.

The photo is my mates alloy Cole 43. The windvane is an old Fleming with the large diameter tube cut out and thin framework of SS tube welded up similar to mine and Monitors. Pushrod changed to a carbon fibre tube.

Hey Mate, the main reason I have been asking about questions about Flemings. To me they look like the best built construction wise. Although Aries have a fantastic history. Jimmy Cornell who has founded multiple sailing rallies including ARC (Atlantic rally for cruisers). has written a little bit about them in one of his books. He used an Aries in his first circumnavigation in a Van de Stat 36 triella ( think that's what it was). He reckons they are fantastic and it steered 80 percent of the time sailing. Not one fault,
thanks for your information Ramona very much appreciated.
regards,
Mick

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Shanty said..

Ramona said..
The Aries that did fail supposedly broke the SS tube support. Photo in the article shows the tube braced with a bit of plywood. Looked at two Aries windvanes this morning, old one and a new one and they were both all aluminium! I have never seem one that did not have aluminium tubes.

The photo is my mates alloy Cole 43. The windvane is an old Fleming with the large diameter tube cut out and thin framework of SS tube welded up similar to mine and Monitors. Pushrod changed to a carbon fibre tube.

Hey Mate, the main reason I have been asking about questions about Flemings. To me they look like the best built construction wise. Although Aries have a fantastic history. Jimmy Cornell who has founded multiple sailing rallies including ARC (Atlantic rally for cruisers). has written a little bit about them in one of his books. He used an Aries in his first circumnavigation in a Van de Stat 36 triella ( think that's what it was). He reckons they are fantastic and it steered 80 percent of the time sailing. Not one fault,
thanks for your information Romona very much appreciated.
regards,
Mick

A not O

Aries have aluminium support tubes that are 38mm dia and have wall thickness of 6.35mm or (old school) 1 1/2" x 1/4 " wall,
The connecting ends are bolted,,,no welds and strong as

My windvane was made for the previous yacht, so when transfering it to the present yacht I made the supports out of 20 or 25mm stainless angle.
Mine is similar to the Fleming but was made by Norvane in California.

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Craig66 said..

Shanty said..

Ramona said..
The Aries that did fail supposedly broke the SS tube support. Photo in the article shows the tube braced with a bit of plywood. Looked at two Aries windvanes this morning, old one and a new one and they were both all aluminium! I have never seem one that did not have aluminium tubes.

The photo is my mates alloy Cole 43. The windvane is an old Fleming with the large diameter tube cut out and thin framework of SS tube welded up similar to mine and Monitors. Pushrod changed to a carbon fibre tube.

Hey Mate, the main reason I have been asking about questions about Flemings. To me they look like the best built construction wise. Although Aries have a fantastic history. Jimmy Cornell who has founded multiple sailing rallies including ARC (Atlantic rally for cruisers). has written a little bit about them in one of his books. He used an Aries in his first circumnavigation in a Van de Stat 36 triella ( think that's what it was). He reckons they are fantastic and it steered 80 percent of the time sailing. Not one fault,
thanks for your information Romona very much appreciated.
regards,
Mick

A not O

Sorry Ramona I will correct your name in my post.