Well - I've put it off for as long as I can, but the old Volvo MD17D has finally given up. I guess 32 years of service is as much as you can expect out of a raw water cooled engine. I'm not even going to investigate how the water is getting into the oil; it could be a costly exercise; the time has come to move on.

I have heard that the new Volvo D2-40 has issues with the heat exchanger and "black box" (and the usual cost of parts) so I'm looking elsewhere.

So - I am considering one of two Kubota based diesels - either the Beta 38 or the Nanni 38hp. I'm leaning towards the Nanni as it gets its 38 hp at 3000rpm whereas that model of Beta revs to 3600 for some reason.

Anybody have personal experience on any of these two?
Or had experience with Becker Marine - the Adelaide agent for Nanni?

What are the issues with the volvo penta and from whom did you hear of these issues? I am currently investigating re-powering as my salt water cooled 2002 after 30 years is having persistent problems with the cooling water or rather lack thereof. So I would like some experienced comment from owners with D1 and D2 motors please.

Ask Cisco his favorite marine diesel is the Kubota Auscan

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AusCan said..

So - I am considering one of two Kubota based diesels - either the Beta 38 or the Nanni 38hp. I'm leaning towards the Nanni as it gets its 38 hp at 3000rpm whereas that model of Beta revs to 3600 for some reason.

Check to see if the base Kubota engine is the same model for the Nanni and the Beta and then check the Kubota web site to see what the performance figures really are.

I had a Nanni/Kubota 43 hp some years ago and the Kubota is a great engine but I think Nanni do a poor job of marinizing them.

The Beta marinizing appears to be a whole lot better. Another marinized Kubota option is the Diecon engine from Brisbane. They import used Kubotas, marinize them and add a gearbox to them. They are a fair bit cheaper and have a good reputation. If you want a brand new engine they can do that too.

http://www.corcooling.com.au/marinised-engines/

Yanmars are an excellent product too. I think the only way to go is a fresh water cooled heat exchanger engine these days.

The heat exchanger gives you a safety margin if the raw water system fails due to blockage or a burnt out impeller.

HaveFun
I've just heard 2nd hand online comments about the Volvo D2-40. Problems with the heat exchangers rotting out prematurely, and issues with the "black box" which controls the glow plugs, hour meter and starting. The price of volvo parts puts me off too.

Cisco - Kubota's website states that the engine is 3000 rpm max, so I'm not sure how Beta comes up with the 3600 rpm. A typo on the website maybe? All the other engines of that series are 3000 rpm. I'll ask the Beta dealer about it.

I hear nothing but good about Beta. Besides the normal marinizing components, they install a much heavier flywheel on their engine, which I see as a good thing for smoothness and longer life for the gearbox.

The attraction of the Nanni conversion is it is the smallest in physical size. With my tight access, every inch helps when working on the engine.

I'll contact Diecon as well. Thanks for the tip.

Space constraint is always the biggest challenge when fitting a new engine. The next biggest challenge is getting the installation right. It is usually the things around the engine that cause problems rather than the engine itself.

Before you fit the engine ensure that you have an efficient way of changing the oil. I think the Beta is fitted with a sump pump with a suction line that draws from the lowest part of the sump. If whatever engine you fit does not have something like that, set it up like that before fitting it. The easier it is to do an oil change the more likely you are to do it on a regular basis.

If you have to, take the sump off and drill it at its lowest point and fit it with a connection and a drain line to a pump or a stop cock with a screw in plug if you have room to gravity drain to a container.

This common method of putting a suction line down the dip stick hole and sucking it from there is not good at all. You are never sure that you are sucking from the bottom of the sump and getting the build up of sludge out.

Another thing to carefully consider is the run of your cooling water lines and positioning of the anti siphon loop if you will have one. Avoid having the loop over the engine where the bleed fitting can drip on the engine. Also avoid having connections that may drip over the top of the engine too. I had big problems with that in the past.

Spend as much time as you have to getting the mounting of the engine as strong, rigid and accurate as possible. If you can solid mount it, I recommend it especially in a GRP hull. In a metal hull it may be noisy and subject to harmonics.

The installation of the engine is really the most important part of repowering. If you are able to do it yourself it is great. Apart from saving money you will know exactly what has been done and where there may be future problems. If you are hiring someone to do it insist on watching or even helping.

Ask MorningBird about so called professional installations.

I imagine you will be spending $12k to $15k here and that is a strong incentive to get it exactly right.

If you can post photos etc of the job from start to finish I am sure we would all benefit from it and the "Brains Trust" could give you hints and tips along the way. Best of luck with it mate.

Thanks again; Lots of great points.
Its already been a great learning experience and I haven't even pulled the old Volvo out yet. Just been researching to compare different engines & gearboxes, taking lots of measurements. Trying to predict how each different engine will sit and how access for maintenance will work out.

Leaning more toward Beta all the time. Just need to clarify a few things with their engineers when they return to work next week.

Good idea about the photo record of progress. I'll try to share the learning as I go. I plan to do as much of the job myself as possible.
Most engine companies still offer a full warranty to a do-it-yourselfer, as long as a marine engineer of some sort does the final alignment check and sign off.

Here's what I'm looking down at. Just a simple removal of the pilothouse door jam will give me room to pull the old green girl out. Then Ill pull and clean the fuel tanks, clean and paint the bilge, re-locate the batteries, rewire the bilge pumps, etc etc etc before I even begin the new installation. Busy days ahead!

BTW - if anyone is looking for any used Volvo MD17D parts (recently rebuilt starter, good alternator, & MS2 gearbox) let me know.

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AusCan said..
BTW - if anyone is looking for any used Volvo MD17D parts (recently rebuilt starter, good alternator, & MS2 gearbox) let me know.

If it was me I would replace with a rebuilt MD17D and convert to freshwater cooling. You are half way there. Don't get sucked into the Kubota smoother quieter bull**** Report back in another 32 years

Hi Aus Can

Not sure if you wanted to have a look at one possible cause of the water in the oil before you re-power? It might be something really easy to fix!

I recently had the same issue with a MD11D, however this engine had been rebuilt so I was more determined to find it, in the end it was as simple as changing the 2 rubber seals on the water pump. It might just be worth taking the water pump off and having a quick look as could get you another few years out of the 'old green girl'. If the pump shaft is pretty ruff then you would have to replace this too ... I think the entire pump assembly for the MD11D was $800.

ky- Yes I checked the cheap easy & possibilities like the impeller seals. There is a drain vent between them anyway, and it would be dripping if either were bad. The seals were in good shape, and the vent was clear, but I replaced them anyway. I haven't been able to restart because the diesel injector pump has died. (likely due to sitting with the moisture in the oil)

So it was a question of replacing the injector pump, to see if somehow water was tracking past the open vent & past the oil seal. I didn't like the odds. Then pulling heads, liners, etc. and going deeper (into the engine and my pockets) If the parts were readily available and priced reasonably, I would have continued. In the end I'd rather spend the money on a sure thing, rather than risk the possibility of hitting a brick wall after investing a few thousand doing further investigation.
Even the local Volvo mechanic suggested that it would be unwise to pour more money into it.

Ramona - The md17 is a great engine, and if volvo still supported it with parts, I would definitely rebuild. Too many parts are discontinued now, and not available anywhere. In another ten years it will only be worse. It is sad - but time to move on.

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AusCan said..
ky- Yes I checked the cheap easy & possibilities like the impeller seals. There is a drain vent between them anyway, and it would be dripping if either were bad. The seals were in good shape, and the vent was clear, but I replaced them anyway. I haven't been able to restart because the diesel injector pump has died. (likely due to sitting with the moisture in the oil)
So it was a question of replacing the injector pump, to see if somehow water was tracking past the open vent & past the oil seal. I didn't like the odds. Then pulling heads, liners, etc. and going deeper (into the engine and my pockets) If the parts were readily available and priced reasonably, I would have continued. In the end I'd rather spend the money on a sure thing, rather than risk the possibility of hitting a brick wall after investing a few thousand doing further investigation.
Even the local Volvo mechanic suggested that it would be unwise to pour more money into it.
Ramona - The md17 is a great engine, and if volvo still supported it with parts, I would definitely rebuild. Too many parts are discontinued now, and not available anywhere. In another ten years it will only be worse. It is sad - but time to move on.

Hi Auscan,

I repowered early last year with a Beta 30HP. Couldn't be happier. The old green Volvo 2003 blew a head gasket and filled all three cylinders with water. Seized her up solid. When I replaced the engine I replaced averything attached to it including fuel tank, control cables, everything, as it was in the order of 30 year old so to ensure the best reliability I could I replaced it all.

Sounds like you have covered all the easy fix's ... its good to know when to stop throwing good money after bad . Good Luck with the job.

Interesting thread here about the origins of Volvo marine engines. I was aware that some of the 90's built ones were Japanese built Perkins. Seems my MD7 is actually an Albin design. One of my earlier fishing boats had an AQA40 diesel. The engine was designed and built by women.

forums.ybw.com/index.php?threads/volvo-md31.418379/

Yes - Volvo's have has a variety of builders. The MD17D was the last model built by Volvo from the ground up as a marine diesel.

The new Volvo's aren't actually built by Perkins. The base engine for both Volvo's and small Perkins engines which are built by Shibaura Machinery Corporation of Japan.

After much research & deliberation I've decided to go with the Vetus M4.45. Its a Mitsubishi based engine and it was the best fit for minimal fuss with engine mounts..

Although the initial price quoted on the Beta was similar to the Vetus, Beta's price rose another $6000 to include a hydraulic gearbox, a 100 amp alternator, gauges for the instrument panel, and freight to Adelaide. The Vetus price increased $600. (110 amp alternator was standard) Vetus also were air freighting the gearbox from Holland at no extra cost. They really are working hard to get business; Hopefully it will continue with after-sales service.

I decided to go with a hydraulic Hurth ZF-25A gearbox. Its a bit beefier than what is normally fitted with this size engine. As a bonus, - it can be run either direction at full load so I don't have to change out my LH prop.

So - I've pulled out the big green Volvo; that went smoothly without a hitch. Then I pulled out the 2 x 100 litre stainless steel fuel tanks. They had been sitting in place for 32 years without any air circulation underneath. I knew there was a very slow weep from one of them. After both were cleaned the slow weep turned into a big leak, and the other one was just as bad. Two new tanks are now being built. A few changes to the design and mounting will ensure they last longer than me.

The new engine arrives in 3 weeks. Plenty to do between now and then.

One comment from my engine work. If you paint the bilge make absolutely sure you do it properly. If the paint peels off it will clog bilge pumps and you don't want that. I ended up cleaning my bilge but didn't paint as I couldn't be sure I 'd get all the crap off the rough areas of the bilge.
The problems Cisco refers to was a poorly installed shaft, by one of the most respected diesel mechanics on Pittwater. An 8ft long shaft with a stern bearing and no other support before the stern gland 7 or so feet away and then a rubber mounted engine. Shaft vibration and whipping caused all sorts of problems. Now she has a forward bearing and Volvo gland the engine and shaft is smooth and silent. I'd suggest that you think through and personally agree on how it is installed.
I don't know much about which new engine is best but my little 30 year old freshwater cooled Sole 3 cyl 20hp engine is a ripper.

Entirely agree with MorningBird on clean up of engine bay/bilge.

Clean it all up and then eat a breakfast or two out of it.

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cisco said..

Entirely agree with MorningBird on clean up of engine bay/bilge.

Clean it all up and then eat a breakfast or two out of it.

There is no way I would eat breakfast out of mine at the moment

Ok - she's good to go for breakfast.

And here's the new donk in place.

Also moved the fuel tanks outward a bit, to give more space around engine. Also removed battery boxes. Now going forward on other side of bulkhead. The plan is to box in the engine somewhat so I can insulate the noise somewhat.
While I had the space with engine out, I also pulled stuffing box and repacked, replaced stern tube hose (it looked to be the 32 year old original)

I tried to install a flex coupling but the supplied coupling didn't fit on the gearbox outlet flange. I'll get it turned down a bit and have another go. Aso had to replace the prop shaft coupling to match the new gearbox.

Here's my short little prop shaft and stuffing box. I extended the hose about 100mm to allow a bit more space around the stuffing box for adjustment. It also moved the stuffing box onto a nice smooth section of the prop shaft.

Very nice job
There was a second hand Vetus on e bay a while back around 24 HP I think was very temped to buy it ,some are Mitsubishi diesels
Looking forward to your posts on the motor when you have time in the future. Job Well done.