Fyi Leg 2 starting this morning.

Interesting following the tracker and decent live coverage at leg start/finish

Get the app to follow it or http://www.volvooceanrace.com/en/home.html

I'm going for Vestas as international and Scallywag is the part-local boat

And bloody hell they were flying. I watched that heli footage and they all had a lot sail up and doing 30knts, in some cases an A1, J2 and J3 I think. Anyway it all looked pretty impressive, I'd love to have a ride on one at that speed.

Absolutely incredible footage! I can't imagine how it would feel to be doing 30kts in those waves.

Incredable yachts ! Great footage ! The three headsails combo was extrordinary ! Those yachts must be so strong , until they break ..............

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SandS said..
Those yachts must be so strong , until they break ..............

If it doesn't break, it was built too heavy

3 legs in the Southern Ocean, hopefully built right

The footage is mesmerising interesting to see the difference between the 4 sail and 3 sail setups

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andy59 said..
The footage is mesmerising interesting to see the difference between the 4 sail and 3 sail setups

I've been tossing up whether to try this gennaker/headsail/staysail combo thingy , but having no backstay is making me me pause !!

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shaggybaxter said..

andy59 said..
The footage is mesmerising interesting to see the difference between the 4 sail and 3 sail setups

I've been tossing up whether to try this gennaker/headsail/staysail combo thingy , but having no backstay is making me me pause !!

I see a lot of boats with staysail set up's down here in Tas. Mostly cruising boats, so would that be more about dropping the headsail, hoisting the staysail and pulling effort back towards the centre of the boat in heavier air in order to balance the boat better?

I'd be interested to hear from people with this set up and how they use it?

Select to expand quote

2bish said..

shaggybaxter said..

andy59 said..
The footage is mesmerising interesting to see the difference between the 4 sail and 3 sail setups

I've been tossing up whether to try this gennaker/headsail/staysail combo thingy , but having no backstay is making me me pause !!

I see a lot of boats with staysail set up's down here in Tas. Mostly cruising boats, so would that be more about dropping the headsail, hoisting the staysail and pulling effort back towards the centre of the boat in heavier air in order to balance the boat better?

I'd be interested to hear from people with this set up and how they use it?

G'day 2bish,
Yes, the normal mode is to downsize the headsail to the staysail.
We do this at about 20-25kn, under staysail we definitely point better , up to 3-5 deg, so bringing the balance point in closer to the mast (inner forestay) works.
A spinnaker/staysail/main is great fun on any reach.
On the 4 sail reaching , adding a headsail adds a lot of complexity/load and is a bit weird for me at least.
One thing is the headsail halyard sheaves need to be apart from your staysail or spinnaker sheaves, or the heads of the sail will interfere with each other. Mine is ok but a masthead spinnaker would be better, open the head a bit more.

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shaggybaxter said..

2bish said..

shaggybaxter said..

andy59 said..
The footage is mesmerising interesting to see the difference between the 4 sail and 3 sail setups

I've been tossing up whether to try this gennaker/headsail/staysail combo thingy , but having no backstay is making me me pause !!

I see a lot of boats with staysail set up's down here in Tas. Mostly cruising boats, so would that be more about dropping the headsail, hoisting the staysail and pulling effort back towards the centre of the boat in heavier air in order to balance the boat better?

I'd be interested to hear from people with this set up and how they use it?

G'day 2bish,
Yes, the normal mode is to downsize the headsail to the staysail.
We do this at about 20-25kn, under staysail we definitely point better , up to 3-5 deg, so bringing the balance point in closer to the mast (inner forestay) works.
A spinnaker/staysail/main is great fun on any reach.
On the 4 sail reaching , adding a headsail adds a lot of complexity/load and is a bit weird for me at least.
One thing is the headsail halyard sheaves need to be apart from your staysail or spinnaker sheaves, or the heads of the sail will interfere with each other. Mine is ok but a masthead spinnaker would be better, open the head a bit more.

Ah good one, that all makes sense! Must be a good to be able to do that level of fine tuning, might think about it for Mawson down the track.

On a cruiser tri or quad sail setup could be viable in low winds if crew is available.
My difficulty with this set up is, when single handing, it is lots of work for very moderate gain. After all l am cruising.

On my Adams 28 l have a reacher with 6.3m foot which l could run inside or outside. If l run it inside, l attach the tack to the welded shackle on the plate next to the forestay and tack it like a huge genoa. It is impossible to do this with the cutter stay attached. If l run it outside l attach the tack to the arch on the bowsprit with a snap shackle, outside everything. In the first instance l can tack normally while in the second l must tack the big sail outside the forestay and this makes it too difficult to handle three sails at once, single handed. One needs an extra long sheet for this to boot and must be very careful with the helm so it is impossible to use the auto-tack function on the auto pilot which is perfect when only tacking with a single jib.

My jib is a 120% furler genoa, which is difficult to tack with the cutter stay attached and is better be furled half way to pass the cutter stay and then let out again. Hence the need for crew. (guess, l could fully furl it , tack the rest and unfurl it again)

The staysail is self tacking without a track.
If there was a crew of two or more it would be a viable, though laborious option.
Last time l tried a four sail set up we were sailing back from Port Stevens with one crew in a near zephyr. Speed increased only 0.8 knots with all that effort. Well, racing is another world!

Running is a different story, if the need arises l am able to use a tri-setup. Genoa poled out wward the big reacher balanced on the lward side. If needed l scandalise the main or drop it. If l keep it up l always use a preventer, twin- rigged.
Or just bend the kite, instead.

G'day Sir G,
Dumb question, is this orange line your cutter stay location? I'm always interested in the different terms we all use.
If so, where do you stow yours when it's detached?

Dumb question? Nah. The only dumb question I've heard of is the one never uttered.
Yep, spot on!
Here is the sail plan, digest it.

The stay is stowed on the front of the mast base clipped to a shackle.
To mobilise it, takes a minute with a snap shackle and a 4:1 purchase plus back stay adjustment. If used in higher winds or in a gale with storm sail l utilise the spectra running backstays which are clipped to the shrouds when parked.
To attach anything to the shrouds or mast base l use rubber rings cut from bike, car or truck inner tubes. They are super strong, super flexible, almost invisible, last a long time on the sun and cost next to nothing.

To 2bish, my masthead rig has a plate separating the two jib halyards from the two spinnaker halyards enough to be used in conjunction as seen on this old picture before the new rig was put in.

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sirgallivant said..
Dumb question? Nah. The only dumb question I've heard of is the one never uttered.
Yep, spot on!
Here is the sail plan, digest it.

The stay is stowed on the front of the mast base clipped to a shackle.
To mobilise it, takes a minute with a snap shackle and a 4:1 purchase plus back stay adjustment. If used in higher winds or in a gale with storm sail l utilise the spectra running backstays which are clipped to the shrouds when parked.
To attach anything to the shrouds or mast base l use rubber rings cut from bike, car or truck inner tubes. They are super strong, super flexible, almost invisible, last a long time on the sun and cost next to nothing.

To 2bish, my masthead rig has a plate separating the two jib halyards from the two spinnaker halyards enough to be used in conjunction as seen on this old picture before the new rig was put in.

Ah thanks, I'll have to take a shot of the top of my mast and post it for suggestions on a mount point. Yes I'd want it stowable too as my usual set up is a self tacking jib. I was thinking of something like you've got but use a highfield lever for tension.

And here is Dongfeng getting under the Bolte this morning.

The sound of all the rigging creaking during this operation is sensational.

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2bish said..

shaggybaxter said..

andy59 said..
The footage is mesmerising interesting to see the difference between the 4 sail and 3 sail setups

I've been tossing up whether to try this gennaker/headsail/staysail combo thingy , but having no backstay is making me me pause !!

I see a lot of boats with staysail set up's down here in Tas. Mostly cruising boats, so would that be more about dropping the headsail, hoisting the staysail and pulling effort back towards the centre of the boat in heavier air in order to balance the boat better?

I'd be interested to hear from people with this set up and how they use it?

I have done that with my S&S34, a removable inner forestay attached to the anchor locker bulkhead when in use. I have a furling headsail on the forestay.
I run a storm jib on the inner forestay to use it as a staysail and as heavy weather sets in just furl the headsail until all that is left is the storm jib, which is closer to the mast than if set on the forestay.
It reduces the area for the headsail to get through when tacking so is only used offshore where I can furl the heady to tack, which isn't very often.

Select to expand quote

I have done that with my S&S34, a removable inner forestay attached to the anchor locker bulkhead when in use. I have a furling headsail on the forestay.
I run a storm jib on the inner forestay to use it as a staysail and as heavy weather sets in just furl the headsail until all that is left is the storm jib, which is closer to the mast than if set on the forestay.
It reduces the area for the headsail to get through when tacking so is only used offshore where I can furl the heady to tack, which isn't very often.

joe Walsh and I have been discussing a similar thing for my Little.

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MorningBird said..

2bish said..

shaggybaxter said..

andy59 said..
The footage is mesmerising interesting to see the difference between the 4 sail and 3 sail setups

I've been tossing up whether to try this gennaker/headsail/staysail combo thingy , but having no backstay is making me me pause !!

I see a lot of boats with staysail set up's down here in Tas. Mostly cruising boats, so would that be more about dropping the headsail, hoisting the staysail and pulling effort back towards the centre of the boat in heavier air in order to balance the boat better?

I'd be interested to hear from people with this set up and how they use it?

I have done that with my S&S34, a removable inner forestay attached to the anchor locker bulkhead when in use. I have a furling headsail on the forestay.
I run a storm jib on the inner forestay to use it as a staysail and as heavy weather sets in just furl the headsail until all that is left is the storm jib, which is closer to the mast than if set on the forestay.
It reduces the area for the headsail to get through when tacking so is only used offshore where I can furl the heady to tack, which isn't very often.

G'day MB,
How do you tension your inner forestay?

Select to expand quote

shaggybaxter said..

MorningBird said..

2bish said..

shaggybaxter said..

andy59 said..
The footage is mesmerising interesting to see the difference between the 4 sail and 3 sail setups

I've been tossing up whether to try this gennaker/headsail/staysail combo thingy , but having no backstay is making me me pause !!

I see a lot of boats with staysail set up's down here in Tas. Mostly cruising boats, so would that be more about dropping the headsail, hoisting the staysail and pulling effort back towards the centre of the boat in heavier air in order to balance the boat better?

I'd be interested to hear from people with this set up and how they use it?

I have done that with my S&S34, a removable inner forestay attached to the anchor locker bulkhead when in use. I have a furling headsail on the forestay.
I run a storm jib on the inner forestay to use it as a staysail and as heavy weather sets in just furl the headsail until all that is left is the storm jib, which is closer to the mast than if set on the forestay.
It reduces the area for the headsail to get through when tacking so is only used offshore where I can furl the heady to tack, which isn't very often.

G'day MB,
How do you tension your inner forestay?

Often running backstays are used with staysails they should tension the inner forestay but can be a pain for a single hander at times

Select to expand quote

dialdan said..

shaggybaxter said..

MorningBird said..

2bish said..

shaggybaxter said..

andy59 said..
The footage is mesmerising interesting to see the difference between the 4 sail and 3 sail setups

I've been tossing up whether to try this gennaker/headsail/staysail combo thingy , but having no backstay is making me me pause !!

I see a lot of boats with staysail set up's down here in Tas. Mostly cruising boats, so would that be more about dropping the headsail, hoisting the staysail and pulling effort back towards the centre of the boat in heavier air in order to balance the boat better?

I'd be interested to hear from people with this set up and how they use it?

I have done that with my S&S34, a removable inner forestay attached to the anchor locker bulkhead when in use. I have a furling headsail on the forestay.
I run a storm jib on the inner forestay to use it as a staysail and as heavy weather sets in just furl the headsail until all that is left is the storm jib, which is closer to the mast than if set on the forestay.
It reduces the area for the headsail to get through when tacking so is only used offshore where I can furl the heady to tack, which isn't very often.

G'day MB,
How do you tension your inner forestay?

Often running backstays are used with staysails they should tension the inner forestay but can be a pain for a single hander at times

G'day DD,
Yep, I'm with you regards runners if it's a permanent inner forestay. But MB's refers to removable , and that adds complexity for tensioning. As 2bish mentioned, most use a high field tensioner or a small n:1 block setup. The trick is achieving something that ends up where the tack is not 3' off the deck.
I use a set of antil rings in the anchor locker for example. I get a kick out of the engineering aspect and the different approaches to solving a problem, hence my query .
Cheers,
SB

I've got something like a rachet spanner on a threaded rod on the removable inner forestay on my new boat it's a neat unit but maybe a bit heavy, I'll take a pic next time I'm on the boat

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andy59 said..
I've got something like a rachet spanner on a threaded rod on the removable inner forestay on my new boat it's a neat unit but maybe a bit heavy, I'll take a pic next time I'm on the boat

I use a highfield type lever that I made to tension the inner forestay and use checkstays to oppose that tension. The tack is at deck level.
I can stow the inner forestay at the toe rail just forward of the cap chainplates and pull the slack out of it with a hook so it dosen't flop around chipp'n paint off the rig.