Evening all,

So I bit the bullet and had some new stainless pushpit/pullpit and staunchions made up about 4mths ago. Just as I was recovering from the financial shock of doing so I noticed some corrosion on the pushpit, especially where the metal was worked harder. I know this as the original build was incorrect with two corner rails vs one complete rail. So confidence was dented. First couple of pics show pre-polish appearance. I had a go with some stainless polish from WW and took most of the rust off, just some darker spots in the corners of the joint. Raised the issue of some slight corrosion with fabricator who said it was some initial effect that would discontinue after time. So question is - have I been fleeced? Is there such a settling in effect (as I write it, sounds unlikely) or is this not 316 or poor 316?? Other points on the rail where has a slight nick or scratch has seen some spots of rust. Cheers, FM26.

First things first that is some rubbish welding and is in my opinion a warranty issue before anything else

I am in the Stainless fabrication business and I can tell you if one of my first year apprentices did a weld on a boat like that I would kick him up the ass. There is a little truth in what he said about the rust will settle, but if it was polished correctly it should not show up. Any grind marks or scratches will also show rust. There was some ****ty 316 round the place. You can chemically test to see if is 316. I hope you did not pay top dollar for a job like that. On my boat you can not even see the welds as they are perfectly ground and polished. I will take some photos tomorrow and post. I must admit when you do a job for the boss, you make sure it is perfect. The welds I will show tomorrow take about 4 hours each to weld and polish, so at $100/hr that makes them $400.00 + gst each weld which most people do not want to pay, but it is amazing how many people do want a high end job and are happy to pay.
PS. The best stainless polish I have found for boats is a product called " Purple Polish "

Folkboat, I feel for you.
I noticed significant tarnish after 12 months on my new boat. I have to polish it to remove it, but when it's polished its like new again, no stain at all. There is none of the black pitting or weld marks that are evident in your picture.
So , if mine doesn't look like this after 12 months, and doesn't have the weld marks, you haven't got a fit for purpose job, I believe you have every right to complain.
It certainly looks like an inferior job to me for a marine environment. I defer to others on if it could be 316 or not.
Jode5, I'm always interested in a good SS polish. I use Wichard Greenox, have you used it, and if so how does Purple polish compare? Sorry for thread hijack.
SB

Hi all

A local boat builder told me yesterday to keep the stainless clean and shining on his boat he mixes 2 parts windex with 1 part baby oil in a spray bottle

I haven't tried it but he said it works well

Regards Don

There is a product made here in town called Metal Gleam. It's just a mixture of acids. It's used locally by the fishing industry to clean down paint work [removes rust streaks] cleans fibreglass and does a brilliant job on stainless steel. It's meant for cleaning stainless steel but works well all over the boat. Just slop it over everything with a soft boom and hose off.

looks like a very bad stick or mig weld, make sure this guy can tig weld next time.much cleaner and localised heat spread.no need to grind and polish that is only for people who cannot put down an attractive looking run.

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theace said..
looks like a very bad stick or mig weld, make sure this guy can tig weld next time.much cleaner and localised heat spread.no need to grind and polish that is only for people who cannot put down an attractive looking run.

One of the problems with forums are people commenting on things they know nothing about. Theace your comments are totally incorrectly and should be disregarded by readers. Acid treatment, grinding and polishing are all necessary processes in ensuring a rust free job in a marine environment. Also the above weld does look like a poor tig weld with a poor agon gas supply. My company is below.

www.ajcmetal.com.au

The first two photos are of high quality welds (by AJC) and the third is of what is a standard quality that you would find on most boats (by Hanse) which is quite acceptable

32mm tube welded to an Edson ball rail mount. This weld can not be done without grinding and polishing and a first class tradesmen.

Staunchion Of high quality ( not the loop welds)




Acceptable quality standard welds.

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FolkboatM26 said..
Raised the issue of some slight corrosion with fabricator who said it was some initial effect that would discontinue after time.

Obviosly your fabricator is unaware of the fact that you can't polish a turd.
From the looks of it he ran too hot and too slow with caused him to deposit a number of large tacks rather then any continuos welds. Not cleaning the tubes properly before welding, tungsten inclusion and unsteady hands didn't help the weld looks either. I'm guessing he just used a flap disk and buffing wheel to try and make it look pretty and didn't bother to do any pickling /pasivation of the welds afterwards.

Any chance you can take it back to the fabricator and shame him into having it cleaned up a bit more then pickled and pasivated properly ?

sorry jodes my( bad) plenty of experience land welding but not in a marine environment. I withdraw my welding comments. I owe you a beer.

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Harb said..

FolkboatM26 said..
Raised the issue of some slight corrosion with fabricator who said it was some initial effect that would discontinue after time.

Obviosly your fabricator is unaware of the fact that you can't polish a turd.
From the looks of it he ran too hot and too slow with caused him to deposit a number of large tacks rather then any continuos welds. Not cleaning the tubes properly before welding, tungsten inclusion and unsteady hands didn't help the weld looks either. I'm guessing he just used a flap disk and buffing wheel to try and make it look pretty and didn't bother to do any pickling /pasivation of the welds afterwards.

Any chance you can take it back to the fabricator and shame him into having it cleaned up a bit more then pickled and pasivated properly ?

I'm with you Harb, it certainly has not been acid treated / passivated / pickled or what ever term they want to use. It also looks like the flapper disk has been used on mild steel prior to being used on the stainless.
Just in case any one notices the standard weld by Hanse in the above photos has actually been electro polished which the best way to polish in the marine environment. Electro polishing will with stand rusting far better than any other process.

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theace said..
looks like a very bad stick or mig weld, make sure this guy can tig weld next time.much cleaner and localised heat spread.no need to grind and polish that is only for people who cannot put down an attractive looking run.

I am a trade qualified Boilermaker and I agree mostly with theace.
A nice tig weld does not need grinding and only a little polishing. Acid pickling is also necessary.
The welds in the photos, particularly the first one looks to have porosity and other nasty inclusions. Looks to have been done with a mig on a windy day. One rooky mistake is to use a grinding wheel that has been used on mild steel previously. It will embed imputities that inevitably end up in the weld.
An old saying in my trade is that angle grinders were invented to make bad welders look good.

Thank you everyone for the comments - truly appreciated. Where to from here? If its a case of some ordinary looking craftsmanship but the surface rust tends to dissipate with a few polishes, and the structural integrity is OK, then I can "live and learn" with it. The boat is not perfect in other areas and so wouldn't be entirely out of place! If the above doesn't apply, then I will have to chase down the fabricator, and given the original job took an absolute age - about a month to fit (shipwright's fault that one - couldn't keep the water out), then it could be a long and drawn out process....guess that is why second hand boats are pretty cheap these days - not much honest talent at reasonable prices to fix then up! Maybe I need better connections....

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This is my agriculture welding, no grinding or intense polishing, just a scrub with a wire brush and then some quikleen-s on a tooth brush.
Like mentioned earlier "You cant polish a turd" ,,,, no point having bling on my boat.

Interesting topic .... To give an idea of acceptable quality .... Thanks to all contributors !

Nice polishing work certainly to a higher standard than I ever needed to do. But, every weld on here shoes undercut on the top leg.
The "acceptable" one goes halfway through the wall. Y'all need rotatable jigs setting up.

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mrv said..
Nice polishing work certainly to a higher standard than I ever needed to do. But, every weld on here shoes undercut on the top leg.
The "acceptable" one goes halfway through the wall. Y'all need rotatable jigs setting up.

There is no undercut what so ever on any of the welds by AJC. There is undercut on the weld by Hanse Yachts, but this is quite acceptable in this situation. We use rotating jigs for production jobs but this is not possible on a scallop weld. We could use a robotic welder but unless you were making thousands of rails all the same it would not be worth it.
Undercutting and over grinding in a bigger problem when working with aluminium.

Good to see the passion and pride in workmanship and experience coming out in this thread.

Speaking only for own boat, I'm happy to see the weld's surface lays as long as there are no hooks to rip skin or clothing. And primarily, it must never break away under stress due to hidden weakness or corrosion (esp when I'm leaning over the pulpit pulling on the anchor chain).

Since I see some good SS welding knowledge on this thread, I have two general questions:

a) Is the temperature of the welded parts raised to the same level by all welding methods - Tig, Mig, Stick etc. - or are some methods substantially cooler than others?

b) Taking the example of a T-junction weld of 1-inch SS tubes; before grinding/sanding, is a "thin" run normally less strong than a "thick" run? Are there any other visual clues to the relative strength of two raw welds (pre grinding)?

Thanks

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Karsten said..
Good to see the passion and pride in workmanship and experience coming out in this thread.

Speaking only for own boat, I'm happy to see the weld's surface lays as long as there are no hooks to rip skin or clothing. And primarily, it must never break away under stress due to hidden weakness or corrosion (esp when I'm leaning over the pulpit pulling on the anchor chain).

Since I see some good SS welding knowledge on this thread, I have two general questions:

a) Is the temperature of the welded parts raised to the same level by all welding methods - Tig, Mig, Stick etc. - or are some methods substantially cooler than others?

Each process would be different, Stick probably the hottest but you would only use TIG on small diameter tubing.

b) Taking the example of a T-junction weld of 1-inch SS tubes; before grinding/sanding, is a "thin" run normally less strong than a "thick" run? Are there any other visual clues to the relative strength of two raw welds (pre grinding)?

There is point making the weld any bigger than the thinnest piece's thickness for obvious reasons.

If it took 4 hours to do an 1-1/2" tube weld I would sack you!
You should be able to fabricate the joint, weld it, passivate it & polish it in 2 hours max!

Thanks

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AUS 808 said..

Karsten said..
Good to see the passion and pride in workmanship and experience coming out in this thread.

Speaking only for own boat, I'm happy to see the weld's surface lays as long as there are no hooks to rip skin or clothing. And primarily, it must never break away under stress due to hidden weakness or corrosion (esp when I'm leaning over the pulpit pulling on the anchor chain).

Since I see some good SS welding knowledge on this thread, I have two general questions:

a) Is the temperature of the welded parts raised to the same level by all welding methods - Tig, Mig, Stick etc. - or are some methods substantially cooler than others?

Each process would be different, Stick probably the hottest but you would only use TIG on small diameter tubing.

b) Taking the example of a T-junction weld of 1-inch SS tubes; before grinding/sanding, is a "thin" run normally less strong than a "thick" run? Are there any other visual clues to the relative strength of two raw welds (pre grinding)?

There is point making the weld any bigger than the thinnest piece's thickness for obvious reasons.

If it took 4 hours to do an 1-1/2" tube weld I would sack you!
You should be able to fabricate the joint, weld it, passivate it & polish it in 2 hours max!

Thanks

Aus 808 I should clarify my photos above. The photo of the quality tube T weld is not absolutely perfect and you can see there is a weld there and yes this weld could be done under two hrs. The weld on the Edson ball is a perfect weld with not a sign of a blemish on the ball, weld or tube. The is the type of weld people expect on a concourse car or boat. This is the weld that will take four hours and need a first class welder to do it. Welders that can weld to this quality are few and far between and you certainly do not sack them if you want to service high end customers.
PS. I agree with you other comments. I thing your comment in B is missing the word 'no' in front of point.