I would like the thoughts of others on this forum please.
I have an 85' Cavalier 28.
I only bought her early this year as my first sail boat from the last owner of 14 years and didn't bother with a survey as he supplied a 6 month old insurance survey which just mentioned minor blistering.
Turns out I should have got my own survey then as I subsequently sold the boat again a couple of months ago to buy something bigger and the buyers survey showed extensive blistering and the sale didn't proceed.
Apart from the blistering she is a nice boat; wheel steering with autopilot, electric windlass with cockpit controls, electric toilet with holding tank, 2014 rigging, excellent upholstery, Waeco fridge under seat etc etc.
We still want to get something bigger and my dilemma is do I sell now as she is and allow in the price or do I repair the blistering myself before selling?
The blistering is only shallow the surveyor said and he didn't find any signs of the acid smell which is apparently when it is deeper, but I estimate there will be a couple of hundred in total.
As I am honest I would mention it to any buyer whichever way it was sold but I am wondering if I do the repairs myself would a buyer be happy that it had been done right or would they prefer to do it themselves and do it as they would like?

Thanks

My last boat had many small blisters, not much bigger than my thumbnail mostly. I spent a couple of days digging them out, applying apoxy filler then primer and finally antifoul.
two years later some had come back but mostly ok.
If a buyer thinks he'll get an older plastic boat with zero blisters then he's going to be disappointed anyway.
The fix it job will cost you a haul out, some hard work sanding and new antifoul. So the next survey won't find and blisters but they will still be there.
If you go for the full sandblast back to gelcoat then you'll be up for many thousands and personally I wouldn't bother with that.
No boat has ever sunk from osmosis.

My boat had blisters when I purchased nearly 4 years ago.
I had it repaired properly soda blasted . After over 3 years slipping a couple of weeks ago no new blisters.

I guess that you can only weigh up the cost of repair verses a lower asking price, and being aware prices are ordinary ?
Its been said that osmosis hasn't sunk a boat YET, but they must get heavy ???

to do it properly I would estimate a couple of $ thousands, rather than a couple of hundreds. Did my 34ft yacht a couple of years ago and was around $6k by the time you factored in soda blasting, epoxy, interprotect, sanding, hauling in & out drying out fo 4 months, etc. And that was with myself carrying out scraping / sanding and applying all rhe epoxy and interprotect. Paid for contractors to do the soda blasting and sanding only. Good news is no issues with osmosis from the last 2 haulouts.

Ilenart

I'm a pretty much hands on guy and don't mind doing the work, I just would like to know if a potential buyer would prefer the work to be done already or to do it himself to their own standard?

Depends on the buyer I guess.

I'd prefer to do it myself - that way is know how extensive it had been and whether it was actually worth worrying about, or just something the seller had changed the price based on.

In a boat that old, I wouldn't actually care at all - it'd just be something I looked out when she came out next so I could go nuts with the sander/angle grinder.

If I were a potential buyer knowing that the boat had osmosis blisters, If I really had to have that boat I would rather do the work myself.
It's not really that hard or expensive to fix.

My boat was covered with blisters, I was told by the previous owner that the boat had "No Osmosis What So Ever" and I believe that's what he believed, meaning that I don't think he was lying to me. he was just repeating what he had been told. He had owned the boat for about 18 months. a previous owner before him new about the osmosis,,, so just painted it with epoxy high build primer and sold it,,,,Bogged it and flogged it.
I removed the gelcoat from the hull and dried the hull out for 3 years before re- coating. not what I had planned on doing when I bought the boat and If I had known, I wouldn't have bought it.

I looked at buying an ss 30 Defiance a few years ago that was going real cheap. The owner told me straight up it had blisters all over it so I walked away.,, Lots of boats out there to choose from.
I don't think that any GRP boats are immune from osmosis, its just a matter of time

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Cockpit said..
I would like the thoughts of others on this forum please.
I have an 85' Cavalier 28.
I only bought her early this year as my first sail boat from the last owner of 14 years and didn't bother with a survey as he supplied a 6 month old insurance survey which just mentioned minor blistering.
Turns out I should have got my own survey then as I subsequently sold the boat again a couple of months ago to buy something bigger and the buyers survey showed extensive blistering and the sale didn't proceed.
Apart from the blistering she is a nice boat; wheel steering with autopilot, electric windlass with cockpit controls, electric toilet with holding tank, 2014 rigging, excellent upholstery, Waeco fridge under seat etc etc.
We still want to get something bigger and my dilemma is do I sell now as she is and allow in the price or do I repair the blistering myself before selling?
The blistering is only shallow the surveyor said and he didn't find any signs of the acid smell which is apparently when it is deeper, but I estimate there will be a couple of hundred in total.
As I am honest I would mention it to any buyer whichever way it was sold but I am wondering if I do the repairs myself would a buyer be happy that it had been done right or would they prefer to do it themselves and do it as they would like?

Thanks

If a buyer is really interested, they will negotiate on the price. As others said, I'd rather know what I am walking into and have it sorted myself than trust the seller's/broker's word for it (apologies to all the honest boat owners, but there is a good chunk of dishonest owners/brokers out there).

Blisters/osmosis are mostly cosmetic (think of it wall painting pealing) that in 99% cases will not affect the structural integrity of the fiberglass, unless, obviously is neglected for years and when you touch it, your finger will go through it (actualy seen one of those).

Have an fair asking price, do not discount the price of your boat beacause you think it should be. Remember, if the buyer will suspect you selling too cheap, they will be cautious even looking at your boat.

My I ask, why don't you want to get it fixed and keep it for yourself as intended?

As mentioned, we only want to sell her to get something a bit bigger and newer as we enjoy being on the water (and in the marina) so much.
She was always intended as a trial boat to see if we liked the lifestyle and we do

I think if it the blistering is visually dramatic it will be really hard to sell the boat and you should fix it. If it doesn't look too bad then you won't get your money back it you fix it as buyers will still try and discount the boat.

A

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Dexport said..
My last boat had many small blisters, not much bigger than my thumbnail mostly. I spent a couple of days digging them out, applying apoxy filler then primer and finally antifoul.
two years later some had come back but mostly ok.
If a buyer thinks he'll get an older plastic boat with zero blisters then he's going to be disappointed anyway.
The fix it job will cost you a haul out, some hard work sanding and new antifoul. So the next survey won't find and blisters but they will still be there.
If you go for the full sandblast back to gelcoat then you'll be up for many thousands and personally I wouldn't bother with that.
No boat has ever sunk from osmosis.

I would agree and this would be my course of action.

I would repair first. Do it the cheapest way, but still do it properly.

I know people say that it is 'priced accordingly' but it is still something that a buyer latches onto. I'm still trying to sell a powerboat. It has been nearly two years. It is a lot of boat for the money I am asking, but I am not willing to drop it anymore to where the market is.

The last couple of interested buyers picked on the canvass work. I know how much it will cost to fix, but that still doesn't stop them from offering a stupid price citing the cost of a complete new set of canvas plus some..... They also refused to accept me in rectifying the problems. In other words, they are finding anything to negotiate the price as low as possible.

Unless you are prepared to give the boat away in the current market, the less the buyer perceives to be wrong with the boat the better price you should get.

I had a 36 foot power boat with the same problem. The blisters were not bad but enough to put a buyer off or want a substantial discount. So I had shipwrights do the full job on it including soder blast, heat blankets to remove all moisture, reglass, fair, epoxy and antifouling. I documented the entire process with photos including before and after photos. These were shown to The purchaser. The whole process cost $15,000.00. The first person to see the boat was the purchaser and the repairs are what sold the boat as the particular boats were known for osmosis. With this done he knew he was good for many years. I will never know whether I got my money back, but I know I sold a good boat and in the scheme of things it was only 5% of the value of the boat.

Thanks for the replies. There obviously has to be a limit on the cost involved due to the value of the boat and the main issue I see is that most people seem to advise a proper dry out period after opening the blisters and as the marinas charge $60 or $70 per day for it just to sit there drying, it could soon get very expensive...
Never having done any hull work or fibreglass repair myself is not a problem as I enjoy learning and getting my hands dirty but I have nowhere to do it but on a marina.

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Cockpit said..
Thanks for the replies. There obviously has to be a limit on the cost involved due to the value of the boat and the main issue I see is that most people seem to advise a proper dry out period after opening the blisters and as the marinas charge $60 or $70 per day for it just to sit there drying, it could soon get very expensive...
Never having done any hull work or fibreglass repair myself is not a problem as I enjoy learning and getting my hands dirty but I have nowhere to do it but on a marina.

Hi cockpit, they use heat blankets to dry the boat out and don't take that long. To do it properly you would not get any change out of 10k which would include the slipping and hard stand.

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Cockpit said..
Thanks for the replies. There obviously has to be a limit on the cost involved due to the value of the boat and the main issue I see is that most people seem to advise a proper dry out period after opening the blisters and as the marinas charge $60 or $70 per day for it just to sit there drying, it could soon get very expensive...
Never having done any hull work or fibreglass repair myself is not a problem as I enjoy learning and getting my hands dirty but I have nowhere to do it but on a marina.

In your initial post you mentioned the surveyor said there was no smell when he popped the blisters. This indicates to me that they are just blisters and I would put the boat on the slips, power wash the hull and grind out the blisters with a mini grinder. By the time you finish grinding the first one will be dry enough to fill with the filler of your choice. When that goes off a couple of passes with a disc sander and overcoat with several coats of special purpose grey primer of your choice. Couple of coats of antifoul and back in the water. Yes there are boats with osmosis out there But there are lots more with just blisters. I've seen boats drying out for months with the blisters ground out and there was no difference at the end of 6 months. Fibreglass hulls will always have some moisture content just like wood {not as much of course]. If you were to keep the boat then next time your on the slips repair any further blisters as they appear. Step away from the osmosis Koolaid.

In 2013 when l bought my tub, l spent three months on Moreton Bay in a friend's pen while his 42 feet Savage sloop was on the hard for osmosis repairs.
That's how it started. Occupying his Marina berth for nothing, it was the least thing to return his favor, l offered him a hand, so did other two of his mates. We started removing the accumulated inch thick non-ablative antuifoul which was a trial by itself.
After doing that for days on end, we had a 'clean' hull and started digging into Pandora's box!
The hull was infested with blisters dozens and dozens of them, ever growing deeper and deeper holes full of foul smelling acidy liquid. It was a nightmare. We kept on going for weeks and eventually had to finish the job while we were still discovering fresh blisters after weeks of grinding. There were places where we ground out a smallish blister and it opened up inside the glass and kept on expanding, us following it with the grinder creating 'caves' of 30mm deep and the size of a large book or bigger.
It was a nightmare job at ever increasing costs.
After six weeks of hard work we finished the job but it was never to my satisfaction. If it was my boat l would have had constant nightmares about it.
The chap bought it in SA and it was surveyed there before purchase and was given a clean bill of health!?

I am critical in the extreme of surveyors as I have not met a surveyor,yet, who's survey was worth the paper it was printed on. And I can prove it.

Cockpit, it is very hard to advise one - on a subject like this - who is a beginner to boot.
The fact is, you are going to lose on the boat, no matter what. I hope, in the future you are going to survey your purchase yourself after learning more about boats.
Checking for osmosis and delaminations is no rocket science, a small hammer and a good pair of ears and eyes what one needs. A moisture-meter might help if one is going high-tec. My views are extreme but life proved me right sofar.
You can not trust anyone, you got to do the job yourself.

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sirgallivant said..
In 2013 when l bought my tub, l spent three months on Moreton Bay in a friend's pen while his 42 feet Savage sloop was on the hard for osmosis repairs.
That's how it started. Occupying his Marina berth for nothing, it was the least thing to return his favor, l offered him a hand, so did other two of his mates. We started removing the accumulated inch thick non-ablative antuifoul which was a trial by itself.
After doing that for days on end, we had a 'clean' hull and started digging into Pandora's box!
The hull was infested with blisters dozens and dozens of them, ever growing deeper and deeper holes full of foul smelling acidy liquid. It was a nightmare. We kept on going for weeks and eventually had to finish the job while we were still discovering fresh blisters after weeks of grinding. There were places where we ground out a smallish blister and it opened up inside the glass and kept on expanding, us following it with the grinder creating 'caves' of 30mm deep and the size of a large book or bigger.
It was a nightmare job at ever increasing costs.
After six weeks of hard work we finished the job but it was never to my satisfaction. If it was my boat l would have had constant nightmares about it.
The chap bought it in SA and it was surveyed there before purchase and was given a clean bill of health!?

I am critical in the extreme of surveyors as I have not met a surveyor,yet, who's survey was worth the paper it was printed on. And I can prove it.

Cockpit, it is very hard to advise one - on a subject like this - who is a beginner to boot.
The fact is, you are going to lose on the boat, no matter what. I hope, in the future you are going to survey your purchase yourself after learning more about boats.
Checking for osmosis and delaminations is no rocket science, a small hammer and a good pair of ears and eyes what one needs. A moisture-meter might help if one is going high-tec. My views are extreme but life proved me right sofar.
You can not trust anyone, you got to do the job yourself.

May I ask what make was that "lemon" called a boats so I stay away from that brand in the future? Hope ig wasn't a swiss made, coz it sounds like cheese..

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Ramona said..

Cockpit said..
Thanks for the replies. There obviously has to be a limit on the cost involved due to the value of the boat and the main issue I see is that most people seem to advise a proper dry out period after opening the blisters and as the marinas charge $60 or $70 per day for it just to sit there drying, it could soon get very expensive...
Never having done any hull work or fibreglass repair myself is not a problem as I enjoy learning and getting my hands dirty but I have nowhere to do it but on a marina.

In your initial post you mentioned the surveyor said there was no smell when he popped the blisters. This indicates to me that they are just blisters and I would put the boat on the slips, power wash the hull and grind out the blisters with a mini grinder. By the time you finish grinding the first one will be dry enough to fill with the filler of your choice. When that goes off a couple of passes with a disc sander and overcoat with several coats of special purpose grey primer of your choice. Couple of coats of antifoul and back in the water. Yes there are boats with osmosis out there But there are lots more with just blisters. I've seen boats drying out for months with the blisters ground out and there was no difference at the end of 6 months. Fibreglass hulls will always have some moisture content just like wood {not as much of course]. If you were to keep the boat then next time your on the slips repair any further blisters as they appear. Step away from the osmosis Koolaid.

Would not agree that drying out makes no difference. The PO of my boat paid $5k to have the blisters "professionally" repaired including soda blasting, grinding out and filling/ epoxying the damage. However they did not dry out the hull. All the osmosis was back within 12-18 months. During the drying out period the "repairs" they had made started falling off. I ended up agrressively scraping them all and about half came completely off and they were visibly damp under the old repairs.

Whether you use heat blankets and / or leave out for 3-4 months, I believe this is an essential part of osmosis / blister repairs.

Ilenart

The blistering in Cockpits boat is only shallow and there is no smell that you get from osmosis {according to the surveyor]. I would treat it the same as any other defect in the boats hull.
There is a lot of money to be made from osmosis repairs!

Seabreeze, 're-read the fourth line in my post, please!

To be exact, it is a 1984 Savage Oceanic 42, btw.

In addition to drying out the chemicals in the glass fibres has to be flushed out, neutralised before they can be covered over. That is why it comes back.

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troubadour said..
In addition to drying out the chemicals in the glass fibres has to be flushed out, neutralised before they can be covered over. That is why it comes back.

what I did during the 4 month drying out was every week I pressure cleaned the hull with water to wash away any chemicals that was leaching out, particularly the bare patches. Then I taped clear plastic over a few of the bare patches to see if they were dry and kept doing it if moisture was condensing on the inside of the plastic. After 4 months no moisture so was happy that the hull had dried out.

Ilenart

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Cockpit said..
I would like the thoughts of others on this forum please.
I have an 85' Cavalier 28.
I only bought her early this year as my first sail boat from the last owner of 14 years and didn't bother with a survey as he supplied a 6 month old insurance survey which just mentioned minor blistering.
Turns out I should have got my own survey then as I subsequently sold the boat again a couple of months ago to buy something bigger and the buyers survey showed extensive blistering and the sale didn't proceed.
Apart from the blistering she is a nice boat; wheel steering with autopilot, electric windlass with cockpit controls, electric toilet with holding tank, 2014 rigging, excellent upholstery, Waeco fridge under seat etc etc.
We still want to get something bigger and my dilemma is do I sell now as she is and allow in the price or do I repair the blistering myself before selling?
The blistering is only shallow the surveyor said and he didn't find any signs of the acid smell which is apparently when it is deeper, but I estimate there will be a couple of hundred in total.
As I am honest I would mention it to any buyer whichever way it was sold but I am wondering if I do the repairs myself would a buyer be happy that it had been done right or would they prefer to do it themselves and do it as they would like?

Thanks

Personally I would say bog it and flog it!
That is to say do a reasonably good job on it and it should sell much more easily in this crappy market.

Well I'm no clearer on which way to go as there are people on both sides of the fence as to sell as is or repair properly or do it cheaply...
i think I will probably get a quote or 2 from the professionals first and see what they say.
thanks for the replies again and I will post again when I have more news.
cheers