Hi all again,

I am looking at buying a second hand Fleming wind vane. There are a few around of various age and condition. Unfortunately none are available where I live, in Melbourne.

Does anyone have any advice on what to look out for on second hand wind vanes ? Would you buy one sight unseen ?

Andrew

Select to expand quote

Andrew68 said..
Hi all again,

I am looking at buying a second hand Fleming wind vane. There are a few around of various age and condition. Unfortunately none are available where I live, in Melbourne.

Does anyone have any advice on what to look out for on second hand wind vanes ? Would you buy one sight unseen ?

Andrew

Which Fleming? Even the old ones are worth having though the early ones might be a bit heavy for your boat. The Currawong does not need that much to steer her. These are the newer versions. They are pretty industrial and parts are available. I would have no qualms buying one sight unseen. Morningbird has one and will probably comment when he gets out of bed. Jessica Watson used one as well.

I bought mine two boats ago from Tasmania sight unseen $1800.

It is probably undersize for my current boat, but with a little reinforcing (on the brackets) has sailed over 5000nm.

I've only recently got an autopilot for motoring so this steers for 99% of the time. I hate steering offshore.

Santana gets wild weather helm if the sails aren't trimmed right - so the fleming works hard, but I have no qualms in setting out across the Tasman with her on the helm!

There is very little to go wrong with them, and they are easily repaired. the installation is the part to get right - I had a very tricky install on a canoe stern with a transom hung rudder.

This photo shows her in marina mode (blade up).

I bought an Aries lift up model #5 for $500 off Gumtree. Its probably one of the most robust wind vanes I have ever seen and the ability to remove it from the transom in a flash is awesome. Parts for Aries are available from Europe but if too many parts are required, you could end up with an expensive rebuilt vane.

I bought a Fleming 401 off an S&S34 that had completed a circumnavigation. I bolted it to my boat and it has done a few thousand more miles on Morning Bird.

Almost impossible to wear them out and parts are readily available. I make vanes out of marine ply. They do break so I carry a half a dozen. Just make sure you varnish them as the timber will split when it gets soaked.

I paid $1800 also, seems to be common price for them second hand.

If you had to choose between vane or a tp22 tiller pilot for a trip up the coast , which 1?

I have a TP32 tiller pilot. I use it inshore as it steers to waypoints etc so will follow a track.
The Fleming I use for offshore passages. It is easy to just let it go and only check the heading occasionally on long passages.
If you had to choose between one or the other for purely coastal work I'd get the TP32.
Reasons
It is cheaper and simpler.
With the Fleming constant wind changes create a workload.
Regular tacks and gybes require the boat to be turned to the new course and vane reset. At night it is a pain if done often.
Crew take some time to master the Fleming, the tiller pilot is much easier (still requires familiarity).
The TP uses a fair bit of power so you need good batteries and charging.

Select to expand quote

Sectorsteve said..
If you had to choose between vane or a tp22 tiller pilot for a trip up the coast , which 1?

I personally would not bother with a tp22 unless you want to motor. I use my windvane all the time, even tried it just motoring up the river bare poled. The variable current rules that out though.

This is just for Andrew68 to show how mine is attached to the stern of my Currawong. The U shaped SS angle is bolted to one bolt one each pushpit base and a vertical rod up from where the step was. The windvane is bolted to this with two SS bolts so it can be removed quickly and easily.

Select to expand quote

Ramona said...

Sectorsteve said..
If you had to choose between vane or a tp22 tiller pilot for a trip up the coast , which 1?

I personally would not bother with a tp22 unless you want to motor. I use my windvane all the time, even tried it just motoring up the river bare poled. The variable current rules that out though.

For a few hours of potteting around Ramona the vane can be ok, but on coasts passage for 24 hours or more the vane is a handful. The TP32 is so much better than the 22, on the specs anyway, I would still recommend the TP for coastal work.

You can also make your own vane, such as out of bicycle parts, or use the bevel off a hand drill like with this one. I have the rest of this and other similar articles if you like.

I have a Norvane, very similar in appearance to the Flemings being assembled in the factory photo. I have a spare hydrofoil (rudder part) as it was a replacement under warranty, but I fixed the original - the thing began to split (foam core?) but I epoxied it together.
I found the tillerpilot convenient for weekends, but the windvane was more responsive and powerful and I'd trust it more, but yeah, tacking and shorter trips were more effort. Depends on your battery power too.

Where i can id sheet to tiller, otherwise tiller pilot. Id have 200ah batteries in my tophat.

Select to expand quote

FabulousPhill said..
You can also make your own vane, such as out of bicycle parts, or use the bevel off a hand drill like with this one. I have the rest of this and other similar articles if you like.

I have a Norvane, very similar in appearance to the Flemings being assembled in the factory photo. I have a spare hydrofoil (rudder part) as it was a replacement under warranty, but I fixed the original - the thing began to split (foam core?) but I epoxied it together.
I found the tillerpilot convenient for weekends, but the windvane was more responsive and powerful and I'd trust it more, but yeah, tacking and shorter trips were more effort. Depends on your battery power too.

If you look at the photo above you will see my version of that windvane in that article. When I switched from a Z crank style windvane I used that article for inspiration. Mine has the tiller at the rear and instead of hand drill gears I bought Delrin one off the shelf. Dimensions and ratios are identical to Flemings and Monitors.

Those Norvanes are nice pieces of kit. Did you import yours?

Select to expand quote

Sectorsteve said..
Where i can id sheet to tiller, otherwise tiller pilot. Id have 200ah batteries in my tophat.

You would also have a very irritating noise with a tiller pilot.

Phil;

Can you post, or email the full article please?

Cheers, Graeme

I am also pretty interested in this thread. Was reading about this last night: www.windvaneselfsteering.co.uk

Unfortunately I don't have the tools but it gets quite a good rap.

that said the plans cost GBP150 and the kit is GBP350 which is quite dear.

and true to form I have blundered on this thread which would have saved me some hassles had I looked for it on Seabreeze first!

www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/Sailing/General/Hebridean-Wind-Vane/

I mainly sail singlehanded and built servo pendulum gear for my 8.8 m yacht. It works well , required minimal welding , is strong , light weight (about 10kg) and can be easily removed by undoing one grub screw. It's now been on the boat for 20+ years .
www.google.co.nz/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwj3j42Q05LOAhWHlZQKHTA6DGUQtwIIGjAA&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DKOIc8qCq6R8&usg=AFQjCNESLhv0q9q788ZgzAOVzzzbq-jBFQ&bvm=bv.128153897,d.dGo

Yes Ramona, I imported it about 12 years ago for a steel yacht. I economised by not importing the arms, as they'd be a second package and bulky. A local yacht rail welder man did the arms to suit.

middle page

PM sent re: further scans of other DIY windvanes.

Select to expand quote

FabulousPhill said..
You can also make your own vane, such as out of bicycle parts, ................

I made one from here a while back.

web.archive.org/web/20060615134126/http://www.mindspring.com/~waltmur/Self-Steering/

Hi Ramona,

what ratio of the bevel gears did you use?, I see a set of Delrin gears which are 1 to 1 ratio, looking at your setup on youtube it looks to be about 2 to 1.

Bill

Select to expand quote

Ramona said..


Which Fleming? Even the old ones are worth having though the early ones might be a bit heavy for your boat. The Currawong does not need that much to steer her. These are the newer versions. They are pretty industrial and parts are available. I would have no qualms buying one sight unseen. Morningbird has one and will probably comment when he gets out of bed. Jessica Watson used one as well.

Romona,

As you have suggested, I am after one of the “slimline” Fleming models.

I was surprised how easily my Currawong was to trim in the right conditions. Even with just the genoa, I can leave my hand off the tiller for 20 minutes at a time and almost made it across the top of Port Phillip with both sails on a stable heading. There is however, a small sacrifice in speed, to get everything balanced.

Thanks for the shot of your stern detail. I like the ideal of linking into the existing stern fittings. The newer Flemings seem to have two lower arms and one centre line arm, so I am not sure if I can utilise the rail footings or not, by reversing this configuration.

It is pretty temping to embark on a DYI wind vane, but I have enough DYI elsewhere to keep me occupied for the time being.

Thanks for the feedback and discussion so far.

A

Select to expand quote

Lazzarae said..

FabulousPhill said..
You can also make your own vane, such as out of bicycle parts, ................

I made one from here a while back.

web.archive.org/web/20060615134126/http://www.mindspring.com/~waltmur/Self-Steering/

First vane I built was one of those.

Select to expand quote

Propwalk said..
Hi Ramona,

what ratio of the bevel gears did you use?, I see a set of Delrin gears which are 1 to 1 ratio, looking at your setup on youtube it looks to be about 2 to 1.

Bill

Yes 2:1. The ratios and dimensions are pretty much the same for all the manufacturers. The materials are often different and the layouts vary but they are remarkably similar. I chose the layout like the Monitors simply because it was easier to built. Having the pushrod through a tube like the Flemings etc takes some lining up. Their factories would be setting these up in a jig to weld etc. It's easy to build a windvane for less than $100 in SS but the labour in hours spent is very high. A secondhand kit from any of the major builders in any condition would be a good buy. Don't be put off by sloppy fittings, they work better that way.
This is my unit from some time ago. There have been changes since then.

I've got this Navik wind vane which was working fine when I removed it from the boat. The Navik doesn't use gears, instead it uses linkages to control an aileron on the servo rudder. They are a great unit and have a pretty good break out system if the servo rudder is fowled and a simple rope quadrant to provide the movement to the tiller.
You see them for sale second hand from time to time.

I have a used navik that looks pretty new that I got for $400 , yet to fit it and test but some of the parts look fairly flimsy and hard to replace with home made bits at sea. I used a windpilot model recently that worked well and seemed strong and simple.

Select to expand quote

tomooh said..
yet to fit it and test but some of the parts look fairly flimsy and hard to replace with home made bits at sea.

That's why I swapped over to the Aries,

Do any of you have any experiences with the hydrovane type of self steering with an an auxiliary rudder? It looks like a good idea for centre cockpit wheel steer boats and I like the idea of having emergency steering immediately available if required.

The Norvane has a square socket in the bevel gear, so that you can insert a square bit of steel with a handle. I think you have to lash the vane from the side to side motion, but the provision exists. I made a socket to fit mine, but I haven't used it. It's there for a rainy day.

Select to expand quote

japie said..
and true to form I have blundered on this thread which would have saved me some hassles had I looked for it on Seabreeze first!

www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/Sailing/General/Hebridean-Wind-Vane/

Actually a Horizontal Wind Vane. I reverse engineered one of these in 2014/15. It's sitting in my old packhouse.

Why, the thing is far too heavy in timber and I will have to rebuild in SS tube.

Its also cumbersome on the back of a small yacht, that aspect also needs looking at.

There are design faults that can be overcome with a bit of lateral thinking.

But that's for next year and until then the old TP10 auto pilot is fine.