Have been listening on Abc radio about this rescue he was drifting NOT sinking nor was there any severe weather no where near what you would expect to encounter on this passage.
His only problem was he couldnt start his engine come on this is a sail vessel and he set off his Epirb as usual our great rescue service swung into action if life was at risk the cost would be of no consequence but if people are going to call wolf it wont take to long where the laws will stop the averge yacht person from being able to live the adventure of the sea and the freedom it brings.

m.coffscoastadvocate.com.au/news/coordinated-sea-rescue-underway-coast-coffs-harbou/2275878/
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From the report it seems this is a 54 foot yacht being sailed singlehanded! Is it just bad reporting or has this vessel lost the ability to keep the fridge running!

Of course after glancing down the page I see the story has been covered in another thread. I guess you are getting at why do people have to keep saving these people. Most likely if it had happened in my local area the police or rescue association would have left the boat after taking off the sailor. A 54 foot ketch would have enormously heavy equipment for a single bloke to handle though at least a furling headsail would be enough to get you home. There is no rush to get anywhere in this size vessel, even if it took a fortnight to get back. The only thing missing was good seamanship.

I feel if you set of a Epirb then it tells the rescue people you consider things so dire that you need personial rescue and have given up on rescuing your yacht .. Not come over and tow me 200 miles

There is legislation in place for the full costs of the search and rescue to be charged to you. I feel that in cases where there is no imminent danger to life and a "rescue" had to be effected then the costs of that "rescue" should be charged back to the person that iniated said rescue.

At the other end of the spectrum, where a person has done everything by the book ie. had all the required safety equipment on board and was so crippled in the water as to be totally disabled, then by all means go and rescue that person, then blow your own horn about how good your SAR services are. Case in point, Tony Bullimore, that man did everything correctly and still could not manage to extricate himself from the situation he found himself in. What a brilliant rescue effort that was and yet people still bang on about the cost of that rescue. I say the rescue cost nothing as it involved mainly miltary assets and those people had to be paid anyway. The good publicity that came from the is worth many times the costs involved.

In a previous life during my time in the RAN I was a SAR operative and had cause to rescue a family trapped by a flash flood in their four wheel drive vehicle on a bush track, ok, can happen to anyone, but then to have to go and rescue that same family two weeks later in nearly the same spot to me borders on stupidity and they should have been charged, both by the police for reckless endangerment and by the rescue authority to recoup the costs.

Solo sailing on that sized yacht on that sort of trip, in my opinion, is irresponsible if the yacht is not in tip top condition.

Many of us make judgement calls without having all the information.

The station he spoke with in Tasmania I believe is run by a fisherman's widow and has a good reputation. That would have been via HF radio which is not always reliable for 2 way communication.

His situation seems to have worsened and he set off his EPIRB as he probably had no other form of communication. An EPIRB activation is equivalent to a M'aide (Mayday, French for Help me, call) and are only supposed to be made when there is immenent danger of loss of life and or vessel. The former goes with the latter.

The authorities compel us to carry an array of safety gear including EPIRBs which we are expected to use when necessary.

The SAR assetts have been put in place to prevent loss of life at sea. The operative word here is prevent, ie something to be done before an event such as the loss of life.

This begs the question:- When does one make the emergengy call before an inevitable loss of vessel and subsequent loss of life???? 24 hours before, 12 hours before or maybe 1 hour before is just the right time.

The pay day for emergency services is when LIFE IS SAVED no matter what the financial cost is. We all need to keep that in mind!!!!

Saying things like:- "Toughen up you wuss. Hoist your sails and sail your way out of it." is just ludicrous. The only one qualified to say that is someone who is actually there, not someone reading the news.

Accidents do not just happen. They are either caused or prevented.

A prevention measure for these types of events may be a compulsory seaworthiness and safety inspection of all yachts immediately prior to being given customs clearance. Also an assessment of the competency of all persons on board should be done. Freedom is one thing and foolishness is another.

Commercial vessels are subject to all sorts of inspections before clearance for parts foreign, why not private vessels??

On the point of towing the vessel in 200 miles. Either that has to be done or the vessel scuttled. That choice has to me made on the day, on location. It cannot be left to float around causing a hazard to other shipping.

So:- WHAT HAS TO BE DONE ABOUT THIS RESCUE???

The rescue has happened and is therefore being logged as a marine incident which will no doubt be the subject of a marine inquiry. There are people being paid to do this, reach conclusions and make judgements and or recommendations.

Judge not lest ye be judged.

Has he been picked up yet? The article I read made it sound like they'd dropped a raft/comms equipment off to him and he was unable to retrieve.
Like has been said... it seems like a big boat to take deep waters on solo.
As an active volunteer member of the coast guard, I have no problem with the emergency services being utilised. That's what they're there for and the more callouts they get the more their experience grows.
I'd be interested in reading more about this sailor?s story. I'm sure we could all learn from it.

Where is the emergency Cisco ??? The hull is intact it has its masts plenty of sea room since when does an engine not starting become a life threatning event warranting setting
off an Epirb? .
If you think a bloke should be setting off on such a serious journey then sets a Epirb off because his engine wont start is ok then you are entitled to your opinion as i am mine.
Your a fine one on judgments your opinions are plastered every where on here.

Opinions are like assholes, everyone has one and they think each others stinks.

Sometimes the fault is in the quality of the news reporting. But in this case it seems the tow is not justified.

Hi all, when I brought my boat from Pittwater to Mooloolaba early April we ran into a few problems off south Stradbroke island, in the confusion of the boom going over the side ( the mainsheet came off the traveler, lucky we had a preventer rigged so the boom could be retrieved ) and the genoa splitting near the top we discovered that the jib sheet had somehow lost it's stopper knot and went over the side and got caught around the prop.

We had been keeping contact with the coast guard on the trip and had contacted them when we left Southport at 2300hrs, we informed them of our mishap with the jib sheet at around 2am, they asked if we could sail we said we could, they asked us to keep in contact with them and to give them an ETA for Mooloolaba entrance and the would meet us and give a tow in.

They do a mighty job and very professional, the tow went without a hitch. By the way the tow was not free there are costs involved but worth every penny.

The jib sheet went around the prop when we were sailing not motoring, to try and start the engine in that situation the worst thing that could happen would be to rip the prop shaft out of the boat and then we would have a real Mayday on our hands.

In this situation I felt that a call to the rescue service was justified considering the wind 25kts+ and the seas running 4+ mtrs the thought of entering the harbor under sail was a bit beyond our skills on the night.

If your problems are real and you need assistance and for the safety boat and crew, "make the call".

Bill

Bill,

I think you made the right call. Sounds like you got to the harbour bar under your own steam and asked for minimal assistance.

Straddie is usually a lee shore on the Eastern side as well, so job well done.

Your closing comments sound right, exercise some seamanship/ prudent judgement and call on the assistance when other options are exhausted without endangering the crew.

Yup, was definately a good call on your part Bill.

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Propwalk said..

Hi all, when I brought my boat from Pittwater to Mooloolaba early April we ran into a few problems off south Stradbroke island, in the confusion of the boom going over the side ( the mainsheet came off the traveler, lucky we had a preventer rigged so the boom could be retrieved ) and the genoa splitting near the top we discovered that the jib sheet had somehow lost it's stopper knot and went over the side and got caught around the prop.

We had been keeping contact with the coast guard on the trip and had contacted them when we left Southport at 2300hrs, we informed them of our mishap with the jib sheet at around 2am, they asked if we could sail we said we could, they asked us to keep in contact with them and to give them an ETA for Mooloolaba entrance and the would meet us and give a tow in.

They do a mighty job and very professional, the tow went without a hitch. By the way the tow was not free there are costs involved but worth every penny.

The jib sheet went around the prop when we were sailing not motoring, to try and start the engine in that situation the worst thing that could happen would be to rip the prop shaft out of the boat and then we would have a real Mayday on our hands.

In this situation I felt that a call to the rescue service was justified considering the wind 25kts+ and the seas running 4+ mtrs the thought of entering the harbor under sail was a bit beyond our skills on the night.

If your problems are real and you need assistance and for the safety boat and crew, "make the call".

Bill

That's exactly it. As to whether it is considered grave and inament danger or not is very subjective. Whether he should've been out there or not is another question. Most people on this forum would probably sail in one direction or another, but I know of at least one person that with absolute zero experience on the water bought a yacht and learnt along the way.

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BORNFREEE said..

Where is the emergency Cisco ??? The hull is intact it has its masts plenty of sea room since when does an engine not starting become a life threatning event warranting setting
off an Epirb? .
If you think a bloke should be setting off on such a serious journey then sets a Epirb off because his engine wont start is ok then you are entitled to your opinion as i am mine.
Your a fine one on judgments your opinions are plastered every where on here.

I do not know where the emergency was. I was not there. Were you there???

In my post I expressed an opinion on solo sailing only. The rest of my post was statement of fact, suggestion and question. Please do not read into my posts what you think I have said.

I suggest you fully re-read my post and carefully analyse what I posted before you start throwing the crap around.

Edit:- I have to admit there was a bit of supposition in my post.

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Ramona said..

Sometimes the fault is in the quality of the news reporting. But in this case it seems the tow is not justified.

Well somebody justified it. Just a matter of who pays for it.

If it was my yacht and it was worth half a mill, I would pay for the 200 mile tow and then have a discussion with the insurance company.

None of us here on the forum KNOW the facts of the situation do we??????????????????

For me, topic closed. No further comment.

Can we all now move onto more POSITIVE topics?? First and last rule of the forum. Make it FUN.

Are you the modulator on this forum Cisco? I didnt think i broke any of the forum rules i was having fun and was expressing my thoughts on an open forum and enjoying reading other peoples thoughts smile .

We do not have a moderator in the sailing forum and I hope it stays that way.

So yeah, let's express our different views and not get aggro if they do not exactly coincide. Cheers.

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BORNFREEE said..

Are you the modulator on this forum Cisco? I didnt think i broke any of the forum rules i was having fun and was expressing my thoughts on an open forum and enjoying reading other peoples thoughts smile .

How about you keep it constructive mate. I'm sure that's what most are thinking.

Well you show me where i havnt been constructive mate

A 54 foot sailing vessel is too large to hoist sails with one person. I regularly sail on sai boats over 50 foot and a competent crew is a must. At best if there was a furling headsail then one person may be able to unfurl some of it. But it would be difficult to manouever even with an autopilot. This suggests the person was intending to motor the vessel the hole way. It is therefore possible that the sails were not even set for raising/unfurling if needed.

True it is that at best it was a panpan call but it also appears to be a HF radio and either out of range of VHF or the VHF was not working. Once again a sat phone may have been a better option.

The report lacks a lot of detail necessary to determine all the facts and every emergency service would rather have people wanting to seek assistance than being reluctant to so do.

In the fullness of time a report will be published that will make sobering reading and a lesson to all. S what should be done? Learn from this poor fellows predicament. They say a person learns from their mistakes and a wise man from the mistakes of others.

Anyone can be caught out. The task is to minimize both the chance of it happening and the consequences when it does. One suggestion I was given and still use is the 30 point rule. You need to have 30 pints in order to depart on a voyage. Then give a score out of 20 each for the condition of the boat, for the competence and adequacy of the crew and for the safety equipment. Add up the points. There are variations on this and others may suggest a better calculating system but the principal remains. Would this sailor have had the required 30 points. The crew score would be close to zero because the skipper had no crew. Sounds as if the boat equipment was not up to offshore standards.

Well it looks like the above is a lot of foot in mouth from here.

First problem was he had a fire in the engine room. That must have zeroed his chances of ever starting the engine. [see below]

Second problem was he was almost rolled, during which he lost most of his mainsail hanks.
So no main sail, which also jammed halfway up the mast when he tried to drop it.

Don't know what else happened but we can only assume that he lost some or all of his electrics caused by the fire [no radio, chartplotter auto-helm etc]
Apparently the inside was pretty messed up also from the unexpected roll.

When they tried to lift the anchor to bring her into Coffs Harbour in daylight [a few turns around a sand bank are needed to get in]
they couldn't lift the anchor and on that size vessel it had to be an electric winch, hence there was no power onboard.

The above was all reported on the local Mid North Coast [NSW] TV news last night.

I think he did exactly the right thing.

With that new information it certainly sounds like he did, that would have been a nightmare on your own i bet he is exhausted lessen here is not to take as gospel what the media reports you where right Cisco we where not there in his shoes

I found the written report from the ABC which also didn't mention the engine room fire. As Ramona noted, the quality of the media in these situations is usually wanting.
Most Navy people consider fire is the most significant danger at sea. I am one of them, which is why I am persisting with CNG on MB despite the hassle. Scary stuff, if he had one even once he got it out he would have been in a distressed state.

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MorningBird said..

I found the written report from the ABC which also didn't mention the engine room fire. As Ramona noted, the quality of the media in these situations is usually wanting.
Most Navy people consider fire is the most significant danger at sea. I am one of them, which is why I am persisting with CNG on MB despite the hassle. Scary stuff, if he had one even once he got it out he would have been in a distressed state.

excuse my ignorance but what is CNG MorningBird ?

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keensailor said..

excuse my ignorance but what is CNG MorningBird ?

Compressed Natural Gas

Seen this one? -

I've heard of coast guard crews getting called out to fiberglass motor boat fires and there not being much left upon arrival. Good idea to have fire port holes in electric panels so you can release your fire extinguisher in the enclosed panel during an electrical fire.

I have metho stoves. Anyone had issues with these? I try and keep the amount of metho in the reserve tank as little as practically possible.

Quite a graphic display of why gas installations should be done professionally.

Re metho stoves:- An explosion from metho fumes is highly unlikely. Fire is the greater risk. If you fill the tank and happen to spill the spirit, it runs everywhere. Have paper towels handy when filling. Leaky burners are a hazard. If you light a metho stove and there has been spillage or a leak, you will have flames everywhere and they are hard to see.

Gas, metho and kero stoves each have their pros and cons. It is a risk assessment and choice thing.

You will only ever get one explosion from a gas stove and you won't remember it.

Fires from metho and kero stoves are usually survivable but very annoying.

We have sailed a bit off the point of sail of this thread and getting dangerously close to firing up Morningbird about compressed natural gas as opposed to the more common lpg.

The thing to remember about metho and kero stoves is that metho is water soluble ... kero isn't, you can quite safely throw a bucket of water at a metho fire .... just don't try it with a kero fire.