Greetings,

I've just joined this forum after being led here by the enthralling account of the original Defiance restoration project while doing some research in preparation for buying my first yacht - that's if you don't count a 1953 clinker-built kauri Frostbite...

I'm trying to source plans and/or accurate specifications for the Defiance 30 (wide-hull version if possible) as I am about to purchase one and am trying to find out as much about them as possible. There are many accounts online about how good they are and where they have been, but no technical data - most of the information I have read about their history has been on this forum. They are not listed on sailboatdata.com for instance, unless the Northstar 1000 is considered close enough? If anyone has any info about how the wider-hulled version came into being, or knows where I could go to find out, I would be most grateful.

The one I'm getting seems to have a good provenance and has spent her life cruising on the Gippsland lakes. The interior arrangement was professionally done but is very basic and the boat oozes potential if you are someone who likes tampering with things, and I'm already thinking about how she might be improved down the track a bit which is what got me thinking about plans.

Wider hull version? I know of the long cabin version, but no wider version.

Are you thinking of the Swarbrick built S&S 30 as the narrower version? They are like a baby S&S 34.

Check out the S&S archive at Mystic Seaport.
It is design 2096.
Also there is no such thing as a wide body version.
I would be interested to know where that comes from.
Defiance is not the plug for the Savage 30 production boat, that was a boat called Pajen built by Jack Savage.
There are very slight differences, for instance Defiance has a very slightly fuller bow section and less rocker.
There is the Yankee 30 which is very different and a version was built by Swarbricks.
Cheers

lydia the Swanson 30 was very similar to the Defiance 30 and that might be the wider version ! But I might be wrong ? i know there only 7 of them were built

Regards JB

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lydia said..
Check out the S&S archive at Mystic Seaport.
It is design 2096.
Also there is no such thing as a wide body version.
I would be interested to know where that comes from.
Defiance is not the plug for the Savage 30 production boat, that was a boat called Pajen built by Jack Savage.
There are very slight differences, for instance Defiance has a very slightly fuller bow section and less rocker.
There is the Yankee 30 which is very different and a version was built by Swarbricks.
Cheers

There are a couple of cold molded hulls with fibreglass decks and cabin SS30's in the Sydney area. These have a different cabin and cockpit to the other production SS30's as well.

There are few different ones around.
Some are the Savage grp hull with timber deck and there is at least one earlier timber hull model (Not 2096) which had a savage grp race deck put on top.
Providence (ex 1/2 champ) has a Savage grp hull with a timber deck.
The Savage boats had a choice of two deck options, race version like original plan or the cruising deck (wedge cabin) which gave more room forward.
I would want to check that the one on Gumtree is actually Booker built or whether it is a Savage hull with a booker deck.

I seriously considered buying this one in Roslyn Bay in 2015, it was in good condition and okay price but decided it was a bit small for family cruising.

Good picture showing the difference in the Stern sections of the Savage boats

Stern section is much fuller

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lydia said..
There are few different ones around.
Some are the Savage grp hull with timber deck and there is at least one earlier timber hull model (Not 2096) which had a savage grp race deck put on top.
Providence (ex 1/2 champ) has a Savage grp hull with a timber deck.
The Savage boats had a choice of two deck options, race version like original plan or the cruising deck (wedge cabin) which gave more room forward.
I would want to check that the one on Gumtree is actually Booker built or whether it is a Savage hull with a booker deck.

Providence's cabin looks like the standard racing one - did they build it in wood to keep it lighter?

some were built in coffs harbour ,later models around 98 ,vinalester resin used, slightly taller rig

Early to mid 1990s the savage mounds ended up in Brisbane and quite a few hull and decks where sold from the place at Hemmant

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SandS said..
some were built in coffs harbour ,later models around 98 ,vinalester resin used, slightly taller rig

Where were yachts built in Coffs Harbour, which models, by who?

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dism said..

SandS said..
some were built in coffs harbour ,later models around 98 ,vinalester resin used, slightly taller rig

Where were yachts built in Coffs Harbour, which models, by who?

There was one for sale a few months back on Yachthub that was built in Coffs Harbour. The interior seems to have a lot more moulded furniture and less timber trim.

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dism said..

SandS said..
some were built in coffs harbour ,later models around 98 ,vinalester resin used, slightly taller rig

Where were yachts built in Coffs Harbour, which models, by who?

dont know where in coffs dont know who in coffs . " the model is about 98 ish " it looks almost the same as a Savage, different windows , lighter weight build . taller rig and as ramona said less timber inside slightly more modern look .

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lydia said..
Check out the S&S archive at Mystic Seaport.
It is design 2096.
Also there is no such thing as a wide body version.
I would be interested to know where that comes from.
Defiance is not the plug for the Savage 30 production boat, that was a boat called Pajen built by Jack Savage.
There are very slight differences, for instance Defiance has a very slightly fuller bow section and less rocker.
There is the Yankee 30 which is very different and a version was built by Swarbricks.
Cheers

The notion of it being a "wide body" version came directly from the advertising blurb when she was for sale. At the time I didn't know anything about them.Through various forums I thenlearned that the originaldesign was modified slightlyby adding beamto make her more suitable for Australian conditions; hence the chacteristic tumblehome.

Short of measuring my own yacht when she's slipped next, does anyone know where therearereadily aviailable sets ofdrawingsor lines ortables of offsets, sail plans, or deck plans. Savage Yachts packed up house years ago and approaches to Savage Boats today have been fruitless. I have reached out to Mystic Seaport and S&S as suggested but still waiting to hear back.

Spinola Bay was fitted out and finished by a local builder who cruised and raced her in the Gippsland Lakes where she has remained since 1997-98. She has a simple but effective interior arrangement, her Volvo 2002 is considered by experts to be well older than the boat and is due for replacement before we'd consider any serious passages. It has been suggested that she may also have been launched with a pre-loved rig; in spite of that in her current condition she sails beatifully. With re-rurbishing and some re-fitting planned soon I am still dead keen to get access to as much official data as possible to use as a reference point for future activity

Cheers

The only reference to a wide body version is that after speaking to Lindsay buckminster who was foreman at bookers they had made the frames for defiance and got a telegraph from Olin Stephens saying to make the boat 6 inches wider which they did but very sure there are not two production versions
ihave been told the Northstar is narrower but never verified it

Hey thanks a bunch for that feedback. That explains what I have seen mentioned previously.

I guess given that there are a few different S&S designs in the 30' range, the Defiance would qualify as being a wider one, and it might occur to a yacht broker to mention the extra beam as a selling point. It definitely shows down below - she's got good volume for a 30 footer in the living space even if the headroom is better suited to my partner who is just under 5' tall!

As I said, at the time I had no prior knowledge of these yachts and just took the blurb at face value. Having owned her for 9 months now and done some more research, talked to folk who know these boats, like you I'm pretty sure there aren't 2 versions either.

I've written directly to S&S to ask if they have any info - still waiting to hear. I heard nothing last time I wrote to them, maybe better luck this time.

Cheers

X24 ,I don't know if obtainable easily but if no data is forthcoming I would start looking for an I.O.R. Certificate for one of the Defiance/Savage / SS30 boats that raced under IOR and there are quite a few . Eg. Tenacious was just sold up here and she competed in the 98 S/H . Yachting Aust. may keep a copy . FYR. Here's the data for my Bounty back then.

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Bananabender said..
X24 ,I don't know if obtainable easily but if no data is forthcoming I would start looking for an I.O.R. Certificate for one of the Defiance/Savage / SS30 boats that raced under IOR and there are quite a few . Eg. Tenacious was just sold up here and she competed in the 98 S/H . Yachting Aust. may keep a copy . FYR. Here's the data for my Bounty back then.

Tried that but usual ****wits at SA could be be bothered looking

Defiance had a IMS certificate which means it was "wanded" at sometime
even had the owners name who held the certicate but the response I got was no record
the would have been a huge help to prove stability for say this Hobart as I would just need new freeboard measurements

The S&S 30 is narrower than the Defiance 30 . basically a cut down 34 , engine mid mount ect . The Savage Defiance sails like a witch !! The coffs harbor/ northern aus version is slightly different , lighter vinylester build taller rig , more modern inside , but doesn't seem to perform as well as the Savage . The Savage is a much better yacht than the later model built up north !!