Never realised how much plywood was in Swarbrick S&S 34 until I read the repairs Andy had to do to his even in the cockpit floor , I always believed they where solid glass.
www.andylamont.com.au/blog/archives/11-2015
this is his cockpit floor being cut out
www.andylamont.com.au/blog/archives/01-2015

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Zzzzzz said..
Never realised how much plywood was in Swarbrick S&S 34 until I read the repairs Andy had to do to his even in the cockpit floor , I always believed they where solid glass.
www.andylamont.com.au/blog/archives/11-2015
this is his cockpit floor being cut out
www.andylamont.com.au/blog/archives/01-2015

I think it was a rotten Balsa core that Andy repaired. There is also a bit of foam core in the deck too.
Early ss 34s had wooden stringers glassed in the length of the hull. these were substituted in later hulls with a thin piece of foam about 150mm wide and wider again on the latest hulls. The early hulls look heaps stronger.

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Jolene said..

Zzzzzz said..
Never realised how much plywood was in Swarbrick S&S 34 until I read the repairs Andy had to do to his even in the cockpit floor , I always believed they where solid glass.
www.andylamont.com.au/blog/archives/11-2015
this is his cockpit floor being cut out
www.andylamont.com.au/blog/archives/01-2015

I think it was a rotten Balsa core that Andy repaired. There is also a bit of foam core in the deck too.
Early ss 34s had wooden stringers glassed in the length of the hull. these were substituted in later hulls with a thin piece of foam about 150mm wide and wider again on the latest hulls. The early hulls look heaps stronger.

The early I.e. round forard hatch boats are actually much weaker than later square hatch boats. The later boats used a more osmosis resistant resin and improved water proofing in the deck. I believe the hull deck join was also beefed up. I spent half a day with Kim Swarbrick talking through the later boats construction. He oversaw MB's build.
I've been on probably 15 S&S34s and all the boats in poor condition were early ones. That could also be because they are older or were more heavily raced.
Early/later boats shouldn't be confused with the Mk1 and Mk2 hulls. All were later square hatch boats. Only a few Mk2s were built, I'm not sure exactly how many but maybe 6-10. MB is the last Swarbrick brothers boat and is a Mk1.

I believe they may of sacrificed some strength for a lighter boat .It may have been the fact that glassing in full length stringers was more expensive than laying a piece of foam and stiffening the hull this way was adequate ( although for some reason they went to a wider section). I'm not saying that the later are weak, I'm saying that the older look stronger because of the internal frame like structure.
Most of the ss 34s I have seen with shot gelcoats below the waterline where layed up late 70s to mid 80s, round and square hatches. The gelcoats are covered with thousands of craters but the substrate under them seems fine. It's more of a cosmetic disaster from using a poor quality or malfunctioning product that wouldn't be revealed for decades. I don't think it was about more osmosis resistant products becoming available for later boats because a lot of the earlier boats are fine too,,, just a bad batch

I have seen two on the hard having major osmosis repairs , one of them had the keel out would hate to think what all that cost, and that doesn't even consider the deck and cockpit laminate.

I think the "new " ones ( don't know if they are still being built) Are built a fair bit stronger, lighter, stiffer. They would be a lot better than the old ones build wise. The only problem is you would be paying 400-500,000 for a completed one like "Blondie". I think you can get them built with a Hull,Deck, Mast for a little bit cheaper. Of course then you have to finish it which will take time. For information on the new S&S 34s Mike Finn would be the one to talk to +61419 845 336.
Regards Mick

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Zzzzzz said..
I have seen two on the hard having major osmosis repairs , one of them had the keel out would hate to think what all that cost, and that doesn't even consider the deck and cockpit laminate.

I guess if you ignore the shot gelcoat, the gateway to osmosis is opened.
Bad hull/keel joints or I should say Ugly keel joints are another thing they suffer from, that gets back to my point about the way the hull is stiffened.

SS 34s aren't immune from problems that other boats suffer. Because of the records set by a handful of sailors they are often given a sort of superman status.

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Jolene said..
SS 34s aren't immune from problems that other boats suffer. Because of the records set by a handful of sailors they are often given a sort of superman status.

I so agree with you there, every s&s 34 I see for sale all has something about "Global circumnavigation". No matter how much of a sh!tter it is. Sort of giving the impression that because it's an s&s 34 they don't need any. refit when in reality that's not the case.

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Shanty said..

Jolene said..
SS 34s aren't immune from problems that other boats suffer. Because of the records set by a handful of sailors they are often given a sort of superman status.

I so agree with you there, every s&s 34 I see for sale all has something about "Global circumnavigation". No matter how much of a sh!tter it is. Sort of giving the impression that because it's an s&s 34 they don't need any. refit when in reality that's not the case.

They are getting on in years and yes too many of them are in poor condition. And in outright performance time has clearly overtaken them but I'd like to know of a class of yacht with a better offshore racing and record setting record.

Overall winner 1969 and prize winner in every Sydney-Hobart race from 1969 to 1974. Many places in the Hobart in later years including Azzurro's achievements in recent races. Huckleberry got a class place and was winning on handicap for 4 or so hours 2/3rds of the way into the 2007 race. Meltemi was still competing and may continue to do so. Allan Fenwick's Morning Tide was 1996 Lord Howe race winner.

Tasmanian yacht Morning Star finished second across the line in the 2018 5,500 nautical mile two-handed, non-stop ocean race from Melbourne to Osaka, Japan.

In 1989 Deerstalker won the North Sea Race, in 1991 a class win in the Fastnet, overall victory in the 1992 Round Britain and Ireland Race,

1st and 2nd in the Parmelia England to Australia race.

The new S&S34 Blondie owned by Simon Torvaldsen won just about everything offshore in WA in recent years. I believe the boat has been sold on now.

Jon Sanders, David Dicks, Jesse Martin and Jessica Watson circumnavigations. Jamie Dunross round Australia handicapped sailor record.

Numerous 34s have completed circumnavigations without major incidents including the boat my Fleming came off and our own Andy.

As far as the S&S34 Association is aware only one has sunk at sea, Allan Fenwick's Morning Tide off the NSW north coast a few years ago after a savage knockdown. The rudder had been modified (enlarged) by a previous owner and the knockdown over stressed the pintle resulting in a big crack in the rudder mount. (I have a rule not to sail on boats with modified rudders, a similar thing happened to me skippering Morning Magic, a Cole 43 with a modified rudder, trying to get to Lord Howe in 2013.) (The original Morning Cloud of Ted Heath S2H fame sank on its mooring in a storm in the UK)

If you ever get the chance to sail one seriously offshore I expect you will be a fan. They are truly wonderful sailing yachts for their size.

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Jolene said..
SS 34s aren't immune from problems that other boats suffer. Because of the records set by a handful of sailors they are often given a sort of superman status.

They are a fantastic boat and are no doubt over priced in some cases because of the super man status.
There are just as good boats out there That after seeing Andy's rot in the deck and cockpit can be had with better build quality and can sail better down wind than the S&S 34 and still match her upwind. The Brolga 33 and her sister the Magpie 34 both highly under rated yachts.

39s aren't too shabby either

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MorningBird said..

Shanty said..

Jolene said..
SS 34s aren't immune from problems that other boats suffer. Because of the records set by a handful of sailors they are often given a sort of superman status.

I so agree with you there, every s&s 34 I see for sale all has something about "Global circumnavigation". No matter how much of a sh!tter it is. Sort of giving the impression that because it's an s&s 34 they don't need any. refit when in reality that's not the case.

They are getting on in years and yes too many of them are in poor condition. And in outright performance time has clearly overtaken them but I'd like to know of a class of yacht with a better offshore racing and record setting record.

Overall winner 1969 and prize winner in every Sydney-Hobart race from 1969 to 1974. Many places in the Hobart in later years including Azzurro's achievements in recent races. Huckleberry got a class place and was winning on handicap for 4 or so hours 2/3rds of the way into the 2007 race. Meltemi was still competing and may continue to do so. Allan Fenwick's Morning Tide was 1996 Lord Howe race winner.

Tasmanian yacht Morning Star finished second across the line in the 2018 5,500 nautical mile two-handed, non-stop ocean race from Melbourne to Osaka, Japan.

In 1989 Deerstalker won the North Sea Race, in 1991 a class win in the Fastnet, overall victory in the 1992 Round Britain and Ireland Race,

1st and 2nd in the Parmelia England to Australia race.

The new S&S34 Blondie owned by Simon Torvaldsen won just about everything offshore in WA in recent years. I believe the boat has been sold on now.

Jon Sanders, David Dicks, Jesse Martin and Jessica Watson circumnavigations. Jamie Dunross round Australia handicapped sailor record.

Numerous 34s have completed circumnavigations without major incidents including the boat my Fleming came off and our own Andy.

As far as the S&S34 Association is aware only one has sunk at sea, Allan Fenwick's Morning Tide off the NSW north coast a few years ago after a savage knockdown. The rudder had been modified (enlarged) by a previous owner and the knockdown over stressed the pintle resulting in a big crack in the rudder mount. (I have a rule not to sail on boats with modified rudders, a similar thing happened to me skippering Morning Magic, a Cole 43 with a modified rudder, trying to get to Lord Howe in 2013.) (The original Morning Cloud of Ted Heath S2H fame sank on its mooring in a storm in the UK)

If you ever get the chance to sail one seriously offshore I expect you will be a fan. They are truly wonderful sailing yachts for their size.

Don't get me wrong mate. I think the S&S 34 is one of the best designed vessels in history. A perfect balance between cruiser and racer. No other vessel has as many sailing achievements. What I mean is boats that are run down and need work have ready to for a "Global circumnavigation. You would know all boats need to be maintained. An unmaintained boat is not ideal for crossing ocean.
Andy's boat wasn't circumnavigating anything before he completed his refit was he?
Ps I would love to know if overtime fibreglass gets weaker. Is that a thing? Would an S&S 34s hull be any weaker than when it was built purely because of its age?

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Zzzzzz said..

Jolene said..
SS 34s aren't immune from problems that other boats suffer. Because of the records set by a handful of sailors they are often given a sort of superman status.

They are a fantastic boat and are no doubt over priced in some cases because of the super man status.
There are just as good boats out there That after seeing Andy's rot in the deck and cockpit can be had with better build quality and can sail better down wind than the S&S 34 and still match her upwind. The Brolga 33 and her sister the Magpie 34 both highly under rated yachts.

IMO the rot in Andy's deck has more to do with maintenance by previous owners than built quality. My Toy has ply core on cockpit floor and foredeck for strength and the foredeck ply is rotting because the bl...dy idiot who owned her never resealed the through fittings over 30 years allowing water to do its job.
Dont know much about the Joubert boats , look very solid, but having raced for years against well sailed SS34 s I don't think you would find a better boat of that era for rough seas or Close hauling. Boats that look like that are not supposed to point as high as a well crewed SS34 can.

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MorningBird said..

Shanty said..

Jolene said..
SS 34s aren't immune from problems that other boats suffer. Because of the records set by a handful of sailors they are often given a sort of superman status.

I so agree with you there, every s&s 34 I see for sale all has something about "Global circumnavigation". No matter how much of a sh!tter it is. Sort of giving the impression that because it's an s&s 34 they don't need any. refit when in reality that's not the case.

They are getting on in years and yes too many of them are in poor condition. And in outright performance time has clearly overtaken them but I'd like to know of a class of yacht with a better offshore racing and record setting record.

Overall winner 1969 and prize winner in every Sydney-Hobart race from 1969 to 1974. Many places in the Hobart in later years including Azzurro's achievements in recent races. Huckleberry got a class place and was winning on handicap for 4 or so hours 2/3rds of the way into the 2007 race. Meltemi was still competing and may continue to do so. Allan Fenwick's Morning Tide was 1996 Lord Howe race winner.

Tasmanian yacht Morning Star finished second across the line in the 2018 5,500 nautical mile two-handed, non-stop ocean race from Melbourne to Osaka, Japan.

In 1989 Deerstalker won the North Sea Race, in 1991 a class win in the Fastnet, overall victory in the 1992 Round Britain and Ireland Race,

1st and 2nd in the Parmelia England to Australia race.

The new S&S34 Blondie owned by Simon Torvaldsen won just about everything offshore in WA in recent years. I believe the boat has been sold on now.

Jon Sanders, David Dicks, Jesse Martin and Jessica Watson circumnavigations. Jamie Dunross round Australia handicapped sailor record.

Numerous 34s have completed circumnavigations without major incidents including the boat my Fleming came off and our own Andy.

As far as the S&S34 Association is aware only one has sunk at sea, Allan Fenwick's Morning Tide off the NSW north coast a few years ago after a savage knockdown. The rudder had been modified (enlarged) by a previous owner and the knockdown over stressed the pintle resulting in a big crack in the rudder mount. (I have a rule not to sail on boats with modified rudders, a similar thing happened to me skippering Morning Magic, a Cole 43 with a modified rudder, trying to get to Lord Howe in 2013.) (The original Morning Cloud of Ted Heath S2H fame sank on its mooring in a storm in the UK)

If you ever get the chance to sail one seriously offshore I expect you will be a fan. They are truly wonderful sailing yachts for their size.

Yep no denying the achievements and a few proud SS34 diehards and brokers will read that and over time the deck becomes solid glass, the hulls are no longer normal grp but osmosis resistant grp, that's grown 1 ' thicker squeezing out the moisture and eventually becoming epoxy, whilst the simplest of deck stepped IOR rigs becomes this overengineered masterpiece the same as Jessica Watson's, capable of withstanding multiple rollovers in the Southern ocean .
Because of the proud history and association Australians have with this boat, It has to be better in every way . Myths about it spread like a contagion through out the interested community no different to the way a hero can become a superhero.

Here is an S&S Keel joint I snapped some time ago. Looked to me like saltwater would have made its way to the bolts through this crack.

What about the steel ones. ??

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Sectorsteve said..
What about the steel ones. ??

What steel ones Steve? All the S&S34s built by Winfields, Swarbricks, MacAlpine and Cottesloe Yachts were glass from two sets of moulds.

Roberts stole the design and he has plans for them in steel Roberts 34

Do they still make the "New s&s 34s" over in WA?

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MorningBird said..

Sectorsteve said..
What about the steel ones. ??

What steel ones Steve? All the S&S34s built by Winfields, Swarbricks, MacAlpine and Cottesloe Yachts were glass from two sets of moulds.

There's a steel one on yachthub in batemans bay.

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Sectorsteve said..

MorningBird said..

Sectorsteve said..
What about the steel ones. ??

What steel ones Steve? All the S&S34s built by Winfields, Swarbricks, MacAlpine and Cottesloe Yachts were glass from two sets of moulds.

https://www.boatsales.com.au/boats/sparkman-stephens/

Or is this a different brand?

Yeah mate that's a Knock-off.

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Shanty said..

Sectorsteve said..

MorningBird said..

Sectorsteve said..
What about the steel ones. ??

What steel ones Steve? All the S&S34s built by Winfields, Swarbricks, MacAlpine and Cottesloe Yachts were glass from two sets of moulds.

https://www.boatsales.com.au/boats/sparkman-stephens/

Or is this a different brand?

Yeah mate that's a Knock-off.

Yep, S&S34s are so bad a boat unscrupulous sellers call their boat one when it isn't. They all came out of two sets of moulds built by the companies I mentioned earlier. Everything else is a knock off.

I know they're awesome boats but I never really looked into them. Found it a bit strange that this one is 17k and others in the list are 60k

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Sectorsteve said..
I know they're awesome boats but I never really looked into them. Found it a bit strange that this one is 17k and others in the list are 60k

Yeah all genuine ones out of WA look like this


Without the sponsorship on the side of course. This is Jesse Martins boat lionhearted. Built in 1981 hull number 69 formerly called petrel


All others are a knock off. I will add also that the English ones built by aqua fibre have a raised coachouse.
Regards,
Mick

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Shanty said..

Sectorsteve said..
I know they're awesome boats but I never really looked into them. Found it a bit strange that this one is 17k and others in the list are 60k

Yeah all genuine ones out of WA look like this


Without the sponsorship on the side of course. This is Jesse Martins boat lionhearted. Built in 1981 hull number 69 formerly called petrel


All others are a knock off. I will add also that the English ones built by aqua fibre have a raised coachouse.
Regards,
Mick

Jesse Martin's boat, Lionheart, is actually earlier than 1981. You can see it has the round hatch indicating it was pre early 1980. The Association website notes it was launched late 1979/early 1980 (date of contract 12/1/1979).
The introduction of the square hatch was when they changed the resin to combat osmosis, strengthened the hull/deck joins and reinforced the deck at stress points.
You will see a mix of 4 or 5 windows each side, this variation occurred pre and post the change. Jesse's boat had 4, so does MB. The Association website notes that the original owner of Lionheart says "We were the first (I believe) to put 4 windows in the cabin trunk instead of 5, and we designed and had built a custom stem fitting.'"
The Winfield ones with the raised coachhouse also had much reduced headroom forard.

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MorningBird said..

Shanty said..

Sectorsteve said..
I know they're awesome boats but I never really looked into them. Found it a bit strange that this one is 17k and others in the list are 60k

Yeah all genuine ones out of WA look like this


Without the sponsorship on the side of course. This is Jesse Martins boat lionhearted. Built in 1981 hull number 69 formerly called petrel


All others are a knock off. I will add also that the English ones built by aqua fibre have a raised coachouse.
Regards,
Mick

Jesse Martin's boat, Lionheart, is actually earlier than 1981. You can see it has the round hatch indicating it was pre early 1980. The Association website notes it was launched late 1979/early 1980 (date of contract 12/1/1979).
The introduction of the square hatch was when they changed the resin to combat osmosis, strengthened the hull/deck joins and reinforced the deck at stress points.
You will see a mix of 4 or 5 windows each side, this variation occurred pre and post the change. Jesse's boat had 4, so does MB. The Association website notes that the original owner of Lionheart says "We were the first (I believe) to put 4 windows in the cabin trunk instead of 5, and we designed and had built a custom stem fitting.'"
The Winfield ones with the raised coachhouse also had much reduced headroom forard.

Thanks for clearing that up. I said 1981 because I'm his book he said the boat was launched in 1981 the same year he was born. I only ever noticed that the date of contract was 1979 on the website.

Yep the main problem with mine was rotten balsa core. I replaced the cockpit floor with marine ply and the starboard side deck and foredeck with high density foam. I found that large areas were just as easy to fix as small areas.
Its the innocuous small fitting bolted or screwed into the deck that cause the problem.
The lesson is to always make an epoxy plug by tearing out the balsa core with an Allen key in a drill then filling with epoxy so that the balsa is completely separated from the hole. Every time you put a fitting on the boat.

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andy59 said..
Yep the main problem with mine was rotten balsa core. I replaced the cockpit floor with marine ply and the starboard side deck and foredeck with high density foam. I found that large areas were just as easy to fix as small areas.
Its the innocuous small fitting bolted or screwed into the deck that cause the problem.
The lesson is to always make an epoxy plug by tearing out the balsa core with an Allen key in a drill then filling with epoxy so that the balsa is completely separated from the hole. Every time you put a fitting on the boat.

I like that advice thanks

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Zzzzzz said..
I have seen two on the hard having major osmosis repairs , one of them had the keel out would hate to think what all that cost, and that doesn't even consider the deck and cockpit laminate.

Gelcoat malfunction on this square hatched ss34. Looks like an attempt was made by a previous owner to repair by covering with a highbuild primer but the gelcoat continued to blister breaking through the covering primer and paint.








Loose keel. Keel was removed and rebedded. The studs or bolts where replaced and problems rectified which resulted in the keel being poorly fitted in the first place.(probably was never tight)







Keel bolt crevice corrosion


Gelcoat sanded off , hull faired and a dozen coats of continuously applied epoxy, primed and antifouled

Definitely a bad one. Many were delivered as a hull and deck with the keel to be fitted by the owner. Any idea what the history of the boat is. A name perhaps.