I am planning to do this for two reasons.
The current access is difficult and my visibility will be improved.
I am considering cutting the dodger off at deck level.
Any ideas, positive or negative please?

Hi Bundeena,
well it might be worth persevering with it over a season, when it is wet and in a decent sea, the Dodger might redeem itself? What about improving the vision with clearer windows, they look pretty hazy in the photo.
cheers Richard

Seems like a good idea for the 2 benefits that you will gain. However if it was me I would remove it very precisely so that it could be re-attached in the future say with stainless plates re-secured to the deck and dodger. But it depends what your future sailing will be - if going deep offshore for some time like the prior owners then would suggest this - if only sailing locally inshore or close offshore for day sails or overnight a few days then it may not be needed?

Cut out the section and re fit a sliding cover. Push forward to allow easier access.

As for better vision stand on a milk crate

Leave it alone. A previous owner thought it was a good idea and went to considerable expence getting it built and it looks to be well done.

Some say that hard dodgers are ugly. Some are. Most will say they are beautiful when looking at them from behind in blustery weather.

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Stockie said..
Hi Bundeena,
well it might be worth persevering with it over a season, when it is wet and in a decent sea, the Dodger might redeem itself? What about improving the vision with clearer windows, they look pretty hazy in the photo.
cheers Richard

Yes, Richard, I am considering replacing the windows.
Craig, I had not considered the sliding option. A great alternative.
Rob, I had considered carefully removing it, so it could be reattached in the future.
Cisco, I doubt that I will be sailing for long in situations where I will need it. I am not as agile as I once was which is a consideration.
I am conscious of this boat's pedigree and history and will carefully consider my options before altering it.
Currently I am giving it a good clean up and making minor repairs.
I am happy with my purchase.

Apart from being an eyesore it's also inconvenient. It's the only thing I did not like about that boat. I would chop it off and install winches on the pads where they should be and run all the reefing lines back to the cockpit.
Coastal sailing you would probably be sitting on the bridgedeck looking forward over the instruments while the windvane did the steering. Crappy weather you would be at the chart table watching videos!

I would suggest you change out the windows to improve visibility, live with it as is for a year and see how and why it is as it is. If later you feel the need then do as you wish.
Who knows, you may decide to offload it sooner than later anyway.

Hello BB - am posting this to the forum rather than PM as have a 2nd related question to follow in the post re dodgers and pilot houses / deck saloons........which I hope will result in useful responses of yachts with these and will assist in your decisions.

I just realised that it is very probable that the major issue with the dodger geometry on this sublime yacht you have bought is the unusually long fore and aft length of the bridge deck between the mainsheet traveller and the companionway entry down into the yachts saloon area. So to go below from the cockpit you have to climb up over the traveller, go forward over the teak bridge deck at the same height and stoop (crouch?) under the dodger, then go below.

For sure this would have been needed for sailing in Alaska which the boat did a lot of. But for a 32' yacht the mainsheet traveller would normally be located about central or a bit fwd in the cockpit fore and aft length, and the cockpit would have a very small bridge deck if any, and access down below would have been very easy with no dodger. Even with a dodger this type of mid-cockpit traveller, minimal bridge deck to the companionway would have been a lot easier to get into. Laurie Davidson would not have envisaged this design to have a dodger like that, with such a long bridgedeck.

So I am not talking about designs since the late 80s with travellers off the top of the cabin, and cockpits devoid of such obstructions.

So the 2nd related question is in 2 parts - part 1 who has retrofitted permanent or removable dodgers to their yachts which have worked - please advise all details including yacht design and dodger geometry. Part 2 who has a yacht in the 30-40ft size range with an as designed permanent or removable dodger which they can recommend, or it has a pilot house / deck saloon arrangement which works in harbour sailing (not racing) as well as close offshore. I am aware that the Tasmanians call these "sheds" - and rightly so given some of their day sailing conditions.

regards Rob

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Bundeenabuoy said..
I am planning to do this for two reasons.
The current access is difficult and my visibility will be improved.
I am considering cutting the dodger off at deck level.
Any ideas, positive or negative please?

r13 raied the issue of the wide bridge deck and the ergonomics of going between deck and cabin (vice verca).

The bridge deck creates most of the difficulty but I would not change a thing about that. It is part of what makes this yacht such a great blue water cruiser and looks like a great place to have a mat and a cushion and read a book while tha boat steers itself. It restricts greenies from flooding the cabin and increases internal buoyancy.

The discussion is about the hard dodger.

Because it is so well built and attached, the only thing I would contemplate is cutting the roof out of it and fitting a retractible soft top, folding or sliding, whichever works best.

Dodgers are great for offshore sailing but lousy for quick day sails. I would recommend that you carefully chop the dodger off about 50mm above the deck. Sand the edges off the leftover stump and you will get a nice little wavebreak and also have the opportunity to refit the dodger when going away for a cruise. I would put little composite blocks on the inside of the removed dodger edge so that it sits well on the stump when required. Then when selling the boat, you can have the dodger on or off. To do the cutting would be a little tricky. I would probably use a jigsaw with a metal cutting blade (I always use a metal cutting blade) and then some decoring, filling, sanding, filling and painting would be required. Use Perfection or similar so that you can brush the paint on. I would then cover the "stump" in plastic or honey wax and refit the dodger with some epoxy filler in the gap - let it go off and then sand and paint. This should be a lot less work than removing all traces of the dodger down to the deck and will let you use it if needed on a cruise.

cheers

Phil

That bridge deck must be provided for a lot of excellent space down below. It might be a bit awkward for reefing at the back of the cabin, you would have to be on your knees. If there is a decent first step perhaps the winches could be operated from a standing position in the hatchway. It would be interesting to see some line drawings to see what Mr Lidgard had in mind.
I think if the top was cut off to leave the bottom 60mm or so to act as a wind deflector it would leave the possibility of reattaching later. I personally feel these hardtops make the boats hard to sell. That Rival 34 on eBay would have sold easily without the hardtop. There is a cheap Duncanson 35 in Port Lincoln with an eyesore hardtop as well.

it always amazes me that people think they know better than the designer i would return her to her original layout plenty of dockside experts will say im wrong but limiting visibility always seems a bad idea

Am quite sure none of the prior posts nor the prior owners thought they knew better than Laurie Davidson. IIRC the reason the dodger was put on was for the prior owners to live aboard, including 4 years in Alaska.

I'd be inclined to experiment to find an ergonomic entry procedure, whether that be facing backwards...sitting on the bridge deck then spinning around 180 ...maybe with the help of an overhead handle??, to get legs into the companion way. Would become second nature after a while.
With a comfy cushion, that would be an excellent position to lay athwartships on a coastal passage.

I think this is a really interesting thread.
This is really not a black or white situation.
All of the opinions are valid.

Option 1
the reason the dodger was put on was for the prior owners to live aboard, including 4 years in Alaska.
This would indicate that the previous owners found a way to live with the entry/exit problem, as Blue Moon has suggested.

Option 2
cutting the roof out of it and fitting a retractable soft top, folding or sliding, whichever works best.
This would solve the vision problem and the entry/exit problem and give the option of screen/ dodger.

Option 3
Cut out the section and re fit a sliding cover. Push forward to allow easier access.
This would not solve the entry/exit problem because the sliding hatch would still be over the companionway.
But could be done with a removable soft insert as in option 2.

Option 4
What about improving the vision with clearer windows, they look pretty hazy in the photo.
New windows would improve forward vision and windows in the top would improve vision of sails, but you are still left with the companionway access problem.

Option 5
well it might be worth persevering with it over a season, when it is wet and in a decent sea, the Dodger might redeem itself?

I go for option 5 and if that doesn't satisfy, Option 2.


gary

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garymalmgren said..
I think this is a really interesting thread.
This is really not a black or white situation.
All of the opinions are valid.

Option 1
the reason the dodger was put on was for the prior owners to live aboard, including 4 years in Alaska.
This would indicate that the previous owners found a way to live with the entry/exit problem, as Blue Moon has suggested.

Option 2
cutting the roof out of it and fitting a retractable soft top, folding or sliding, whichever works best.
This would solve the vision problem and the entry/exit problem and give the option of screen/ dodger.

Option 3
Cut out the section and re fit a sliding cover. Push forward to allow easier access.
This would not solve the entry/exit problem because the sliding hatch would still be over the companionway.
But could be done with a removable soft insert as in option 2.

Option 4
What about improving the vision with clearer windows, they look pretty hazy in the photo.
New windows would improve forward vision and windows in the top would improve vision of sails, but you are still left with the companionway access problem.

Option 5
well it might be worth persevering with it over a season, when it is wet and in a decent sea, the Dodger might redeem itself?

I go for option 5 and if that doesn't satisfy, Option 2.


gary

Wow!
Thank you all.
Some healthy discussion.
Can I just say after cleaning up downstairs in the morning I brought one of the settee mattresses up and positioned it under the dodger.
I had the most glorious afternoon nap.
Still considering my options.

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r13 said..
Am quite sure none of the prior posts nor the prior owners thought they knew better than Laurie Davidson. IIRC the reason the dodger was put on was for the prior owners to live aboard, including 4 years in Alaska.

I guess people do things to their boats to make their sailing experience more comfortable. Not everyone one wants to sit getting baked in the sun or sitting soaking wet and shivering . Usually when people make the move and go with something like a hard dodger, they have spent many hours procrastinating ,going through the design, pros and cons ,,, maybe even asked the local shop owner what they think.

Leave it alone for a year, if you still hate it next season it comes off.
Don't tinker to early you may live to regret it

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Newmo said..
Leave it alone for a year, if you still hate it next season it comes off.
Don't tinker to early you may live to regret it

Plus 1

For what it's worth...

My hard dodger is f'ugly, interrupts my vision, is a bugger ducking to get at the cleats and winches under it etc etc. When I was younger and raced offshore and around the cans, my view was that if you're not getting wet, you're not going fast enough. Dodgers of any sort were for the infirm! Ditto for biminis...

But now when at anchor, and the wind is getting cooler than the beer; when looking at a sunset like this, I love tucking in behind the dodger.

When I bought the boat I wanted to get rid of it. Fortunately mine just bolts on-and-off so it's not a big deal, just awkward. But I gave it some time and now I think I'll leave it in place. My advice would be to give some time to working out why it was put on in the first place.

I'd chop it and fit a flexible dodger on a frame. But this is coming from a guy that takes a chainsaw to a keel.

Yes but your keel effort wasn't a midnight chainsaw massacre.........it was a totally rational and logical conclusion taken after immense considerable thought of the pros and cons, including analysis of all the design and operational ramifications on the yacht's performance, and was then very well actioned and completed to the desired result.

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r13 said..
Yes but your keel effort wasn't a midnight chainsaw massacre.........it was a totally rational and logical conclusion taken after immense considerable thought of the pros and cons, including analysis of all the design and operational ramifications on the yacht's performance, and was then very well actioned and completed to the desired result.

To the bunches of people watching it was butchery hahaha. They thought I was mad and even the shipwrights were scratching their heads. I think the hard dodger is a great idea in heavy weather but not as practical overall. I quite like folding mine down and out of the way but everyone is different. Personally I think it looks good though.

Agree with Gary, great thread BB.
Ultimately she's yours, whichever way you go BB is the right call.

But I can't help feeling like I'm looking at Elle Mcpherson doing a gearbox change on an old Escort panelvan.

As Shaggy said it's yours now.
So many things to consider. Re- sale value, weight etc.
After working on and around boats for awhile I would say most owners dont know what they want. It takes time sailing,at anchor and in port to understand what YOU want.
As others have said keep it for awhile and weigh up the pros and cons. Unfortunately you will only understand some of them once you remove it.
Dont know the history of the boat but sounds like it was added for offshore cruising and colder climates. Are you going offshore or to Alaska anytime soon?
The sheltered area under the Dodger will be missed. Just for keeping things dry. Phone,VHF a jacket etc. So if you decide to get rid of it think about a small area to keep things and as others have said a way of putting it back on.
You said you liked lying in the shade. That can easily be done with a small awning. Made with shade cloth and webbing stitched around the edges.
If it is making access in and out of the boat difficult I would get rid of it or as said put a sliding hatch in. Difficult on a curved surface though.
A wooden or plastic batten carefully placed and screwed will give you a straight cut. Then just fill the screw holes.
I think a folding dodger would be better but yet another expense!

If in doubt cut it out or throw it out, that's my motto!

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southace said..
If in doubt cut it out or throw it out, that's my motto!

That bridge deck was a serious piece of the boat's structure. If I saw that on a boat I was thinking of buying, I would run. Also part of the heavy weather safety.

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Yara said..

southace said..
If in doubt cut it out or throw it out, that's my motto!

That bridge deck was a serious piece of the boat's structure. If I saw that on a boat I was thinking of buying, I would run. Also part of the heavy weather safety.

So your assumption goes against 2 elderly shipwrights that gave me the go ahead and my own inspection for you to say that's wrong? In fact I doubt you could tell if you did inspect it and the fact I have brought another boat with similar lines and lay out without the bridge deck! Go back to reading your herreshoff books I would suggest.

My next door neighbour has a Cape Barren Goose, he's a serious sailor and he ADDED a hard dodger. He wouldn't
have 'spoiled' a C B G for no reason, so there must be a reason it's there southy.

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southace said..

Yara said..

southace said..
If in doubt cut it out or throw it out, that's my motto!

That bridge deck was a serious piece of the boat's structure. If I saw that on a boat I was thinking of buying, I would run. Also part of the heavy weather safety.

So your assumption goes against 2 elderly shipwrights that gave me the go ahead and my own inspection for you to say that's wrong? In fact I doubt you could tell if you did inspect it and the fact I have brought another boat with similar lines and lay out without the bridge deck! Go back to reading your herreshoff books I would suggest.

My comment is basic engineering know-how. Of course, your particular boat may be built extra strong like a brick sht house, and it doesn't matter. However the point is that when you make a significant change to an original design, it is no longer a boat by the original designer, but a hybrid. That could have an effect on the re-sale value.
Changing a hard spray hood, is not like that, as it is not a structural element.

BTW old L Francis Herreshoff had a pretty poor opinion of professional engineers!