Hey goes guys... time to test the water...

First considerations on a battery charger?

The boat electrics are well set-up for extended anchoring independent of shore power. There is little need for engine charging and when it is required maximum benefit is gained through the smart charger and high output alternator. Equipment includes:
•Link 2000 battery monitor system
•separate heavy duty engine battery (1 YO)
•four Trojan T-105 6volt 235a/hr house batteries (4YO).
•Balmar 100amp alternator
•Alpha smart charge alternator regulator
•two Kyocera 136watt solar panels
•Mark PV Solar regulator
•Excelsior 1100 watt (3000 watt surge) inverter
•RCD protected 240volt power points (x4) and 2 shore cables with three plug solutions to meet most international needs
•electric and engine heated hot water cylinder (copper with stainless outer).

Short of solar and the engine, there are no provisions for battery charging whilst at berth for extended periods of time. I plan to utilise the deiso heater which pulls a fair bit of DC current apparently and would not lend itself to long-term at berth.

Ant suggestions on hooking up a mains charger to the battery bank?

Notably I think I (really a leccy) would be required to extend the 240 system closer to the batt for starters. With all the other equipment as above is it a job outside the scope of a DIY person or would the instruction manual cover the likes?

Thoughts? Good links?

Cheers...

With that set up it be strange that the shore power did not deal with the battery charger. Is there an isolator somewhere or is the charger no good.
But solution is simple, make it so.

If you are on shore power for extended period try a ceramic panel heater rather than your diesel heater (no smell no exhaust)
No moving parts, works on convection and very nice heat once the panel is hot.
Weight a five kilos and look good on the bulkhead and are about 350x400X 100mm
Not fast to heat up though but can be left running for weeks at a time.
I am south of you and when the condensation is really bad like this week I just leave one running on low even though the boat is shut up.
I mounted them a bulkhead one in the saloon and one in the master cabin.

http://www.rinnai.com.au/heating/electric-panel-heaters/manual-control-1000w-model/

I got mine Bunnnigs for $100 each.
Wheels unbolt for wall mount.

1000 w @ 24 VDC = ~ 40 amps or @ 12 VDC = ~ 80 amps
How often does it run
or am i missing something

Not missing anything as I was talking about when you are shore power or you are a powerboat with a big invertor and house bank.
Seamus in Con Dock at present and it is raining inside his boat right now and headed to the minuses in the morning.

I will try to get some figures in draw once the plate is hot.

We use a Ctek M300 charger. It doesn't have to be close to the batteries (ours in in aft cockpit locker near shore power inlet). It plugs in to a normal 240v GPO from the shore power.

The Ctek connects to the house bank. The alternator connects to the dedicated engine battery and via a VSR to the house bank. We can also bridge the house bank for engine starting should the engine battery be flat. Normally, the Ctek does not charge the engine battery, unless it's bridged to the house bank.

We don't have solar yet, but use a Honda generator plugged into the shore power inlet to charge the house bank if required.

I'd suggest you get a good diagram layout of the electrics from the previous owner if possible. Fortunately one of our owners is an electrical engineer and our electrical system is fully documented.



http://www.ctek.com/au/en/chargers/M%20300%20Incl.%20STARTER

This is our old system which had the Ctek connected to the engine battery. We have since connected the Ctek (and reversed the VSR) as described in the above post.

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lydia said..
With that set up it be strange that the shore power did not deal with the battery charger. Is there an isolator somewhere or is the charger no good.
But solution is simple, make it so.

If you are on shore power for extended period try a ceramic panel heater rather than your diesel heater (no smell no exhaust)
No moving parts, works on convection and very nice heat once the panel is hot.
Weight a five kilos and look good on the bulkhead and are about 350x400X 100mm
Not fast to heat up though but can be left running for weeks at a time.
I am south of you and when the condensation is really bad like this week I just leave one running on low even though the boat is shut up.
I mounted them a bulkhead one in the saloon and one in the master cabin.

http://www.rinnai.com.au/heating/electric-panel-heaters/manual-control-1000w-model/

I got mine Bunnnigs for $100 each.
Wheels unbolt for wall mount.

Cheers Lydia,

I had thought of electric initially but have been warned against it up in Lonny (and other marinas). Word is that the relatively cheep berthing fees are offset by the rather massive charge for power off the marina. I haven't got a quote per unit but it was enough for one of the tenants to say that another couple put in a deiso specifically to negate the electricity charges. The deiso is ducted throughout the boat and from all reports is quite economical. I'd picture using it for longer periods - hours/days and back it up with the little fan forced electric that's in there now for morning warm-ups.

You mention condensation... do you guys use the calcium chlorite granule moisture absorbers at all? I Use them in my downstairs laundry in Lonny to good effect to remove moisture. Would expect they would be effective on a boat.??

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FreeRadical said..
The Ctek connects to the house bank. The alternator connects to the dedicated engine battery and via a VSR to the house bank. We can also bridge the house bank for engine starting should the engine battery be flat. Normally, the Ctek does not charge the engine battery, unless it's bridged to the house bank.

I have exactly the same setup as FR's ^^ except I have a 40A charger from eBay.

My 3000W Inverter also doubles as a 50A charger as a backup.

With 550W of solar panels & 780 Ah of house batteries I very rarely need to use the charger but nice to know it's there via the genset or shorepower if needed.

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SemusMcgilicoty said..

You mention condensation... do you guys use the calcium chlorite granule moisture absorbers at all? I Use them in my downstairs laundry in Lonny to good effect to remove moisture. Would expect they would be effective on a boat.??

I know it's not as cold where I am but I have two computer fans which I leave running when I'm not on the boat. With a solar vent pumping air i n & the PC fans pushing it through I have no condensation in the boat.

On my last boat I used the moisture absorbers all the time.

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Lazzarae said..

SemusMcgilicoty said..

You mention condensation... do you guys use the calcium chlorite granule moisture absorbers at all? I Use them in my downstairs laundry in Lonny to good effect to remove moisture. Would expect they would be effective on a boat.??

I know it's not as cold where I am but I have two computer fans which I leave running when I'm not on the boat. With a solar vent pumping air i n & the PC fans pushing it through I have no condensation in the boat.

On my last boat I used the moisture absorbers all the time.

If you are going to be on shore power, perhaps consider a dehumidifier, ours is a largish Delonghi which keeps the boat nicely dry, but there are smaller ones available. Set it up with continuous drain into the sink and its hassle free.

•four Trojan T-105 6volt 235a/hr house batteries...

does this mean the 12v system is 470a/hr total or still 235 a/hr?

I'm thinking 470.

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SemusMcgilicoty said..
•four Trojan T-105 6volt 235a/hr house batteries...

does this mean the 12v system is 470a/hr total or still 235 a/hr?

I'm thinking 470.

Correct.

Semus
Still very rare for marinas in Australia to charge separately for power. Lonnie must be a special case.
I would find a different marina.
Sounds like someone is gouging.
Having been a director of one the big club marinas, I say that even when we built a new 500 berth marina and specifically looked at the issue the costs of metering every berth both hardware and administration burden far outweighed any benefit and so the cost was always pooled. The only distinction was some of the really big boats needed 3 phase and that was done in a different pool.

What are the marinas that charge individually for power so I can stay away.
Sure there are some you have to leads and the like of a certain type and standard but that is their system.

As for granules you will need a very big bucket.
Are you on the boat tonight as that would be a good test.
A week of rain and 1 degree in the morning so you would see what works.

Clearly the dehumidifiers have pretty much become standard equipment and old Delonghi I have on the other boat still works treat especially up north.
It is plumbed to a hose the feeds to the sink.
Only one way work it all out, live on the boat.

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lydia said..
Semus
Still very rare for marinas in Australia to charge separately for power. Lonnie must be a special case.
I would find a different marina.
Sounds like someone is gouging.
Having been a director of one the big club marinas, I say that even when we built a new 500 berth marina and specifically looked at the issue the costs of metering every berth both hardware and administration burden far outweighed any benefit and so the cost was always pooled. The only distinction was some of the really big boats needed 3 phase and that was done in a different pool.

What are the marinas that charge individually for power so I can stay away.
Sure there are some you have to leads and the like of a certain type and standard but that is their system.

As for granules you will need a very big bucket.
Are you on the boat tonight as that would be a good test.
A week of rain and 1 degree in the morning so you would see what works.

Clearly the dehumidifiers have pretty much become standard equipment and old Delonghi I have on the other boat still works treat especially up north.
It is plumbed to a hose the feeds to the sink.
Only one way work it all out, live on the boat.

I'm checked in to POW Bay at the moment... was given a meter reading on docking... only one reason for that.

Good to know, cross that one off the list.
Real reason for high charge will be to get back some return on the costs of putting in the system and this will take the charge way above the costs of the electricity.
Over the years I have been in Kings Pier, RYCT and Kermandie and all unmetered.
Anyone know if the new DSS marina is metered.

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lydia said..
With that set up it be strange that the shore power did not deal with the battery charger. Is there an isolator somewhere or is the charger no good.
But solution is simple, make it so.

If you are on shore power for extended period try a ceramic panel heater rather than your diesel heater (no smell no exhaust)
No moving parts, works on convection and very nice heat once the panel is hot.
Weight a five kilos and look good on the bulkhead and are about 350x400X 100mm
Not fast to heat up though but can be left running for weeks at a time.
I am south of you and when the condensation is really bad like this week I just leave one running on low even though the boat is shut up.
I mounted them a bulkhead one in the saloon and one in the master cabin.

http://www.rinnai.com.au/heating/electric-panel-heaters/manual-control-1000w-model/

I got mine Bunnnigs for $100 each.
Wheels unbolt for wall mount.

I used a similar heater last year while I was doing my port lights kept the temp a bit higher to set off any epoxy I was using inside it warmed her in a few hours and did the job. shore power only

one thing to watch out for is that most of the cheaper panel heaters do not have ceramic elements, they simply have fine metal filaments in the bottom...

I ha

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fishmonkey said..
one thing to watch out for is that most of the cheaper panel heaters do not have ceramic elements, they simply have fine metal filaments in the bottom...

I've panel heaters at home. They crank up the power usage massively.

there is basically no such thing as a cheap to run electrical heater...

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HG02 said..

lydia said..
With that set up it be strange that the shore power did not deal with the battery charger. Is there an isolator somewhere or is the charger no good.
But solution is simple, make it so.

If you are on shore power for extended period try a ceramic panel heater rather than your diesel heater (no smell no exhaust)
No moving parts, works on convection and very nice heat once the panel is hot.
Weight a five kilos and look good on the bulkhead and are about 350x400X 100mm
Not fast to heat up though but can be left running for weeks at a time.
I am south of you and when the condensation is really bad like this week I just leave one running on low even though the boat is shut up.
I mounted them a bulkhead one in the saloon and one in the master cabin.

http://www.rinnai.com.au/heating/electric-panel-heaters/manual-control-1000w-model/

I got mine Bunnnigs for $100 each.
Wheels unbolt for wall mount.

I used a similar heater last year while I was doing my port lights kept the temp a bit higher to set off any epoxy I was using inside it warmed her in a few hours and did the job. shore power only

Select to expand quote

lydia said..
Good to know, cross that one off the list.
Real reason for high charge will be to get back some return on the costs of putting in the system and this will take the charge way above the costs of the electricity.
Over the years I have been in Kings Pier, RYCT and Kermandie and all unmetered.
Anyone know if the new DSS marina is metered.

Maybe not so soon... I do know that Lonny charges for electricity but it doesn't charge a live aboard fee. The equiv out at Beauty point is $11 a day for 3 weeks of the month I believe. I doubt I would use $231 a month in power especially sticking as much as possible to the 12v systems and using the trickle charger and Sun.

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fishmonkey said..
there is basically no such thing as a cheap to run electrical heater...

100% on that mate... it kills me when I come home and find a reverse cycle and panel heaters on at home whilst there's a perfectly good fireplace and wood avail... would rather run off waste oil or the likes though. The cost of power hardly promotes the use of electricity in Tassie - a pity since its mainly renewable hydro power.

I use a $15 fan heater for the winter months ,
my cabin gets so warm I need to turn it off when I go to bed. It would be nice to have it on a timer so it comes on an hour before I wake up.
it runs on the honda 2kva but I only do that when I'm the only one in the anchorage.

As for battery charger/shore power.
I think the best system would to be able to run the ship power strait through the shore power giving your battery's a float and rest.
my shore power just runs 240volt power points spread around the vessel. The fridge , lights and accessories run from the batteries and the battery charger constantly fights to put them onto float.

Any 30 to 40 amp battery charger should keep your battery's on shore power safe from drainage.

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southace said..
I use a $15 fan heater for the winter months ,
my cabin gets so warm I need to turn it off when I go to bed. It would be nice to have it on a timer so it comes on an hour before I wake up.
it runs on the honda 2kva but I only do that when I'm the only one in the anchorage.

As for battery charger/shore power.
I think the best system would to be able to run the ship power strait through the shore power giving your battery's a float and rest.
my shore power just runs 240volt power points spread around the vessel. The fridge , lights and accessories run from the batteries and the battery charger constantly fights to put them onto float.

Any 30 to 40 amp battery charger should keep your battery's on shore power safe from drainage.

****e... that introduces another possibility... a 240 to 12v convertor bypassing the batteries??? Would be a job prob more than required you think?

Going for 10-20% of ahr (470) - I was thinking a 50 amp charger to charge and float the batteries without having to worry about fridge, heater, potentially a second Waeco also and lighting draw during cloudy months.

$231 per month, as I said gouging!

Where one of the boats is kept the price for a 13m berth is $652 pm plus $140pm live aboard fee.
How does that compare?

My power was inclusive in the marina fee but I was paying much the same as you Lydia. Which in turn it slowed the boats refurbish. But it was only 5 minets away and I could drop in after work and do a bit.
I have found though after installing western red cedar in the cabin roof no moisture at all, a very dry boat

that looks like a good job hg very nice mate

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HG02 said..
My power was inclusive in the marina fee but I was paying much the same as you Lydia. Which in turn it slowed the boats refurbish. But it was only 5 minets away and I could drop in after work and do a bit.
I have found though after installing western red cedar in the cabin roof no moisture at all, a very dry boat

Just beautiful Hugh Grant. Would love to do same in mine. I'll get there.

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SemusMcgilicoty said..

southace said..
I use a $15 fan heater for the winter months ,
my cabin gets so warm I need to turn it off when I go to bed. It would be nice to have it on a timer so it comes on an hour before I wake up.
it runs on the honda 2kva but I only do that when I'm the only one in the anchorage.

As for battery charger/shore power.
I think the best system would to be able to run the ship power strait through the shore power giving your battery's a float and rest.
my shore power just runs 240volt power points spread around the vessel. The fridge , lights and accessories run from the batteries and the battery charger constantly fights to put them onto float.

Any 30 to 40 amp battery charger should keep your battery's on shore power safe from drainage.

****e... that introduces another possibility... a 240 to 12v convertor bypassing the batteries??? Would be a job prob more than required you think?

Going for 10-20% of ahr (470) - I was thinking a 50 amp charger to charge and float the batteries without having to worry about fridge, heater, potentially a second Waeco also and lighting draw during cloudy months.

I was checking out a little Australian made battery charger, it is a Christies Engineering unit which is basically a Bosch 55amp car alternator hooked up to a little 2.5 h.p. Honda motor. They claim to charge a flat 100amphour car battery in 5 mins so that it will start the car, 1 hour of charging will fully re-charge the battery, using only 1.5 litres of fuel/hour. This would seem a great way to avoid being left out in the cold or the dark. My weekender's solar panels (old and small) have clearly not been able to keep up with the loads over this last rainy and cloudy autumn/winter…only checked the voltage when the lights began to flicker and the engel fridge was very quiet…10.7 volts (ouch, hope I can rescue the batteries, they are 2 X 250 amp hour batteries) May be time to hook up the 2 X 80 Watt new solar panels I've had in the shed for a year.

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lydia said..
$231 per month, as I said gouging!

Where one of the boats is kept the price for a 13m berth is $652 pm plus $140pm live aboard fee.
How does that compare?

Compares pretty good Lyd,

Lonny berthing fees are $275 a month plus electricity. No Live aboard fees.
I'd say the prices are lower due to the silt issues and the distance to blue water.

Further down the river the fees are higher and the live aboard fee is charged. I don't know about electricity though.