Storm sails. My experience.
I bought a brand new storm sail in Perth. Consulted with the sailmaker because I knew nothing about it. He said that storm sails are for keeping steerage under the heaviest conditions. The most dramatic photos from the StoH show boats powering along under storm jib and storm trysail. These boats are still racing and have a full crew.


When most people have a storm sail (or two ) set they are in hunker down survival mode.



My sailmaker said that I only needed one. The reason being that even though they are small sails, they are heavy, take up a lot of space below and are quite expensive. Also the idea with storm sails is to have as little canvas hoisted as possible. Two sails means more sail area. So I went with a storm trysail. Was told that it is easier, stronger and safer. Not sure about the easy part!
A track was riveted to the mast next to the in-mast track and I had the mainsail halyard winch on the mast.

Firstly , hoisting and setting a trysail is not easy!
When we reef, it is (hopefully) before the conditions get too extreme. On the other hand we hoist a storm sail WHEN it is windy and rough.

My experience.
I have hoisted it twice. Once with an inexperienced crew and once with a crew that knew what he was doing.
Could not imagine it single-handed.
32 foot ferro double-ender with a large mainsail and hank on foresails.

Starboard tack heading north.
Pitch black night off the east coast on Malaysia between the coats and Tioman island.
Lightening. Heavy tropical rain and short sharp seas. Building winds.

First step, heave to.
Take down and secure main sail. From the port weather side,
Drag trysail up from below. It is stowed in the most inaccessible part of a heaving boat. Leave bag below.
Leave most of sail in cabin. Tie on sheet and lead to a block on starboard quarter and back to cleat.
Drag head to the track base under the boom. At this stage the sail starts to fill and whip around. Now you are working on the lee side with the rail under water and off balance.
Connect halyard and feed in bolt rope. I could not imagine feeding in slugs or slides in bad weather.
Haul up halyard and get to the first fold in the stiff new sail bolt rope. It won't feed in because of the kink! Tie halyard around waist and straighten up bolt rope so it feeds into track.
Haul up and repeat each time the rope jams..
Sail is flogging like all hell. Try to grab tack line and tie it anywhere at the mast base.
Hoist halyard taunt. Back to cockpit to trim sheet. Back forward to haul down and stow foresail.
Try to get boat back onto near the original.
Go below and check on the young Danish lass who has pissed herself.
Calm yourself down and steer. Don't know how long that took but it felt like hours!
And Ramona said that a storm sail is less hassle that reefing.
I tend to disagree.

gary

Agree, Storm Trysails are great if you see the storm coming!If you don't have a third reef as a quick fix, then the best scenario for bluewater cruising is to have the trysail ready to go on a seperate track. Drop and stow the main, hoist the trysail independently.Taking slides out of mast, then fitting a trysail in 30+ knots is not fun and dangerous! Similar to trying to drop a genoa and hoist a storm jib in its place. But thats a whole other story.Here is a piece I wrote a few years back
bullsails.blogspot.com/2012/12/storm-sails.html

Great post Tony.

Can you talk about lashing the boom down, specifically with a Selden vang on the boat? We often drag ours down to about chest height and drop the main to the deck when we're coming in after racing. It's nice not to have it swinging around but I wouldn't be super enthusiastic about it being in that spot when the boat is on its ear and taking water regularly. I have rigged the trysail on the boom which seemed to work ok but it would be nice to have the CofE a couple of feet lower.

Thanks JonEWith the fixed boom vang like the Selden, if you weren't using it to attach the trysail. I would lash it to one side (preferably to leeward if riding out the storm on one tack), the lashing would need to be firmly triangulated to make sure it doesn't slat around! No matter how tight you get it on mainsheet, it will still move!I would prefer to have the sail, boom and gear above head height, even if it does affect the CofE as booms and heads are not condusive to each other as we found in recent Hobart.Hope this makes sense.

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garymalmgren said..

And Ramona said that a storm sail is less hassle that reefing.
I tend to disagree.

gary

I never said that. I said a 3rd reef is better than all the drama associated with a trysail. My trysail stays home in the sail room!

"About the same size as a trysail with out all the hassle! With a trysail you get rid of the dangerous boom but this is the most reliable and easy way to get down to minimal sail."
Old people should reef right down without leaving the cockpit!

Swarbick 42 in the middle of Bass Strait, insane wind and huge seas. To set the trysail we had to dump the main (one track). We were dropping the main when it jammed halfway down the track, so we spent the next couple of hours with a basketcase of a main trying to unf&^%$ everything as the wind built ...and built...and built.
It ended up some of the worst condtitions I've ever experienced, the highest wind on the log was 60kn and just awe inspiring seas. The crew were absolutely rooted by the time we got the trysail set. It was horrible, we couldn't get enough tension in the foot and it looked more like a kite than a trysail. In comparison, setting the stormsail was childs play, even though we were airborne more than on the deck.
That was the last time. After that I went for a third reef in the main, and never looked back.

Ah best to trim the tri sail with halyard height not the sheets.
That is why the strop length on the tack is so important.
Your sheeting position is fixed so halyard up leech tight, halyard down to twist.

I used to bet my race crews that on over 35knots and a seaway that they could not get the main down and put downstairs and a storm gear on in under 1 hour.

What are thoughts on a 4th reef, my main has three as seen below. I intend to have a in depth discussion with my sailmaker about all this but curious about others thoughts.

The previous owner said one of the upgrades he would make if he were to circumnavigate again was to add storm sails. The hanked on staysail is only 12m2 and the designer (Graham Radford) makes the following comments about the sail plan

allows a range of sailplans from a 130% genoa in good conditions to staysail alone when it is possible to still make progress to windward in 60knots of wind.

I plan to replace the main and headsails later this year. What are thoughts on

4th reef vs a trisail. Boom can accomodate a 4th reef easily vs having to add a seperate track for a trisail. Also the boom is above head height in the cockpit and the main sheet is in a very safe position aft of the cockpit and the rig has running backs that can be deployed to offset the inner stay. Also the main when stowed has a quite high stack due to the batten cars, I would have to set a trisail quite high and climb up a few mast steps to change the halyard onto the trisail as I cannot reach it from deck height. That all sounds a bit nightmarish. I am leaning towards a 4th reef.

Dedicated storm jib vs just use the same size staysail as the storm jib vs staysail with a reef.

EDIT: we will be mostly shorthanded with only two on board (cruising couple)

RE: I never said that. I said a 3rd reef is better than all the drama associated with a trysail. My trysail stays home in the sail room!

Oops.
I misread your post. Ramona.
Apologies.

gary

Can we get back to reality here.
These are storm sails, get it.
Not a thunder storm but storm force with storm force waves.
So yep, go as many reefs as you want with all that sail tucked up on your boom (most likley poorly lashed)
Send me an email after your first knockdown where the mainsail goes in the water.
Tell me what happens.

Best to have a plan to get the main off the boom.

but the bigger issue is know your boat.
All boats behave differently under storm gear or deep reefed mainsails.
No point saying get 4 reefs of the boat can't be steered with it.

so say a early 2000 IMS boat will not steer without storm jib or something in front of the mast so triple reef mainsail was pointless.
The thing would steam uphill at close to 8 knots with a little storm jib.
Equally, one boat from a bit earlier I did many miles on was perfectly balanced with a tri sail and no storm jib so deep reefed mainsails worked to a point.

Depends on keel position mast position and keel shape etc

Lastly, I never heard anyone complain the storm gear was too small.

So for a 43 footer get storm gear from a 36 footer.

And all respect that staysail looks way too big and the cloth is unlikely to be fit for purpose as I doubt it is 9oz and is above the first spreaders.

Remember double the wind speed you square the force.

Then we get to the issue of modern keels which produce huge amounts of lift but also stall under load.

So again when your keel stalls send me an email.

If someone posts a the Richard Bennett pic of Bobsled in 1998 Hobart.
It is a great pic but everything about the boat balance is wrong.
Every boat is different.

Look carefully and think about it. (It is not the crew)

Oh and if using storm sails be sure to teach the crew how to tack so you don't have to keep cutting the sheets otherwise you eventually run out.

Storm sails are definitely stronger than regular sails.
My point is just that they are not easy.
Once they are up and set you do feel a lot more secure though.
www.facebook.com/reel/1170098044702182

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Send me an email after your first knockdown where the mainsail goes in the water.
Tell me what happens.

Because I'm going to be too busy to email you if that happens, and the starlink antenna will have been ripped off the boat, can I hazard a guess?

Does the sail fill with water and break free of the lashings, hammering the helmsman and anyone else in the way, leaving some poor bastard to play hunt the knife and cut the main off the boat?

My boat is a mid-90s IMS boat (swept rig) that does about 75 true under the small jib alone with no rudder. Main alone is horrible - won't do much better that reach, and needs loads of rudder to do that.

I have storm jib and trisail.

is my plan to get the storm jib up to keep the boat steering, drag the main down the companionway hatch, secure the boom, then get the trisail up - probably on the boom.?

Boat has to right it self first usually, then all of the above plus the bend in the boom at the vang strut.

The Bobsled pic is really interstesting.

Look at the actual direction of travel, less than 90 degrees to the breeze. The boat is just blowing sideways.
The keel has stalled and the boat is drifting sideways and most remarkable, the helm is down trying the get the bow up even through there is no sail in front of the mast.
So think about the balance at that point.
CLR must be a long way back
The rudder is not where it should be.
It can happen in any boat with a modern fin keel.
The trick is to steer down to unload the keel then steer up once the flow has attached after that press play and repeat very time it happens.
You have to move forward.
But all boats are different which is the point.

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JonE said..
My boat is a mid-90s IMS boat (swept rig) that does about 75 true under the small jib alone with no rudder. Main alone is horrible - won't do much better that reach, and needs loads of rudder to do that.

I have storm jib and trisail.

is my plan to get the storm jib up to keep the boat steering, drag the main down the companionway hatch, secure the boom, then get the trisail up - probably on the boom.?

Good plan, now pick a big breeze and see how the boat balances.
Certainly better performance on boom up to a point.
But try without if only to see where your trisail sheets and how high you need it up the mast to sheet well.

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lydia said..
Can we get back to reality here.
These are storm sails, get it.
Not a thunder storm but storm force with storm force waves.
So yep, go as many reefs as you want with all that sail tucked up on your boom (most likley poorly lashed)
Send me an email after your first knockdown where the mainsail goes in the water.
Tell me what happens.

Best to have a plan to get the main off the boom.

but the bigger issue is know your boat.
All boats behave differently under storm gear or deep reefed mainsails.
No point saying get 4 reefs of the boat can't be steered with it.

so say a early 2000 IMS boat will not steer without storm jib or something in front of the mast so triple reef mainsail was pointless.
The thing would steam uphill at close to 8 knots with a little storm jib.
Equally, one boat from a bit earlier I did many miles on was perfectly balanced with a tri sail and no storm jib so deep reefed mainsails worked to a point.

Depends on keel position mast position and keel shape etc

Lastly, I never heard anyone complain the storm gear was too small.

So for a 43 footer get storm gear from a 36 footer.

And all respect that staysail looks way too big and the cloth is unlikely to be fit for purpose as I doubt it is 9oz and is above the first spreaders.

Remember double the wind speed you square the force.

Then we get to the issue of modern keels which produce huge amounts of lift but also stall under load.

So again when your keel stalls send me an email.

If someone posts a the Richard Bennett pic of Bobsled in 1998 Hobart.
It is a great pic but everything about the boat balance is wrong.
Every boat is different.

Thanks for the friendly advice but I don't like some of it.

Getting that main off with only two people, both over 50, in a storm sounds like a recipe for a disaster. I think someone would be injured trying.

If it's storm force wind and waves we will be hove to or failing that the JSD will be deployed . Ideally our storm survival strategy will not need to change sails, no need to steer and no need to be continuously on deck, standing watch below using ais and radar and stick our heads through the companion every quarter hour to scan the horizon. Fighting with sails on deck and hand steering four hours or days sounds very tiring and dangerous.

And God forbid if I every have to sail off a lee shore in a storm I won't hesitate for a second to use the engine to assist.

I do like your advice about knowing the boat. I haven't sailed her under stay sail alone or with a third reef. I will put those on the to do list before any decions are made about new sails.

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cammd said..

lydia said..
Can we get back to reality here.
These are storm sails, get it.
Not a thunder storm but storm force with storm force waves.
So yep, go as many reefs as you want with all that sail tucked up on your boom (most likley poorly lashed)
Send me an email after your first knockdown where the mainsail goes in the water.
Tell me what happens.

Best to have a plan to get the main off the boom.

but the bigger issue is know your boat.
All boats behave differently under storm gear or deep reefed mainsails.
No point saying get 4 reefs of the boat can't be steered with it.

so say a early 2000 IMS boat will not steer without storm jib or something in front of the mast so triple reef mainsail was pointless.
The thing would steam uphill at close to 8 knots with a little storm jib.
Equally, one boat from a bit earlier I did many miles on was perfectly balanced with a tri sail and no storm jib so deep reefed mainsails worked to a point.

Depends on keel position mast position and keel shape etc

Lastly, I never heard anyone complain the storm gear was too small.

So for a 43 footer get storm gear from a 36 footer.

And all respect that staysail looks way too big and the cloth is unlikely to be fit for purpose as I doubt it is 9oz and is above the first spreaders.

Remember double the wind speed you square the force.

Then we get to the issue of modern keels which produce huge amounts of lift but also stall under load.

So again when your keel stalls send me an email.

If someone posts a the Richard Bennett pic of Bobsled in 1998 Hobart.
It is a great pic but everything about the boat balance is wrong.
Every boat is different.

Thanks for the friendly advice but I don't like some of it.

Getting that main off with only two people, both over 50, in a storm sounds like a recipe for a disaster. I think someone would be injured trying.

If it's storm force wind and waves we will be hove to or failing that the JSD will be deployed . Ideally our storm survival strategy will not need to change sails, no need to steer and no need to be continuously on deck, standing watch below using ais and radar and stick our heads through the companion every quarter hour to scan the horizon. Fighting with sails on deck and hand steering four hours or days sounds very tiring and dangerous.

And God forbid if I every have to sail off a lee shore in a storm I won't hesitate for a second to use the engine to assist.

I do like your advice about knowing the boat. I haven't sailed her under stay sail alone or with a third reef. I will put those on the to do list before any decions are made about new sails.

So you are a sitting duck then.
But odds are most will be too sick to move anyway.
You have quite a modern boat that is meant to take waves head on.
Have tries heaving too yet how does the boat balance

But in any event with new technology you should know what is coming.

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lydia said..

cammd said..

lydia said..
Can we get back to reality here.
These are storm sails, get it.
Not a thunder storm but storm force with storm force waves.
So yep, go as many reefs as you want with all that sail tucked up on your boom (most likley poorly lashed)
Send me an email after your first knockdown where the mainsail goes in the water.
Tell me what happens.

Best to have a plan to get the main off the boom.

but the bigger issue is know your boat.
All boats behave differently under storm gear or deep reefed mainsails.
No point saying get 4 reefs of the boat can't be steered with it.

so say a early 2000 IMS boat will not steer without storm jib or something in front of the mast so triple reef mainsail was pointless.
The thing would steam uphill at close to 8 knots with a little storm jib.
Equally, one boat from a bit earlier I did many miles on was perfectly balanced with a tri sail and no storm jib so deep reefed mainsails worked to a point.

Depends on keel position mast position and keel shape etc

Lastly, I never heard anyone complain the storm gear was too small.

So for a 43 footer get storm gear from a 36 footer.

And all respect that staysail looks way too big and the cloth is unlikely to be fit for purpose as I doubt it is 9oz and is above the first spreaders.

Remember double the wind speed you square the force.

Then we get to the issue of modern keels which produce huge amounts of lift but also stall under load.

So again when your keel stalls send me an email.

If someone posts a the Richard Bennett pic of Bobsled in 1998 Hobart.
It is a great pic but everything about the boat balance is wrong.
Every boat is different.

Thanks for the friendly advice but I don't like some of it.

Getting that main off with only two people, both over 50, in a storm sounds like a recipe for a disaster. I think someone would be injured trying.

If it's storm force wind and waves we will be hove to or failing that the JSD will be deployed . Ideally our storm survival strategy will not need to change sails, no need to steer and no need to be continuously on deck, standing watch below using ais and radar and stick our heads through the companion every quarter hour to scan the horizon. Fighting with sails on deck and hand steering four hours or days sounds very tiring and dangerous.

And God forbid if I every have to sail off a lee shore in a storm I won't hesitate for a second to use the engine to assist.

I do like your advice about knowing the boat. I haven't sailed her under stay sail alone or with a third reef. I will put those on the to do list before any decions are made about new sails.

So you are a sitting duck then.
But odds are most will be too sick to move anyway.
You have quite a modern boat that is meant to take waves head on.
Have tries heaving too yet how does the boat balance

But in any event with new technology you should know what is coming.

What's your storm survival strategy hoist a trisail and surf some breakers.
I think heaving to or deploying a jsd is prudent. It's easiest on the boat and crew. Fighting with heavy sails in a gale on a pitching deck then hand steering for hours upon hours seems dangerous to me.

Depends on boat, current, angle to sail to get out of current. Lots of things.
you will not know what will work until you have to decide.

Last time I had to do it anger and about 15 years ago, fore reaching worked really well for that particular boat.
Yep suffered some minor damage in a few big knockdowns but boat was properly engineering and brilliantly built.
So my starting position is going upwind is safer than downwind.
So put the port bow on the wind and off you go.
Everyone on board agreed that if turned and ran we would not get 5 miles before we got a full rollover given the sea state and current.

But as Peter Mounsey said years ago: "Gales are simple, either the gale stops or you stop but all gales pass.

Another thing, it is hard to describe the impacts on the boat in a gale whether going upwind or down let alone not moving.
If you have not experienced it, we are talking impacts that if there is weight of someone sleeping in a bunk the bunk will rip away from the hull.
Decks deform that much hatches can't shut properly.
Your sail drive seals will leak into the void as the leg comes clears of the water and the prop grabs air then hits the water with the motor screaming.
BTW just disconnect the sensor.
Unless you breather inside the boat there will be water in the fuel tank.
Exhausts will back fill. Not too many people have a sea cock on the exhaust which at least limits water back into the engine.
Tape all the locker doors shut for instance.
Hope that helps but with a 13 metre boat try to stay out of 13m waves.

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cammd said..

lydia said..

cammd said..

lydia said..
Can we get back to reality here.
These are storm sails, get it.
Not a thunder storm but storm force with storm force waves.
So yep, go as many reefs as you want with all that sail tucked up on your boom (most likley poorly lashed)
Send me an email after your first knockdown where the mainsail goes in the water.
Tell me what happens.

Best to have a plan to get the main off the boom.

but the bigger issue is know your boat.
All boats behave differently under storm gear or deep reefed mainsails.
No point saying get 4 reefs of the boat can't be steered with it.

so say a early 2000 IMS boat will not steer without storm jib or something in front of the mast so triple reef mainsail was pointless.
The thing would steam uphill at close to 8 knots with a little storm jib.
Equally, one boat from a bit earlier I did many miles on was perfectly balanced with a tri sail and no storm jib so deep reefed mainsails worked to a point.

Depends on keel position mast position and keel shape etc

Lastly, I never heard anyone complain the storm gear was too small.

So for a 43 footer get storm gear from a 36 footer.

And all respect that staysail looks way too big and the cloth is unlikely to be fit for purpose as I doubt it is 9oz and is above the first spreaders.

Remember double the wind speed you square the force.

Then we get to the issue of modern keels which produce huge amounts of lift but also stall under load.

So again when your keel stalls send me an email.

If someone posts a the Richard Bennett pic of Bobsled in 1998 Hobart.
It is a great pic but everything about the boat balance is wrong.
Every boat is different.

Thanks for the friendly advice but I don't like some of it.

Getting that main off with only two people, both over 50, in a storm sounds like a recipe for a disaster. I think someone would be injured trying.

If it's storm force wind and waves we will be hove to or failing that the JSD will be deployed . Ideally our storm survival strategy will not need to change sails, no need to steer and no need to be continuously on deck, standing watch below using ais and radar and stick our heads through the companion every quarter hour to scan the horizon. Fighting with sails on deck and hand steering four hours or days sounds very tiring and dangerous.

And God forbid if I every have to sail off a lee shore in a storm I won't hesitate for a second to use the engine to assist.

I do like your advice about knowing the boat. I haven't sailed her under stay sail alone or with a third reef. I will put those on the to do list before any decions are made about new sails.

So you are a sitting duck then.
But odds are most will be too sick to move anyway.
You have quite a modern boat that is meant to take waves head on.
Have tries heaving too yet how does the boat balance

But in any event with new technology you should know what is coming.

What's your storm survival strategy hoist a trisail and surf some breakers.
I think heaving to or deploying a jsd is prudent. It's easiest on the boat and crew. Fighting with heavy sails in a gale on a pitching deck then hand steering for hours upon hours seems dangerous to me.

Camm you seem pretty confident there, so get out your engine manual and see at what angle of heel does the oil lubrication system start to fail and the oil start to sheer.

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lydia said..

cammd said..

lydia said..

cammd said..

lydia said..
Can we get back to reality here.
These are storm sails, get it.
Not a thunder storm but storm force with storm force waves.
So yep, go as many reefs as you want with all that sail tucked up on your boom (most likley poorly lashed)
Send me an email after your first knockdown where the mainsail goes in the water.
Tell me what happens.

Best to have a plan to get the main off the boom.

but the bigger issue is know your boat.
All boats behave differently under storm gear or deep reefed mainsails.
No point saying get 4 reefs of the boat can't be steered with it.

so say a early 2000 IMS boat will not steer without storm jib or something in front of the mast so triple reef mainsail was pointless.
The thing would steam uphill at close to 8 knots with a little storm jib.
Equally, one boat from a bit earlier I did many miles on was perfectly balanced with a tri sail and no storm jib so deep reefed mainsails worked to a point.

Depends on keel position mast position and keel shape etc

Lastly, I never heard anyone complain the storm gear was too small.

So for a 43 footer get storm gear from a 36 footer.

And all respect that staysail looks way too big and the cloth is unlikely to be fit for purpose as I doubt it is 9oz and is above the first spreaders.

Remember double the wind speed you square the force.

Then we get to the issue of modern keels which produce huge amounts of lift but also stall under load.

So again when your keel stalls send me an email.

If someone posts a the Richard Bennett pic of Bobsled in 1998 Hobart.
It is a great pic but everything about the boat balance is wrong.
Every boat is different.

Thanks for the friendly advice but I don't like some of it.

Getting that main off with only two people, both over 50, in a storm sounds like a recipe for a disaster. I think someone would be injured trying.

If it's storm force wind and waves we will be hove to or failing that the JSD will be deployed . Ideally our storm survival strategy will not need to change sails, no need to steer and no need to be continuously on deck, standing watch below using ais and radar and stick our heads through the companion every quarter hour to scan the horizon. Fighting with sails on deck and hand steering four hours or days sounds very tiring and dangerous.

And God forbid if I every have to sail off a lee shore in a storm I won't hesitate for a second to use the engine to assist.

I do like your advice about knowing the boat. I haven't sailed her under stay sail alone or with a third reef. I will put those on the to do list before any decions are made about new sails.

So you are a sitting duck then.
But odds are most will be too sick to move anyway.
You have quite a modern boat that is meant to take waves head on.
Have tries heaving too yet how does the boat balance

But in any event with new technology you should know what is coming.

What's your storm survival strategy hoist a trisail and surf some breakers.
I think heaving to or deploying a jsd is prudent. It's easiest on the boat and crew. Fighting with heavy sails in a gale on a pitching deck then hand steering for hours upon hours seems dangerous to me.

Camm you seem pretty confident there, so get out your engine manual and see at what angle of heel does the oil lubrication system start to fail and the oil start to sheer.

Trying to take the main off the boom is going to take me out long before the engine croaks.

All respect but i don't think you are getting it, there is only the right decision for you at the time informed by experience and knowledge.
The trick is matching the body of knowledge with a body of experience.

Well I do respect yours and others knowledge and experience, hence why I asked for opinions on a 4th reef vs a trisail. What I don't respect is getting patronised or getting replied to in a condesending way. I am doing my best to gain as much knowledge as I can by reading and watching people like Jon Harries, Skip Novac, John Kretchsner, Lin and Larry Pardy etc. as well as reading and engaging on forums.

The experience can only come from getting out there and knowing my boat and I know it enough to realise I can't rip the main off the boom and shove it down a companionway in a few minutes. It would take me an hour on the dock to move the stack pack and release all the battens cars from the top down etc and then two people can barely lift it given its weight and awkwardness when its dry and neatly rolled. Given the difficulty others have mentioned above just hoisting with a trisail that is filling with wind I don't think removing the main is doable. If that makes me a sitting duck that's to sick to care I will do my best to stay away from 13 mtr waves, that advice I liked.

I personally would not add a 4th reef. The sailmaker would put three reefs in as per the designer's sail plan. The designer would have given this some thought! If your vessel is a relatively common design then learn from other peoples experiences. Do the sailers sailing in the Golden Globe races use trysails? Some long distance sailers do have a separate track on the side of the mast down to the deck and the trysail is permanently stored there. Then when required the boom end is lowered and secured to the deck and the trysail hauled up to a preset position. This is fine if your boat needs it.
In my case with an SS34, I can emulate dozens of other well-known examples. My mainsail has only two reefs and when the wind gets above 45 the main is dropped into the stackpack and the mainsheet hauled down hard. With just a bit of headsail the yacht close reaches comfortably and the Aries looks after everything. It worked for Jessica and not surprisingly it worked for me.

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Ramona said..
I personally would not add a 4th reef. The sailmaker would put three reefs in as per the designer's sail plan. The designer would have given this some thought! If your vessel is a relatively common design then learn from other peoples experiences. Do the sailers sailing in the Golden Globe races use trysails? Some long distance sailers do have a separate track on the side of the mast down to the deck and the trysail is permanently stored there. Then when required the boom end is lowered and secured to the deck and the trysail hauled up to a preset position. This is fine if your boat needs it.
In my case with an SS34, I can emulate dozens of other well-known examples. My mainsail has only two reefs and when the wind gets above 45 the main is dropped into the stackpack and the mainsheet hauled down hard. With just a bit of headsail the yacht close reaches comfortably and the Aries looks after everything. It worked for Jessica and not surprisingly it worked for me.

It worked for me too.
I did have an inner fore stay rigged on Morning Bird. We normally set the staysail on departure and as the wind picked up we furled the heady right in and, with two reefs in the main, she sailed quite well in over 30 kts. The youtube video of our passage in 2016 shows some of the conditions encountered.

In 2014 we broke the boom off at the goose neck 10 nm off Lord Howe Island. Once in the lagoon we took the main off and lashed the boom to the deck. Rigged the trysail and came home to Sydney with it. The boat sailed very well like that although from memory the strongest we had that passage was maybe 30-35 kts and from the noreast.
In my view, for cruising, a trysail is very important to have for when your main is not available anymore due to a major boom or sail issue.
In the storm conditions which I've experienced the S&S34 heaves too brilliantly with a double reef and furled heady, and that is the best thing to do. I wouldn't try to rig a trysail in those conditions.
Lydia's comments about the impacts on the boat are very relevant to discussion of rigging such sails.
In 2014 we arrived at LHI too late to get into the lagoon. We had over 40kts all night peaking well into the 50s. Morning Bird was heaved to and at some time in the dark there was a loud crack, like a rifle shot. I got up to see what had broken and all was OK. A while later another one. It was the waves hitting the hull. The noise in the rigging was frightening. The motion was as Lydia describes, violent. We heaved to on starboard tack so we were both bunked down on the port side. We weren't at risk of being thrown out of our bunks but we were airborne occasionally.
An experience to have, and I was glad I was in an S&S34 and not a lightweight low angle of vanishing stability boat.

Came, have you tracked down the Lin Pardley article from right outside your front door?

I vote with her by the way, Breaksea to Noosa is one of my least favourite bits of water if very fresh because of the inconsistent current.

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lydia said..
Came, have you tracked down the Lin Pardley article from right outside your front door?

I vote with her by the way, Breaksea to Noosa is one of my least favourite bits of water if very fresh because of the inconsistent current.

No I haven't seen it but I will look for it, our plans are to become full time cruisers this winter with a trip to the reef as the shakedown to get off our cruising L plates and sort the boat with any refit/repairs back in Brisbane before heading south for the summer. That bit of water will be our first leg.

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JonE said..

We often drag ours down to about chest height and drop the main to the deck when we're coming in after racing. It's nice not to have it swinging around but I wouldn't be super enthusiastic about it being in that spot when the boat is on its ear and taking water regularly. I have rigged the trysail on the boom which seemed to work ok but it would be nice to have the CofE a couple of feet lower.

Having the boom lashed to the deck is what killed Glyn Charles in the '98 Hobart. A big wave hit the boom, tore off the fitting it was tied to or broke the line, and threw it into Glyn. After hearing about that I'm happy that our vang leaves the boom up higher.

Personally I dislike using the trysail without a boom, because the boom and vang take a lot of the compression and twisting load and therefore if you don't use them you end up with a very high trysail sheet load, and very poor shape with very deep camber a lot of the time. With the trysail on the boom you can get a nice flat shape that depowers well, and you can still play the mainsheet easily. Plus if the boom is above deck you can duck under it - if it's on deck that is much less of an option. This is only my experience, others may differ. I will say that Roger Hickman, not only a great offshore racer but a master mariner, was a fan of the "racing trysail" on-boom setup.

Our boat has a three deeper-than-usual reefs in the main but it's still bigger than a trysail when reefed all the way, and when it gets tough even the maximum size trysail is too big. I've bought a new trysail and hope to fit a separate track because they work so well. I wouldn't leave the coast without a trysail and storm jib...... as I have mentioned here when I found a mate was going to do that , I sent him my old boat's trysail. He left without it and the next I knew was when the marine rescue guys called me from Canberra to say he had set off an EPIRB and that his ex-wife advised them to call me about what his experience and likely reaction would be. That was a few months after another guy I knew with the same experience had been lost on the same size boat in the same area (Bass Strait) after his sails fell apart.

As Lydia said, when you need storm sails they have to be small and designed for the job.

PS - keeping storm sails in the bag as they are connected to the track or forestay works very well. IMHO they should also be stopped with wool around them so that you can get the halyard up (for a storm jib) or get the outhaul out (for a trysail) before breaking the sail out under sheet or halyard tension respectively. Personally as they are light I store them under the Vee berth - there is motion there in storm conditions but they are less likely to be under other gear.

If you cannot set a storm jib and trysail quickly and efficiently in practise in the conditions you can find in a howling day inshore then IMHO you should not be going far from shelter. Age is not critical but practise and the knowledge of how to move around a boat in severe conditions is. It gets down to things like balancing yourself so that your legs are under your c of g, or moving well crabwise. It may be a bit like surfing - it's a physical skill and if you are not up to it then don't go out.

Certainly in NSW we have howling winter westerlies every year that are excellent practise days. The water is flat but the wind forces are high. IMHO you should be able to go out for a relaxing sail with the boat going fast under full control when everyone else has been blown away. If you can't sail inshore in a big, big westerly without a G & T in one hand (or your own preferred equivalent) then it's not time to go far offshore.