Has anyone had good or bad experiences with Lithium Ion that they would like to Share?
Would you recommend a good knowlegable dealer?

I have installed a 260 AH lifepo4 house battery bank to replace a 330AH bank of lifeline AGMs about 2 years ago.
I purchased the batteries (8 x 130ah cells) from EV Power in WA
They are great and highly recommended. I think they are superior to Lead Acid technology in size, weight, charging time, discharge characteristics, cost per USEABLE amp hour, and operating voltage. Like any battery including lead acid you need to ensure that you do not overcharge and do not run down to zero charge.

Hi,

I assume that that you are still using a lead acid battery for engine starting? Are there then issues with charging the different battery types, and how do you manage charging both house and starting from the engine alternator?

thanks

I have just rebuilt a racer/cruiser catamaran and weight is very important.
Starting from scratch I would like to go down the Lithium Ion road for weight purposes and am struggling to get fair dinkum knowledge from dealers. Everyone tells me a different story.
I don't want someone to tell me what I need but would appreciate some good dealer feedback
thanks.

I recently read an interesting article on Lithium batteries and will try and locate it and post if here. From memory the basics were that they were expensive but in the long run, just as, if not more cost effective as current technology. They are able to be cycled a greater number of times and at much higher rates than what we are used to. I'm not an authority on this stuff, just recalling a bit of what I read.

any updated photo's hangtime?

I've installed a medium-size lithium housebank, and am content with it.
I hated the 70kg worth of lead-acid batteries it replaced - hard to tie down solidly, hard to carry in through the companionway on my own.

With lead-acid so heavy, I felt it HAD to be located low down in the bilge. But that's also the space that first gets flooded in any mishap - so the battery bank and connections are the first things to get flooded.

I'm prepared to situate the lighter Lithium's higher up so they only flood if the water level rises quite a bit.

If you buy Lithium's, you could consider EV Power's (Perth) protection product - a small Cell Module connected to every individual cell (4 cells in a 12v batt). This module will disconnect the Lithium from chargers/loads if any single cell of the Lithium goes out of permitted voltage range - high or low. Quite good since they cost only $15 each - so around $60 for four.

You can also get more elaborate and expensive battery protection systems.

I happened to have an alternator controller (an Australian Ingram product) that has an adjustment screw for alternator output voltage - so I adjusted it to suit the Lithium.

The engine battery is a lead acid gel. This will be replaced with LiFePO4 if it ever dies. Now about 8years old>
The batteries are connected to the alternator through a 1, 2, both rotary switch
The house batteries are normally charged by my solar panels and an MPPT controler.
The controller is programmable and can disconnect load if the batteries drop to a programmable min voltage.
The start battery is normally charged by the alternator.
The lithim cells, are individually monitored with a Junsi CellLog Monitor (Very Cheap) but no automatic cell balancing fitted.
I leave the fridge running 24/7 so that the system cycles, and I have cold drinks whenever I am on board.
I have checked the alternator current with a clamp meter with the switch set to both but have found the current to be negligible. Probably due to the fact that the solar voltage is telling the alternator regulator that everything is fully charged.
I will get around to checking this with the solar disconnected one day. and I suspect that an adjustable charge controller will be on the wish list one day.

Regards

Ive three lead acid house batteries 420 amp hours plus a lead acid engine battery 120 amp hours the engine battery was with the boat when I bought it.
Ive add on caterpillar 120 amp hour battery plus two 150 amp hour old caterpillar batteries. LG 34 volt 300 watt solar panel and my Engels MB40V runs 24 /7 .I be adding another Engels MB40 V next week. Once thats fitted I am hoping to remove that solar panel and fit two 120 watt flexible panels on the cabin roof pending power used
Ok the batteries are heavy but I cant see me ever paying those sort of prices for a battery. I have the two 150 amp hours under the floor and two 120 amp hour in a separate area at least 600 mm above the others
Im in no hurry to get any where and would rather spend the extra dollars some where else on the boat. Once Ive gone through a complete year of seasons Ill calculate what Ive used and remove wasted amp hours ,meaning smaller batteries to suit the energy used.
I guess it boils down to choice and dollars but there way to expensive to be justified by me any way

They are not too expensive if you calculate whole of life cost. The whole point is that you need a smaller bank for the same amp hours used and they probably last more than twice as long.

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Libran said..
They are not too expensive if you calculate whole of life cost. The whole point is that you need a smaller bank for the same amp hours used and they probably last more than twice as long.

You stated your engine battery is 8 years old thats not to bad for a lead acid battery a quick browse of a LiFePO4 even at a 100 amp hours is going to cost over the 1,000 dollars thats a lot of lead acid batteries ?

Don't think you need a 100Ah lithium to start a 2-cyl diesel. But even if you wanted to, you could get a $599 100AH from EV-Power.

A lithium from EV Power at $249 weighing just 6.7kg will easily deliver 400A burst and operate at a higher voltage than standard lead-acid battery, giving you faster engine turn over. Lead-acid batteries drop to 12.5V when only 20% of the battery capacity has been used; in contrast lithium-ion batteries remain over 12.8V even when only 20% of the battery capacity is LEFT.

Sounds pretty good to me since I've seen my lead-acid drop from 12.7v to 12.0v after just three or four start attempts.

At this point my lead-acid "Deka" starting battery is still relatively new, so I'll run it until it dies. Then I'll look to get a Lithium to serve as both a starter and a backup house bank.

You have to keep in mind the extras - you need to verify/adjust the alternator charging set-point and provide cell-level protection/alarm when you replace the lead-acid starter with a lithium.

Karsten
I do agree with you there good things. I get my batteries from work at a staff discount which is very good value , good quality Caterpillar start or deep cycle lead acid.
My Bukh a easy starter and as far as my house batteries are concern they were free as we replaced two on a second hand grader and they were distended for scrape If I had not asked if I could have them.
So I have spent around $120 for 420 amp hours plus the original start battery 120amp .
At the moment I have a very very large list of B.O.A.T $$$$$ to send which if you ask Cisco he might explain and I need rigging and sails and a working stove way before I even think of any other batteries .
Ive never seen my batteries under 13.2 volts. (Thats with all my LEDs switch on at night with my fridge going plus my stereo )But I have not been living on her yet and have not gone through a Mexican winter with every thing conected. So I have to wait for a while longer to work out exactly what I need and use as far as power goes and even then I still have to raise the mast and rigging plus sails and see what shading effect Ill have .
I will fit two 12 volt 120 watt flexible solar panels on the cabin roof soon which will reduce what I was getting of my LG solar panel which is 300 watt 34 volt .
Time will tell for me and budget as well

Nothing can compete against a freeby.

Hi,
I just changed my bank from 200 Ah lead to 600 AH lithium from EV works OK the price did go up in the last month i was lucky ordered just before. The house bank cost was for 8 3.7 v 300 AH 3500$ plus delivery and the space it takes is the same as the old let battery.with a lot less weight around 24 kg the same i costed in lead AGM for 3000$ plus delivery the weight was 200 kg and live span in the tropics around 3 to 4 years lithium around 10 to 16 this battery's work in electric cars for the last 8 years under a lot more load strain than i have and Tim from EV Works answers all the questions even when you call more than ones like me supper service it is up to the person what there want we go for a around trip the long way around the world and don"t want to worry about do i have the power and will the battery hold as it will take 10 to 15 years i hope it helps

https://solar4rvs.com.au/prices-and-purchase.html
Ill be buying a couple of flexible panels off these guys just thought Id put a link up for interest re batteries

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HG02 said..
https://solar4rvs.com.au/prices-and-purchase.html
Ill be buying a couple of flexible panels off these guys just thought Id put a link up for interest re batteries

They look pretty good but HG, may I ask why you have chosen these particular flexible panels over others available online? Have you experience of these or were they recommended by a trusted source ?

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Karsten said..

HG02 said..
https://solar4rvs.com.au/prices-and-purchase.html
Ill be buying a couple of flexible panels off these guys just thought Id put a link up for interest re batteries

They look pretty good but HG, may I ask why you have chosen these particular flexible panels over others available online? Have you experience of these or were they recommended by a trusted source ?

Mainly the panel size Karsten the 135 watt panel by adding two panels fits on my cabin roof gives me 270 watt as the LG 300 watt I put on temporary was not a permanent solution




Hes a local suppler 10 minuet's from work most panels wont fit in the roof space can easily buy 100 watt some will fit others to wide
There was a 120 watt panel but in WA and a lot more money .
The cabin roof is available space and will get shaded from the rigging but a 30 foot boat you fit what you can where you can and utilize wasted the space available

Mean to add most flexible pales appear to be square its hard to find rectangular panels that are not to wide for my cabin roof and in my case these 135 watt panels are a reasonably good fit.
And no wind age like the panel above which is impractical where its located on my boat . I couldnt get to my boom if I needed to with that panel permanently fitted. The flexible you can walk on them

Thinking about solar charging batteries
Then thought I wonder what design battery recovers from lets say 11.9 volts to fully charged 14.2 volts
Using the same size solar panel on both lead acid & ion batteries and similar controllers
What battery would recover quicker?

How much current you have available ?
How much current can your battery accept without damage ?

Sorry none of these is relevant, you would't have available current to damage neither of those.
My ansver is ion, simply less internal losses and accepting low current charge.

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Charriot said..
How much current you have available ?
How much current can your battery accept without damage ?

Sorry none of these is relevant, you would't have available current to damage neither of those.
My ansver is ion, simply less internal losses and accepting low current charge.

That answered my question thanks Charriot . Ion has less internal loss. I never post a good explanatory question sorry
So there fore on a day with rain and some sun shine a Ion battery would gain more charge at the end of the day than a lead acid battery

an interesting comparison

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hangtime said..
I have just rebuilt a racer/cruiser catamaran and weight is very important.
Starting from scratch I would like to go down the Lithium Ion road for weight purposes and am struggling to get fair dinkum knowledge from dealers. Everyone tells me a different story.
I don't want someone to tell me what I need but would appreciate some good dealer feedback
thanks.

Thank god someone has had the same issues. I am in process of putting new boat into water and primary purpose is racing so weight is important. Same, could not get straight answer from anyone so have gone back to deep cycle batteries for the interim,

I still intend to change but at least now I can use the boat while I wade thro' the fact and fiction side of this. Same deal, happy to travel but if I can get straight answers locally i would shop local. so, question is, other than the guys in the West, can anyone recommend anybody in SA????

this one weight is 5 lbs