So after reading numerous posts about how great Kiwi grip is I went to get some to refinish the cocpit. But, and but!
After reading the application guide on their website (basically that can be applied easily to any surface including gelcoat and flowcoat)
the instructions on the can are waaaay different. It calls for a very comprehensive prep, sanding and if there is an oily surface (flowcoat) the oils must be treated and removed before applying. How did you prep your gelcoat/flowcoat before applying the kiwigrip?

Started with a 80 grit orbital sander, dusted off, then wiped over with acetone. Then some Norglass 1 pot undercoat/primer, again sanded with 80 grit orbital sander, dusted and wiped with acetone. Probably worth giving it a wash with something first if you're really worried, but I did mine while the boat was on a mooring, so I didn't have the luxury of choice.

That said, there was the odd splodge of kiwigrip I accidentally got on some high gloss paint and even without that prep work, it stuck there pretty well!

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Planeray said..
Started with a 80 grit orbital sander, dusted off, then wiped over with acetone. Then some Norglass 1 pot undercoat/primer, again sanded with 80 grit orbital sander, dusted and wiped with acetone. Probably worth giving it a wash with something first if you're really worried, but I did mine while the boat was on a mooring, so I didn't have the luxury of choice.

That said, there was the odd splodge of kiwigrip I accidentally got on some high gloss paint and even without that prep work, it stuck there pretty well!

My problem is that it will go on existing non skid textured flowcoat, that will be impossible to sand properly. My only option would be to use some sort of a liquid surface prepper, but something that will not damage the original flow coat. Don't think acetone is recommended to use on gel or flow coat and not sure it would properly degrease the flowcoat either.

Well, here's a gallery of what I did: imgur.com/a/04EWOB5

While mine wasn't over non skid texture flowcoat as such, it did have a VERY uneven surface to deal with. The Kiwigrip was happy as Larry being slapped all over it - the sanding is just to key it up so it sticks a bit better - not to get a fully flat surface.

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Seebreasy73 said..

Planeray said..
Started with a 80 grit orbital sander, dusted off, then wiped over with acetone. Then some Norglass 1 pot undercoat/primer, again sanded with 80 grit orbital sander, dusted and wiped with acetone. Probably worth giving it a wash with something first if you're really worried, but I did mine while the boat was on a mooring, so I didn't have the luxury of choice.

That said, there was the odd splodge of kiwigrip I accidentally got on some high gloss paint and even without that prep work, it stuck there pretty well!

My problem is that it will go on existing non skid textured flowcoat, that will be impossible to sand properly. My only option would be to use some sort of a liquid surface prepper, but something that will not damage the original flow coat. Don't think acetone is recommended to use on gel or flow coat and not sure it would properly degrease the flowcoat either.

you're not happy with your molded non-skid surface? If you really want to apply kiwigrip I'm afraid you will have to sand it smooth no?
I am restoring my deck which is covered by a molded diamond texture and I was just thinking of cleaning with a brush and re-painting.

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cazou34 said..

Seebreasy73 said..

Planeray said..
Started with a 80 grit orbital sander, dusted off, then wiped over with acetone. Then some Norglass 1 pot undercoat/primer, again sanded with 80 grit orbital sander, dusted and wiped with acetone. Probably worth giving it a wash with something first if you're really worried, but I did mine while the boat was on a mooring, so I didn't have the luxury of choice.

That said, there was the odd splodge of kiwigrip I accidentally got on some high gloss paint and even without that prep work, it stuck there pretty well!

My problem is that it will go on existing non skid textured flowcoat, that will be impossible to sand properly. My only option would be to use some sort of a liquid surface prepper, but something that will not damage the original flow coat. Don't think acetone is recommended to use on gel or flow coat and not sure it would properly degrease the flowcoat either.

you're not happy with your molded non-skid surface? If you really want to apply kiwigrip I'm afraid you will have to sand it smooth no?
I am restoring my deck which is covered by a molded diamond texture and I was just thinking of cleaning with a brush and re-painting.

not being not happy it is the case of being worn out after some 30+ odd years. I was originally thinking a new gel/flow coat, but praises I read about Kiwi grip made me rethink what I will use. Obviously, as far as I can read there are great benefits of Kiwi grip, such as ease of tuch up or re-coat with time. A new layer of gel/flow coat will not stick to the old one without de-oiling the surface, otherwords, without tremendous preparation.
Otherwise, I am happy with the look of the original non skid finish, they did a good job on the texture at the production line.

Select to expand quote

Seebreasy73 said..

cazou34 said..

Seebreasy73 said..

Planeray said..
Started with a 80 grit orbital sander, dusted off, then wiped over with acetone. Then some Norglass 1 pot undercoat/primer, again sanded with 80 grit orbital sander, dusted and wiped with acetone. Probably worth giving it a wash with something first if you're really worried, but I did mine while the boat was on a mooring, so I didn't have the luxury of choice.

That said, there was the odd splodge of kiwigrip I accidentally got on some high gloss paint and even without that prep work, it stuck there pretty well!

My problem is that it will go on existing non skid textured flowcoat, that will be impossible to sand properly. My only option would be to use some sort of a liquid surface prepper, but something that will not damage the original flow coat. Don't think acetone is recommended to use on gel or flow coat and not sure it would properly degrease the flowcoat either.

you're not happy with your molded non-skid surface? If you really want to apply kiwigrip I'm afraid you will have to sand it smooth no?
I am restoring my deck which is covered by a molded diamond texture and I was just thinking of cleaning with a brush and re-painting.

not being not happy it is the case of being worn out after some 30+ odd years. I was originally thinking a new gel/flow coat, but praises I read about Kiwi grip made me rethink what I will use. Obviously, as far as I can read there are great benefits of Kiwi grip, such as ease of tuch up or re-coat with time. A new layer of gel/flow coat will not stick to the old one without de-oiling the surface, otherwords, without tremendous preparation.
Otherwise, I am happy with the look of the original non skid finish, they did a good job on the texture at the production line.

I admit to being a little confused, you keep referring to the non skid pattern in the flowcoat and the need to degrease the flowcoat, however my experience is that the moulded pattern is in the original gelcoat from the original mould from which the boat was built. As such there would be no degreasing required. On the other hand flowcoat is the finish added to the interior surface of a fibreglass product for appearance purposes and it requires a wax in styrene additive in the final coat that enables it to cure. Why would you be adding a non skid surface to an internal flowcoated finish??

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UncleBob said..

Seebreasy73 said..

cazou34 said..

Seebreasy73 said..

Planeray said..
Started with a 80 grit orbital sander, dusted off, then wiped over with acetone. Then some Norglass 1 pot undercoat/primer, again sanded with 80 grit orbital sander, dusted and wiped with acetone. Probably worth giving it a wash with something first if you're really worried, but I did mine while the boat was on a mooring, so I didn't have the luxury of choice.

That said, there was the odd splodge of kiwigrip I accidentally got on some high gloss paint and even without that prep work, it stuck there pretty well!

My problem is that it will go on existing non skid textured flowcoat, that will be impossible to sand properly. My only option would be to use some sort of a liquid surface prepper, but something that will not damage the original flow coat. Don't think acetone is recommended to use on gel or flow coat and not sure it would properly degrease the flowcoat either.

you're not happy with your molded non-skid surface? If you really want to apply kiwigrip I'm afraid you will have to sand it smooth no?
I am restoring my deck which is covered by a molded diamond texture and I was just thinking of cleaning with a brush and re-painting.

not being not happy it is the case of being worn out after some 30+ odd years. I was originally thinking a new gel/flow coat, but praises I read about Kiwi grip made me rethink what I will use. Obviously, as far as I can read there are great benefits of Kiwi grip, such as ease of tuch up or re-coat with time. A new layer of gel/flow coat will not stick to the old one without de-oiling the surface, otherwords, without tremendous preparation.
Otherwise, I am happy with the look of the original non skid finish, they did a good job on the texture at the production line.

I admit to being a little confused, you keep referring to the non skid pattern in the flowcoat and the need to degrease the flowcoat, however my experience is that the moulded pattern is in the original gelcoat from the original mould from which the boat was built. As such there would be no degreasing required. On the other hand flowcoat is the finish added to the interior surface of a fibreglass product for appearance purposes and it requires a wax in styrene additive in the final coat that enables it to cure. Why would you be adding a non skid surface to an internal flowcoated finish??

the last layer of your boat's external gelcoat is a flowcoat, that seals and cures the gelcoat. That is what you polish and repels the water. If it were gelcoat, it would be a sticky surface. Most boats of older design will feature 2-3 layers of gelcoat and the top flowcoat.
You can texcture the gelcoat and flowcoat the same way you can texture Kiwi grip. Because of this you have those thousands of indentations, that is impossible to sand, unless you sand down the whole flowcoat 2-3 mm to even the surface. Without doing that, to clean and prep the existing area is difficult if not impossible with a sander.

It depends on how it was all applied.

If the boat has come from a mould, you spray the mould with gelcoat, and then spray or lay glass and that will cure the gelcoat. Or you can add a wax to the gelcoat and it will set, or you can cover the gelcoat to set it with peel-ply or a PVC spray. I've put glad-wrap over the top before. It worked, I wouldn't recommend it but the gelcoat set. I think all you need to do (much like a laminate resign) is starve it from air.

If your non-skid is the little pyramid shape you get from the mould on a lot of production boats, boatworks.com have a great tutorial on how to repair them. Ill see if I can find it.

Select to expand quote

Seebreasy73 said..

UncleBob said..

Seebreasy73 said..

cazou34 said..

Seebreasy73 said..

Planeray said..
Started with a 80 grit orbital sander, dusted off, then wiped over with acetone. Then some Norglass 1 pot undercoat/primer, again sanded with 80 grit orbital sander, dusted and wiped with acetone. Probably worth giving it a wash with something first if you're really worried, but I did mine while the boat was on a mooring, so I didn't have the luxury of choice.

That said, there was the odd splodge of kiwigrip I accidentally got on some high gloss paint and even without that prep work, it stuck there pretty well!

My problem is that it will go on existing non skid textured flowcoat, that will be impossible to sand properly. My only option would be to use some sort of a liquid surface prepper, but something that will not damage the original flow coat. Don't think acetone is recommended to use on gel or flow coat and not sure it would properly degrease the flowcoat either.

you're not happy with your molded non-skid surface? If you really want to apply kiwigrip I'm afraid you will have to sand it smooth no?
I am restoring my deck which is covered by a molded diamond texture and I was just thinking of cleaning with a brush and re-painting.

not being not happy it is the case of being worn out after some 30+ odd years. I was originally thinking a new gel/flow coat, but praises I read about Kiwi grip made me rethink what I will use. Obviously, as far as I can read there are great benefits of Kiwi grip, such as ease of tuch up or re-coat with time. A new layer of gel/flow coat will not stick to the old one without de-oiling the surface, otherwords, without tremendous preparation.
Otherwise, I am happy with the look of the original non skid finish, they did a good job on the texture at the production line.

I admit to being a little confused, you keep referring to the non skid pattern in the flowcoat and the need to degrease the flowcoat, however my experience is that the moulded pattern is in the original gelcoat from the original mould from which the boat was built. As such there would be no degreasing required. On the other hand flowcoat is the finish added to the interior surface of a fibreglass product for appearance purposes and it requires a wax in styrene additive in the final coat that enables it to cure. Why would you be adding a non skid surface to an internal flowcoated finish??

the last layer of your boat's external gelcoat is a flowcoat, that seals and cures the gelcoat. That is what you polish and repels the water. If it were gelcoat, it would be a sticky surface. Most boats of older design will feature 2-3 layers of gelcoat and the top flowcoat.
You can texcture the gelcoat and flowcoat the same way you can texture Kiwi grip. Because of this you have those thousands of indentations, that is impossible to sand, unless you sand down the whole flowcoat 2-3 mm to even the surface. Without doing that, to clean and prep the existing area is difficult if not impossible with a sander.

I beg to disagree, a boat that is made from a mould first has the gelcoat applied to the mould then multiple layers of glass to the required thickness and then the internal finish is flow coat. The gelcoat has a smooth cured surface from the mould, not sticky because it was sealed against the mould during the construction phase. Flow coat will remain sticky without the addition of wax in styrene in the final coat. Flow coat is not added to a finished fibre glass surface. The texture finish is created on the original plug from which the mould is taken. And yes I have built a plug, mould and finished boat.

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Toph said..
It depends on how it was all applied.

If the boat has come from a mould, you spray the mould with gelcoat, and then spray or lay glass and that will cure the gelcoat. Or you can add a wax to the gelcoat and it will set, or you can cover the gelcoat to set it with peel-ply or a PVC spray. I've put glad-wrap over the top before. It worked, I wouldn't recommend it but the gelcoat set. I think all you need to do (much like a laminate resign) is starve it from air.

If your non-skid is the little pyramid shape you get from the mould on a lot of production boats, boatworks.com have a great tutorial on how to repair them. Ill see if I can find it.

Select to expand quote

cazou34 said..

Toph said..
It depends on how it was all applied.

If the boat has come from a mould, you spray the mould with gelcoat, and then spray or lay glass and that will cure the gelcoat. Or you can add a wax to the gelcoat and it will set, or you can cover the gelcoat to set it with peel-ply or a PVC spray. I've put glad-wrap over the top before. It worked, I wouldn't recommend it but the gelcoat set. I think all you need to do (much like a laminate resign) is starve it from air.

If your non-skid is the little pyramid shape you get from the mould on a lot of production boats, boatworks.com have a great tutorial on how to repair them. Ill see if I can find it.

Exactly, and with a little care one can make a new non skid panel to match the old one, however it does require rather a lot of care and dedication whereas the sanding back of the offending area and the addition of a product like Kiwi Grip is a very good solution.

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UncleBob said..
I beg to disagree, a boat that is made from a mould first has the gelcoat applied to the mould then multiple layers of glass to the required thickness and then the internal finish is flow coat. The gelcoat has a smooth cured surface from the mould, not sticky because it was sealed against the mould during the construction phase. Flow coat will remain sticky without the addition of wax in styrene in the final coat. Flow coat is not added to a finished fibre glass surface. The texture finish is created on the original plug from which the mould is taken. And yes I have built a plug, mould and finished boat.

Got to agree with UncleBob
After you wax the mould it gets sprayed with a thick coat of gelcoat that has been well catalysed, after the gelcoat goes off, lay in a tie layer followed by one layer of woven cloth after which you build the rest of the hull according the lay up schedule. After all that is done then you can apply flowcoat which has the wax in styrene to feel dry to the touch. Like UncleBob I too have done the plug and build thing.

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LooseChange said..

UncleBob said..
I beg to disagree, a boat that is made from a mould first has the gelcoat applied to the mould then multiple layers of glass to the required thickness and then the internal finish is flow coat. The gelcoat has a smooth cured surface from the mould, not sticky because it was sealed against the mould during the construction phase. Flow coat will remain sticky without the addition of wax in styrene in the final coat. Flow coat is not added to a finished fibre glass surface. The texture finish is created on the original plug from which the mould is taken. And yes I have built a plug, mould and finished boat.

Got to agree with UncleBob
After you wax the mould it gets sprayed with a thick coat of gelcoat that has been well catalysed, after the gelcoat goes off, lay in a tie layer followed by one layer of woven cloth after which you build the rest of the hull according the lay up schedule. After all that is done then you can apply flowcoat which has the wax in styrene to feel dry to the touch. Like UncleBob I too have done the plug and build thing.

ok, what is the difference between a gelcoat added wax so it cures and flowcoat? Nothing. Flow coat cannot be used to layer as gelcoat can be but gelcoat can be made into a "flowcoat" by adding in the wax. You can put a flowcoat on a fiberglass finish to create a thinner finish that is water repellent, and if you use the geloat, you can add a few layers on top of fiberglass. Than you can either apply a flowcoat as a final layer or add in wax into the last layer into the gelcoat to achieve the same. Done both and I cannot tell the difference, at least I cannot. Anyways, I am happy to do either, for me both pretty much the same.

Application of kiwigrip applied today.
Colour tint was radar quater.
Problems encounted.....little black bugs everywhere today! lighter sections that need recoating and direct sunlight causing it to gel to quick.
Now time to advance for the decks and cabin sides!

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southace said..
Application of kiwigrip applied today.
Colour tint was radar quater.
Problems encounted.....little black bugs everywhere today! lighter sections that need recoating and direct sunlight causing it to gel to quick.
Now time to advance for the decks and cabin sides!

Looking good !!

Best was my first attempt in a small section this morning. Applied with trowel thick and rolled out. Went a bit pear shaped after that in larger sections using a brush then the roller. Do not apply in direct sunlight.

That's still a damn good effort - especially if you were doing it by yourself.

If you really hate it, you can just sand it off and start again, but I'd be happy with that result personally!

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Planeray said..
That's still a damn good effort - especially if you were doing it by yourself.

If you really hate it, you can just sand it off and start again, but I'd be happy with that result personally!

The trick is to tarp up or do it on a cloudy day. I tarped up the bow section but just one section was in a bit of sun I thought I could wing it but turned out I ended dragging lumps through the rest of the job. I also think it really needs 2 coats or applied super thick.
i used 1/4 of a 4 litre to do those cabin top areas.

For those out there that have been doing their Kiwigrip over a period of time, how long will a tin last once opened? I'm epoxy priming my port hull this weekend and my thought was to Kiwigrip it ASAP. That means at least another few weeks of preparing and priming the starboard hull before I get the Kiwigrip out again. Will it still be OK?

I gave my decks a light sand and painted over the top with the kiwigrip Roller. Decks Still good after 3 years. The biggest prep was taping up. The stuffs so tacky it pretty much hoes on and stays on anything. Kiwi grip forever.

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Sectorsteve said..
I have my decks a light sand and painted over the top with the kiwigrip Roller. Still good after 3years.

You had your tin open for 3 years ?????

^

Gave the decks and cabin top a good scrub today after being away from Icon for a number of months, nearly 12 months on the kiwi grip and Auqatrim satin white is still in as new condition. I can't wait for summer so I can finish the coating on the cabin sides and decks, will be just a home and hosed job after that.