www.nbnnews.com.au/2019/01/12/four-escape-injury-as-boat-washes-ashore-on-central-coast-beach/?fbclid=IwAR2pOPQZhBO-_cR_eiwekbL4_iwRuyZHdnRl0n4CK4ZYyEmlVWrtT6ZFUFA

I thought the wind was pretty much onshore here yesterday arvo.

Fuel for the debate about heading offshore in bad weather.

Strange. BOM observations for Norah Head indicate fairly benign conditions for last evening.

Glad they're all okay.

www.nbnnews.com.au/2019/01/12/big-salvage-bill-expected-after-yacht-runs-aground/?fbclid=IwAR0d2sE3jgM1XMQTPD-kSGmNiWw4DrIfF_pGr_milip-qFTFRGtEk1YOa1Y

Here is another disappointing performance from an "experienced sailor"on a "well found" sailing yacht.

So where are the people who said 'insurance is not worth having'?

Strewth!

Dragged her anchor on a sand bottom. Interesting to see what sort of plough anchor was deployed!

The wrong type, l can assure you it was not a Rocna of sufficient size.

Wonder, what was his reason not sailing the damned thing?
All sails furled, bagged with four on board??? Another sailing genius without insurance, at least not a statistic.

How to Look up historical Wind Data:

In above posts reference is made to wind conditions on Friday evening, which brings up the general issue of checking wind conditions in the past - say one month ago. Is it possible ?

The BOM web site seems to only provide about 48h of history for it's weather stations, unless I am missing something.

Does anyone know of any online resource where you can look up historical wind data for Australian coastal locations ?

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Ramona said..
Dragged her anchor on a sand bottom. Interesting to see what sort of plough anchor was deployed!

Did it drag? Or did it break? Or maybe they had insufficient scope out? Or too little chain?
I have anchored MB in gusts up to 45 kts and up to a metre of sea with a plough anchor. She has been regularly anchored in 20-25kts. Never budged.

In retrospect you would think that unfurling a bit of the genoa would have enabled them to gain sea room in a NE breeze (as sirgallivant suggests). The NNE breeze was, however, pretty fresh on the Coast on Friday afternoon and it would have been right on the nose if they were heading to Port Stephens. I would probably have enacted plan C and ran back to Broken Bay, if the boat/crew was battling to make headway North. But without knowing the full circumstances (Seasickness? damaged rig? Type of primary anchor?) it is probably unfair to criticize their decision to try to anchor in the lee of Norah Head.

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Karsten said..
How to Look up historical Wind Data:

In above posts reference is made to wind conditions on Friday evening, which brings up the general issue of checking wind conditions in the past - say one month ago. Is it possible ?

The BOM web site seems to only provide about 48h of history for it's weather stations, unless I am missing something.

Does anyone know of any online resource where you can look up historical wind data for Australian coastal locations ?

Norah Head, New South Wales
January 2019 Daily Weather Observations

www.bom.gov.au/climate/dwo/IDCJDW2099.latest.shtml

Taken from the WWSA Facebook page.

Is the rudder missing?

The growth on that hull! Whooa!
Santa's beard is a 'three day's growth' compared to that. No wonder they were drifting onto shore.
The missing keel and rudder is the result not the cause, methinks.
The fact, that they had a rough afternoon 16.00-20.00, according to the weather data, is not the cause of this mishap.
It looks like, was self inflicted by a dirty bottom and lack of nous.

Don't you just love ferro boats!

We sailed past there yesterday and nothing drastic weather wise. A risk factor of pulling up on anchor is to think one is safe and go downstairs and not keep a watch. Last night at mid night we had to up anchor due to dragging and re put it down which worked second time. I think the sand anchor didnt like a smooth rock seabed. I could feel it dragging. Awoke to many beeps from GPS anchor watch and Trek unit! Relocation was possible because of motor, maybe they didn't have a working one that's all I can think of.

This type of accidents seems to happening quite frequently.
I would like to know the cause of these accidents.
When I sat my marine license in Japan, we had to read and answer questions on 4 official marine accident reports, all involving fatalities.
Very educating.

My question is, where can we access and read accident reports for these groundings in Australia?
I found this for major or commercial shipping accidents
www.atsb.gov.au/publications/safety-investigation-reports/
but nothing that covers lesser accidents.

I guess each state has a different system.
But do the states have accident report information,
Anyone know?

Gary
Found a couple
www.mast.tas.gov.au/safety/incident-reporting/
www.msq.qld.gov.au/About-us/Marine-incident-annual-reports

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garymalmgren said..
This type of accidents seems to happening quite frequently.
I would like to know the cause of these accidents.
When I sat my marine license in Japan, we had to read and answer questions on 4 official marine accident reports, all involving fatalities.
Very educating.

My question is, where can we access and read accident reports for these groundings in Australia?
I found this for major or commercial shipping accidents
www.atsb.gov.au/publications/safety-investigation-reports/
but nothing that covers lesser accidents.

I guess each state has a different system.
But do the states have accident report information,
Anyone know?

Gary
Found a couple
www.mast.tas.gov.au/safety/incident-reporting/
www.msq.qld.gov.au/About-us/Marine-incident-annual-reports

Thats true. A similar one a month ago. Investigation is a double edged sword. It will likely find competence the biggest issue I reckon (which also covers going out on the water in a dubious boat) but could hand the government the opportunity it so loves to make us all get licences, wear crash helmets, only go out in day time and do tests and get more $$$ out of everybody

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MorningBird said..

Did it drag? Or did it break? Or maybe they had insufficient scope out? Or too little chain?
I have anchored MB in gusts up to 45 kts and up to a metre of sea with a plough anchor. She has been regularly anchored in 20-25kts. Never budged.

Owner reckoned it dragged in the interview.

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Ramona said..

MorningBird said..

Did it drag? Or did it break? Or maybe they had insufficient scope out? Or too little chain?
I have anchored MB in gusts up to 45 kts and up to a metre of sea with a plough anchor. She has been regularly anchored in 20-25kts. Never budged.

Owner reckoned it dragged in the interview.

I wouldn't be confident he would know. If it did drag why?
MB is a heavy 34' boat and has never dragged. I have 20 metres of chain and set a minimum scope of 5 and up to 10 if it is blowing.
A plough anchor set correctly in sand or good mud works fine.

I have watched big boats drag anchor at long way before they notice , if there is nothing near you to fix on it's easy to think your ok. Maybe it dragged to the point of no return before it was noticed. I only have a large plough anchor on my 32 ft boat , but I have 100 Meters of chain which I'm not afraid to use .

Assuming the anchor and rode are, were sufficient, I have had drag issues with weed and sea grass fouling the anchor. Not sure if that could be the issue there? but Station beach at the back of Palm Beach is a good place to experience weed fouling.
richard

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sirgallivant said..
The growth on that hull! Whooa!
Santa's beard is a 'three day's growth' compared to that. No wonder they were drifting onto shore.
The missing keel and rudder is the result not the cause, methinks.
The fact, that they had a rough afternoon 16.00-20.00, according to the weather data, is not the cause of this mishap.
It looks like, was self inflicted by a dirty bottom and lack of nous.

I feel bad for them for a pretty horrible experience, but I just cannot understand how anyone can enjoy sailing, or for that matter even sail, with a bottom like that. It's just not enjoyable. My last clean was 7 weeks ago and I can feel it on every gust or wave, it's a sluggish horrible draggy response that feels like the boat is full of water.
If you're just completing a loong bluewater cruise, sure, I have no issue with it. That's about the only reason I can rationalize.

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MorningBird said..


I wouldn't be confident he would know. If it did drag why?
MB is a heavy 34' boat and has never dragged. I have 20 metres of chain and set a minimum scope of 5 and up to 10 if it is blowing.
A plough anchor set correctly in sand or good mud works fine.

Few months ago I anchored a very expensive 45 footer we had just towed in the river. CQR anchor with full chain. Strong Westerly and flat water. I sat in the bow for 20 minutes with my hand on the chain feeling the anchor slowly plow it's way. Traveled probably 100 metres or so and was heading in a safe direction. Wind was easing and I knew the owner was along shortly so I left it. My 13 kg Ultra copy would have stopped it dead. I had 10 metres of 10mm chain on my anchor, I have just reduced that to 5 metres. Modern anchors are the cheapest insurance there is.

Agreed!
The Rocna, l had, worked fine even without chain!
Many asked me, why am l carrying 3 anchors, multiple chains, rodes?
The same reason, l was having full insurance.
"Nonquam non paratus!"

I'm with Phantom32 - always a bit hesitant to criticise in such cases.

It's often said life is better if you push yourself out of your comfort zone. But of course it's more likely you'll make mistakes when you're out of your comfort zone.
Maybe the skipper was heading north for cheaper slipping than Sydney, maybe he had engine or multiple gear failures (who has never had an unexpected gear failure), maybe he didn't monitor for dragging diligently enough, maybe he didn't have a modern anchor.

Unless it is known that he was criminally negligent, I always feel such an unexpected mishap could happen to me any day - boating or driving a car or buying a house or selecting a job. And there may well be sideline calls of incompetence.

Maybe all of the above doesn't matter providing he forks out for the cleanup bill which shouldn't be passed onto the community.

Unless it's deliberate, by criminal act or grossly negligent, I don't have a problem with the community bearing the recovery cost. Our taxes, rego, stamp duties etc should be more than enough to provide for these kind of accidents to be cleaned up. Most likely a case of inexperience, over confidence, gear failure/neglect or something like that. Forgivable in my view.

Nothing wrong with those out there having a go on very tight budgets, marginally seaworthy boats, inexperienced, old, young, whatever! Good on 'em!

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Karsten said..
How to Look up historical Wind Data:

In above posts reference is made to wind conditions on Friday evening, which brings up the general issue of checking wind conditions in the past - say one month ago. Is it possible ?

The BOM web site seems to only provide about 48h of history for it's weather stations, unless I am missing something.

Does anyone know of any online resource where you can look up historical wind data for Australian coastal locations ?

Willy Weather gives you a 5 year average in a Wind Rose format.. The NOAA site also gives averages for each month on their pilot guides.

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Toph said..

Karsten said..

In above posts reference is made to wind conditions on Friday evening, which brings up the general issue of checking wind conditions in the past - say one month ago. Is it possible ?

Willy Weather gives you a 5 year average in a Wind Rose format.. The NOAA site also gives averages for each month on their pilot guides.

Thanks Toph, useful references.
Though I meant if I wanted to check, for example, the wind state at Norah Head around 9pm on 30 November.
The data undoubtedly exists, since there's a computerised weather station there, but I don't think it's available free of charge, unless someone knows where it can be looked up.

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Ramona said..

MorningBird said..


I wouldn't be confident he would know. If it did drag why?
MB is a heavy 34' boat and has never dragged. I have 20 metres of chain and set a minimum scope of 5 and up to 10 if it is blowing.
A plough anchor set correctly in sand or good mud works fine.

Few months ago I anchored a very expensive 45 footer we had just towed in the river. CQR anchor with full chain. Strong Westerly and flat water. I sat in the bow for 20 minutes with my hand on the chain feeling the anchor slowly plow it's way. Traveled probably 100 metres or so and was heading in a safe direction. Wind was easing and I knew the owner was along shortly so I left it. My 13 kg Ultra copy would have stopped it dead. I had 10 metres of 10mm chain on my anchor, I have just reduced that to 5 metres. Modern anchors are the cheapest insurance there is.

How do you tell that the anchor is dragging from the feel of the chain?
Vibrations? Going slack?

From my experience, the chain or rode vibrates or shimmies. In a strong wind with a sail boat, she drifts and slides side ways, rather than sailing up on the anchor in a figure eight pattern, like normal!
Cheers Richard

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Yara said..

Ramona said..

MorningBird said..


I wouldn't be confident he would know. If it did drag why?
MB is a heavy 34' boat and has never dragged. I have 20 metres of chain and set a minimum scope of 5 and up to 10 if it is blowing.
A plough anchor set correctly in sand or good mud works fine.

Few months ago I anchored a very expensive 45 footer we had just towed in the river. CQR anchor with full chain. Strong Westerly and flat water. I sat in the bow for 20 minutes with my hand on the chain feeling the anchor slowly plow it's way. Traveled probably 100 metres or so and was heading in a safe direction. Wind was easing and I knew the owner was along shortly so I left it. My 13 kg Ultra copy would have stopped it dead. I had 10 metres of 10mm chain on my anchor, I have just reduced that to 5 metres. Modern anchors are the cheapest insurance there is.

How do you tell that the anchor is dragging from the feel of the chain?
Vibrations? Going slack?

you can feel it bumping along