Hi All, My boat runs a Perkins Prima M60 which is the same as a Volvo Pentra M22L The motor has never missed a beat for three years and without any warning she just will not start, have checked and replaced anything that i think needed replacing but still no go. I went to a local repairer and booked it in, which was for a week ago but, he called last Friday and told me he was too busy and hadn't been to the boat and obviously hadn't fixed the motor, now a week later still no fix, my question is... does anyone know of a good reliable diesel mechanic that is around Five Dock Bay on Sydney harbour that know there way around a diesel engine and can come to my boat and at least find out what is wrong with it and hopefully get her running ???? any help would be gratefully appreciated.. thanks

lets see what you can do
1/. Does the motor crank over by the starter motor like it did 3 years go rotates the engine at a reasonable speed to start the engine?

2/. When you crank by the stater motor can you see any smoke coming out the exhaust.

3/. If you have a priming pump I would crack open a bleed screw it would be on top of fuel fuel filter don't not open the nut that hold the filter to the housing it would be the center nut there should be a bleed screw to one side Use your priming pump and open the bleed screw making sure once fuel comes out the bleed screw you nip it up don,t over tighten it once you have established fuel at the fuel trace your fuel line towards the injector pump maybe you have a bleed screw there as well .
if so bleed that one then continue to 4

4/. If the motor cranks over by the starter motor I would undo a injector line at the injector ( meaning the feed line thats has a fuel line nut screwed onto the injector) While cranking the engine over crack a injector open with a spanner see it it spits out fuel you don't need to undo the injector nut completely just one turn will do . Leave it open till you can see fuel coming out from the line around the injector nut when it does do the nut up once again and repeat the process with all your other injectors.

Need more info as to what you replaced???

Hi HG02,
In answer to your questions, The parts replaced, When i started looking around the motor trying to find if the problem was a obvious one i found that the tensioner bearing on the timing belt had collapsed so i replaced the Tensioner bearing , the idler bearing and the timing belt. i thought that possibly the belt had jumped a tooth on the injector pump which was why it wouldn't start, i re-timed the engine by placing a pin through the bell housing into the fly wheel, at the same time placing a pin through the hole on the top of the cam shaft cover and into the allotted hole in the cam, while aligning the A mark on the injector wheel with the knotch on the engine. The motor runs if i spray Aerostart into the air intake, which suggests to me the timing is correct. I replaced the three relays at the front of thee motor, and have replaced the two fuel filters, i have cleaned the filter on the top of the primer pump and bleed the top screw on the top of the filter bolted to the motor that leeds to the injector pump. the boat has a switch were by i can bring the three large batteries together to give full battery power to the starter. When the motor was running by spraying Aerostart into the air intake i nipped open each of the injector lines on the engine and each of them had fuel being sprayed, but still no start. ???? hope this helps a little

Select to expand quote

Ben405 said..
Hi HG02,
In answer to your questions, The parts replaced, When i started looking around the motor trying to find if the problem was a obvious one i found that the tensioner bearing on the timing belt had collapsed so i replaced the Tensioner bearing , the idler bearing and the timing belt. i thought that possibly the belt had jumped a tooth on the injector pump which was why it wouldn't start, i re-timed the engine by placing a pin through the bell housing into the fly wheel, at the same time placing a pin through the hole on the top of the cam shaft cover and into the allotted hole in the cam, while aligning the A mark on the injector wheel with the knotch on the engine. The motor runs if i spray Aerostart into the air intake, which suggests to me the timing is correct. I replaced the three relays at the front of thee motor, and have replaced the two fuel filters, i have cleaned the filter on the top of the primer pump and bleed the top screw on the top of the filter bolted to the motor that leeds to the injector pump. the boat has a switch were by i can bring the three large batteries together to give full battery power to the starter. When the motor was running by spraying Aerostart into the air intake i nipped open each of the injector lines on the engine and each of them had fuel being sprayed, but still no start. ???? hope this helps a little

Don't use to much of that Aerostart if you can help it .
Ok This might sound silly but what Id do to make sure your timing is right remove an injector place a finger over the injector hole so you can feel compression when your rotating it, making sure you are rotating the motor the correct way (clock wise or anti clock wise not sure on your motor. turn it over with the starter to make sure you know)
When you feel the compressor rise against your finger watch the injector if it spills as it reaches top dead center and you can feel the compression on your finger.
You then know for sure your fuel timing is correct or close enough

I can remember when I owned a farm and the farmer next door had a southern cross single cylinder in a little tin shed stinking hot day .
I spent 4 hours sweating in there and went home eventually with it still not going did every thing by the book when I rang him I found out the motor was a kibitz
meaning it was made out of several models and the flywheel marks on the fly wheel were for a different motor.
So I went back down there and did exactly as above found top dead center and also the injector spill and bingo away she went .
I did really enjoy making a fuel timing mark on the fly wheel before I left with a cold chisels and a 4 pound hammer stood out like a dogs breakfast and it felt good to
Ive done the say thing on another motor 3 other mechanics could not getting it going so I went back to basics and it started .
When crank shaft rotates once the camshaft twice the cam shaft maybe be out one revolution meaning the cam shaft maybe out by 180 degrees

have fun and get back to me
Your lucky up there you have some nice water ways

This may sound very obvious, but is the fuel level in the tank above the level of the pick up pipe?

Another maybe obvious one ... is there a lift pump from the fuel tank to the injector pump?

I know you said you saw a squirt of fuel, but maybe that was just what was in the injector pump.

Select to expand quote

LooseChange said..
This may sound very obvious, but is the fuel level in the tank above the level of the pick up pipe?

Another maybe obvious one ... is there a lift pump from the fuel tank to the injector pump?

I know you said you saw a squirt of fuel, but maybe that was just what was in the injector pump.

hes stated it has fuel to the filter L.C.
To me hes saying that the injectors are fueling what I think he may have the fuel timing out by 180 degrees. so number one wont be injecting fuel on compression stroke it maybe be on the exhaust stroke meaning the cam shaft is 180 degrees out
That why I like him to rotate the motor with the injector removed and watching when the fuel spill from the injector fuel line when his finger is covering the injector hole
Some time Ive put a screw driver down the injector hole once I know the fuel is spilling on compression stroke to find TDC and as in the old southern cross and made my own fuel timing mark

Because we are talking about a diesel engine which are veeeery haaard to start cold, did you check your glow plugs? One is gone, they all go dead. It is going to flatten your starting battery by just cranking and cranking and...
It might be your salvation for about ten or twenty bucks each.

He had problems with the timing belt tensioner and bearings before he started replaced those and perhaps he had the injection timing out by one turn 180 which means his injector would not be injecting on the compression stroke.. Also he said when he sprayed Aerostart into the intake the motor ran while spraying it

I put my thinking cap on and came to a conclusion that;
If you got the timing right, and the engine starts and runs on Startyabastard, your problem should be fuel.
Is your fuel shut off walve operating? When one turns the igniting key a solenoid opens the fuel supply. Nothing to do with the fuel pump. If that solenoid is cactus, you never start it.
I put the question to my engineer mate and he agreed as the most likely cause.
I must, whoever, emphasise the basic requirement, the timing is correctly set up. You got fuel in your tank, that fuel is able to be picked up by the fuel pump and delivered to the injectors IF THE SHUT OFF VALVE LET'S IT.



The 180 degrees mis-alignment of the timing probably would have caused your valves hit the top of the piston and bend the valve stem or knock a hole into it.
I am not a mechanic just an old trucking, thou.

Tell us how did you fare!

Not 180 of the valve timing, but rather 180 of the injector pump. It it runs on aerostart but not on diesel then the valve timing is correct, but as R2D2 has surmised the injector pump could be out of timing synch.

Think of the injector as being the diesel equivalent of distributor on a petrol engine, even though the valve timing is correct if the distributor is not set correctly, the spark will happen at the wrong time.

You have to remember what he said that is his timing belt was cactus along with his idler tensioner and when he could not start it he look and found that . It may have jumped a few teeth at that stage and it would be quiet easy to have the marks right but a full turn out
Thats why I am focused on the injection timing.
I could be wrong like I have been many times over my life Ha Ha after all I live in forwards backs land

Ben, any smoke when you try to start it. "ANY" be it black white blue.
No smoke, no fuel.. simple.
So next test, crack an injector line, spin it over, see if its pumping fuel, or check to see if your shut off solenoid is actuating.
There are four lines out of the back of the injector pump. Hold the adapter that's in the pump then crack nut on any line, loosen so the line can be moved but don't completely take off. Do one that is easy to get too. If its pumping fuel, and its sprays out the side of the loosened nut, and I mean not a dribble, but a spray then then you can eliminate its in shut off, and its getting fuel.
Keep some rag handy to mop up any split fuel.
But big question, any smoke, and as I said, no smoke no fuel..

He's on the boat at the week end so he should be nice and fresh
Hopefully he'll find a solution

He's back on the boat this weekend
Hopefully I'll find the problem

He's back on the boat this weekend
Hopefully I'll find the problem

Thanks guys for all the knowledge and wisdom, I followed the advise as given, I set the crank and cam timing by inserting the keys in the appropriate wholes, i then removed the timing belt by adjusting the tensioner (actually removed the idler pulley as well ) Both the Perkins book and the Volvo book say to time the injector pulley to the A: mark on the fuel injector pulley, but as that hadn't worked i now timed it to the B: (supposedly the timing mark for Turbo engines) mark which was 180 degrees from the A: and replaced the tensioner and idler bearings and low and behold it started almost straight away, So again Thank for the great information, i know a truck load more about Diesels now. Thanks all Happy Sailing...

Big cheer ..... YAYYYYYY

You may also like to know that most Volvo engines are actually Perkins engines which are actually Shibaura ...which are actually ........... your guess is as good as any ones.

Select to expand quote

Ben405 said..
Thanks guys for all the knowledge and wisdom, I followed the advise as given, I set the crank and cam timing by inserting the keys in the appropriate wholes, i then removed the timing belt by adjusting the tensioner (actually removed the idler pulley as well ) Both the Perkins book and the Volvo book say to time the injector pulley to the A: mark on the fuel injector pulley, but as that hadn't worked i now timed it to the B: (supposedly the timing mark for Turbo engines) mark which was 180 degrees from the A: and replaced the tensioner and idler bearings and low and behold it started almost straight away, So again Thank for the great information, i know a truck load more about Diesels now. Thanks all Happy Sailing...

Thats the big bonus Ben you know more after and next time your on to it and now you can shout your self a few beers with the money you saved

Select to expand quote

LooseChange said..
Big cheer ..... YAYYYYYY

You may also like to know that most Volvo engines are actually Perkins engines which are actually Shibaura ...which are actually ........... your guess is as good as any ones.

some small Perkins are also Cat motors ( mini stuff) I think

Select to expand quote

HG02 said..


some small Perkins are also Cat motors ( mini stuff) I think

Yeah, that'd be coz Cat now own Perkins

I love my Perkins and hate Volvo! My Perkins is not the same as a Volvo!

Select to expand quote

LooseChange said..

HG02 said..


some small Perkins are also Cat motors ( mini stuff) I think

Yeah, that'd be coz Cat now own Perkins

They bought it with there loose change L.C.

Select to expand quote

southace said..
I love my Perkins and hate Volvo! My Perkins is not the same as a Volvo!

So I guess technically, I could send you a couple of Caterpillar yellow spray cans South Ace.. Then I could possibly do SoS samples on it to make sure it does not have any Volvo contamination

Select to expand quote

southace said..
I love my Perkins and hate Volvo! My Perkins is not the same as a Volvo!

Your Perkins may not be a Volvo but there is still a fair chance that your Perkins didn't start life as a Perkins.

Hello All,
I have the same problem with the timing belt tension-er failing due to a water pump leak. I need to replace the belt, tension-er and water pump. I have the cam and injector pinned but can not find where to place the pin for the fly wheel. Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks in advance,
Gerald