I'm gradually sealing the deck leaks on my Carter 33, I've already sorted the Chain Plates and Roof Light.

I suspect that I've water entering from the interface between the Mast Deck Collar and deck (keel stepped mast). I've a couple of questions that I'm hoping somebody with some experience of this installation maybe able to help with.

1) I trust this installation doesn't support the mast in anyway and its undoing, lifting and resealing to the deck will not effect the mast.
2) What would the best sealant be, Butyle tape or some sort of gunk?
3) The rubber boot looks to be in good order, any advice on its removal or refitting?
3) Are there any other pitfalls I should be aware of?

Thanks in advance.

a lot of the rain water will be sucking in through your mast blocks . If you work out a way of solving that , please let me know !!!

Yes I reckon it would be down the mast track too. I made sure there were drain holes at the base of the mast so water can just drain to the sump.

My boat Hanse 575 has the base of the mast in its own well with a pump in it. The mast is also wrapped with a plastic mesh and then wrapped with a vinyl cover from the roof to the floor. This allows water to also run down the outside of the mast and into the well without wetting inside. There is also a mast boot so next to no water comes down the outside anyway, but we do get a lot of water down the inside of the mast from the halyard exits in driving rain.

Howdie SydneyJohn,
You have a problem which I could not live with. I have modified my mast at no great expense so that leaks from the outside world to down below are impossible. I have all the advantages of both keel and deck stepped masts, and none of the disadvantages of either. I did not invent this modification, but noticed it on many yachts in Fremantle. To have a mast "sealed" with bits of stick, goop, a mast boot and other junk is archaic, but commonly practised by many. I could step and remove my keel stepped mast (12m heavy section) by myself years ago but require assistance now. (The job was done about 20yrs ago). I was on Cruisers and Sailing Forums with this idea last year and recieved so much negative feedback from trogludites and neurotics, who could not accept that there is any other way than the above "sticks and goop" method, that I am reluctant to enter in to general discussion on the subject, because it will stir up similar people. So, if I have stirred any interest in you, there must be another way of communicating.
Patrigo28

Patrigo, I understand your reluctance to share your knowledge again, but if you've been hanging around these forums then you have probably realised we are a different breed here.

Give it a go

Go for it Patrigo, we don't bite....:)
regards,
allan

yeah , say it say it !!!!! dont keep us in suspenders all night

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patrigo28 said..
Howdie SydneyJohn,
You have a problem which I could not live with. I have modified my mast at no great expense so that leaks from the outside world to down below are impossible. I have all the advantages of both keel and deck stepped masts, and none of the disadvantages of either. I did not invent this modification, but noticed it on many yachts in Fremantle. To have a mast "sealed" with bits of stick, goop, a mast boot and other junk is archaic, but commonly practised by many. I could step and remove my keel stepped mast (12m heavy section) by myself years ago but require assistance now. (The job was done about 20yrs ago). I was on Cruisers and Sailing Forums with this idea last year and recieved so much negative feedback from trogludites and neurotics, who could not accept that there is any other way than the above "sticks and goop" method, that I am reluctant to enter in to general discussion on the subject, because it will stir up similar people. So, if I have stirred any interest in you, there must be another way of communicating.
Patrigo28

I know excatly what you mean about Cruisers and Sailing Forums

My yacht isnt the biggest. ..or in anyway the best.

Mind u it clocks up more nautical miles than a lot lot of others

I like these forums.
Everyone seems share rather than judge.

Id love reading your way off doing it.

Deck leaks sux dog balls

Always open and respect to new ideas

Share! !!+

There are cave dwellers in all societies. Last year I mentioned my roller furled staysail with a wishbone (which works brilliantly) and was decried as a nut, because it is a whole bunch more fun to be on a foredeck in a cyclone battling a hank on. I have been on a foredeck in a cyclone with a hank on and it is an experience I will not repeat. I was young and foolish and following a "suggestion" from the skipper. Okay, all in the past!
This is the very basics of the idea, and I am leaving a lot of detail out for now. With the mast out of your vessel you chop it in two at 45deg fore and aft, about 150mm above where it exits the coach roof/deck/whatever, downhill towards the bow. Weld a rectangular 10 or 12 mm suitably sized plate (with a hole in each corner) to each face and then bolt them together. Your mast is now a one piece unit again a few mms longer than it was. A hole drilled above the upper plate through the front of the mast lets any mast water out to where it belongs. Fit a hinge on the aft face in line with the joiner plate interface. Unbolt the 4 corner bolts and at your leisure, spend an hour, or a day, or a week, (without a crane operator telling you how much he is costing you !) fitting the stump into your vessel to your complete satisfaction as regards alignment, so that it becomes a permanent part of down below, never needing to be removed. A piece of conduit and 2 elbows can carry the wiring from wetlands to drylands.
Align the mast, insert the suitably sized pin in the hinge, hoik it up and refit the 4 bolts.---A keel stepped mast which cannot leak, and is as easy to remove as a deck stepped in a tabernacle.

thats sounds like a good solution !

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patrigo28 said..
There are cave dwellers in all societies. Last year I mentioned my roller furled staysail with a wishbone (which works brilliantly) and was decried as a nut, because it is a whole bunch more fun to be on a foredeck in a cyclone battling a hank on. I have been on a foredeck in a cyclone with a hank on and it is an experience I will not repeat. I was young and foolish and following a "suggestion" from the skipper. Okay, all in the past!
This is the very basics of the idea, and I am leaving a lot of detail out for now. With the mast out of your vessel you chop it in two at 45deg fore and aft, about 150mm above where it exits the coach roof/deck/whatever, downhill towards the bow. Weld a rectangular 10 or 12 mm suitably sized plate (with a hole in each corner) to each face and then bolt them together. Your mast is now a one piece unit again a few mms longer than it was. A hole drilled above the upper plate through the front of the mast lets any mast water out to where it belongs. Fit a hinge on the aft face in line with the joiner plate interface. Unbolt the 4 corner bolts and at your leisure, spend an hour, or a day, or a week, (without a crane operator telling you how much he is costing you !) fitting the stump into your vessel to your complete satisfaction as regards alignment, so that it becomes a permanent part of down below, never needing to be removed. A piece of conduit and 2 elbows can carry the wiring from wetlands to drylands.
Align the mast, insert the suitably sized pin in the hinge, hoik it up and refit the 4 bolts.---A keel stepped mast which cannot leak, and is as easy to remove as a deck stepped in a tabernacle.

Can't fault that concept, works for me....
regards,
allan

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SydneyJohn said..
I'm gradually sealing the deck leaks on my Carter 33, I've already sorted the Chain Plates and Roof Light.

I suspect that I've water entering from the interface between the Mast Deck Collar and deck (keel stepped mast). I've a couple of questions that I'm hoping somebody with some experience of this installation maybe able to help with.

1) I trust this installation doesn't support the mast in anyway and its undoing, lifting and resealing to the deck will not effect the mast.
2) What would the best sealant be, Butyle tape or some sort of gunk?
3) The rubber boot looks to be in good order, any advice on its removal or refitting?
3) Are there any other pitfalls I should be aware of?

Thanks in advance.

I had success with Bondcrete for sealing many cabin leaks. Its kind of like adjustable goop. It avoided major deconstruction and reconstruction of some of my boats.

You seal the leak in several steps by pouring the Bondcrete through the leaky area in increasing concentrations. Start with it weak, so it runs like water. Then let it set. Then do that again and again. It runs through the leaky area and fills it more each time. Each time you do it make the mixture more concentrated. Eventually the Bondcrete wont run through any more and the leak is fixed.

There was an article about it in sailing mag somewhere which is where I got the idea. The flexibility or lack of it might be an issue and need checking.

The other trick that worked brilliantly was to find where the leak actually was. The idea is to pour soapy water on deck then use a leaf blower to increase the cabin pressure. Then look for little bubbles on deck in the soapy water. You need to seal the leaf blower into the companion way with gaffer tape and tarps, and seal up any other vents. I found leaks in my windows miles from where the drips appeared by doing this, poured Bondcrete in and fixed them.

A very noisy operation though.

@patrigo28 - Sounds like a fix and forget..... but a little extreme for my liking! I'm after something a little less invasive that will reduce the problem, not necessarily eliminate it. I'm on the boat a couple of times a week, thus the boat gets aired quite a bit so a little moisture is acceptable to me.

@Trek - Love the idea of increasing cabin pressure and looking for bubbles.... If only I had a leaf blower!! I'll do some research on "Bondcrete".

@all responders - Thanks for your comments so far. While I do have some water getting in down the inside of the mast from mast blocks etc, this drains onto the keel foot and into the bilge. I will check keel foot drain holes are clear today as some does emerge onto the floor. I'm still keen on keeping the original arrangement (deck plate and boot) any advice on disassembling with the mast in-situ would be appreciated.

Was looking for same answer the other day and then decided to do what i preach to my engineers here at work ..... think laterally.

So here is a thought, and am going to try it when i get home from this swing at sea.

remember, lateral thinking, was looking for flexible seal that can be pushed/prodded/encouraged into a gap and make a seal.

So why not look at using the wax seal that plumbers use to seal the dunny to the pipework. Flexible, it seals, is cheap and should do the job.

then just place the cosmetic mast/deck boot around and no one would know except you dont have water inside.

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SydneyJohn said..
@patrigo28 - Sounds like a fix and forget..... but a little extreme for my liking! I'm after something a little less invasive that will reduce the problem, not necessarily eliminate it. I'm on the boat a couple of times a week, thus the boat gets aired quite a bit so a little moisture is acceptable to me.

@Trek - Love the idea of increasing cabin pressure and looking for bubbles.... If only I had a leaf blower!! I'll do some research on "Bondcrete".

@all responders - Thanks for your comments so far. While I do have some water getting in down the inside of the mast from mast blocks etc, this drains onto the keel foot and into the bilge. I will check keel foot drain holes are clear today as some does emerge onto the floor. I'm still keen on keeping the original arrangement (deck plate and boot) any advice on disassembling with the mast in-situ would be appreciated.

Bondcrete is a PVC glue that's normally added to concrete. It's an excellent waterproof wood glue as well and I have used it extensively for the last 50 years or so. It's great for yacht interiors , outdoor furniture or general house stuff etc. It's interesting that the 1 litre bottle even has it listed as a wood glue now. The 4 litre tins up still call it a concrete glue.

That's an interesting solution to a problem i seem to have a constant battle with (leaky mast / deck interface).
I do wonder if the cutting and bolting idea would have any impact on the overall structural strength of the mast? Surely the slice would be a weak point? It would certainly stop the leaks though.

I would have thought that two plates bigger than the mast section with a bolt in each corner would be
stronger than the mast, and as a weld is usually stronger than the material being welded I don't see
that the mast would be weaker at that spot.

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MatM14 said..
That's an interesting solution to a problem i seem to have a constant battle with (leaky mast / deck interface).
I do wonder if the cutting and bolting idea would have any impact on the overall structural strength of the mast? Surely the slice would be a weak point? It would certainly stop the leaks though.

Check out the yachts that drop their masts regularly to pass under the Fremantle bridge. They convert their keel stepped masts this way.

yes it really just a great way to convert to a deck stepped setup .

If i had spectra rigging , i would like two of those hinges , one just above deck level hinged at the back and the second one half way up hinged at the front . folding mast !!! put her on a big trailer and take her home to work in the back yard !!!

As Ramona has stated, they do it in Fremantle, and that is where I got the idea from. Owners want a vessel that is capable of handling the Indian Ocean but also to be able to sail upriver to Perth for various regattas and watery functions during the year. Many boats have their chainplates modified so they are at the same level as the hinge pin to make it even easier to lower the stick.
I am amazed at some revelations above,----- leaf blowers, plastic sheets around the mast, sumps and pumps, etc. Does anybody invest in light weather wetgear for down below I wonder? Today I sat in my diamond pattern, studded velvet seat looking at my perfectly aligned, flotex covered, totally dry, permanently fitted part of my mast and was trying to understand how the sailing world can put up with anything less. Down below, at times, can be a haven from hell. I couldn't handle a haven with water running in to it.----but whatever turns you on!

I can't fault the logic and method. The more I consider and imagine it....the more I wonder why more yachts aren't made that way to begin with . Its just too easy. ..and better than getting wet

Thxs for sharing

I had a similar problem a few years ago, always thought the water was coming down the inside of the mast until I wrapped newspaper around it and found it soaking wet after rain. Had a closer look at the mast boot topping, absolutely stuffed. Did some research on the forums, lots of ideas but ended up using roofers flashing tape. Comes in different widths, wrapped closed cell foam around the mast then the flashing tape, finished the top off with self amalgamating tape. Been dry ever since except for small amounts down the inside of the mast which depends on the direction the rain comes from.

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retired said..
I had a similar problem a few years ago, always thought the water was coming down the inside of the mast until I wrapped newspaper around it and found it soaking wet after rain. Had a closer look at the mast boot topping, absolutely stuffed. Did some research on the forums, lots of ideas but ended up using roofers flashing tape. Comes in different widths, wrapped closed cell foam around the mast then the flashing tape, finished the top off with self amalgamating tape. Been dry ever since except for small amounts down the inside of the mast which depends on the direction the rain comes from.

Yes....flashing tape. Very strong, very durable. A bugger to get off after a year or two though.

While it may not be fully relevant to mast leaks I've used butyl tape successfully for deck fittings. It stays pliable and with the application of a white spirit (thinners, acetone or even petrol) it comes away fairly easily and can be cleaned up if the fitting needs to be removed it the future.

Post pictures of your modified mast.

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ChopesBro said..
I can't fault the logic and method. The more I consider and imagine it....the more I wonder why more yachts aren't made that way to begin with . Its just too easy. ..and better than getting wet

Thxs for sharing

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patrigo28 said..
As Ramona has stated, they do it in Fremantle, and that is where I got the idea from. Owners want a vessel that is capable of handling the Indian Ocean but also to be able to sail upriver to Perth for various regattas and watery functions during the year. Many boats have their chainplates modified so they are at the same level as the hinge pin to make it even easier to lower the stick.
I am amazed at some revelations above,----- leaf blowers, plastic sheets around the mast, sumps and pumps, etc. Does anybody invest in light weather wetgear for down below I wonder? Today I sat in my diamond pattern, studded velvet seat looking at my perfectly aligned, flotex covered, totally dry, permanently fitted part of my mast and was trying to understand how the sailing world can put up with anything less. Down below, at times, can be a haven from hell. I couldn't handle a haven with water running in to it.----but whatever turns you on!

Having lived and sailed out of Freo for 6 years I can share a fair bit more info on how this is done, and it's a tad more complex than just adding a hinge.

Firstly you only need to put chain plate extensions in if you have an inline spreader rig, swept is not needed.
You also need a highfeild lever on the forestay or a way of loosening the forestay and or backstay to get enough slack to remove the forestay.
Can be hard if you have a deck mounted furler and also you have to be careful the furler doesn't get damaged in the process, have supplied many spare parts for furlers that have.
You will also need a boom that is easy to remove.

Then there is the lowering setup.
Most popular but most risky is the forward pole option, like a trailer sailer might have, usually done with both kite poles attached at the chainplates and joined fwd to a plate that has a point to attach a purchase system led back to a cockpit winch for lowering/raising the mast.
The issue with this system is that the mast is totally unsupported across the boat and I have seen masts bent, hinges bent/broken, stays bent etc.

The better system is to have a 'skate' made that runs up the back of the mast, usually made with 4 skateboard wheels, 2 either side of the track.
You will need to get two plates made with spinnaker pole rings on the mounted back either side of the cockpit for the bottom end of the kite poles to attach to, top ends attach to the skate.
A 6:1 purchase system is attached to the skate and the mast base and once the forestay is disconnected you simply ease out on the purchase system.
Works a treat and keeps the mast supported the whole way down.
Here is a version of the skate

I like the BondCrete idea. I have a half tub left over from a reno/repaint I just did on a unit. Will definitely try it with the deck leaks I haven't been able to fix.

It looks like the leaky masts problem has surfaced again, so I will add a bit more. Yes Rumblefish, I agree with your post but I did mine to put an unleakable mast in my yacht, which I now have. I am not interested in raising or lowering it, rivers do not interest me.I will try and post some photos, in the next couple of days. Cutting and welding a mast may sound a bit over the top to some, but if you got it done during the next antifoul job, your leaking mast is gone forever, and you can spruce up the down below section to be a permanent piece of furniture. Your boat is dry.