Hi Sailors

I am sure this type of question is one of those that has been done to death, but I am a first time poster and not that experienced with sailing, so please bear with me...

Am looking at buying my first keeler yacht with the idea being to take the family, (wife and three daughters 12, 10 & 7) coastal cruising along the Queensland coast as I am now based in Rocky with work. I have a limited budget of around 40k but could spend another 10-15 on it over 12 months. Now I am not planning any passages but my way of thinking is to get a design that is able to just in case you do hit any nasty weather that the family is safe.

In my quest so far I have identified a few that on the surface seems to fit the bill from design and dollar point and was hoping I could ask you more experienced yachtsmen to steer me in the right direction.

S&S 34
Cavalier 32
Swanson 32
East Coast 31
Cole Bounty 35
Van de Stadt 34

All similiar priced but not sure if I should eliminate any particular design or medium (the VDS 34 is steel) One of the criteria I would like is for it to be able to be saved singled handed as my wife and kids are not based in Rocky so when I have a day off here and there I would like to take for a short sail when possible.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated

PS I have been reading the forum for about a month and really enjoy it and has been a wealth of knowledge.

Many thanks

Novaoz

Those are all good designs which will fit your bill. Van De Stadt 34 will be the roomiest and will handle almost any weather but steel yachts need constant maintenance of paint work to stall any rust.

Once rust sets in it can be a nightmare.

I used to own this yacht that I gave to the yard because it became too big a job for me to fix and I had to stop the rent drain from my pocket after having it sit in the yard for 9 years.

http://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/maryborough/sail-boats/vandestadt-34-foot/1065301366

It has had the bow section rebuilt and other rust spots repaired but you would have to constantly monitor for rust.

I think one of these yachts in steel as a cruising yacht should have a 3 cylinder diesel at 25 to 30 hp.

Apart from all that the VDS 34 are a great yacht.

Here are a few others for comparison.

www.boatpoint.com.au/boats-for-sale/dealer/used/OAG-AD-808745/1988-VAN-DE-STADT-34-SLOOP?cr=7&psq=%28%28%28%28%28BoatType%3DSail%26Make%3D%5BVAN%20DE%20STADT%5D%29%26HullType%3DMono%29%26LengthInFeet%3Drange%5B29..35%5D%29%26%28%28%28SiloType%3D%5BDemo%20and%20near%20new%20boats%5D%7CSiloType%3D%5BDealer%20new%20boats%5D%29%7CSiloType%3D%5BDealer%20used%20boats%5D%29%7CSiloType%3D%5BPrivate%20used%20boats%5D%29%29%26Service%3D%5BBoatsales%5D%29&pso=0&pss=Premium


This one in Tassie is a superb example but has been for sale for quite some time.

www.boatpoint.com.au/boats-for-sale/private/used/SSE-AD-2546814/2000-Van-De-Stadt-34-SLOOP?cr=3&psq=%28%28%28%28%28BoatType%3DSail%26Make%3D%5BVAN%20DE%20STADT%5D%29%26HullType%3DMono%29%26LengthInFeet%3Drange%5B29..35%5D%29%26%28%28%28SiloType%3D%5BDemo%20and%20near%20new%20boats%5D%7CSiloType%3D%5BDealer%20new%20boats%5D%29%7CSiloType%3D%5BDealer%20used%20boats%5D%29%7CSiloType%3D%5BPrivate%20used%20boats%5D%29%29%26Service%3D%5BBoatsales%5D%29&pso=0&pss=Premium


This one appears to be in aluminium which is a great material for a yacht to be built from. The listing says it is 9.5 tonne displacement but I can't believe that otherwise she would be sitting a lot lower in the water. A lot of yacht for $50,000.

www.boatpoint.com.au/boats-for-sale/private/used/SSE-AD-2546814/2000-Van-De-Stadt-34-SLOOP?cr=3&psq=%28%28%28%28%28BoatType%3DSail%26Make%3D%5BVAN%20DE%20STADT%5D%29%26HullType%3DMono%29%26LengthInFeet%3Drange%5B29..35%5D%29%26%28%28%28SiloType%3D%5BDemo%20and%20near%20new%20boats%5D%7CSiloType%3D%5BDealer%20new%20boats%5D%29%7CSiloType%3D%5BDealer%20used%20boats%5D%29%7CSiloType%3D%5BPrivate%20used%20boats%5D%29%29%26Service%3D%5BBoatsales%5D%29&pso=0&pss=Premium


This one has been for sale for a while too. The fit out is a bit basic but otherwise she looks fairly good. Being glass over timber, a survey by a very good shipwright is highly recommended. I think you could screw a deal in the mid $20k range for this one. He has already bought another yacht.


www.boatpoint.com.au/boats-for-sale/private/used/SSE-AD-2823107/1986-Van-De-Stadt-34?cr=5&psq=%28%28%28%28%28BoatType%3DSail%26Make%3D%5BVAN%20DE%20STADT%5D%29%26HullType%3DMono%29%26LengthInFeet%3Drange%5B29..35%5D%29%26%28%28%28SiloType%3D%5BDemo%20and%20near%20new%20boats%5D%7CSiloType%3D%5BDealer%20new%20boats%5D%29%7CSiloType%3D%5BDealer%20used%20boats%5D%29%7CSiloType%3D%5BPrivate%20used%20boats%5D%29%29%26Service%3D%5BBoatsales%5D%29&pso=0&pss=Premium

Welcome to the forum Novaoz.

i am in no way an expert in these matters and there are others on here with a much boarder depth of knowledge than I but here's my 2 cents worth.

of those yachts that you have mentioned the S&S, Cavalier and Swanson would probably be my pick. Probably because these are the ones I have been more familiar with. Being slightly larger the S&S 34 would give you a bit more room which would be welcome if you are out with the family.

They are all good solid boats, which is just what you need for your purpose. A Cavalier took Kay Cottee around the world on her single handed voyage so they can withstand the heavy stuff provided they are sailed competently. That would be the case for all three of these options.

Really it will come down to a question of budget and what is available on the market, how long are you prepared to wait for the right boat to come along and how much time / resources you have available to do any work on the boat post purchase (it will need work - they all do). Some things to look out for (other will add more I am sure): when was the standing rigging last replaced, what is the condition of the engine (re powering is a costly and significant undertaking), any osmosis issues in the hull, is she water tight or is standing in the cabin in a big sea like standing in the rain?

Don't rush into a purchase, take your time. If you buy a yacht that later turns out is going to need extensive work to make her seaworthy then your dream will turn into a nightmare very quickly and the yacht will become a burden rather than a pleasure.

Many thanks Cisco & MatM14

Yes I do love the idea of the VDS 34 steel but am scared at the same time the paint is hiding cancer in the hull, I know you can't just go and hit a guys yacht over with a hammer so is there any tricks to detect how much rust is in it?

The S&S I have been eying is here
http://yachthub.com/list/yachts-for-sale/used/sail-monohulls/sparkman-stephens-34-sloop-s-s-34/121254

Seems to be an almost cult following for the S&S

I spent a year or so with a Cav 32, easy, simple nice enough yacht to sail but funnily felt it didn't have much 'soul' for want of a better word, never really felt connected with it and actually found it a bit boring not really sure why, maybe as it was a stock standard production yacht with no surprises. Sold it on for 70,000, which was top dollar for a Cav 32, it was very well maintained with all the right gear, not sure what condition one would be in if you got it for 40,000 or less.
VanDeStat34, good solid steel boat, usually sail pretty well, usually owner built so can be a bit backyard, not as well finished as a production boat, yeah rust but then yeah osmosis/delamination if you go core or fibreglass, rust you can grind, cut out etc, osmosis, cut out, dry etc etc. similar problems just in different media. You can usually tell if a yachts got or been prone to rust, if everything looks recently touched up maybe be wary, with osmosis get them tested for moisture in the hull. look for bubbles, blisters, dimples in the hull.
The S&S34 have a great reputation as a tried and tested round the world yacht, Jesse Martin, Jessica Watson...not quite as roomy as a VDS34.
Not sure about the rest.

The S&S 34s are legendary. That particular one is a very early Australian built one. Not a lot of detail shown in the pics. I think you could do better in an S&S 34.

Before you go buying one have a word with MorningBird. He is considering selling his beautiful example. It is one of the last built and everything on it is right up to scratch.

You will have to spend a bit more than your stated budget though. Buy a yacht too cheap and you will end up doing that anyway.

I would buy morning bird If it is for sale. It's well sorted and I doubt if you will get any nasty surprises.
The only problem with an s and s 34 in the tropics is they are hot inside for a family, no opening portholes
Good luck

Hey Cisco

Your old boat is one I was going to have a look at but was worried about its history, would it be possible to give you a call about it?

Thanks for everyones replies these forums are so fantastic to gather the knowledge you need.

I am keen to see what morning bird is likely to sell for... just love the almost legendary status of them.

Gday,Novaoz,
I raced a Bounty out of Melb. For a few years and with kids in mind mention the following pluses.
Very dry boat ,high freeboard.
Sit in deep cockpit with lots of room ,although I had a tiller not wheel.
Almost flat topsides makes it easy to move around on ( lay around on).
Very roomy below with high headroom
Typical solid Cole design. We raced in some pretty heavy weather over the years and had no issues
Access to engine good.
Main downside was it was a long way to climb from water without stern ladder.
Fitout below critical .

If I were to look for a boat to cruise with family I would also look for a boat with an unobtrusive mainsheet track . Eg. On coachroof good place .

Ta Bananabender

Yes I did like the racy look of the bounty there is a project boat of one up north I will have a look at as well.

Seem I am pretty bored here on weekends when I don't fly back home I thought I would live on the yacht and do work as we go, give me things to do.

I did notice it is hard to find any yachts with a sugar scoop stern in that price range, but would imagine it would be possible to change the VDS in steel's stern to enable easier boarding for the kids.

There is a nice one for sale in Manly Bris. For $39 neg. Listed in yachthub site but I cannot upload for some reason .

For a family, I'd be looking for a boat with a double birth under the cockpit or in the stern , maybe something like a Mottle 33?. Probably be allot more comfortable than some of the other boats in the 34 ft range. If the young crew are comfortable then everybody's happy!

Kay Cottee's boat was a 38. The steel yacht is worth about $80 a ton. The SS34's are nice but not necessarily family friendly, the layouts are mainly for male crews. My pick is the Cole 35 but remember it is a big boat. There are a few about now at great prices. The Cole 31's are good husband and wife boats. Living in Nth Queensland ventilation is going to be a priority. 3 daughters are going to be hard to manage on a small vessel. Find one with good bathroom/heads and some privacy. And remember those daughters will soon be bringing scruffy, low life boyfriends along!

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novaoz said..
This one:

http://yachthub.com/list/yachts-for-sale/used/sail-monohulls/bounty-35-sloop/160456

It does look good for the money

Yes but that being said its a big boat to handle by one. I had a 27 footer when I had three daughters your age and it was small enough for them to be able to get involved in the sailing. As others said take your time choosing.

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Ramona said..
Kay Cottee's boat was a 38.

FWIW it was 37' built by my Dad. She did put some additional glassing and sealed bulkheads forward of the keel as she was paranoid (justly) of hitting a whale or submerged container.

www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CB8QFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.anmm.gov.au%2F~%2Fmedia%2FFiles%2FWhats%2520on%2FBlackmores_First_Lady.pdf&ei=MZvEVJOoFuPTmgXM-IDQCg&usg=AFQjCNGC6TK4nWuLk48DkKYOsLXDne6k3g&sig2=mVqdsNXhf8-mKmeXKXEjLQ&bvm=bv.84349003,d.dGY&cad=rja


As for the OP, not biased but I'd go a Cav32. We had great times on board the 32 with 2 adults and 4 kids. Sometimes for weeks.

good idea from someone back there ......... have a look at the mottle 33 . nice turn of speed as well as roomy

Hi Novaoz
A lot was mention about above water preferences.
When I was choosing my boat, I was also considering underwater shape.
This is my ex Swanson 32, from the pics you can guess, all day on course withou autopilot.
Easilly reach hull speed just with full Genoa, didn't use main often.
Exellent boat, mine is short cabin, the most have long cabin / past mast / .
That model is perfect, The only thing, dislike limited eccess to the engine.

Consider mooring cost, Rosslyn Bay, private marina & insurance & maintenance 10k annually .
My current boat is in CCYC Roslyn Bay, good knowledge of local area.
When you get your boat, can show obstacles and beauty of local saling grounds.

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SandS said..

good idea from someone back there ......... have a look at the mottle 33 . nice turn of speed as well as roomy

Haven't seen one in the flesh but ... I don't know... just not a fan of centre cockpit

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Charriot said..
Hi Novaoz
A lot was mention about above water preferences.
When I was choosing my boat, I was also considering underwater shape.
This is my ex Swanson 32, from the pics you can guess, all day on course withou autopilot.
Easilly reach hull speed just with full Genoa, didn't use main often.
Exellent boat, mine is short cabin, the most have long cabin / past mast / .
That model is perfect, The only thing, dislike limited eccess to the engine.

Consider mooring cost, Rosslyn Bay, private marina & insurance & maintenance 10k annually .
My current boat is in CCYC Roslyn Bay, good knowledge of local area.
When you get your boat, can show obstacles and beauty of local saling grounds.

Yes at the moment there is a couple of nice Swansons in the price range and look roomy enough

I was indeed looking at berthing it (maybe after whatever work is needed) at Rosslyn Bay, would be a pain living in the Fitzroy off a swing mooring :)
Would really appreciate you showing me around when the time comes, Cheers

Novaoz, send me a message with your mobile and I can call you if you want to talk S&S34s. The comments above are pretty accurate but I might be able provide a complete picture of them.

Belive one of seabreeze member living on Cavalier in Rosslyn Bay.

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novaoz said..
Ta Bananabender

Yes I did like the racy look of the bounty there is a project boat of one up north I will have a look at as well.

Seem I am pretty bored here on weekends when I don't fly back home I thought I would live on the yacht and do work as we go, give me things to do.

I did notice it is hard to find any yachts with a sugar scoop stern in that price range, but would imagine it would be possible to change the VDS in steel's stern to enable easier boarding for the kids.

I know of a VDS that the guy added a sugar scoop to the stern, he used it for some storage so had a few initial teething problems with sealing and drainage, worked fine once he had it sealed correctly.

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Ramona said..
Kay Cottee's boat was a 38. The steel yacht is worth about $80 a ton. The SS34's are nice but not necessarily family friendly, the layouts are mainly for male crews. My pick is the Cole 35 but remember it is a big boat. There are a few about now at great prices. The Cole 31's are good husband and wife boats. Living in Nth Queensland ventilation is going to be a priority. 3 daughters are going to be hard to manage on a small vessel. Find one with good bathroom/heads and some privacy. And remember those daughters will soon be bringing scruffy, low life boyfriends along!

You are so good at pointing out the realities of sea board life Ramona.

I should point out that I am a fan of Swanson 32s as well. I spent an hour or so trying to get my mates boat off a mud bank just before Christmas. His is a longer cabin version [not the normal long cabin though] and his also has a sugar scoop added which actually really suits the boat. While the Swanson is quite a bit beamier than my yacht the interior is a bit cramped for 3 girls and 2 adults.



I set the anchor out in deep water and was waiting for the owner to turn up and the tide to lift the Swanson off the weed bed. The Rescue association turned up and asked would I like a gentle tow! I was quite shocked but afterwards when I was talking to the skipper he said it was against their policy but he recognized my tender and was returning a favour from years ago.

Many thanks to all the replies, will get and have a look at all of the eventually, if anyone hears of boats that come up they think would be suitable, I would really appreciate you letting me know.

Let the hunt begin... but I am impatient :)

"I don't know... just not a fan of centre cockpit"

I have an Adams 31 CC, Novaoz, which is basically the same as a mottle 33 but smaller. My kids are grown up and flown the coop but I reckon if I had three kids I'd want an aft cabin - nice place for one of you to escape to if it all gets too much, or for two of you to...

Although I suppose a boat with a nice v-berth with a door could do the same trick (if you don't mind the up and down motion of a v-berth). I'd go have a look at one before you discount it anyway.

Yes your right DrRog

I shouldn't discount anything at this stage, I will have a closer look at some CC, I know why wife would prefer a CC model

Hi novaoz, (does that mean you are from down Newy way)??
As a first time buyer, there are plenty of questions besides, "which boat"
Do you know where you will keep it, ie. marina v. mooring, probably best to ask around some insurance brokers, as to wether you can get insurance on a moored boat in your preferred area.
If you are going to use a marina, what is the cut-off point for increased charges, 10 meters??, if so maybe look for a boat that is under that size, you could end up paying a lot more money for no real gain in size.
USE A SURVEYOR, for any boat that you are really thinking about seriously, if you are just kicking tyres, then an experienced friend will be the way to go first up.
You say that you are not that experienced in sailing, perhaps join a local club and do some "beercan" races, or help out with a few deliveries, just to get the feel for the lifestyle, before putting down big bucks, its a buyers market, if you dont like what you've ended up with, you may have a hard time selling it, while it will still be costing you money.
Maybe you could charter a boat for a week, with your family, see if they enjoy it, if not, well you might have saved yourself $40k... and a marriage...

Good luck with your search, there is plenty available in your paramaters.