That's a crazy video Jules - the first bit is "Why would anyone film that?"
I remember reading a Cruising Helmsman as a kid and an article by Jeff Mellefont was called "Get the anchor out". In it he talked about the need to be able to get a large and powerful kedge out to safety when aground. I am glad I read that because that has saved my bacon a few times. In a gale in Wollongong harbour, in another gale in the Gold Coast channels, and a few other times.
I was watching the video through my fingers - wondering why anyone would be so passive and film this. For me, I have found the power of a good kedge set to windward and then led by messengers to the sheet winches to be a really powerful, safe and sedate way to get yourself out of a situation. It also gives you something to do. This situation emphasises the safety benefit of a nice large and powerful dinghy, the ability to launch in waves and real competence in stressful situations and knowledge of safety issues with loads etc.
So if anyone is in this situation my advice is
- ensure you have a large Fortress or guardian anchor with 100mm of nylon (and a second set of chain if in coral although chain is hard to move)
- get the kedge out - tricky here because there is coral so rope might get cut. Maybe get TWO anchors out as soon as she touches - get a compass course or use the wind to work out where to steer in the dark. Take the kedge out with all of its rode - drop it and then bring it back with the rode to the boat. That has worked well for me more than once when dealing with chain - rope only is okay with bitter end on boat. - lead the kedge lines through a pulley at the bow and then tie messengers (using sheet rope) on to lead the anchor line to the sheet winches. Sheet winches are the strongest winches on the boat. Then start winding.
- Have the two of you working - one winching and the other easing the old messenger off and slipping it up - the knot we used was a clove hitch with extra turns (one back turn - I forget the knot's name). We pulled about 4 metres before we would slip messengers up and start winding on the other side - it gets quite quick on the end. (Like the old sailing ships used to do to lift their anchors)
We winched our boat about 70 metres across sand using this technique when we got pushed up a sandbank in a gale whiteout. All my own fault - I should not have been out in that weather - but next time - if I get caught in a whiteout in a sandy channel I am running her pretty fast into the WINDWARD bank - much easier to get her off than the leeward bank.
BUt why would you film this? I know it is their bread and butter but don't be passive - get the anchor out and start getting yourself off - your anchor lines can pull much harder than any powerboat smaller than a tug.
And don't rely on a phone anchor alarm, set an anchor watch if the weather gets up and have a pre set course to safety.
cheers
Phil
Select to expand quoteKankama said..
That's a crazy video Jules - the first bit is "Why would anyone film that?"
I remember reading a Cruising Helmsman as a kid and an article by Jeff Mellefont was called "Get the anchor out". In it he talked about the need to be able to get a large and powerful kedge out to safety when aground. I am glad I read that because that has saved my bacon a few times. In a gale in Wollongong harbour, in another gale in the Gold Coast channels, and a few other times.
I was watching the video through my fingers - wondering why anyone would be so passive and film this. For me, I have found the power of a good kedge set to windward and then led by messengers to the sheet winches to be a really powerful, safe and sedate way to get yourself out of a situation. It also gives you something to do. This situation emphasises the safety benefit of a nice large and powerful dinghy, the ability to launch in waves and real competence in stressful situations and knowledge of safety issues with loads etc.
So if anyone is in this situation my advice is
- ensure you have a large Fortress or guardian anchor with 100mm of nylon (and a second set of chain if in coral although chain is hard to move)
- get the kedge out - tricky here because there is coral so rope might get cut. Maybe get TWO anchors out as soon as she touches - get a compass course or use the wind to work out where to steer in the dark. Take the kedge out with all of its rode - drop it and then bring it back with the rode to the boat. That has worked well for me more than once when dealing with chain - rope only is okay with bitter end on boat. - lead the kedge lines through a pulley at the bow and then tie messengers (using sheet rope) on to lead the anchor line to the sheet winches. Sheet winches are the strongest winches on the boat. Then start winding.
- Have the two of you working - one winching and the other easing the old messenger off and slipping it up - the knot we used was a clove hitch with extra turns (one back turn - I forget the knot's name). We pulled about 4 metres before we would slip messengers up and start winding on the other side - it gets quite quick on the end. (Like the old sailing ships used to do to lift their anchors)
We winched our boat about 70 metres across sand using this technique when we got pushed up a sandbank in a gale whiteout. All my own fault - I should not have been out in that weather - but next time - if I get caught in a whiteout in a sandy channel I am running her pretty fast into the WINDWARD bank - much easier to get her off than the leeward bank.
BUt why would you film this? I know it is their bread and butter but don't be passive - get the anchor out and start getting yourself off - your anchor lines can pull much harder than any powerboat smaller than a tug.
And don't rely on a phone anchor alarm, set an anchor watch if the weather gets up and have a pre set course to safety.
cheers
Phil
I sail a sail boat. not a motor sailer hence no motor, my kedge anchor is ready for instant action, it is up there as the most important piece of gear on the boat , though I doubt it would have pulled the boat off the reef it would have slowed the dragging higher up the reef.
more importantly there is no way in hell I would have anchored 3 seconds from a lethal Lee shore , engine or no engine.
the chain should have at least 30m of nylon rope attached one to absorb the shock of a runaway chain.
two , to be able to tie a fender if you have to abandon the anchor.
I never go to bed without putting a third reef in the main ready for instant hoist, very easy to pull out in the morning, as we all know if an engine is going to fail it is going to be the very moment you really need it, and of course it's at the most critical time a rope goes round the prop.
a fully reefed mainsail is very reliable it has saved my boat.
I feel for this young couple experience comes with age (not always) a nightmare situation.
Engines give a false feeling of security and there are unfortunately many examples of poor seamanship because of it and lives lost.
filming it may get them a new boat .
Lots of places for improvement, but don't want to be an armchair expert.
One point for improvement on my boat I gained out of it, if I remove my snubber and start retrieving my anchor in heavy seas, then the chain comes off my Gypsy and freely runs out at speed how would I stop it?
It seems I may need a chain guilotine/trap. Or is a better way an override guard on the windlass?
Not so long ago the young lady jammed her hand in the winch/chain and was pretty lucky to get away with a nasty laceration, she possibly didn't want to go down that path again which may have lead to problems at the winch that enabled an uncontrolled chain payout.
Select to expand quoteJolene said..
Not so long ago the young lady jammed her hand in the winch/chain and was pretty lucky to get away with a nasty laceration, she possibly didn't want to go down that path again which may have lead to problems at the winch that enabled an uncontrolled chain payout.
I have a lewmar chain stopper on the boat, it needs to be actively held out of the way to allow the chain to pay out. It would prevent a runaway chain from getting any speed up and out of control without any action taken by the crew, ie you need to intervene to allow it to pay out chain.
TBH I have found it a bit inconvenient when paying out chain but in hindsight that could be a good thing.
I having been thinking about updating it to a current model with a lever
If she had a previous injury and was hesitant why wasn't she on the helm and the bloke at the front?
Chains stoppers aren't cheap are they, 8mm price below
Select to expand quoteEastCoastSail said..
If she had a previous injury and was hesitant why wasn't she on the helm and the bloke at the front?
Chains stoppers aren't cheap are they, 8mm price below
Agree with this ECS. When I used to do flot holidays with my g/f in Greece years ago I would do the chain locker and she would steer/throttle. Often this would be stern-to a stone harbour wall.
There was no difference between us in our ability to control a throttle but if one of us was going to have to get medieval with the chain locker I wanted it to be me.
Select to expand quoteEastCoastSail said..
If she had a previous injury and was hesitant why wasn't she on the helm and the bloke at the front?
Chains stoppers aren't cheap are they, 8mm price below
If you can imagine the shock load if you use a chain stopper to actually stop a rapidly paying out chain, you will understand why they are expensive. Not only does the stopper need to be really heavy duty, but the bit of the boat it is fastened to also needs to be very strong.
Select to expand quoteYara said..EastCoastSail said..
If she had a previous injury and was hesitant why wasn't she on the helm and the bloke at the front?
Chains stoppers aren't cheap are they, 8mm price below
If you can imagine the shock load if you use a chain stopper to actually stop a rapidly paying out chain, you will understand why they are expensive. Not only does the stopper need to be really heavy duty, but the bit of the boat it is fastened to also needs to be very strong.
Yeah, I have one on my boat that is built into the headstem. I found the chain pawl part in the nav desk draw and it had been turned inside out.
Just another 'sail the world' youtube channel with no insurance.
Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
There is a model of disasters called the "Swiss Cheese" model. It basically states that bad things happen when lots of potential for error line up so that you get no backup. I don't watch this channel but I did watch the video but newbies to sailing don't seem to realise the potential for problems.
In this video - they anchored in a reef with an inaccurate forecast
- when the wind came up they did not have a pre-plotted course to leave or set an anchor watch
- they used a phone app to check for dragging anchor
- when the boat hit they were not moving before th boat swung
- they did not fix the problem with the anchor winch they already knew about - so the chain could drop out of the winch
- didn't get the kedge out
- spent time filming instead of doing seamanlike stuff.
The seeds of this were planted when they decided to use a phone app, or not do anchor watches, or properly fix the chain gypsy. Then all the bad choices lined up and they lost the boat.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swiss_cheese_model
One thing La Vagabonde did fairly early on was switch to her driving and him being the muscle when docking and manoeuvring etc.
I try to follow that model..although 'muscle' is a stretch in my case. 
You do have to wonder about some peoples thought process when it comes to anchoring. Last outing a big cat anchored within talking distance of me in 20 knots of breeze so pretty close, they kind of appeared from now where. I went on deck and politely expressed concern about the proximity and his reply was don't worry we "only" put out 20mtrs, we "shouldn't" swing into you.
Only 20mtr of chain didn't inspire confidence for a start, I told him I had over 30 out and as soon as the tide changes after dark I would most likely swing into him. Thankfully he took it onboard and moved his boat, if he didn't I was going to move mine, I wasn't keen on trying to unwrap chains in a tight tidal channel with a big cat in the middle of the night.
We were island hopping down from Airlie as owner wanted a nice easy delivery, so we had lots of intermixed pickleforks and monos to contend with every night. The only muppets were a pair of big stink boats in one anchorage. One anchorage defied all normal rules of swing to current and wind, woke up at 3am to find the boat run over the anchor and pinned sideways from a conflicting wind/local bay tidal pattern.
What was tellng, and quite refreshing, was to see everyone taking the time and effort in positioning before setting anchors. End result was a trouble free and enjoyable park up every night. It's great to see proper seamanship on display.
Select to expand quoteshaggybaxter said..
We were island hopping down from Airlie as owner wanted a nice easy delivery, so we had lots of intermixed pickleforks and monos to contend with every night. The only muppets were a pair of big stink boats in one anchorage. One anchorage defied all normal rules of swing to current and wind, woke up at 3am to find the boat run over the anchor and pinned sideways from a conflicting wind/local bay tidal pattern.
What was tellng, and quite refreshing, was to see everyone taking the time and effort in positioning before setting anchors. End result was a trouble free and enjoyable park up every night. It's great to see proper seamanship on display.
What woke you? The anchor alarm? And what do you mean run over the anchor? Presumably it reset?
Was this the North Shore 38 you mentioned a few days back? If so what anchor was it using?
Select to expand quotejulesmoto said..shaggybaxter said..
We were island hopping down from Airlie as owner wanted a nice easy delivery, so we had lots of intermixed pickleforks and monos to contend with every night. The only muppets were a pair of big stink boats in one anchorage. One anchorage defied all normal rules of swing to current and wind, woke up at 3am to find the boat run over the anchor and pinned sideways from a conflicting wind/local bay tidal pattern.
What was tellng, and quite refreshing, was to see everyone taking the time and effort in positioning before setting anchors. End result was a trouble free and enjoyable park up every night. It's great to see proper seamanship on display.
What woke you? The anchor alarm? And what do you mean run over the anchor? Presumably it reset?
Was this the North Shore 38 you mentioned a few days back? If so what anchor was it using?
The chain rubbing against the hull. The boat drifted over the top of the anchor till it reached the radius of the chain, no alarm as the boat was within it's swing circle. A weird wind/current/tide pinned it there, the boat wouldn't swing about to hang naturally off the pick,.
A look around showed all the boats at crazy angles, never had that happen before. The boat was a Oceanis 45, anchor was a nuts oversized Racnor.
Select to expand quoteshaggybaxter said..julesmoto said..shaggybaxter said..
We were island hopping down from Airlie as owner wanted a nice easy delivery, so we had lots of intermixed pickleforks and monos to contend with every night. The only muppets were a pair of big stink boats in one anchorage. One anchorage defied all normal rules of swing to current and wind, woke up at 3am to find the boat run over the anchor and pinned sideways from a conflicting wind/local bay tidal pattern.
What was tellng, and quite refreshing, was to see everyone taking the time and effort in positioning before setting anchors. End result was a trouble free and enjoyable park up every night. It's great to see proper seamanship on display.
What woke you? The anchor alarm? And what do you mean run over the anchor? Presumably it reset?
Was this the North Shore 38 you mentioned a few days back? If so what anchor was it using?
The chain rubbing against the hull. The boat drifted over the top of the anchor till it reached the radius of the chain, no alarm as the boat was within it's swing circle. A weird wind/current/tide pinned it there, the boat wouldn't swing about to hang naturally off the pick,.
A look around showed all the boats at crazy angles, never had that happen before. The boat was a Oceanis 45, anchor was a nuts oversized Racnor.
Thanks. Yeah weird things can happen at anchor.
They made it off, how good, and it floats, no chance a new production boat with a glued on hull grid would have survived that.
very happy for them
