During yesterdays race we were using the asymmetrical spinnaker and decided instead of letting the tack line go when dousing it we would release the snap shackle at the tack and pull it into the cabin with the slack windward sheet

All went well until we rounded the last mark before the finish line and decided to drop the spinnaker

I was leaning over the front of the boat to release the snap shackle at the bowsprit and didn't realise that both of the snap shackles at the clew had released by themselves and it was only attached by the halyard and the tack

When i released the tack we ended up with the spinnaker flying from the masthead but it was behaving itself so we unfurled the head sail and sailed to the finish line with a large blue kite flying behind us

After crossing the line Jeff turned the boat so the spinnaker dropped down beside the boat and we were able to recover it with no damage

The race officers had a good laugh at us and took the photo's below but we managed a win crossing the line 46 seconds ahead on corrected time

Regards Don

G'day Don,
Nice! How come you guys can make it look so dignified?
Looking at the photos at least it wasn't blowing like stink, there's only so many flaps in a sail as they say!

Beautiful looking boat Donk.

How did the sheets release though? Funny!

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shoodbegood said..
Beautiful looking boat Donk.

How did the sheets release though? Funny!

Not really sure what happened

The were both attached to the clew with snap shackles with cord tails on them so when they were flogging around they must have managed to release themselves

When it let go we assumed we had torn the clew out of the sail but when it was back on the boat there was no damage to the sail at all

Regards Don

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shaggybaxter said..
G'day Don,
Nice! How come you guys can make it look so dignified?
Looking at the photos at least it wasn't blowing like stink, there's only so many flaps in a sail as they say!

Hi Shaggy

We were just happy that it wasn't the halyard snap shackle that let go as it didn't really affect our crossing the finish line

Regards Don

Looks like Priscilla queen of the Huon

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andy59 said..
Looks like Priscilla queen of the Huon

Hi Andy

It is a shame it didn't happen the week before on opening day as we might have won the best decorated boat on the sail past

Regards Don

Ha ha

Last week it was spinnaker drama's but this week we did one better and had spinnaker and head sail drama at the same time but in the end we got the mess sorted out and managed to come away with a win by a couple of minutes
The head sail drama was caused by me forgetting to re thread it through the dog balls guide after we dropped it when we hoisted the spinnaker resulting in the head sail coming out of the foil as i hoisted while the other blokes were trying to get the spinnaker down after we were headed
We are still trying to come to grips with the new asymmetrical spinnaker on the changeable gusty Huon river
Lucky for us when it is working it goes fast enough to make up for the times when we have the drama's

Regards Don

It looks reasonable after you've decided, which way to go!

That pic with the two sails both full in different directions is a classic!

Happy sailing!

Beautiful surroundings Don - are you racing in Cygnet?

cheers

Phil

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Kankama said..
Beautiful surroundings Don - are you racing in Cygnet?

cheers

Phil

Hi Phil

Just up the river from Cygnet at Port Huon

It is a pretty place to sail with the hills in the background

Regards Don

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sirgallivant said..
It looks reasonable after you've decided, which way to go!

That pic with the two sails both full in different directions is a classic!

Happy sailing!

Hi Sirgallivant

Each week we try to keep the starters entertained and give them something to take a photo of

I reckon the crew on The Yoop in the second photo who passed us as we were trying to sort the mess out had a bit of a laugh as well

The reverse spinnaker might be a good trick to keep up our sleeves to slow us down if we think we are going to cross the start line to soon

Regards Don

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Donk107 said..
Last week it was spinnaker drama's but this week we did one better and had spinnaker and head sail drama at the same time but in the end we got the mess sorted out and managed to come away with a win by a couple of minutes
The head sail drama was caused by me forgetting to re thread it through the dog balls guide after we dropped it when we hoisted the spinnaker resulting in the head sail coming out of the foil as i hoisted while the other blokes were trying to get the spinnaker down after we were headed
We are still trying to come to grips with the new asymmetrical spinnaker on the changeable gusty Huon river
Lucky for us when it is working it goes fast enough to make up for the times when we have the drama's

Regards Don

Nice one Don!

We had no end of dramas when I first started using the spinnaker on my boat. Took a couple of these "live problem solving" events to figure things out.

Worst time was when we managed to get the spinnaker and heady halyards tangled together to the point we couldn't drop the kite at all and we couldn't raise the heady. Ended up having to withdraw from the race, motor back to the mooring and have a fun little maypole dance on the foredeck to fix it all.

The major lightbulb moment was when one of my crew noticed the exit block for the spinnaker halyard was offset to the side slightly and we realised that all our problem would go away as long as we made sure the halyard was led down the correct side of the forestay before hoisting.

Thanks to that, on Sunday, I was able to pop the kite twice in a race with only one other person on board, who'd never been sailing with me!

I've never been onboard a boat with an assy though and no idea what the tricks are in setup or hoisting one. Have looked at a couple of videos on youtube, but they're mostly about cruising chutes with snuffers, not proper racing kites.

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Planeray said..


I've never been onboard a boat with an assy though and no idea what the tricks are in setup or hoisting one. Have looked at a couple of videos on youtube, but they're mostly about cruising chutes with snuffers, not proper racing kites.

Based on great advice I received on this forum, I have setup my boat to use a small symmetrical spinnaker as an assy. Essentially mounted a block at the bow in front of the furler (actually on the tow rail) for the tack line. Put a clip on it and run the tack line back to a turning block at the cockpit. We clip the turtle bag to the side stay and launch it from there. When we drop, we go forward and release the tack line, then pull in the spinnaker under the boom and into the cabin through the rear hatch. I have found that having a tweaker on the sheet allows for a good range of adjustment as the wind moves. Usable wind angle is about 60 to 120, best at 90. No doubt would work better with a proper assy, but cheap and easy to setup.

On the recent trip north and back, we were able to launch and retrieve with only 2 people on board. My symmetrical usually requires 5. I probably have a photo somewhere if you need more info.

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Planeray said..

Donk107 said..
Last week it was spinnaker drama's but this week we did one better and had spinnaker and head sail drama at the same time but in the end we got the mess sorted out and managed to come away with a win by a couple of minutes
The head sail drama was caused by me forgetting to re thread it through the dog balls guide after we dropped it when we hoisted the spinnaker resulting in the head sail coming out of the foil as i hoisted while the other blokes were trying to get the spinnaker down after we were headed
We are still trying to come to grips with the new asymmetrical spinnaker on the changeable gusty Huon river
Lucky for us when it is working it goes fast enough to make up for the times when we have the drama's

Regards Don

Nice one Don!

We had no end of dramas when I first started using the spinnaker on my boat. Took a couple of these "live problem solving" events to figure things out.

Worst time was when we managed to get the spinnaker and heady halyards tangled together to the point we couldn't drop the kite at all and we couldn't raise the heady. Ended up having to withdraw from the race, motor back to the mooring and have a fun little maypole dance on the foredeck to fix it all.

The major lightbulb moment was when one of my crew noticed the exit block for the spinnaker halyard was offset to the side slightly and we realised that all our problem would go away as long as we made sure the halyard was led down the correct side of the forestay before hoisting.

Thanks to that, on Sunday, I was able to pop the kite twice in a race with only one other person on board, who'd never been sailing with me!

I've never been onboard a boat with an assy though and no idea what the tricks are in setup or hoisting one. Have looked at a couple of videos on youtube, but they're mostly about cruising chutes with snuffers, not proper racing kites.

Hi Planeray and EC31

We have used this one in 4 races so far (1 at night) and had a bit of a play with it when we aren't racing and most of the time it goes up and down and gybes ok but occasionally we stuff it up and this is normally when we are approaching the finish line where the camera's are

Also the leg where we stuff up the most is mainly coming out of the bay and going around a mark where a gybe is normally needed and the kit is normally only up for a 3 or 4 minutes before the gybe and 3 or 4 minutes after so there is a bit of pressure on to get it up, across and down quickly to make it worthwhile putting it up

We will keep playing with it and eventually we will get it sorted and we just need to get in to a routine of how it all happens in a hurry where the person at the front of the boat (me) and the people at the back of the boat pulling thing on and letting things go will know when to do it without us having to talk to each other during the process

On the wind angles we have had a bit of success running dead down wind with it goose winged if needed but normally the wind changes that often that this is only for a short time

Regards Don

We do a series once a month that generally has long legs over a 3 hour race. The handicapper adds 5 minutes to your time if you elect to use a spinnaker (announced by radio before the start). Sometimes it pays, other times it doesn't. But the race is not offshore, if it was I would think a spinnaker would be worthwhile all the time.
We also do a separate series once a month that is a windward leeward short course (about 1 nautical mile) of 2 laps over 3 races on the day. Same deal for handicap, although it is 3 minutes per race. For this race I always elected not to use a spinnaker. At 5 knots, each downwind leg is about 12 minutes, so allowing for for up and down, we get maybe 8-9 minutes with the spinnaker up. My lightweight 150% is only slightly slower than the spinnaker downwind. As we can pole up the 150% quicker than launching the spinnaker, and the drop at the end is much faster and safer, there is little benefit in risking using the spinnaker. Also, my headsail is able run at the same downwind angle as the full symmetrical.
With a less than fully experienced crew, spinnakers add many more things that can go wrong. As we race ourselves on handicap, he who makes the least mistakes wins.
We have renamed various parts on my boat, the bow is known as adventureland, and the cockpit is fantasyland.

I find crew experience to make a huge difference with the spinnaker. With right crew you can hold on in higher winds and its great fun! Port Phillip bay in 20 + riding waves off St Kilda for example in a little TS.

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Donk107 said..

Planeray said..

Donk107 said..
Last week it was spinnaker drama's but this week we did one better and had spinnaker and head sail drama at the same time but in the end we got the mess sorted out and managed to come away with a win by a couple of minutes
The head sail drama was caused by me forgetting to re thread it through the dog balls guide after we dropped it when we hoisted the spinnaker resulting in the head sail coming out of the foil as i hoisted while the other blokes were trying to get the spinnaker down after we were headed
We are still trying to come to grips with the new asymmetrical spinnaker on the changeable gusty Huon river
Lucky for us when it is working it goes fast enough to make up for the times when we have the drama's

Regards Don

Nice one Don!

We had no end of dramas when I first started using the spinnaker on my boat. Took a couple of these "live problem solving" events to figure things out.

Worst time was when we managed to get the spinnaker and heady halyards tangled together to the point we couldn't drop the kite at all and we couldn't raise the heady. Ended up having to withdraw from the race, motor back to the mooring and have a fun little maypole dance on the foredeck to fix it all.

The major lightbulb moment was when one of my crew noticed the exit block for the spinnaker halyard was offset to the side slightly and we realised that all our problem would go away as long as we made sure the halyard was led down the correct side of the forestay before hoisting.

Thanks to that, on Sunday, I was able to pop the kite twice in a race with only one other person on board, who'd never been sailing with me!

I've never been onboard a boat with an assy though and no idea what the tricks are in setup or hoisting one. Have looked at a couple of videos on youtube, but they're mostly about cruising chutes with snuffers, not proper racing kites.

Hi Planeray and EC31

We have used this one in 4 races so far (1 at night) and had a bit of a play with it when we aren't racing and most of the time it goes up and down and gybes ok but occasionally we stuff it up and this is normally when we are approaching the finish line where the camera's are

Also the leg where we stuff up the most is mainly coming out of the bay and going around a mark where a gybe is normally needed and the kit is normally only up for a 3 or 4 minutes before the gybe and 3 or 4 minutes after so there is a bit of pressure on to get it up, across and down quickly to make it worthwhile putting it up

We will keep playing with it and eventually we will get it sorted and we just need to get in to a routine of how it all happens in a hurry where the person at the front of the boat (me) and the people at the back of the boat pulling thing on and letting things go will know when to do it without us having to talk to each other during the process

On the wind angles we have had a bit of success running dead down wind with it goose winged if needed but normally the wind changes that often that this is only for a short time

Regards Don

Hi Don,
Thats great to hear you're getting near ddw with it, which isn't that easy with an aso. This is a pic taken on the weekend (thanks Mr Magoo) of our new deep running kite. I got this made as my original kite starts dying any deeper than 150twa.

Hi Shaggy

She looks nice

A couple of questions if you don't mind

Do you gybe it on the inside or the outside ( i tried to see where your windward sheet is going in the photo but can't quite see) and if on the inside do you have any drama's getting it across cleanly without it wanting to wrap around the fore stay

I think one of the problems we have is our little bowsprit only sits around 600 mm in front of the head sail so it doesn't give a lot of gap to get it through where as looking at photo's on your gallery it looks like yours sit a lot further out front

I actually just looked at the photo's i posted of ours up and when it is set there looks like there is a heap of room so perhaps i am being a bit of a sook

Our next race on Saturday is this one which is about 21nm in a straight line so hopefully we can get it up and leave it there for a while

Regards Don

Outside mate.
The foredecky (a) is up the bow holding the lazy sheet above the bowsprit. We have a guy (b) on the side deck behind the shrouds also holding the lazy sheet.
As we turn the boat, we ease the working sheet and float the clew till level with the forestay.
As you pass ddw, we throw the working sheet off the winch.
A and B haul like mad on the lazy sheet, pit crew is tailing madly the slack on the new winch.
Kite pops nicely, grind on the slack, we steady on the new course.

Then I wake up, promising myself it's all going to work like that when we go sailing next

Regards inside...I've got 2 metres between the forestay and bobstay, and there's no way I can get a clean set going inside, we'll normally wrap it for sure. So you're not a woose!!

Edit: For me , the trick to not getting a wrap is to float the clew forward till level with the forestay. I don't turn the boat through Ddw till the clew is level.

Great stuff Don! All very informative to a spinnaker infant like myself.

I'll add a couple of clarifications to the above.
The foredecky makes sure the lazy sheet is above the bowsprit. With a hand either side of the forestay, he flips the lazy sheet as well as he can above the spinnaker tack and holds it loosely. Might only be an inch above, but if we leave it lying on the bowsprit, the clew gets pulled into the tack and can get caught up.

Make sure you blow the working sheet off the winch when the clew goes level. Don't leave even a turn on it. The resistance of even one wrap makes it so much harder to get the lazy sheet on and the kite past the forestay cleanly.

The foredecky will haul on the lazy sheet until the clew is past the forestayand almost in his hand. He'll then run back to the shrouds pulling the lazy sheet with him while his mate (b) is standing still behind the shrouds hauling away merrily. Foredecky gets to the shrouds and hauls down on the clew to help the kite pop before letting go (usually just before the kite inflates, picking him up and tossing him into the water)

if if you don't have enough crew , leave out man (b) he's there purely to help the foredecky by hauling away the whole time. You can't do without the foredecky or the pit crew manning the winches.

Hi Shaggy

I think the main concern with going outside is that the sheet is going to go under the bow and so that is why we have gone with the inside option although the spinnaker has a solid batten like piece about 300 mm long that pokes upwards and forward at about 45 degrees from the tack to catch the sheet but i am not sure it would so someone holding it up might be the go

Have you had the unloaded sheet go under the bow at any stage

What we have been trying to do it walk the clew forward using the unloaded sheet as Jeff turns the boat and then feeding it through but like you say perhaps we need to let the loaded sheet go and let the clew go forward by itself before trying to pull it through

Regards Don

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Donk107 said..
Hi Shaggy

I think the main concern with going outside is that the sheet is going to go under the bow and so that is why we have gone with the inside option although the spinnaker has a solid batten like piece about 300 mm long that pokes upwards and forward at about 45 degrees from the tack to catch the sheet but i am not sure it would so someone holding it up might be the go

Have you had the unloaded sheet go under the bow at any stage

What we have been trying to do it walk the clew forward using the unloaded sheet as Jeff turns the boat and then feeding it through but like you say perhaps we need to let the loaded sheet go and let the clew go forward by itself before trying to pull it through

Regards Don

I have the same batten on the new kite,( the original one doesn't) and no, we've never had a lazy sheet go under the bow with either kite.

Dont walk the clew forward, let the wind do it for you. Take enough wraps off the working winch so you can still control it and start easing at moderate speed ( start easing even before turning the boat) keeping the kite full, it won't collapse unless the helmsman turns too quickly. The helm is watching the clew , if you're too slow on the winch he'll stop turning the boat, holding ddw till the clew is level.
When it's near enough'ish to level, the foredecky starts to haul the lazy sheet over , the pit guys throws off the working winch completely . The clew will come over at waist/head height and the foredecky is off and running to the shrouds with the clew in/ near his hands.

The sweet spot when everything works is the boat will be just past ddw as the clew passes in front of the forestay. If you're not past ddw, or at least ddw, the poor foredecky is struggling trying to haul the clew past the forestay against the wind.
This is why you need to blow the sheet off the winch, one wrap and you're fighting the resistance all the way over.
It's important the helmsman controls the turn of the boat to suit the foredecky, not just chuck it over and let it all go to poo.
Too fast a turn and the kite collapses into the forestay with the clew not around, too slow a turn and the foredecky' skulldragging the kite over the forestay popping blood vessels.

Hi Shaggy

I have looked at a few sail maker web sites and a few you tube video's and like you say the outside gybe appears to be the go except on sports boats with long bowsprits where they recommend going inside

Something else the say is to sheet the main into the centre while gybing so it doesn't block the airflow to the spinnaker to stop it floating forward

Is this something you do

I will have a talk to Jeff and i think we might give it a go on Saturday and see how it works

Thanks for the advise

Regards Don

Hi Don,
Absolutely yes, we definitely centre the traveller , lock it off, sheet on the main sheet till it's like a reaching set, ie: the end of the boom will be inside the beam of the boat.
After that we ignore the main completely till the kite is gybed, ground on and trimmed.
Then we ease the traveller and fuss with the mainsheet.

in really heavy airs we won't sheet on the main but that's s nuance with my boat, not normal .

Edit: Yep , inside gybes are definitely a long sprit gig, but also when you're running a flatter reaching kite. A deeper belly kite has a lot of material to get through the gap.
My 100m2 and my 150m2 kites I can inside gybe, the new one's at 190m2 is no chance !

We did something that may be of interest on "Vega" with an assy - had one built with a torsion resistant luff rope , all set up on a code zero Profurl wheel furler. Hoist with the luff tight, then slackened the halyard a little and the assu assumed a normal shape. With the luff tight it sent the cloth behind the luff to windward and we could get up to 60 degrees apparent. We led the loop of the furling line back to the cockpit and were able to wind a couple of loops around a Mazwell electric pot hauler. Take the slack up with a snatch block. Stand on the switch and the assy wound in fairly fast, and was safe to gybe when half furled inside the 1 meter prodder. I could and did regularly fly and gybe the sail single handed on the 47.5 ft cat.

We regularly run a kite both aysometric and symetric 2 handed so to have 5 crew helping would be a piece of piss. Granted we dont run them over 15 knots unless caught out.
My ayso runs directly off the bow roller no prodded. It has one of the little battens on it also I don't think we have ever had a wrap around the forstayand deifinetly never under the bow. Wife is on the helm we run square as we do I ease the sheet clew goes well past the forstay before I pull on the new sheet . If anything kite flaps a bit out the front of the boat. Easy with only 2 people .

Hi PhoenixStar and Twodogs

Thanks for your information

Twodogs from what you describe would I assume you are gybing it on the outside

From reading what Shaggy and you other guys have posted and from looing at other sites on the net the outside gybe and letting it blow forward before dragging it around seems to be the way to go

Regards Don

Great story, back in my day of racing that would result in a "Bell ringing occasion" at the bar