i had a clear weekend for the last 2 days,so i took the opportunity to make use of some of the accumulated steel that was aging at the back of the shed. no progress pics , just the almost finished concept.
im trying to reduce rear axle length as i think this was what turned SOS into a jumping frog at really high speed on smooth salt( shouldnt be a problem on really rough ground.) i do love front suspension though and decided to play witha shocky this time as im chasing a bit of front counterweighting. i cant really get the mast any further forward without becoming a wacky french copy . so heres what ive got so far

Interesting arrangement for the suspension, I have played with various set ups but given up when the power overwhelms the spring resistance. Is your system designed so than with surges of power the top section of the chassis presses down on the suspension arm and then relaxes? Look forward to seeing how it goes.

I like that suspension that should work on the mini

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Bynorthsea said..
Interesting arrangement for the suspension, I have played with various set ups but given up when the power overwhelms the spring resistance. Is your system designed so than with surges of power the top section of the chassis presses down on the suspension arm and then relaxes? Look forward to seeing how it goes.

what we found by experience on a smooth surface was that the front loads up in a gust , the mast stands up and to control the rear wheel lifting you sail to windward. this gave the yacht reallllly good pointing ability. on really rough stuff ( back leg of walyungup)the yachts with some suspension almost float over the ground whilst the stiffer chassis's bash through.
the trick with the whole yacht is to balance the weight on the front with weight out the back ( the pilot) and the mast/sail combination.
then you just need the right tyres to keep the back from sliding .
basically im building a walyungup yacht even though i go there not very often

You may want to consider fitting some type of cheek plate below the mast post to stop side way flexing of the front beam. I found it was necessary after a little wear in the pivot point.

s



till slowly putting bits on so I can bolt it up and see how much flex it carries . shouldnt be much due to the shortness o it all .
ive gone for a classic look to the seat this time rather than a horse trough

Does this mean you will be up for another working bee on the class 5's soon?

To do list:
- Drop axles for big wheels
- Modify front spar pivot point to reduce lateral movement as per Vic's post above
- Big wheel building / repairing / workshop / tutorial

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Sylk said..
Does this mean you will be up for another working bee on the class 5's soon?

To do list:
- Drop axles for big wheels
- Modify front spar pivot point to reduce lateral movement as per Vic's post above
- Big wheel building / repairing / workshop / tutorial

Make a ship load of wheels for Andrew.

Fit a rotating "Beware beacon" on to John's yacht.

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Sylk said..
Does this mean you will be up for another working bee on the class 5's soon?

To do list:
- Drop axles for big wheels
- Modify front spar pivot point to reduce lateral movement as per Vic's post above
- Big wheel building / repairing / workshop / tutorial

long since moved on from the class 5 group build sylk. people stopped turning up etc. there are still 2 unfinished frames cluttering up the back yard plus a bucket of cut bits that ive been recycling.. the whole basis of a group build is thet you all keep at it until its finished . i only had a few weekends available for it and they are long since used up.

Paul you know dam well I was offering to come and help after my yacht was finished. I just stopped hassling you because I had the feeling you were over it.

Any time there is another working bee on let me know & Ill be there.

BTW if those unfinished frames are unwanted I could probably find you a buyer for one of them, depending on price?

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Sylk said..
Paul you know dam well I was offering to come and help after my yacht was finished. I just stopped hassling you because I had the feeling you were over it.

Any time there is another working bee on let me know & Ill be there.

BTW if those unfinished frames are unwanted I could probably find you a buyer for one of them, depending on price?

yes john , but there were 7 people building yachts , and they all needed to get there **** together as i didnt have time then , certainly not now for the next few months. people have to stop waiting for me , and get on with it. you guys in kambalda have the tools and practice,and the skills now so get into it and dont wait for me as im holding you all back.
there isnt another working bee. 2 yachts are here . carton each. Must make sure one doesnt belong to lynden first.

managed to grab a couple of hours this weekend,so the tailsection has started to come together. lots of glass and wood to keep it solid.
meanwhile I had to make a new disc to build the front wheel. in the past eevery nick and crack in the mold has shown up so i thought, why not engrave
the wood beforehand. I then set about doing the calligraphy. after showing my handywork to promogirl she commented on it being a mold therefore all the wording had to be back to front!!!!!!!!! back into the shed today to build a new disc with back to front engraved calligraphy;-)


spot the mistake

The 0 in "60" is inverted

keep looking

Its "s" (in Works)! At least in my pocket-mirror...

bingo! came up great on the new wheel too, definitely need some more practice though as it came out a bit elvish

Ah, elvish!
(first time i read elvis! the mold does look a bit like a vinyl-record, doesnt it?)
I like that streamline-tailsektion!
Thanx for a great year of learning on seabreeze. The best place to go when not sailing!
(ok, the workshop is a good option too)
Merry Christmas,
Joe

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landyacht said..
i had a clear weekend for the last 2 days,so i took the opportunity to make use of some of the accumulated steel that was aging at the back of the shed. no progress pics , just the almost finished concept.
im trying to reduce rear axle length as i think this was what turned SOS into a jumping frog at really high speed on smooth salt( shouldnt be a problem on really rough ground.) i do love front suspension though and decided to play witha shocky this time as im chasing a bit of front counterweighting. i cant really get the mast any further forward without becoming a wacky french copy . so heres what ive got so far

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landyacht said..
bingo! came up great on the new wheel too, definitely need some more practice though as it came out a bit elvish

Landyacht, being a Penny Farthing builder I am intrigued to wonder who is riding the Penny Farthing in your logo. Also what design is the bicycle, original or repo?

I am also getting into Blokarts very shortly and was impressed with your ideas in photo.

Edlee

Gidday Edlee,

The penny farthing in the picture is being ridden by Landyacht [Paul] who lives in Boulder/Kalgoorlie.

The penny farthing is owned by the Father of another Seabreeze land yachter - Chook, who is tolerated by the population of Esperance
Chook's Dad's bike is a 1980's repro, his father collects all sorts of antique machinery, which Chook tinkers with.

Chook and Paul are collaborating on the construction of their own "scratch built" penny farthings.

Both are best described as a pair of larrikins, ratbags and top fellas to hang out with.

Both can build just about anything from, well, anything - as long as it involves a shed or a back yard

www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/Land-Yacht-Sailing/Construction/Chook-and-Landyachts-pennyfarthing-thread/

stephen

i didnt realize just what a mission it would be to build a PF. over a year just to get spoke wire.
Im trying to clear the shed so i can focus on the PF but its a slow process. built a penny fake thing, entered a bike race, came last,took it all seriously , joined a club, little stig took it real seriously, both won a race each for the season!!!!!!
got stupidly fit in the process, meanwhile built a recumbent, a tandem and a vintage replica(hence the term sidetrackitis)
then rode a 1887 rudge and started back on track.
.
.
.
.
.
..
back to the thread
got it all sussed and painted . it just looks like a pile of sticks at this stage
.
heres how the engraving of the disc moulld turned out. Im impressed with it . however when i painted it I had to strip the paint twice due to the paint being crap and the heat melting the paint. the green shrek vomit stain on the shed floor was the result.. i fell back to the trusty hammertone rattle can, and wattle rustkill metal paint . all came up looking quite tidy

just looks like a bunch of sticks at this stage

but quite a tidy front end . with no slop.

As a "bunch of sticks" it looks great Paul. What mast rake angle did you use, is it adjustable and is the layover steering still preferred at about 30? I like the front suspension with the long length swing arm. All the best for the new year, hope it is a healthy one for you and for all Landyachters around the globe. Must catch up again some day when all the distractions settles here.....Wok

Paul,if you sail over low, long bumps will that induce the mast/sail to start whipping back and forwards or is there enough delay from the front shock.

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Test pilot 1 said..
Paul,if you sail over low, long bumps will that induce the mast/sail to start whipping back and forwards or is there enough delay from the front shock.

it shouldnt . the last suspension , and the long OTT Y frame of SOS were suspension but i suspect they were storing the energy then biting back .
this front end , however is a SHOCK absorber" so it should go up and down releasing the energy and not oscillating.
sail currently looks like this 4.6m of second hand kevlar/dynema weave . we cut 2 sets of panels from a trimaran headsail.. 2 different "sailmakers" putting them together

sail is moving along nicely all the panels are togethr, the corners reinforced,and the edges taped. battens tommorow, weather permiting. 47 degrees in the shed is too hard

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landyacht said..
sail is moving along nicely all the panels are togethr, the corners reinforced,and the edges taped. battens tommorow, weather permiting. 47 degrees in the shed is too hard

WOW, You sure like big grommets!

those are the test grommets, I'l stick with the 5kg ones when sailing
sail finished and set up on an ally boom that was a discard from Cherrueix.
Ive managed centre sheeting with ease,no rowlock. I hope it all goes in a straight line
mast is 2 piece ally and 3rd piece(top) is 75% carbon. Ive an ally top ,just in case


the mast has been trimmed at thetop and glass reinforced to tatke the swivel crane. still got to make a seatbelt and trim the rear axles to fit chooks width
and a small cushion, and the boom to shortn and the othe mast /sail combo to fit out, and a longer top batten,gps mount, waterbottle carrier, so almost there

Great looking build! We await it's maiden flight.
It's neat to see the continual improvement in such things as the front shock and mast forward designs.

I recently received a small (125mm bolt hole to bolt hole) shock unit and determined that it has no damping ability. That is, there is no piston in the cylindrical housing to resist possible oscillation of the spring.
It still provides a good starting point for me to modify it, but I'd like to know if this is the norm of the bike shocks encountered. Definitely some higher end "air shocks" and dirt bike shocks have real dampers but I was curious about these cheaper units. Are damperless units what others have found and used in their builds also?

My $20 unit of ebay has or had dampening. It lasted about 2 years, Last weekend the front started chattering badly. Checked the shock when I got home and it was U/S now replaced.(you will soon know if it is stuffed the front will start bouncing and loss of control in the corners is the end result)

the 160mm long units ive used have a ft/lb rating around 650-750 lbs. I do have a beefy 1200 unit but it is longer.
these are all shocks that are rescued from cheepo bikes at the tip

Thanks guys for the quick reply.
Here's some pics of the shock I was referring to. When one winds the nut to unload all the tension of the spring, I was expecting some resistance of a piston like that of the slowing mechanism of a screen door closer. There was none and a fair amount of slop so I undid the nut to look inside and here it is!





My first thought was they skimped and omitted a plastic or rubber grommet like ring on the flared end that would make a piston (to be used with air or oil). Maybe it will work just as-is if filled with thick grease, and they shipped it "dry". But hey, what should one expect for $10.

These are the alternative shocks with dampers but they cost more too


http://www.ebay.com/itm/Kazuma-Baby-Junior-Falcon-110cc-Front-Quad-Bike-ATV-Shock-Absorber-275mm-300lb-/171643350328?pt=Motors_ATV_Parts_Accessories&hash=item27f6bdad38&vxp=mtr

www.ebay.com/itm/12-5-320mm-Pair-Air-Rear-Shocks-Absorber-Adjustment-Motor-50-300cc-600lbs-Soft-/191075391478?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item2c7cfb17f6&vxp=mtr

Other hacking possibilities include bike forks and sea post replacements that incorporate air dampers.

Paul, it could be useful to design for field swappable shock units to see how they perform. I think 1200lbs/in would perform worse but an even lighter one than 650lbs/in *might* perform better.
Here's my thinking (but with little experience could well be off) for a mini I recall from the CE discussion the front wheel likes to be statically loaded (sail, mast, passenger aboard) about 45lbs. If we were an automobile we would specify a spring directly over the axle of about 45lbs/in. If we have a design that moves the spring back along a lever towards the pivot point such that the ratio of pivot-point-to-axle (more accurately: pivot-point to tire-contact-point-to-ground-when-loaded) to pivot-point-to-spring-mount, is 5:1 then the appropriate spring rate desired is 5*45lbs/in. My guess is that Vic's configuration was more in agreement with the previous bike's design. One way to see if this thought is on the right track is to examine the shock mounted donor bike. Assume the expected passenger weight (and also try it out for a maximum expected rider weight) and do the lever ratios and see if they fall into the range of the 650-750lbs/in and 1200lbs/in shocks installed.
It's a guess as to how much the spec should be upsized for dynamic loading to absorb shocks of the road condition. Being new to incorporating shock specs into a design, it took a while to make heads or tails out of the figures (ie: is 650 the min, max or ave?). After some thought I arrived at: if one has a 650lbs/in shock with 1" of available travel, and the adjustment nut firm against the spring, it would be set for 650lbs at no deflection, and 1300lbs at the extreme of 1" deflection.
My shock is smaller as I've been perusing for a while to find something even smaller than 300lbs/in albeit with not much luck.

While on the subject of bikes, you mentioned you might put a gas engine on a bike, keep that going! It's on my list also - along the lines of whizzer or goldeneagle, but I'd like to see what nifty and clever designs you might conjure up for the engagement mechanism - out of scraps of course!

-John