Just purchased a 6.5 sail & 520 mast from sail works for my big boat, have a few questions about your mast step. My original set up,
my mast slide down inside my mast step 14" and had a collar at that point. The bttm of the mast rested on a plug inside the tube and fit inside the bttm of the mast. John, I need to know how your rigging your mast step on your small boats as I am thinking about doing the same on my big boat. Help wanted as going to ivanpah late Oct..

Thanks Windcrazy

My mast tube is the same with a metal plate on the bottom for the mast to rest on.The tube is loose so I can adjust the mast for and aft.

How far does your mast go down in the step? If I rig my 6.5 all the way to the top of the mast I only have about 15 1/2'" down in the tube. That leaves no allowance for sail stretch. I also am concerned about mast breakage.

Various solutions: put a plug into the step to raise the mast giving more usable length. If you have concerns about mast breakage you can use broken sections of old masts/ booms to reinforce the lower sections. To extend the top of your mast you can use aluminium sections of vaccuum cleaner pipe just dont tell the missus/plead ignorance. Bell the top of the mast step at a large radius to lessen the stess at that point.

Would it be OK to put the mast step inside the mast instead of outside? my small boats are rigged that way with no problems. I'm just worried about the flex of the mast on the lower section.

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Windcrazy said..
Would it be OK to put the mast step inside the mast instead of outside? my small boats are rigged that way with no problems. I'm just worried about the flex of the mast on the lower section.

No.... a fibreglass / carbon fibre mast will splinter within a matter of seconds if you try and support it internally, As mentioned add internal supports and that goes into a mast tube.

Then why doesn't the mast spinter where it goes together? On my small boats I have a internal support that goes up inside the mast 18" and protrudes 18" out the bttm. There is a collar that goes up in the bttm of the mast about 3" to keep the mast from moving. It is also the same size as the id on the mast tube. Pics if needed.

Because where the join is approx mid way has additional thickness designed in at manufacture, there also is normally quite an overlap with a very small tolerance of sizing.
Also mid way up the mast there is much less force at that point.

If you have doubts of my comments, try it for yourself...... (like many others) if nothing else it will give spare mast pieces to use when you want to do it the tried and tested method.

Guess I will have to figure out a way to support it externally. Right now I only have 12" of mast protruding from the bttm of the sail luff which means part of my mast step has to go up in my sail luff. What a pain, I will figure something out. Thanks for the advise, hate to ruin a new 520 carbon mast.

As has been mentioned add more to the top of the mast..... Vacuum cleaner tubes have been used before.

No an internal mast step works just fine!!!!!

The pic below is at a high resolution so you can zoom in and get a close look.
Don't click on the photo, just increase your zoom level to 1000%.
Hold "Ctrl" and tap your "+" sign then use the side bars to position the bit you want to see. "Ctrl minus" back.

Greg has used this method here for some time now and is very successful.
His is mounted to the LLM chassis with 4 bolts on a square flange. This makes it fully interchangeable with ones of different rake angles. (or simply reversing it for long curved masts)
He used the pulley downhaul system off the base of a windsurfer mast extension and wrapped it in carbon to bond it to the base of the mast, so the downhaul rotates with the mast.

You still need to internally reinforce the mast with at least 600mm to 750mm of aluminium/steel tube that is a snug fit. (48mm OD or if they are the slightly smaller ID masts - 45mmOD. All my 3mm wall aluminium tubes have a curve in them so the thicker the better. Cut the 4x 150mm slots down from the top so these fingers flex and you don't have a stress point where the tube top finishes.).

Greg leaves his internal strengthener tube just pushed up the base of the mast so he can remove/alter it, as is needed.

It actually helps the mast to rotate easier when jibing.
I hasn't got anywhere to collect the grit and grime and if you are using camed sails the lower rotational friction is a real bonus.

He is bringing it back to Lake Lefroy so I'll try and remember to get a better photo of it for you.
I have lots of Gopro vids of it working, but cant sort out how it upload them.
My computer cracks a sad.

Errrr mini yacht?
With back wheels like that I think not....

Chook2, here are some pis of the current mast step setup that I have been using on my small boats with fiberglass masts. I preload the luff curve just like the windsurfers do and had no problems so far. The top section slips up in the bttm of the mast (snug fit) and the bttm goes in the mast step and allows the mast to rotate 180 deg. if needed.

Where do you get em?

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Gizmo said..
Errrr mini yacht?
With back wheels like that I think not....

Yeh it's a mini. It fits within the 5.6 mtr rope rule.
Just has it's soft surface wheels fitted for our local lake.

Does it look like we are competing in the photo Lighten up mate it's about having fun.

I can see now what you mean Windcrazy.
Cant see why it wouldn't work if it's strong enough.

The only hassle I can see would be that your downhaul is above the boom so a "Crocket downhaul" would be a little bit harder to achieve unless it was anchored at the bottom of your mast step on the chassis.
That's what I do with downhaul, I just have even numbers of cords going past each side of the boom down to the bottom pulley block.

Check out his sheeting method as Greg has trouble with his hands and it's much less strain on his fingers and wrists with it coming in over his shoulder.

I think the socket is 13''. I know another guy that uses an internal mast step with another mast section slipped inside to make it stronger. I run a 30'' wood dowel inside my mast base for more support. How many inches short are you with the 6.5?

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Test pilot 1 said..
Where do you get em?

I build them, the tube is 1 1/2" x 1/4" wall 6061 aluminum. The black stuff is delrin I turn on the lathe. My buddy tig welds the ears on for me.

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US772 said..
I think the socket is 13''. I know another guy that uses an internal mast step with another mast section slipped inside to make it stronger. I run a 30'' wood dowel inside my mast base for more support. How many inches short are you with the 6.5?

I'm going to build a new one for my 6.5, 30" in the mast, 18" in the mast step. Right now I have 14"+ of mast at the bttm with sail rigged clear at the top. That leaves no room for boom fork or sail strecht. I'm doing away with the boom post on the one in the pics.

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Chook2 said..

Gizmo said..
Errrr mini yacht?
With back wheels like that I think not....

Yeh it's a mini. It fits within the 5.6 mtr rope rule.
Just has it's soft surface wheels fitted for our local lake.

Does it look like we are competing in the photo Lighten up mate it's about having fun.

I can see now what you mean Windcrazy.
Cant see why it wouldn't work if it's strong enough.

The only hassle I can see would be that your downhaul is above the boom so a "Crocket downhaul" would be a little bit harder to achieve unless it was anchored at the bottom of your mast step on the chassis.
That's what I do with downhaul, I just have even numbers of cords going past each side of the boom down to the bottom pulley block.

Check out his sheeting method as Greg has trouble with his hands and it's much less strain on his fingers and wrists with it coming in over his shoulder.

Rigging, good question, I've seen some on the forum but can't find them at the present time. Any ideas? Not up on sailing terms, know pointy end and flat end. I'm just a old woodworker learning how to play in the wind as long as I can.

Oh no, its NOT a mini5.6.... The rope measurement is just one of the several rules that a yacht must comply with, if it doesn't fit into ALL the rules it does not fit into the class.

Why am I so pedantic on fitting into the rules? Well if people build outside the class specs it devalues the class, yachts built by others and the sport overall, this has happened over time and with the introduction of the International 5.6 Mini finally there is a true 'world wide' class. (lets keep it that way)

I'm sorry, I'm not getting my head around the thought of someone going to the effort to invest time / effort / money to come up with non standard wheels under the pretext 'to suit our soft lake'.... those wheels would have less surface area in contact with the ground which would make them sink further than the regulation wheels. Are you telling me that this person NEVER wants to race or compete against other yachts?................. They are there to get an advantage over other yachts.

Here is how we down haul the front of the sail.

Lyndon Crocket, came up with this great system. The "Crocket downhaul"



Don't want to detract from this thread, but it will compete Gizmo with it's standard axles and wheels to conform to the mini class.(if the rain hasn't mucked up Lake Lefroy this weekend)

I agree with you Totally about complying with the very few requirements for mini class yachts.
The mini rules are so simple and sensible. The development is unlimited and very affordable just as it should be. I'm with you here 100% Gizmo.
These wheels are not for mini class racing, just having fun

We are not out to cheat by any means, it just gives us a "bigger envelope" to get more social sailing in, over the summer on our local softer surface in lighter winds.
These low pressure tyres, give us a longer footprint and a bigger rolling diameter on soft soil. They are not bulldozing uphill all the time, like the Fallshaws.

Looking at the "World Championships" photos on here. (which are awesome!!!) I did wonder how 4 or 5 yachts got away with taller thinner front wheels on their mini's, or are they in a different class
Cheers.

There were some minis with skinny front tires. To my knowledge they were legal. They did measure minis pre race. Pop inspections were done during the regatta on well placing minis. I was told one mini was about 3 inches over. The front suspension made the mini longer as it was compressed. I saw them Re check it at one inch over class. The measurement was deemed incorrect because the rig wasn't on the boat when measured. In reality if the rig was on the boat would be less likely to measure in. It was a bit disappointing to see this happen.

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Chook2 said..
Here is how we down haul the front of the sail.

Lyndon Crocket, came up with this great system. The "Crocket downhaul"



Don't want to detract from this thread, but it will compete Gizmo with it's standard axles and wheels to conform to the mini class.(if the rain hasn't mucked up Lake Lefroy this weekend)

I agree with you Totally about complying with the very few requirements for mini class yachts.
The mini rules are so simple and sensible. The development is unlimited and very affordable just as it should be. I'm with you here 100% Gizmo.
These wheels are not for mini class racing, just having fun

We are not out to cheat by any means, it just gives us a "bigger envelope" to get more social sailing in, over the summer on our local softer surface in lighter winds.
These low pressure tyres, give us a longer footprint and a bigger rolling diameter on soft soil. They are not bulldozing uphill all the time, like the Fallshaws.

Looking at the "World Championships" photos on here. (which are awesome!!!) I did wonder how 4 or 5 yachts got away with taller thinner front wheels on their mini's, or are they in a different class
Cheers.

Would you happen to know where the illustration for rigging sails for fun and racing might be at on the forum? I have a rough idea how, I want to rig the new sail but I need some other input. Your pic helps but is it possible to see the whole thing, end of boom included?

The latest Mini sheet setup I have which I think works pretty good is Fastened at seat back..up to double block on boom ...back down to single block on seat back ....back up to other sheave on boom double block and then forward to block on Crockett down haul as shown in pic above and then back to hand The crocket down haul is pretensioned first and tied off and the sliding final block is attached on one of the standing parts as in the pic
Hope this helps works well for me

Could someone draw me some diagrams of some mini sail rigging? Pics are better for this old febble brain of mine. To many paint fumes in my younger days.

Have a look at the post "lil stigs new mini " near the end is a good picture of the sheeting arrangement described

This is how I rigged my downhaul. ...given how I placed in the worlds, you might not want to take my advice.

Brian

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sabydent said..








This is how I rigged my downhaul. ...given how I placed in the worlds, you might not want to take my advice.

Brian

Saby, are you trying to tell me you didn't do well at the worlds? I noticed in your pics that you run a internal post up inside your mast. That's the way I'm rigging
my 6.5 on my big boat. Still have to get some rigging hardware before all is said and done. Thanks for the pics on your rig.