Its just an idea ,
I try to make vissible with parts I already have , and some scrap metal.
The wheel is front, the orange part is the end and that piece is the front of my ice flyer and I can put in a wheel same size.
In the T- part most of us know, I put my 160cm rear axle in for the idea. From the center of the mini to the long left end of the axle is 115 cm. My other axle isn't dry jet from painting and is 230 cm long.
From front to rear axle is 210 cm, from front axle to the side is 220 cm, from the side rear axle is 120 cm. A total of 550 cm roughly
These are messurements with a marge.
Because the back wheel is behind the axle I thought it must steer with a steering angle like a bike, if its locked and dosn???t steer than it drags in turns . I tink with this angle it just follows.
The back will raise when I put a wheel in.
If left is in the air than the right wheel is on the ground and vice versa. The orange part gives the lift, a foto shows more than I can type.

Hi Peter.
Is the idea that its like a bike whit uplifted training weels?
I kinda lost you there
Greetz jacco

Yes, thats the idea.
Wider axle and a bit longer and still fitting in the 5.6 rule.

Hi Peter
I think someone put this idea forward before
I guess the aim is to get more stability by having a wider track
and still keep within the rules
The down sides as I see it is extra weight, drag and loss of manoevrability ?
I could be wrong
cheers
Hiko

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Hiko said..
Hi Peter
I think someone put this idea forward before

I guess the aim is to get more stability by having a wider track

and still keep within the rules

The down sides as I see it is extra weight, drag and loss of manoevrability ?

I could be wrong

cheersHiko

Hi Hiko,

Last april I did try to start to build a mini, and try to use some parts from my ice flyer .
As the parts where all around me the idea of quad configuration came up.
Yes, someone else put this idea forward before, but I could not find the info I was looking for , someone who is building one or adjust his mini to quad.

So thats why i start this topic to work out and spread the idea, to get help and reply.
I am not good at mathematics and open for sugestions.

The aim is:
- to get more stability by wider track,
-without extra drag and loss of manoevrability,
-for those who have a mini now easy -low cost to adjust to quad configuration,
and still keep within the rules.
The down side is extra weight , same time bigger sails maybe possible.

Its fun and a challenge for me to build something no one build before and good to race if it fits within the rules.
I am not intended to join a race, just to have fun.

Cheers Peter

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PeterVernet said..

[

Its fun and a challenge for me to build something no one build before and good to race if it fits within the rules.
I am not intended to join a race, just to have fun.

Cheers Peter

Well that is sure reason enough to do it
Good luck with it
Cheers
Hiko

Zoiets?

www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/Land-Yacht-Sailing/Construction/land-Sailing-four-wheels-projectsaid-FOUR/#528230

Yes , something like that looking only at the wheel configuration.
That is avery futuristic desing for the body, I like to keep that part simple.
But I will try to add my swing mast idea in this project, to keep the mast vertical while sailing.

Today I make all messurements and many foto's also in details.
The quad fit into the 5.6 rule .

I only have to chance the tires on the track, for wheelbarrel wheels, these are on are 13 cm wide .
Used the specs from LLM only the track T-part I remake to slide forward and make hight for the track.
But also can be used with a standart mini 160 cm wide track.

One foto is in my profile with the progression so far, let me know if you want more information.
All questions and comments are welkom.

Hi Peter.
Just wonder. If the stearing is in the back and the yacht tips you will lose control.or are the
Front and the back contra stearing.like on a truck
Greetz jacco

Hi Peter, all going well I see, interesting idea with the mast too. I wonder if someone would like to experiment with a mini quad with axle out front, pilot in front of mast as on your Iceyacht and rear steering. You never see any motor bikes with rear dual wheels any more and those deadly three wheel farm bikes have all been replaced by quads. Must be a message there!

Hi Jacco,

The steering is in front, the rear wheel is going to be free to track by itself with a little bungee cord help to stay stable.

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wokelliott said..
Hi Peter, all going well I see, interesting idea with the mast too. I wonder if someone would like to experiment with a mini quad with axle out front, pilot in front of mast as on your Iceyacht and rear steering. You never see any motor bikes with rear dual wheels any more and those deadly three wheel farm bikes have all been replaced by quads. Must be a message there!

I will like to try to experiment with a mini quad with axle out front, and rear steering but pilot behind the mast and mast in front off the axle.
Thats easy to chance in my +frame.

Any more idea'sor questions? let me know.

Select to expand quote

PeterVernet said..

Hi Jacco,

The steering is in front, the rear wheel is going to be free to track by itself with a little bungee cord help to stay stable.

wokelliott said..
Hi Peter, all going well I see, interesting idea with the mast too. I wonder if someone would like to experiment with a mini quad with axle out front, pilot in front of mast as on your Iceyacht and rear steering. You never see any motor bikes with rear dual wheels any more and those deadly three wheel farm bikes have all been replaced by quads. Must be a message there!

I will like to try to experiment with a mini quad with axle out front, and rear steering but pilot behind the mast and mast in front off the axle.
Thats easy to chance in my +frame.

Any more idea'sor questions? let me know.

It's quite likely I've misunderstood, but if the rear wheel is 'free to track by itself', won't the rig lose control when the weight transfers from one side to the other and only the front and rear wheels are touching the ground? I hope i misread, but thought I'd throw it out there just in case....

I don't know,
first build off,
than sail a straight line,
after that a turn upwind.
after the turn i can tell you what happend,
if i get that far..

This is how I think:
Walk forward and push a empty wheelbarrel in front off you, you need force(lift one hand) to steer.
Walk forward and pull a empty wheelbarrel behind you it will follow you easy.

So far I used parts i have, just to figure out the quad idea fits in the rules.
I have to build some parts from here to get the quad sailing.
If lay over steering in front give me stabillity rolling in a straight line and still able to steer with force,
than I think/hope I can use it also at the back without force.

Build a second lay over steering last week, also build a V axle to lower the CG.
I will make pictures this weekend.

The screen turn into black if I want to add a picture here.
The 2 new pictures are in my profile, but I took a lot more in detail pictures .

The dementions:
from front axle bold to rear axle bold 206 cm, 2 X lay-over steering,
Track wide from outside left to outside right tire 260 cm, one wheel flying.
The + part design is 2,5cm uot off the center line, so i took the widest wheel range off center line.
It still fit exaltly in the 5.6 meter.

Without the track , just the center wheels and + part, its now quit easy to keep the balance standing and rolling slowly .
Didn't steer yet without the track.
With track I steer and the rear wheel is steering about 33% compared to the front wheel steering dementions.

Next step is finish some welding and move on to body work.

Hi Peter.
Maybe if you make the back follow weel, and it is made to take it of for transport anyway.you can make another back fork to keep it in a fixt position as well and ones you go and test it can see witch works out best for you.
Grtz jacco

Made already a block ,to lock the real wheel , just incase

There you go

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PeterVernet said..

Made already a block ,to lock the real wheel , just incase

Perfect

I took this car top box to start the body work .



I leveld the x-part and weld it back together,and build parts for connecting the body .



This is a block to lock the real wheel from steering.



Also made removeble and adjusteble back rest.
Welded on the mast post and support .
With the backrest, front and back wheel on I can put the rest of the gear (sideaxle's ,sail,mast and boom) in/on the body.
This is for a longer easy walk to the sailing spot i have in mind.

Things to do next for first sailing test:
Top of the body
Total finish of the body work
Saftybelt
Steering connection, i am not sure to go for a steering rod or cable steering( can use some advice here)
Sailrigg control, pulley's, rope's, boom.

Will like to use windsurfing sails, in first attempt uncut flat sails .

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PeterVernet said..



Things to do next for first sailing test:

Top of the body

Total finish of the body work
Saftybelt

Steering connection, cable steering

Sailrigg control, pulley's, rope's, boom.

All done.

Now find a parking or open area for testing, with a solid surface.
Pictures and maybe a video follows.

Took some pictures today before a test run, they are in my profile.

All fits easy into my car for transport and the test run was a slow but comfortable run on a parking.
Also I have put more tyre pressure on the tyres for quick take off sailing at solid surfaces.

For a direct feeling in the turns I will change the cable steering into rod steering.

Next step is to recut a old windsurfing sail for center pull, its full on the front with steering, downhaul and outhaul rope's and pulley's.

hi peter ,
how is that windsurfer gib as a backrest working out for you?
ive been thinking about using one myselve but im afraid it isnt strong enoug.
what do you think so far?

greetz jacco

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jackseman said..

hi peter ,
how is that windsurfer gib as a backrest working out for you?
ive been thinking about using one myselve but im afraid it isnt strong enoug.
what do you think so far?

greetz jacco

I have been using one of those on one of my minis for a few years now and it has been fine

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Hiko said..

jackseman said..



hi peter ,

how is that windsurfer gib as a backrest working out for you?

ive been thinking about using one myselve but im afraid it isnt strong enoug.

what do you think so far?



greetz jacco

I have been using one of those on one of my minis for a few years now and it has been fine

I have seen Hiko backrest on pictures and thought this would be good for me also. Thank you Hiko .
The problem is I brake my booms most of the times just afther the curve.
My back rest is a steel tube , grinded at several place to make the curve and welded back to gether like a U.
Its strong enough so far.

Changed the cross calbe steering into in line cable steering with wider atachment on the vork .
Adjust the back wheel and backrest to lay down more.

Cut the end of the side axles and weld them back with negative rake .
One wheel is still in the air but the body stays more horizontal and the mast more vertical.

With those axles its possible to use the yacht with 3 wheels or ice runners if I put the axles in with a 90? turn.
Without the back wheel its possible to laydown flat with my body under the sail.
The yacht don't fit in the mini rules anymore on 3 wheels.
Here my main goal is use this frame and body and test this on the beach or parking, to be ready for next winter if ice comes.

Select to expand quote

PeterVernet said..
Changed the cross calbe steering into in line cable steering with wider atachment on the vork .

Adjust the back wheel and backrest to lay down more.

Cut the end of the side axles and weld them back with negative rake .
img]

One wheel is still in the air but the body stays more horizontal and the mast more vertical.

With those axles its possible to use the yacht with 3 wheels or ice runners if I put the axles in with a 90? turn.

Without the back wheel its possible to laydown flat with my body under the sail.

The yacht don't fit in the mini rules anymore on 3 wheels.

Here my main goal is use this frame and body and test this on the beach or parking, to be ready for next winter if ice comes.

Ready for the next test ride.




Without the back wheel, rear axles 90? turned.

Had a good test at the dam parking between the dunes and the dam in gusty wind conditions , cause of unexpected high water afther a storm night.
Used the recut wave sail 5,3 in 30knots wind at the top of the dam and 15 knots down at the parking.(foto 1)
The rear wheel was steering just a little and worked fine, didn´t tested with the rear wheel blocked.
Lots of power in the sail to sail from the flat parking, high up straight agianst the dam like a rollercoaster, lots of fun.













Just need improve some details, lighter steering, better seat and sheeting blocks.
Center- and crocket downhaul workt great.