I kite all around perth metro beaches (mostly pinnaroo, mullaloo and trigg/scarbs)... I can't be the only one that sh!ts themselves coming off my board 200m out
I'd love to hear some shark experiences and encounters while kiting etc. from you guys and girls...

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Keir said..
I kite all around perth metro beaches (mostly pinnaroo, mullaloo and trigg/scarbs)... I can't be the only one that sh!ts themselves coming off my board 200m out
I'd love to hear some shark experiences and encounters while kiting etc. from you guys and girls...

Had a few interactions with sharks over the years. A large Great White surfaced 100m away from where about 5 of us were surfing in Sandpatch, Albany. Was just cruising along and not the slightest bit interested in us, but it spooked me. Just the size/girth of the thing..I'm now much more selective where and when I surf. That said I think you'd have to be extremely unlucky to encounter a large shark when kiting or windsurfing. You're much more vulnerable when surfing/diving.

Just remember when you see this 2km's off Hillary's..

a white shark see's
Delicious right...

You've just got to hope the drive through line isn't too long so that they have to go looking for something else thats close

the chances of getting done by a shark while kitesurfing are pretty non-existent . Water is dirty and choppy and generally not shark conditions . If you were supping early morning and it was flat then yes i would poop myself , but not while kiting

Saw my first shark while kiting last week. Only a little 4-5 footer. Came down from a big boost and saw him cruising around behind the reef break right about where I was gonna land, I hit the water and he took off

If u do all the islands up around onslow....montebellos...thevanard....direction....its great. There are so many and its super cool &good vis.. Abrolhos is a good place to chase and spot them too....
However I have to say two years ago in lancelin was the only time i ever purposely 'lost' a board.... 25mins teabagging in 8m+ green muck 1km+ out was enough for me. When I finally got it back up I was back inland in a shot. Never dropped a kite since and been v aware of wind dropping etc on exmouth bommies and reefs since then. Around exxy theres heaps too.coolest one was 3/4m hammerhead head out of water going nuts.
If you wanna see some and make friends with them...go there. Down south and nsw they seem to be a little more kfc hungry. But what do you expect..the reefs around mindarie and two rocks rockingham mandurah are completely buggered and overfished.95% of mindarie divers have shark shields.....looks quite funny underwater lots of dangly long black things in a circle :-)
Not required up north..

You would have to land on him with his mouth open or spend a lot of time in the water like surfers or divers. . . . . Unlucky u would b as a kiter

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dusta said..
the chances of getting done by a shark while kitesurfing are pretty non-existent . Water is dirty and choppy and generally not shark conditions . If you were supping early morning and it was flat then yes i would poop myself , but not while kiting

So sharks don't like choppy conditions hey wonder what they do then it's like that then maybe just stay indoors and watch tv ??

I really think any chance of being attacked by are shark are minimal at any time and def don't think there is more chance when it's clean and still than dirty and choppy.
I don't think they would notice much difference underwater.
I have surfed, dived, kited or SUPed my whole life and have only ever seen a few.
The only one that really freaked me out was a huge white (at least 4mtrs) whilst 20+ mtrs down diving at the Abrolhos but even that just checked us out and moved on.

Cool tightlines interesting abrolhos story thanks for that
a friend showed me this pic...I quite liked it....


On the day of the 'mega moon'(full).. a friend went to do an adelaide cage dive. V interesting...the day before..... chummed water...sharks everywhere...the day after...chummed water...sharks everywhere...... and ....
That very day (spookie hey??!)..... chummed water....no sharks anywhere....at all..... all three (?) Operators.
That very day.

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tightlines said..

dusta said..
the chances of getting done by a shark while kitesurfing are pretty non-existent . Water is dirty and choppy and generally not shark conditions . If you were supping early morning and it was flat then yes i would poop myself , but not while kiting

So sharks don't like choppy conditions hey wonder what they do then it's like that then maybe just stay indoors and watch tv ??

Exactlty. The truth is that encounters drop significantly when you remove thousands of people from in or on the water once the wind picks up. They are still around.

Going into the sun, it's pretty unlikely you would see much with the glare etc. With the sun behind you, it's a little different but unless you are wearing polarised glasses you'll still only see a few metres around you.

Also keep in mind, unless its a white or tiger, anything under 2.5m just doesn't have the size to really worry about.

Saw a large 4m+ White shark whilst kiting 200m off Tarcoola Beach up in Geraldton a few years back. It was just cruising south. I got a good look at it rising up in the swell and swiftly turned back to play closer to the beach! I don't think it saw me or was interested....They are much blacker than you would imagine, thought it was some sort of whale at first. Nope.

What I want to know is some statistical information on HOW MANY sharks can be found at any one time on a beach through out the day.

We all know sharks exist, but how often are they there?!?!?!?!?

To be honest, every time I am kiting or surfing it feels like there is a shark in the water, maybe not next to me, but somewhere close by... waiting to pick up my electrical rhythms with its ampullae of lorenzini from like 1km away or whatever... sniffing the aromas of my skin cells as soon as I dip my pinky toe in the ocean from a few kilometers away and then it comes rushing towards me, waiting for me to make one false slip on the board so that it can have it's meal... Just incase anyone's interested, I am selling an reel leash, don't be fooled by people when they tell you body dragging is safe from sharks, limited time offer only.




Guy stranded 3km from cott beach in 2013. **** THAT!

They are great pix! ....can you plse edit where they are ?? Particularly second one and last three

Spotted in the paper this morning...

More info here www.google.com.au/url?q=https://amp.smh.com.au/nsw/photo-shows-startled-25metre-shark-in-wave-next-to-10yearold-surfer-20170125-gtynx1.html

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MikeyG said..
Spotted in the paper this morning...

More info here www.google.com.au/url?q=https://amp.smh.com.au/nsw/photo-shows-startled-25metre-shark-in-wave-next-to-10yearold-surfer-20170125-gtynx1.html

25m shark?


25 m....

Maybe if he wasn't so startled I could employ him to get my 10 yr old to clean her room
She can argue with me but wont with a 25m shark. Startled or not.

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timmybuddhadude said..
They are great pix! ....can you plse edit where they are ?? Particularly second one and last three

From memory, second one is photoshopped.
second and third from last were a sequence captured in Esperance a couple of years ago, last one I think is in California (northern) where there are a few places that sup and kayak fisherman/users regularly interact with juvenile whites and post go pro footage.


and in comment on the OP - who cares, they are there. Have seen my share as well. Either get out and enjoy the water and my fate or take up mountain biking is my personal philosophy.

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mazdon said..

timmybuddhadude said..
They are great pix! ....can you plse edit where they are ?? Particularly second one and last three

From memory, second one is photoshopped.
second and third from last were a sequence captured in Esperance a couple of years ago, last one I think is in California (northern) where there are a few places that sup and kayak fisherman/users regularly interact with juvenile whites and post go pro footage.


and in comment on the OP - who cares, they are there. Have seen my share as well. Either get out and enjoy the water and my fate or take up mountain biking is my personal philosophy.

For the philosophy to be true you are going to need to prove "fate" exists. Fate=the development of events outside a person's control, regarded as predetermined by a supernatural power. Maybe you meant fate in the way of "karma" as in your actions result within an effect, the effect in this case being a shark killing you because you decided to go out 500m in to the ocean that day.

And saying who cares is a bit foolish, that is like someone asking "lets look at statistics of how many car crashes there are" and then you in the back ground saying "who cares, lets ****ing smash this thing up". That sort of attitude is one of a soldier who goes quietly to his doom. In other words, I am saying that it is wise to gather up information on how risky an activity is. We know already thought that there aren't many attacks on kitesurfers so it would seem relatively safe, granted you are on your board and not drifting in the ocean.

So therefore the question becomes "how often do kite equipment malfunctions take place?"

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drewpweiner said..

For the philosophy to be true you are going to need to prove "fate" exists. Fate=the development of events outside a person's control, regarded as predetermined by a supernatural power. Maybe you meant fate in the way of "karma" as in your actions result within an effect, the effect in this case being a shark killing you because you decided to go out 500m in to the ocean that day.

And saying who cares is a bit foolish, that is like someone asking "lets look at statistics of how many car crashes there are" and then you in the back ground saying "who cares, lets ****ing smash this thing up". That sort of attitude is one of a soldier who goes quietly to his doom. In other words, I am saying that it is wise to gather up information on how risky an activity is. We know already thought that there aren't many attacks on kitesurfers so it would seem relatively safe, granted you are on your board and not drifting in the ocean.

So therefore the question becomes "how often do kite equipment malfunctions take place?"

fate is also looked upon as something that unavoidably befalls a person; or their lot in life, if they don't feel inclined to go down the supernatural path in their musings. i choose to participate in water sports of a risky nature, in the natural world which can be raw and un-sanitised/risk mitigated. i consider it would be a privilege to die doing something i love. preferably it would be surfing 10 foot bombie in my 80s - but i know that choice is not mine to make. if that makes me a fool from your perspective, then so be it - as i said, i will go out and enjoy these experiences in my life. the people i love and care about acknowledge and accept this.

And saying who cares is a bit foolish, that is like someone asking "lets look at statistics of how many car crashes there are" and then you in the back ground saying "who cares, lets ****ing smash this thing up". - i disagree. i believe it is more akin to saying "lets look at statistics of how many car crashes there are" and then I in the back ground saying "who cares, i accept that i need to drive on certain roads at certain times at certain speeds to get to either, work, great waves, great kite spots - and that i can die but i will take this action to enjoy my life. Driving a metal box past other metal boxes at 100+km/hr is an inherently dangerous activity".
ie - i do not recklessly kite places with no thought for what i will do if **** hits the fan - but this conversation was about sharks, and death by shark is low on my radar compared to line wrap in waves and drowning for example.

So therefore the question becomes "how often do kite equipment malfunctions take place?"
i've had a couple in 10+ years - i kite 70+ days per year. i consider this low odds. but everyone's gear is different or treated different as well.

you seem obsessed with risk. maybe the result of an over analytical mind, maybe you have anxiety from an experience in your formative years, maybe you work in the risk and safety industry. but either way, you have twice now waded into threads on sharks or kiting out to sea and given your point of view for reducing risk. there are a number of contrary opinions (including my own) due to peoples own experiences on this topic, and it would be nice if you could accept that people make their own risk assessments in life, and not just counter our perspectives with more assertions on how we have not given due thought to our decisions and actions.

If you are genuinely concerned for new kiters, maybe post in the newbies section with some advice on how to do a risk assessment based on an individuals ability, equipment, fitness level, location etc. Posting "Sharks!!! Don't ride out more than 100m!!! kiting is SO risky unless you do it in this way!!!" is rudimentary, patronising and pretty annoying otherwise from my perspective. Especially in the WA section.

Apologies to the OP. to get back on track:
Kited near a big fin off busselton one time in a NWer. very random - chicken gybed and ran before i could ID. very black colour though.
tigers and hammerheads galore off exmouth.
long paddle in from chickens due to bronzies at rotto one time.
biggest fin ive ever seen at cobbles one day with my brother (never seen him as scared before or since)

ps. would never really mountain bike - could break my neck

Well said mazdon

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mazdon said..

drewpweiner said..

For the philosophy to be true you are going to need to prove "fate" exists. Fate=the development of events outside a person's control, regarded as predetermined by a supernatural power. Maybe you meant fate in the way of "karma" as in your actions result within an effect, the effect in this case being a shark killing you because you decided to go out 500m in to the ocean that day.

And saying who cares is a bit foolish, that is like someone asking "lets look at statistics of how many car crashes there are" and then you in the back ground saying "who cares, lets ****ing smash this thing up". That sort of attitude is one of a soldier who goes quietly to his doom. In other words, I am saying that it is wise to gather up information on how risky an activity is. We know already thought that there aren't many attacks on kitesurfers so it would seem relatively safe, granted you are on your board and not drifting in the ocean.

So therefore the question becomes "how often do kite equipment malfunctions take place?"

If you are genuinely concerned for new kiters, maybe post in the newbies section with some advice on how to do a risk assessment based on an individuals ability, equipment, fitness level, location etc. Posting "Sharks!!! Don't ride out more than 100m!!! kiting is SO risky unless you do it in this way!!!" is rudimentary, patronising and pretty annoying otherwise from my perspective. Especially in the WA section.

You make the error of thinking that I am giving dispensing advice to people. You are also criticizing me of giving my opinion even though that you yourself are giving your opinion about how wrong I am to give my own opinion, lol. Pot calling the kettle black.

But I know why you do it mazdon, cuz it feels good doesn't it? It feels good to shame other people... to pride yourself that "you know the right and just notions about such things and how we should all proceed on such matters". We all do it, but some of us are aware that we are doing it and some of us *you* aren't. So keep going if you feel like not being aware of your own psychological transgressions, keep feeding the cycle of formulating distorted formulations about how I "preach" when in truth I was merely stated my amazement at the balls of some kiters on this forum and how risky i perceive that to be. It is people like you (and me and majority of others in some scenarios) who are internally un-self satisfied with their self-esteem that they feel the need to put down others by twisting the truth to dominate others in order to feel their opinions (and therefore their self) is worthy of self-appreciation.

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mazdon said..

drewpweiner said..

For the philosophy to be true you are going to need to prove "fate" exists. Fate=the development of events outside a person's control, regarded as predetermined by a supernatural power. Maybe you meant fate in the way of "karma" as in your actions result within an effect, the effect in this case being a shark killing you because you decided to go out 500m in to the ocean that day.

And saying who cares is a bit foolish, that is like someone asking "lets look at statistics of how many car crashes there are" and then you in the back ground saying "who cares, lets ****ing smash this thing up". That sort of attitude is one of a soldier who goes quietly to his doom. In other words, I am saying that it is wise to gather up information on how risky an activity is. We know already thought that there aren't many attacks on kitesurfers so it would seem relatively safe, granted you are on your board and not drifting in the ocean.

So therefore the question becomes "how often do kite equipment malfunctions take place?"

you seem obsessed with risk. maybe the result of an over analytical mind, maybe you have anxiety from an experience in your formative years, maybe you work in the risk and safety industry. but either way, you have twice now waded into threads on sharks or kiting out to sea and given your point of view for reducing risk. there are a number of contrary opinions (including my own) due to peoples own experiences on this topic, and it would be nice if you could accept that people make their own risk assessments in life, and not just counter our perspectives with more assertions on how we have not given due thought to our decisions and actions.

If you are genuinely concerned for new kiters, maybe post in the newbies section with some advice on how to do a risk assessment based on an individuals ability, equipment, fitness level, location etc. Posting "Sharks!!! Don't ride out more than 100m!!! kiting is SO risky unless you do it in this way!!!" is rudimentary, patronising and pretty annoying otherwise from my perspective. Especially in the WA section.

I am obsessed with the pre-dominating characteristics of chance in real-world scenarios, or rather our perception of what we perceive chance to be and whether chance is not a method by which we can explain away intelligent causality onto objects and entities engaged in various processes and interactions with one another. In other words, if your roof gutters fall on your head right as you walk into the house, how can you prove it is a coincidence any more than you can prove it was the product of intelligent intention? Who controls the actions of sharks? Sharks have no autonomy (can be debated neither do humans) and are merely a bundle of self-dependant instinctual programs. Easy enough when it is put like that... but what about the scenario where there is only one shark in a space of 300 square kilometers and it just happens to be where you are kitesurfing that day and then you get out on the water and you trail a path right towards the path of the shark and just as you get over the top of it, your line snaps and you are stuck on top of it and it bites you. Such a scenario is considered "****in unlucky mate"... but in reality, it is absolutely nonsensical to explain the vast improbability of that situation to occur as "purely coincidence" and yet these sorts of coincidences occur all the time in different scenarios all around the world every day and people just put it down to their unexplored notions of "luck" and "chance". So things are deeper than we assume they are, but out of our laziness in reevaluating the ways in which we understand existence to be, we settle for an illogical paradigm that doesn't capture the apparent absurdities of chance events or "freak accidents".

I lost the thread of this
But whoever wrote ' I dont go out more than 500metres' I thought was a bit of an english term 'wally'....your missing the best stuff..its cheaper and easier than boat charters etc and that's how it goes beyond 'surfing'
And whoever wrote dont go any further out that you can swim I thought was cool ......

?...was that the same person?

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tightlines said..

dusta said..
the chances of getting done by a shark while kitesurfing are pretty non-existent . Water is dirty and choppy and generally not shark conditions . If you were supping early morning and it was flat then yes i would poop myself , but not while kiting

So sharks don't like choppy conditions hey wonder what they do then it's like that then maybe just stay indoors and watch tv ??

I really think any chance of being attacked by are shark are minimal at any time and def don't think there is more chance when it's clean and still than dirty and choppy.
I don't think they would notice much difference underwater.
I have surfed, dived, kited or SUPed my whole life and have only ever seen a few.
The only one that really freaked me out was a huge white (at least 4mtrs) whilst 20+ mtrs down diving at the Abrolhos but even that just checked us out and moved on.

Ken how many shark attacks happen when it's blowing 20 knots and the water is all choppy and messed up ?

compared to calm clear conditions at dusk or dawn ?


That was my point . But then again i haven't been around for 90 years

My two cents on the maths of this (As a kitesurfing Actuary I think I can give a fair and balanced opinion)

A lot of speculation above on could this happen, unfortunately it already has:
mobile.abc.net.au/news/2016-09-07/shark-kills-australian-kitesurfer-in-new-caledonia-officials-say/7821020

And it's not just sharks to be mindful of: mobile.abc.net.au/news/2015-05-18/crocodile-attacks-chris-keeping-kitesurfing-near-darwin-beach/6477022

So it's plausible. Risk is about probability of occurrence and consequence of occurrence.
So let's start with probability, original poster asked how many sharks are out there, well there's a lot, sorry dude. www.sharksmart.com.au/shark-activity/ This website publishes sharks spotted and tagged around Perth, I've seen the tracker in safety bay have over 30 detections in a day, now I SUP, Kitesurf, Kayak (often from point Perron to port Kennedy), scuba, etc all in Safety bay, all weather conditions, times of day/night and never once seen a shark. I don't see them, but sharkpatrol and beacons do, they're there. Probability of you coming within 100m of a tiger/great white each time you go out maybe within the 1-5% chance depending on time in water and distance offshore, you cover a lot of distance on your board, sharks cover a lot of distance, we're crossing paths more than we know. But probability of being in the vicinity of a shark does not equal the probability of being eaten by one, think that's where you are worrying yourself, stop watching Jaws. If encounter=death, someone would be eaten daily.

Whats the actual probabilty of being eaten, I propose the following calc, I don't know the exact numbers so I will guesstimate. Number kite surfers x number years kitesurfing on average x number times get out a year x number of hours In each session. Let's say 200,000 worldwide, on average been kiting 3yr, who get out 10times a year for an hour on the water a time, of which only 1 has died, that puts your odds of death by shark while kitesurfing at 1/(200000x3x10x1) or 0.000017% Probabily of being killed by a shark each time you go out. Considering the only person to be bitten was off his board, then you could considerably reduce that risk by not falling off, and because we live in a great white zone increase risk the rating by 500%, which would still make the Perth rating at say 0.000083%.

Now if there is a marine biologist out there who can tell me the number of tigers/ great white in Perth water, and average swim speeds I will do the math to work out probability of intersection of the two vectors, or what's the chances of you kitesurfing over the top of a man eater without knowing.

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dusta said..

tightlines said..

dusta said..
the chances of getting done by a shark while kitesurfing are pretty non-existent . Water is dirty and choppy and generally not shark conditions . If you were supping early morning and it was flat then yes i would poop myself , but not while kiting

So sharks don't like choppy conditions hey wonder what they do then it's like that then maybe just stay indoors and watch tv ??

I really think any chance of being attacked by are shark are minimal at any time and def don't think there is more chance when it's clean and still than dirty and choppy.
I don't think they would notice much difference underwater.
I have surfed, dived, kited or SUPed my whole life and have only ever seen a few.
The only one that really freaked me out was a huge white (at least 4mtrs) whilst 20+ mtrs down diving at the Abrolhos but even that just checked us out and moved on.

Ken how many shark attacks happen when it's blowing 20 knots and the water is all choppy and messed up ?

compared to calm clear conditions at dusk or dawn ?


That was my point . But then again i haven't been around for 90 years

You are right there def seems to be more attacks at dawn or dusk and in nice glassy condition but I would put that down to the fact there is waaaaay more people swimming, surfing, paddling, diving, boating etc when conditions are good.
Have a look at most beaches when it is over 20knots and it usually only Kiters and windsurfers out and they generally don't sit there for hours on end with their legs dangling in the water or paddling around at very slow speeds.
Bottom line is that yep the chances of getting attacked whilst kiting are very very slim IMO

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Jake888 said..
My two cents on the maths of this (As a kitesurfing Actuary I think I can give a fair and balanced opinion)

A lot of speculation above on could this happen, unfortunately it already has:
mobile.abc.net.au/news/2016-09-07/shark-kills-australian-kitesurfer-in-new-caledonia-officials-say/7821020

And it's not just sharks to be mindful of: mobile.abc.net.au/news/2015-05-18/crocodile-attacks-chris-keeping-kitesurfing-near-darwin-beach/6477022

So it's plausible. Risk is about probability of occurrence and consequence of occurrence.
So let's start with probability, original poster asked how many sharks are out there, well there's a lot, sorry dude. www.sharksmart.com.au/shark-activity/ This website publishes sharks spotted and tagged around Perth, I've seen the tracker in safety bay have over 30 detections in a day, now I SUP, Kitesurf, Kayak (often from point Perron to port Kennedy), scuba, etc all in Safety bay, all weather conditions, times of day/night and never once seen a shark. I don't see them, but sharkpatrol and beacons do, they're there. Probability of you coming within 100m of a tiger/great white each time you go out maybe within the 1-5% chance depending on time in water and distance offshore, you cover a lot of distance on your board, sharks cover a lot of distance, we're crossing paths more than we know. But probability of being in the vicinity of a shark does not equal the probability of being eaten by one, think that's where you are worrying yourself, stop watching Jaws. If encounter=death, someone would be eaten daily.

Whats the actual probabilty of being eaten, I propose the following calc, I don't know the exact numbers so I will guesstimate. Number kite surfers x number years kitesurfing on average x number times get out a year x number of hours In each session. Let's say 200,000 worldwide, on average been kiting 3yr, who get out 10times a year for an hour on the water a time, of which only 1 has died, that puts your odds of death by shark while kitesurfing at 1/(200000x3x10x1) or 0.000017% Probabily of being killed by a shark each time you go out. Considering the only person to be bitten was off his board, then you could considerably reduce that risk by not falling off, and because we live in a great white zone increase risk the rating by 500%, which would still make the Perth rating at say 0.000083%.

Now if there is a marine biologist out there who can tell me the number of tigers/ great white in Perth water, and average swim speeds I will do the math to work out probability of intersection of the two vectors, or what's the chances of you kitesurfing over the top of a man eater without knowing.

Interesting post thanks Jake. Like many I get tired of the odds of shark attack being quoted across the whole population rather than that of regular water users. Complete BS.

I reckon we need to expand this calc to shark attack not just fatality though as just a nibble from a large shark can ruin your life even if you live. Also i reckon the 500% loading for perth is waay too low (let alone the south west where i am) given that the vast majority of kiters kite in safe places like the med.

I really miss that feeling of feeling totally safe and serene miles offshore when i kite over there versus the subconcious worry when you find yourself boddydragging offshore here.

Hey Drewpweiner,

Virtually every post you make is loaded with pessimism, fear and self doubt.
It's probably best you find another sport/hobby that doesn't scare the #### out of you.
Just do what you want to do, fate sorts it's self out.

I am pretty damn sure Drewpie is a troll..............for his sake i hope so!!!!

If not i doubt he has to worry about sharks..........
with the amount of negativity he generates nothing would want to come within Cooee.