So a recent discussion on Seabreeze got me thinking about my current bar setup (Core bar 2S) and it's shortcomings.

I am now on the hunt for a bar and lines that has high Y capabilities and looking for recommendations for my Core/Duotone kites.

My research so far:
Core 2S - twisty crap safety release. A PITA and unsafe especially when being used on a rope slider. I like the simplicity of the bar and the standard lines seem to be fine. Love the ability of the centre lines to immediately unwind after looping the kite so really like the ceramic bearing setup.

Core 3S - looks like it may have ironed out the above issue but I don't want to be spending close to $1k on bar and lines.

Duotone Trust - my son uses this setup and I like the bar and the lines, but resetting the chicken loop is a bit of a fiddle by having to pull back the plastic housing to click the loop back in. The other issue is unwinding the centre lines after looping the kite. The bit you have to grab is not particularly easy to hold (limited grip) and it is not a smooth unwinding action and hence tends to stick a bit). Price is fine.

Duotone Click - although I haven't owned this bar, I have used one a fair bit. Seems like there is a few complaints from a previous post about centre line wear. Unwinds automatically after looping.. Don't know much else about it but those that have it tend to really like the click ability of the bar. Personally I rarely ever trim a kite (maybe only a handful of times per season). I do not like trimming a kite much as it always impacts on the flying ability of the kite and I don't like that change. I will fly a kite till it is at its max and then would rather change kites than trim. From this perspective I find the additional cost of buying this bar not worth it. Also has the fiddly reset with the chicken loop, much the same as the Trust. Cost $$$$$$$ - much like the new Core bar.

Switch CX5 - know nothing about it, but the price looks good, has a high Y ability, and chicken loop clicks in (Ozone style). It doesn't seem to have the same instant unwind mechanism of the Core and Duotone Click. Might be heavy??

Anyway, maybe I am chasing too much from a bar but this is the features I'm looking for:
- price competitive (around the $600 - $700)
-click reset for chicken loop
-push away safety
- high Y capability
- quality lines
- automatic unwind of centre lines
- not too heavy


Any ideas out there??

All jokes aside the 3S pro does look the goods,.. maybe Ive fallen for their marketing again

I know right.....ticks all the boxes, just can not justify $900 for the standard bar!!

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Gazuki said..
All jokes aside the 3S pro does look the goods,.. maybe Ive fallen for their marketing again

Can you upgrade the existing bar like Ozone did with their chicken loop/QR upgrades?

I'm really hoping so.

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Gazuki said..
All jokes aside the 3S pro does look the goods,.. maybe Ive fallen for their marketing again

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shi thouse said..
I know right.....ticks all the boxes, just can not justify $900 for the standard bar!!

Yeah bit of a joke. Looks they copied the Airush smart/core bar that came out in 2014 but then added a german price tag. I'm sure it will be typical core quality and be falling apart before the season is over.

wouldnt be surprised if duotone upgrade the trust bar for 2021 to include the click-back-in chicken loop. apprently they are upgrading their lines for 2021. price will probably increase though. its a good bar, can usually pick them up for <$500.
The untwist mechanism certainly has nothing on the core one, i just make sure i try to loop kite both ways and never bother untwisting. the centre lines beneath the split just twist up and hasnt caused me any problems yet, but unsure about how the QR will work if those lines are all twisted. if you could just retrofit the ceramic untwist it would be a great bit of gear

The downside of the auto untwist is more time to rig up. With my click bar I have to make sure I run out all 4 lines. I just need to do the steering lines with my other bar as I can untwist the centre lines as I'm riding.

It sounds a trivial thing but it really bugs you the day you get a twist in the lines and can't fix it.

I have among other bars Core Sensor 2 Pro, and otherwise it would be perfect, BUT I really don't dig the flag out system; how the front lines go when released. If the s hits the fan, you really want the setup to flag out on one line. With their system, there will be some pull for both front lines, especially so if you use kites with longer bridles, or bigger sized kites, so this bar isn't truly universal. I guess for the model 3 this is still the same, unfortunately, with the price tag :)

I have honestly never ever had an issue with my CORE bars except for the velcro for the depower falling off and other small annoying things like the pro bar being black and white and occasionally during rotations or loops or whatever you pull the wrong side cause it takes you more then 1ms to figure out which side is right and left. I really wish they just kept the pro bar yellow and white as well. got a 2s+ as a spare bar and been using it lately as I sold some of my old quiver with the new nexus and so much easier to tell in that insta moment. In regards to the safety Im so used to the twist that it's natural to me but I guess I can see why people complain about it if they are not used to it.But in nuking winds the twist is a lot easier to release then the push in my opinion. but a univeral setup I guess is a win for everyone used to push. I guess I just have to get used to it as well.

same thing with it flagging out, used it in everything from 15 to 60 knots. (caught in a proper squall)
Never had any issues with it.

Looking forward to my new sensor 3 pro to arrive though.

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weebitbreezy said..
The downside of the auto untwist is more time to rig up. With my click bar I have to make sure I run out all 4 lines. I just need to do the steering lines with my other bar as I can untwist the centre lines as I'm riding.

It sounds a trivial thing but it really bugs you the day you get a twist in the lines and can't fix it.

When you pack up, lark's head the steering line to the center line on that side. When you walk them out, they self-sort.

Take a look at the Reedin dream stick, looks good, swivel and click in. Low v however.

The OR bar' I had a close checkout' made the north one look cheap in comparison ' not sure high /low Y position' though' the tap depower is very clever' ive heard of no issues compared to the others as its fully open mechanism to flush clean

Ocean Rodeo and Liquid Force share the same back lines adjustable bar, which is easily converted to high-Y by adding the adjustable splitter:
Actually one can add the splitter to any low-V bar I guess.

I am loving my Cabrinha trimlite bars. The North Navigator bar is almost identical (funny about that).

Everything works really well.
The components are very good (work well and last. My current bar has 380 hours on it and now doing some rework on it).
The bars can be bought quite cheaply (buy last years model. Upgrade with new components over time).
All the parts are easily replaceable and fairly cheap (bungies, leaders, centrelines, trimmer fittings)
It's easy to swap in parts from other manufacturers without too much effort.
Very easy to customise (I made a super long trimmer bar for foiling. Now working on a trimless bar with a 70cm bar throw)

I think it's easy to splice in a ring to make a bar high-Y. Some manufacturers sell high-Y kits for their bars. Not sure why you would deliberately want a high-Y. It hugely overcomplicates everything, unless you have a high-Y kite that doesn't work with a low-Y.

My kite mate has an OR Shift bar and likes it very much. He does covet my 90cm of bar and trim travel. I always rig to oversheet then just pull in a shedload of trimmer as the wind rises.

I just got a Reedin dreamstick bar and its epic.... lots of detail has gone into increase reliability and removing any wearing areas.
Looks similiar to the new core bar.

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glasstraxx said..
I just got a Reedin dreamstick bar and its epic.... lots of detail has gone into increase reliability and removing any wearing areas.
Looks similiar to the new core bar.

Pics? Good ones, not advertising fluff, like a 1K image of a handle pass in the tastefully-lit distance...

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cauncy said..

The OR bar' I had a close checkout' made the north one look cheap in comparison ' not sure high /low Y position' though' the tap depower is very clever' ive heard of no issues compared to the others as its fully open mechanism to flush clean

I have both. The Y Split point on my shift bar is about 75cm lower than the North so pretty comparable. Lines are totally different although the North pigtails (needs different length pigtails as you can't invidually trim the lines under the floats anymore) don't tangle so much when separating the lines.

Overall I prefer my North click bar.

1. Its just easier to change the trim with the North bar. With the shift bar you have to grip the winder pretty firmly and its way more difficult to add trim whilst riding. Its easier with the click bar to drop power on the trim too. I'd say its similar to the difference between below and above the bar trim in turns of use whilst riding. Both work but one is just easier.
2. Its a fat old bar and I don't have big hands. Warm weather I like it but cold weather with gloves - its a bit too fat. If you have shovels for hands then you'll probably be on the other side (I have a friend that prefers this to the core bar because that's too thin and weedy for him so he feels he's riding around with clenched fists all the time)
3. The visual display of trim in the middle is actually a good thing. Yes I can kind of work out from the floats how much trim I have but its not as good (its like going back to a normal speedo when you get used to a HUD in a car. You wonder why its even legal to be taking your eyes off the road to check speed)

With upgraded lines I'd possibly say the click bar would be the choice to go for (second hand click bar with new lines) but as you can see, its pretty minor reasons that I prefer one over the other.

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Kamikuza said..

glasstraxx said..
I just got a Reedin dreamstick bar and its epic.... lots of detail has gone into increase reliability and removing any wearing areas.
Looks similiar to the new core bar.

Pics? Good ones, not advertising fluff, like a 1K image of a handle pass in the tastefully-lit distance...

haven't undone it yet but see below...i'm only comparing to the old Niash Torque bar and they have really improved it..

includes 22 +m extensions + detachable pig tails (old naish lines had terribly made larks loops)
ceramic bearing
the spliter, cleat look clean and they have used extra plastic coating to protect the non safety center line to avoid from wear
looks like it also has an adjustable stopper for shorter reach
the safety mechanism looks pretty clean and you can service the parts.
the safety line is separate to middle lines and they both feed through the bar and won't wear
the safety line has a bungee on the end and a nice big loop for riding suicide
leash is a front short leash which some people may not prefer, but i guess you could attach your own for passes etc.

www.instagram.com/p/CBL5y8zjkVW/

Here you go :D

One of the guys has just bought a Switch CX5 bar - I'll let yous know what the real deal is when I see it.

The Reedin quick release is the exact same one as on the SwitchKites CX5 (and Star Kites and probably others). The Reedin has a pu covered safety and the bar has the Core style auto untwist with adjustable bar width ... but in essence all the exact same bar components as the CX5... same quick release chickenloop ,same depower cleat/system, same frontline splitter/flagout bracket.
All bars look nice and have solid design behind them.
I dont know what the lines on the Reedin are like but tbe ones on the CX5 are awesome.

Can't beat the ozone ones. You don't get auto unwind but what's the issue takes to seconds to manually untwist it or just do your tricks both directions. The bigger handle on the ozone absorbs more vibration from the kite so smoother riding and less tennis elbow chance. Don't get hung up on the high y thing. The core kites fly Fine on a low y despite what core would have you believe so they can continue to sell their bars. Sold my pro 2 bar cause the lines were the same colour and harder to self land, way more vibration through the bar especially in gusty conditions so more fidgety feeling. Also smaller kites flew better on the low y as opens the wing out a little so makes them more stable. Try it!

Hey shi thouse, I've been using the range of Ozone bars since the 2012 and this year got a Duotone Click 2021 version. It's a bit more costly than others but I've enjoyed the change, it's got a much nicer feel in the hands but the ease of use for depower and untwist is worth the extra coin to me, they've changed the centre line setup to prevent wear and it's looking ok so far. I'm using it as a low-v with Ozone Edge's and haven't had to mess with the trim yet, I'll see how that goes. It took a bit to get used to the flat/rectangular centreline PU movement through the bar because it doesn't just slide through like the Ozone's and I'm keeping an eye on the flagout line wear through there, looks good so far. The lines aren't clean like Ozone, I think it's because the five line setup, there's stitching and loops everywhere making it a bit of a pain to run lines out, slow & steady there, but I do miss the simplicity of the Ozone lines.
I borrowed a friend's OR and enjoyed using that too.
Happy to give you a shot if you're down at the local mate.
Cheers

new slingshot bar is worth a look as well. we tried it back to back with reedin and the only diference is the slingshot is much thicker and is black to help with discoloration of the reedin pristine white (core will suffer aswell). some may prefer the fat stick...i didnt though but probably because im used to newer skinny naish bars. side note, ive also ordered some parts for me dreamstick bar, flag out and a depower line to replace eventual, both came to half the usual price from naish. would definately factor this in to your decision...
as for the bar itself its held up fairly well, ive used the saftey a few times and its worked fine, bit of scratchs/wear on the PU line (bar centre is fine) but its to be expected i guess, pig tail and the lines themselves are fine. bar still auto twists as good as it did when i first got it...

As with the Reedin the Slingshot uses all the same components as the Ikon Convert V4/Switch kites CX5, with variations including auto untwist and PU covered safety line. Only real difference is they are double the price.

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snalberski said..
As with the Reedin the Slingshot uses all the same components as the Ikon Convert V4/Switch kites CX5, with variations including auto untwist and PU covered safety line. Only real difference is they are double the price.

Does the Ikon Convert have the untwist thing like the Core bar?

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psychojoe said..

snalberski said..
As with the Reedin the Slingshot uses all the same components as the Ikon Convert V4/Switch kites CX5, with variations including auto untwist and PU covered safety line. Only real difference is they are double the price.

Does the Ikon Convert have the untwist thing like the Core bar?

No. I've never used a bar with auto untwist (that actually worked). My option would always be to go with a cleaner design incorporating less points of failure or malfunction. Untwisting your front lines is such an easy and automatic thing that I deliberately avoid that auto untwist bar design. I see that design as having a high potential for binding, especially when fishpoling hard. In addition requiring the flag out safety line to travel through a PU tube is to me destined for a potentially fatal failure.

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snalberski said..

psychojoe said..

snalberski said..
As with the Reedin the Slingshot uses all the same components as the Ikon Convert V4/Switch kites CX5, with variations including auto untwist and PU covered safety line. Only real difference is they are double the price.

Does the Ikon Convert have the untwist thing like the Core bar?

No. I've never used a bar with auto untwist (that actually worked). My option would always be to go with a cleaner design incorporating less points of failure or malfunction. Untwisting your front lines is such an easy and automatic thing that I deliberately avoid that auto untwist bar design. I see that design as having a high potential for binding, especially when fishpoling hard. In addition requiring the flag out safety line to travel through a PU tube is to me destined for a potentially fatal failure.

Flysurfer Infinity bars worked perfectly, although the v1 needed a bearing thingy put in then it was perfect.

After several years of not ever having to untwist front lines, and now a couple of having to do it manually, it really bugs me and I'm looking at auto-untwist bars again.

And having to untwist manually is a result of the single front line safety, which is IMO the point of failure on these bars.

And if you need to sheet out so much when you're in the middle of fish pole-ing the bar, I think you need to ask yourself why you need to loop that hard in the first place

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Kamikuza said..

snalberski said..

psychojoe said..

snalberski said..
As with the Reedin the Slingshot uses all the same components as the Ikon Convert V4/Switch kites CX5, with variations including auto untwist and PU covered safety line. Only real difference is they are double the price.

Does the Ikon Convert have the untwist thing like the Core bar?

No. I've never used a bar with auto untwist (that actually worked). My option would always be to go with a cleaner design incorporating less points of failure or malfunction. Untwisting your front lines is such an easy and automatic thing that I deliberately avoid that auto untwist bar design. I see that design as having a high potential for binding, especially when fishpoling hard. In addition requiring the flag out safety line to travel through a PU tube is to me destined for a potentially fatal failure.

Flysurfer Infinity bars worked perfectly, although the v1 needed a bearing thingy put in then it was perfect.

After several years of not ever having to untwist front lines, and now a couple of having to do it manually, it really bugs me and I'm looking at auto-untwist bars again.

And having to untwist manually is a result of the single front line safety, which is IMO the point of failure on these bars.

And if you need to sheet out so much when you're in the middle of fish pole-ing the bar, I think you need to ask yourself why you need to loop that hard in the first place

I dont what you mean by
"And if you need to sheet out so much when you're in the middle of fish pole-ing the bar, I think you need to ask yourself why you need to loop that hard in the first place"
I can't even work out how you have interprated that I sheet out when looping. The possible binding I was referring to is on initiation of a kiteloop. I've never used a Core or Flysurfer style split center hole bar so I don't know weather or not they would bind for me, in the way I use a control bar. It does however make sense to me that putting a 2mm divider in the centre hole reduces that holes unobstructed clearance by 2mm... I like big holes.
I've never noted anyone complaining that their Core or Flysurfer or Reedin bars bind when they initiate a fishpole kiteloop but like I said, I like big holes.

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snalberski said..

psychojoe said..

snalberski said..
As with the Reedin the Slingshot uses all the same components as the Ikon Convert V4/Switch kites CX5, with variations including auto untwist and PU covered safety line. Only real difference is they are double the price.

Does the Ikon Convert have the untwist thing like the Core bar?

No. I've never used a bar with auto untwist (that actually worked). My option would always be to go with a cleaner design incorporating less points of failure or malfunction. Untwisting your front lines is such an easy and automatic thing that I deliberately avoid that auto untwist bar design. I see that design as having a high potential for binding, especially when fishpoling hard. In addition requiring the flag out safety line to travel through a PU tube is to me destined for a potentially fatal failure.

I got the new naish bar and it auto untwists, when i first got this bar i was pissed at how much it cost, but since have grown to love it and is now my favourite bar that i have ever
used. Bar looks like nothing special but everything just works and does it really well, i was really surprised how smooth it is because it is just rope no pu coating, slides amazingly smooth.