Why do I always see loads of kites in the sky when it is windy as opposed to 5-15 knots?

Is there something unfashionable about large kites?

It is unfashionable when they tumble out of the sky. . . . Unless u r foiling

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4XL said..
It is unfashionable when they tumble out of the sky. . . . Unless u r foiling

No, I mean... why isn't a 15 or 17 the standard kite size instead of 9-12? It seems everyone just prefers riding a 9 in 15-20 knots rather than a larger kite in lighter conditions.

Because sub 15 is typically lawning mowing on a TT/monster lei.

After a while it becomes boring.

The fun starts 16+ for many.

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drewpweiner said..
Why do I always see loads of kites in the sky when it is windy as opposed to 5-15 knots?

Is there something unfashionable about large kites?

In Australia, especially in WA, kiters are used to having strong winds on a nearly daily basis so most really can't be bothered going on in sub 15 knots. Most Perth kiters don't even own light wind equipment. It's all about what you're used to.

I flew to Canada last year and as soon as the wind hits 10-12 knots, they consider that a good day and everyone goes out! if it hits 15 knots everyone goes crazy and raves about how good the day was! Also every kiter in Canada has light wind equipment, big kites, big boards.

In perth, below 18 knots kite beaches are practically empty, but hey, if you enjoy light winds, knock yourself out.

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Plummet said..
Because sub 15 is typically lawning mowing on a TT/monster lei.

After a while it becomes boring.

The fun starts 16+ for many.

Yes but that would only be on a 12m kite and below. If you ride a 15m kite in below 15 knots it is just the same so why don't I see more ppl doing that?

IE:

9m kite in 20knt winds = 15km/h

the same as

17m kite in 10knt winds = 15km/h

So why does everyone mainly ride 9-12m kites?

Sorry thread title was a bit inaccurate.

So can I ask as a newbie and still trying to get on the board,are light winds and larger kites a bad idea for me to be learning on, as I am lead to believe it would just make things harder?
I must admit I did buy a "light wind" kite (15m) whilst I was still having lessons. But I dont think that I would drag it out ever. I am using a 12m kite to learn on at the moment.

no light wind kite and light wind board will teach you better technique as you will have to work to keep the kite in the air and your board planning as opposed to just hanging on and boosting

drew p topic starter lol... always known light / variable wind needs special skills and can be as dangerous as strong wind, kite down, cant relaunch, drown or get smashed on rocks, has happened unfortunately, a good 12/14m big board / sb shld be all you need these days... unless you are on #foil woops

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ajs18s said..
So can I ask as a newbie and still trying to get on the board,are light winds and larger kites a bad idea for me to be learning on, as I am lead to believe it would just make things harder?

When learning you need more power than normal as you will have inefficient body position, inefficient edge control, inefficient starting technique, etc. To compensate, look to go out with a kite a couple of meters bigger than what the average kiter is flying. For that reason your "light wind" kite is a good buy as it will get you going quite well on the 15-20 days. Once you're up and going all the time, your light wind kite extends your range down further to get out more often (another big plus for learning).

Why? Well some people are happy driving a hyundia excel

Others just love a V8.

Personally I don't mind what you drive, or where you swim

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pmk said..
drew p topic starter lol... always known light / variable wind needs special skills and can be as dangerous as strong wind, kite down, cant relaunch, drown or get smashed on rocks, has happened unfortunately, a good 12/14m big board / sb shld be all you need these days... unless you are on #foil woops

Ok thanks for the info so I have noticed that when the wind drops down to around 10 knots my 10m kite just falls out of the sky really easily... DOES THAT MEAN THE SAME THING WILL HAPPEN ON A 15M KITE? Is that what you mean by you need "special skills"?

I thought the more surface area the kite had, the easier it would stay up in the air.

It is really hard to get going on my 10 metre kite in around 12-15 knots but once I am up then I am flying along... it is just starting up and getting the momentum that is so fricken hard!

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VRBones said..

ajs18s said..
So can I ask as a newbie and still trying to get on the board,are light winds and larger kites a bad idea for me to be learning on, as I am lead to believe it would just make things harder?

When learning you need more power than normal as you will have inefficient body position, inefficient edge control, inefficient starting technique, etc. To compensate, look to go out with a kite a couple of meters bigger than what the average kiter is flying. For that reason your "light wind" kite is a good buy as it will get you going quite well on the 15-20 days. Once you're up and going all the time, your light wind kite extends your range down further to get out more often (another big plus for learning).

Ok thanks for the info so I have noticed that when the wind drops down to around 10 knots my 10m kite just falls out of the sky really easily... DOES THAT MEAN THE SAME THING WILL HAPPEN ON A 15M KITE? Is that what you mean by you need "special skills"? I thought the more surface area the kite had, the easier it would stay up in the air. It is really hard to get going on my 10 metre kite in around 12-15 knots but once I am up then I am flying along... it is just starting up and getting the momentum that is so fricken hard!

Build a bigger kite and you need more material which results in a heavier kite. Heavier kite will stall and fall from the sky more easily unless flown to maintain power (lift).

So - Yes - a big kite will often fall out of the sky at a very similar wind to a small kite.
So why have big kites at all? Because you can generate more power.
Why do I need more power? Because you might be a BIG person who needs more power than a small child.
So why are big kites sold as light wind then? Well you can tune the kite to sit further back in the window. This means that rather than stalling forwards, they drift back and power up to keep them in the sky.
That sounds amazing. Why don't all kites do that? Because it makes it difficult to ride upwind. The kite powers up pretty quickly but because it never moves to the edge of the window you are always fighting to pull the kite upwind with you.

"Special skills" are the skills needed to get back upwind in light wind. In lots of wind you can have pony technique and charge upwind. In light wind you need to balance everything to achieve the same result. Dive the kite and you need to steer downwind a little to maintain speed whilst the kite climbs back up again. Drop the kite too low and your weight starts to act through the board instead of being supported by the kite. Edge too far upwind and you'll lose speed and apparent wind. All of these things will result in a loss of ground and mucho walking.

Some people enjoy the challenge of low wind. They also like warm beer. The payoff of low wind is small compared to the high adrenaline fix of big air (Note the big air hangtime guys fly 18m kites in 20knots)

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drewpweiner said..

Plummet said..
Because sub 15 is typically lawning mowing on a TT/monster lei.

After a while it becomes boring.

The fun starts 16+ for many.

Yes but that would only be on a 12m kite and below. If you ride a 15m kite in below 15 knots it is just the same so why don't I see more ppl doing that?

IE:

9m kite in 20knt winds = 15km/h

the same as

17m kite in 10knt winds = 15km/h

So why does everyone mainly ride 9-12m kites?

Sorry thread title was a bit inaccurate.

Its not the same. You have to have good technique and you wont be jumping as high.
The big monster kites are slower and more boring to fly. Its not a linear curve either. As the wind speed increases with forces applied to the kite is a function of the wind speed squared. So 20 knots way more than double the force of 10 knots.

A big kite doesn't give you that much more lower end maybe 1 or 2 knots. So why bother with the big kite if it only adds a couple of knots?
Plus the wind range of the big kite is a lot lower.

10m low end 15 knots powered zone 18-25 knots (standard board and 80kg rider)
12m low end 13 knots powered zone 16-22
17m low end 11 knots powered zone 15-18

So the 17m might give you some extra lawn mowing 11-13 knots, That's a lot of money for mowing of lawns!
why bother?

Your basic assumptions are wrong. It's not a linear relationship.

Simplistically, power varies as the square of wind speed so halve the wind and you need 4 times the size of kite. Except, a bigger kite is heavier and slower and more expensive. All that introduces a myriad of complexities.

The correct answer to light wind riding is more efficiency. Lighter kites, more skilled riders, raceboards and doors, and now hydrofoils.

The other answer is, you're just not at the beach when light wind riders are out. We do a fair bit of light wind riding and the beach is often deserted.

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cbulota said..

I flew to Canada last year and as soon as the wind hits 10-12 knots, they consider that a good day and everyone goes out! if it hits 15 knots everyone goes crazy and raves about how good the day was!

That's exactly what it's like up here in FNQ - Cairns and Townsville

I got a 17m and a surfboard as am keen to get out as much as possible. Am a desk jockey during the week. So I pay a premium to adapt my gear to the conditions since the weekend is the only time I can get out. The 17m pulls like a truck and it earned its price one sunny day - flat water and I was the only person out. More water t Me means faster learning and more fun...

You guys make this sport so easy to learn.
I understand that a bigger kite would be slower to turn ect ect,
But heavier, of course but curious does anyone know the actual weight difference between say 8m vs 16m same brand kite. Is it that much? As everyone says low wind kites are so much heavier.

I weighed a couple of my kites (can't remember the exact figures) and the wing loading (weight/area) of the big kite was less than the small kite.

Thing is, weight only matters in light wind. When your kite is stuck at the edge of the window and you're tweaking it like crazy to get it to drift back and power up then you really want something light and agile.

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KiteAddicted said..
I got a 17m and a surfboard as am keen to get out as much as possible. Am a desk jockey during the week. So I pay a premium to adapt my gear to the conditions since the weekend is the only time I can get out. The 17m pulls like a truck and it earned its price one sunny day - flat water and I was the only person out. More water t Me means faster learning and more fun...

Sweeet! What kite?

I confess, I love the challenge of light winds. I've tried big kites but find them boring. It's a matter of finding the right combination of body weight, kite size and board size.
For light winds the kite needs to light and fast so it can be thrown around and build apparent wind.
The board should be flat with a lot of area.
For me at 64kgs I use a 10m surf kite and a Shinnster. If I can launch the kite unassisted I will stay on the plane upwind.

I love learning new tricks on big kites. You don't get hurt as much and they don't zoom all over the place. Big kites are awsome for freestyle

It's a lithium zero. Got a bad reputation when overpowered (over 12k) and difficult to push upwind. I just pick my days carefully.check out YouTube for clips of it being used...a light wind board can be a cheaper longer lasting investment...good luck!

The above, with a big kite, brought technique (way beyond kite control in light winds), strength and power, speed, but most importantly the potential for carnage to my light wind riding.

**must be coupled with good income protection**

+1 for light wind.

I personally love light wind ..... 10 knots and I am going on a Crazfly door or my 23inch Fish with 17m Cloud........ But the winner hands down for me is a foil board and the Cloud. I think I am down to 7 or 8 knots heading up wind (on the 17m Cloud, with apparent wind, I easily get over-powered).

Not sure that Greg Drexler was specifically aiming for the lightest strutless kite on the market, but he achieved it. I think 17m is around 2.5kg.

The desirables for me in light wind are light weight, good turning, reasonable fly speed.

Bunch of the guys at my local are also flying LF Solo's and Ozone Zephr's, and they certainly have some grunt and are good light wind kites.

Or use the same kites you have now and get one of these.

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Plummet said..
Or use the same kites you have now and get one of these.

What would happen if that fin thing hit a shark?

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drewpweiner said..

Plummet said..
Or use the same kites you have now and get one of these.

What would happen if that fin thing hit a shark?

A pissed off shark!

You've got a bit of everything in this thread - all of which are true- its harder, more expensive, requires specialized equipment, can be boring.

But I froth for light wind sessions, in fact recently I've started looking at green arrows (18+ = knots ) and deciding I just cant be bothered to go kiting as it's too much hard work (very un-west Australian of me). Give me 5-15 knots any time !

Of course i am a mad keen foiler - in fact I prefer foil on foil action if possible. With my hydrofoil and race kites I can ride at 3x the wind speed a meter above the water. Being above the surface means its quiet and smooth, and i can see thru the surface to see what's happening below. To each to their own i guess ...

This is why