Typically I sorta do a controlled crash landing of the kite when I self land, which works rather well. But I was looking into a slightly 'smoother' way of self-landing.
Found this video and was wondering what you guys think of it. Especially of the 1st way that's presented (i.e. completely ejecting the kite and walking up the front lines).
Is that a good idea? If you let go of the kite, it would be gone. At the same time, I'm not a fan of the 2nd option with the bar dragging through the sand unnecessarily.



Any better ways to do it?

The following one seems better to me with less wear on the gear.

Tethered self launch and land as shown in the second vid is definitely safest and best way to go...but not always available

I use method 1 in the first vid with one major difference...i always walk upwind while going up the front lines...

This tends to force the leading edge towards the ground and keep it more controlled.....

It's important to note that in both those vids, it is no where near 30knts....

and in that strength i would probably opt to pull QR1 and let it flag out

Seems to me option 1 self land in the jake guys vid reasonably solid pulling kite straight into the wind, walk up hand over hand holding the leading edge into the wind.

Why is that ok to work in 15 knots but not recommended for 30 or even 50 knots?

Dont worry Im sure my simple logic is flawed and understand it would be pretty dam scary. But would like to hear the list of elements likely to make it high risk.

If it blowing 25/30 knots, and no one is around, just pull QR1.

The problem with self landing in those wind strengths is only getting the job half done. You can quickly do yourself serious damage if the kite relaunches without line tension/control.

The guys down at my local, normaly just get a nice bit of space around them undo the leash put the kite to 12 take the donkey dick out, grab the centre lines and pull like there watching Pam and Tommy go for it. They then un do the chicken loop as the kite floats to the ground briskly walk over and catch it. I've only seen 16 incidents where people were nearly hurt :-) my two cents worth is get a mate or a leash saves all the hassle :-) oh and never go in dry that's the latest :-)

Interesting timing, I was just finishing editing a video about tethered launching and landing, which I've decided to share for free, and here it is!



As mentioned above, tethered launching and landing is a great option but it isn't always available/possible.

When not using a tether, I rarely see kiters really mastering self-landing and rarely see it done safely either.

Whatever method you use it must always be safe and you must be able to get consistent results regardless of the wind conditions. All the tutorials I've watched are either oversimplified or skip over some important details that can make a huge difference in real life.

Below are my self-landing and self-launching videos:





Safe Kiting,

Christian

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Richoa said..
Seems to me option 1 self land in the jake guys vid reasonably solid pulling kite straight into the wind, walk up hand over hand holding the leading edge into the wind.

Why is that ok to work in 15 knots but not recommended for 30 or even 50 knots?

Dont worry Im sure my simple logic is flawed and understand it would be pretty dam scary. But would like to hear the list of elements likely to make it high risk.

As the wind increases, the weight of your kite relative to the wind power becomes far less, so relying on the kite falling from a stall position becomes more risky compared to a random gust providing enough power to launch/flip/invert. It is also more risky that even if your kite lands on the beach, that's not to say that it won't be blown backwards / relaunch. Imagine if you are setting up your kite in 30Kn and DIDN'T weight down your kite (sand/harness/board). Would you feel confident that the kite will stay where it is? What about 50Kn?

One thing that Jake doesn't really make clear is that you want to pull the leading edge down so fast that the wind blows onto the top of the canopy forcing the kite down rather than being just in a stall. You can see in the reverse camera angle at 1:45 that once the wind hits the top of the canopy the kite quickly goes to ground. You want that to occur ASAP by pulling quickly and downward. This helps with stronger winds because you are using the wind's power to drop the kite, but the timing and speed become even more critical to get the kite into the right downward shape before being flipped.

The main risk with this technique is that the kite rolls. Since you have tension on only one line, if the kite attempts to fly it will roll about the single line and usually land upside down but way further downwind in the power zone. Hanging onto one line is far better than hanging onto 2 so that the kite will flag out as much as possible, but you can still lose fingers if it powers up (lines/bridle tangled, lines/bridle caught on obstacle, deathroll,etc). Be prepared to drop it and punch out.

I'm with Christian, consistent results is key. Practice builds consistency & confidence. Even pulling QR is somewhat uncontrolled if you haven't been through what your kite does in that position / wind strength.

Walking up the lines is just plain silly on high gusty wind 30+knots.


If the yank then pull top line method doesn't work and teathering isn't an option I just pull the safety.

I think the key to this discussion is the wind speed. Self-land is easy in lighter winds, say up to 20 knots and less dependent on a refined technique. Which is why all those videos don't help that much. None of them are filmed in strong winds. Anything above 20 kn and it becomes a lot more challenging and more dependent on skill and the right technique.

I don't necessarily want to make myself dependent on other kiters at the beach, especially if I don't feel like finishing my session yet as it gets into the evening and people start to leave. So I'd like to learn the best technique for stronger winds when no one is around to help.

One time I had to pull my safety and the kite still had a fair bit of pull, so much so that my safety line ripped and I had to chase down my kite.
It gave me quite the scare and since then I don't really want to rely on pulling the safety as the only way to self-land the kite (other than as last resort ofc).

Ive only seen one guy safety release on the beach, I noticed he laid down on his back feet toward the kite and then hit the release. This was my first day watching a couple of guys and moment I thought im going to give this a crack!

Wondering is that a taught technique to reduce risk?

The few times Ive safety released on the water ( mainly to get a feel and auto thought pattern happening) the kite did I guess what is called a flag out, sat for second then relifted and then sat back down. Seemed during whole process no pressure on myself from the kite although I was pretty tense in anticipation of something, didn't know what!!!
What are the possible "oh bugger this isn't going to plan" things to look out for in QR release and hit 2nd release. obviously being dragged at rate of knots is a give away. But looking at a split second or two before the worst case scenario hits. Is there such opportunity to spot it?

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Richoa said..
Ive only seen one guy safety release on the beach, I noticed he laid down on his back feet toward the kite and then hit the release. This was my first day watching a couple of guys and moment I thought im going to give this a crack!

Wondering is that a taught technique to reduce risk?

The few times Ive safety released on the water ( mainly to get a feel and auto thought pattern happening) the kite did I guess what is called a flag out, sat for second then relifted and then sat back down. Seemed during whole process no pressure on myself from the kite although I was pretty tense in anticipation of something, didn't know what!!!
What are the possible "oh bugger this isn't going to plan" things to look out for in QR release and hit 2nd release. obviously being dragged at rate of knots is a give away. But looking at a split second or two before the worst case scenario hits. Is there such opportunity to spot it?

As you pull the QR you will have noticed that the bar moves far away from you. In effect the two back lines to which your bar is connected to will flag out the kite and there is no power on your kite anymore. There is no need to lie on the ground or anything like that. My recommendation would be to lower the kite close to the ground before pulling the QR so it doesn't drop so high out of the sky and comes to a rest quicker with less wear to the kite.
Just make sure you've got plenty of space directly downwind from you as this is where the kite will go to once flagged.

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Kajo said..
I think the key to this discussion is the wind speed. Self-land is easy in lighter winds, say up to 20 knots and less dependent on a refined technique. Which is why all those videos don't help that much. None of them are filmed in strong winds. Anything above 20 kn and it becomes a lot more challenging and more dependent on skill and the right technique.

Hi Kajo, I don't think you have watched my self-landing video. I shot it in winds above 20 knots, and my older videos showed safe self-landings in 30 knots winds.

Technique is everything and as I said above, that's where other videos fall short and yes they are all shot in lower winds.

I've taught countless people to self land using the technique highlighted in my video and strong winds (even 35 knots) are no issues whatsoever, provided you are using a Delta or Bow Kite. Much more difficult on C-Kites.

Christian

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Kajo said..

One time I had to pull my safety and the kite still had a fair bit of pull, so much so that my safety line ripped and I had to chase down my kite.

Sounds like your safety system doesn't work so well, and that's a major concern

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cbulota said..

Kajo said..

One time I had to pull my safety and the kite still had a fair bit of pull, so much so that my safety line ripped and I had to chase down my kite.

Sounds like your safety system doesn't work so well, and that's a major concern

I got the safety line replaced and it's been ok since then.

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cbulota said..

Kajo said..
I think the key to this discussion is the wind speed. Self-land is easy in lighter winds, say up to 20 knots and less dependent on a refined technique. Which is why all those videos don't help that much. None of them are filmed in strong winds. Anything above 20 kn and it becomes a lot more challenging and more dependent on skill and the right technique.

Hi Kajo, I don't think you have watched my self-landing video. I shot it in winds above 20 knots, and my older videos showed safe self-landings in 30 knots winds.

Technique is everything and as I said above, that's where other videos fall short and yes they are all shot in lower winds.

I've taught countless people to self land using the technique highlighted in my video and strong winds (even 35 knots) are no issues whatsoever, provided you are using a Delta or Bow Kite. Much more difficult on C-Kites.

Christian

I haven't watched the paid videos yet if that's the ones you mean, the full video only shows tethered.

I can vouch for Christians methods. I am still probably a terrible self lander but his methods are safe which is what is important to me in over 20 knots.

I think I learned using Christian's older videos. From memory he showed different methods for 4 and 5 line kites and different methods for single and dual line flagging. If those are the ones I am thinking of, they were very well made and clear.

Pull down the top middle line and try land it. if you cant try quick release.

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jamesperth said..
I can vouch for Christians methods. I am still probably a terrible self lander but his methods are safe which is what is important to me in over 20 knots.

James, what ways do you recommend self-landing (launching is easy) a foil kite?

At our local, we have a dip in the sand area behind the dunes and we land it along the edge of the wind-window low enough for the kite to loose all power, as the wind doesn't hit it, and simply retrieve and roll the kite. But that's because we're in the best place in the world to kite surf!

This seems to be another great way to do a tethered landing if you don't have a 2nd leash.
I suppose the only dangerous moment is a sudden kite launch while taking off your own leash to tether it to something sturdy.

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Kajo said..
This seems to be another great way to do a tethered landing if you don't have a 2nd leash.

In On-Shore winds with obstacles everywhere in the wind window ...textbook of how to damage your kite ! Not to mention he's in suicide mode on the beach and has to detach completely from his leash for some time.

Dimitri is a stuntman and an impressive talented kiter but most of the time a terrible example to follow for newbies

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weebitbreezy said..
I think I learned using Christian's older videos. From memory he showed different methods for 4 and 5 line kites and different methods for single and dual line flagging. If those are the ones I am thinking of, they were very well made and clear.

Thanks weebitbreezy

the old video has since been replaced with my new videos. The method has been simplified so that it works no matter the type of safety system you have and is safe no matter the wind conditions.

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cbulota said..

Kajo said..
I think the key to this discussion is the wind speed. Self-land is easy in lighter winds, say up to 20 knots and less dependent on a refined technique. Which is why all those videos don't help that much. None of them are filmed in strong winds. Anything above 20 kn and it becomes a lot more challenging and more dependent on skill and the right technique.

Hi Kajo, I don't think you have watched my self-landing video. I shot it in winds above 20 knots, and my older videos showed safe self-landings in 30 knots winds.

Technique is everything and as I said above, that's where other videos fall short and yes they are all shot in lower winds.

I've taught countless people to self land using the technique highlighted in my video and strong winds (even 35 knots) are no issues whatsoever, provided you are using a Delta or Bow Kite. Much more difficult on C-Kites.

Christian

Ok I just bought your self landing video and watched it.
Makes perfect sense. I'll try it out at the beach tomorrow (forecast to be 25-30kn). Great technique you're teaching in it!