Some tips that work for me, hope it helps you...

Yep the tip to start popping etc like backroll but then throuwing head and front shoulder towards front hand sounds simple enough for me to do. I don't crash backrolls any more and ready to try a new increment.

Load and pop
Jump strongly off the back foot and
Make like a Muay Thai fighter doing a block
Land with the board pointing downwind and ride away...

or...

Boost
Make like a Muay Thai fighter doing a block, aim to only go 2/3 of the rotation
Enjoy the view back upwind
Redirect the kite and let it pull you around to
Land with the board pointing downwind and ride away.

Thanks kamikuzza,

to me the backroll seems natural, as, during loading you generate pivotal momentum in the backroll direction. The higher your kiting speed the more backroll momentum. Once having left the water, that cant be changed. So it all must depend on the very last moment on the water to "neutralise" the back and generate the front rotation. Only crashed thus far. Maybe it would be easier to do as a transition first as the kiting speed would be low?

I think you're right. You sound like me - if I can figure it out in my head, I can do it.

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There are 2.5 types of rotations, IMO.

1: Kite is not part of the equation.
You spin under the kite by using your body to generate the rotation, continiuing he upwind carve.
Landing nicely depends on timing the spin with the height you get off the water - any change in lift from the kite will see you over- or under-rotate.
* Low height off the water, good for single rotation. First one you intentionally learn.

2. Kite is a big part of the stunt.
You aim for a partial rotation in a regular jump and
use the redirection of the kite to pull your body in the right direction for landing.
* as high as you can jump, good for a single rotation. And board offs, foot outs, grabs.

2.5 The combo
Jump, use your body to generate as much spin as possible and
use the kite to halt the rotations and land (may require flicking your hips around to get the board in the right direction)
* high, multiple spins, grabs etc

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Backroll is easier as it's in the same direction as your carve upwind to pop... I think most people discover they can do them by accidentally over-carving

Frontroll requires a bit more dedication as you have to "reverse" the direction of your roatation and IMO you need more wind and body English, for the extra height a d time needed to get around - you have to rotate the board through 360 degrees versus 180 for a backroll.

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I learned front rolls on my Flysurfer Speed3 21m :D the biggest problem I had was way too much hang time LOL so I'd over-rotate, splash down and stall the kite. I very quickly went on to doing two or three spins just to use up the dangle time!

For a type 1 frontroll:
kite at 11 or just under
dont be under- or overpowered, ride wih good speed (comfort level may need adjusting!) and don't sheet in till later
pop, jump hard off back leg
Muay Thai! and then turn your head to look over your back shoulder at your landing spot
sheet in to land.

Tips:
Kite slightly high gives you some lift.
I think it helps if you think of throwing your body out and up, away from the kite, like a swing so you pendulum up as you rotate. This should get your body more parallel to the water.
Don't wakestyle the pop ie. carve so hard the board stops.
Bring your knees up to your chest during the rotation.
Sheeting in will pull you at the kite and should halt your rotation for the landing.
When you make the Muay Thai block, keep yourself balanced - don't lean over to the side, bend along your center line.



------

If you're still having problems, try the frontroll as a transition - bring the kite up to twelve, carve upwind hard under it til you almost stop then throw the front roll aggressively, keeping the kite above you. Worst that'll happen is you simply splash straight downa foot or two... hopefully having completed a rotation From there, you can time the kite redirect to ride away and progresss to doing it while riding.

Type 1

Type 2

Back in the day I struggled a bit with the front roll.
Taking my back hand off the bar and throwing my head under my front armpit helped pull it together.

I learnt inverted front rolls first.
found the rotation far easier. All you do pop, rotate 90 blind then flick your head back and do a backflip. I know, sounds harder on paper but the rotation felt like a normal backflip on a tramp compared to the awkward counter rotation of a front roll.

Select to expand quote

Kamikuza said..
I think you're right. You sound like me - if I can figure it out in my head, I can do it.

------

There are 2.5 types of rotations, IMO.

1: Kite is not part of the equation.
You spin under the kite by using your body to generate the rotation, continiuing he upwind carve.
Landing nicely depends on timing the spin with the height you get off the water - any change in lift from the kite will see you over- or under-rotate.
* Low height off the water, good for single rotation. First one you intentionally learn.

2. Kite is a big part of the stunt.
You aim for a partial rotation in a regular jump and
use the redirection of the kite to pull your body in the right direction for landing.
* as high as you can jump, good for a single rotation. And board offs, foot outs, grabs.

2.5 The combo
Jump, use your body to generate as much spin as possible and
use the kite to halt the rotations and land (may require flicking your hips around to get the board in the right direction)
* high, multiple spins, grabs etc

------

Backroll is easier as it's in the same direction as your carve upwind to pop... I think most people discover they can do them by accidentally over-carving

Frontroll requires a bit more dedication as you have to "reverse" the direction of your roatation and IMO you need more wind and body English, for the extra height a d time needed to get around - you have to rotate the board through 360 degrees versus 180 for a backroll.

------

I learned front rolls on my Flysurfer Speed3 21m :D the biggest problem I had was way too much hang time LOL so I'd over-rotate, splash down and stall the kite. I very quickly went on to doing two or three spins just to use up the dangle time!

For a type 1 frontroll:
kite at 11 or just under
dont be under- or overpowered, ride wih good speed (comfort level may need adjusting!) and don't sheet in till later
pop, jump hard off back leg
Muay Thai! and then turn your head to look over your back shoulder at your landing spot
sheet in to land.

Tips:
Kite slightly high gives you some lift.
I think it helps if you think of throwing your body out and up, away from the kite, like a swing so you pendulum up as you rotate. This should get your body more parallel to the water.
Don't wakestyle the pop ie. carve so hard the board stops.
Bring your knees up to your chest during the rotation.
Sheeting in will pull you at the kite and should halt your rotation for the landing.
When you make the Muay Thai block, keep yourself balanced - don't lean over to the side, bend along your center line.



------

If you're still having problems, try the frontroll as a transition - bring the kite up to twelve, carve upwind hard under it til you almost stop then throw the front roll aggressively, keeping the kite above you. Worst that'll happen is you simply splash straight downa foot or two... hopefully having completed a rotation From there, you can time the kite redirect to ride away and progresss to doing it while riding.

Hi Kamikuzza,

because of your very rational and technical feedback there is no escape now, i have to try it again tomorrow. Thanks its really cool advice. I had of course seen the two clips. Only had one under-rotated attempt today, Instead i did improve my back roll from the mere spinning ( your type1) to something where i probably inadvertently sent the kite a bit... leading to ,what felt like a complete stop of rotation in mid air with fins pointing to horizon. So that was probably your type 2 backroll. Instead of desperately trying to keep the body upwind of the board ( prior to push off), I probably was leaning downwind and got more hang time. 15 m Dyno at around 16 knots,

tomorrow gotta be front roll day. .. At least 10 crashes, haha.
thank

Select to expand quote

flyingcab said..
I learnt inverted front rolls first.
found the rotation far easier. All you do pop, rotate 90 blind then flick your head back and do a backflip. I know, sounds harder on paper but the rotation felt like a normal backflip on a tramp compared to the awkward counter rotation of a front roll.

i have seen clips from Mark Shinn that probably do what you describe . Looks actually better than leaving your fins pointing to the water. It does sound harder on paper in particular the timing. maybe tomorrow.
cheers

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harry potter said..
Back in the day I struggled a bit with the front roll.
Taking my back hand off the bar and throwing my head under my front armpit helped pull it together.

Yep this hi t sounds easy to implement. It would just mean the kit is not send, i suppose.

One last thing for the normal front roll, really push off that back leg and tuck in the front. This will get your weight more central and help you spin.

This is a photo of one of the groms at queensland, he is unhooked but same applies.

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ralfy said..

Kamikuza said..

.....

Hi Kamikuzza,

because of your very rational and technical feedback there is no escape now, i have to try it again tomorrow. Thanks its really cool advice. I had of course seen the two clips. Only had one under-rotated attempt today, Instead i did improve my back roll from the mere spinning ( your type1) to something where i probably inadvertently sent the kite a bit... leading to ,what felt like a complete stop of rotation in mid air with fins pointing to horizon. So that was probably your type 2 backroll. Instead of desperately trying to keep the body upwind of the board ( prior to push off), I probably was leaning downwind and got more hang time. 15 m Dyno at around 16 knots,

tomorrow gotta be front roll day. .. At least 10 crashes, haha.
thank

Yep. You can stall it and stare back upwind at the horizon as long as you like, until you have to redirect. Makes for a good transition too, as you just hang there, backwards :D. If you've got the kite to do it, throw a kite loop then and you've done a e-16...

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flyingcab said...
One last thing for the normal front roll, really push off that back leg and tuck in the front. This will get your weight more central and help you spin.

This is a photo of one of the groms at queensland, he is unhooked but same applies.

Nice one. Manny is always killing it.

Try learning on a trampoline with a handle attached to a pole.. Rope attached at height of jump....

Work's great for practising handle passes and a lot of tricks.

Then you'll do 1 without looking like a ballerina doing a spinny thing!

So how did you go?

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flyingcab said..
So how did you go?

Thanks for asking. Yesterday on 10 m park. It behaves like an 8 m To me. No lift. Barely enough for backrolls.
today at 12 kn on 15 m Dyno. Same story . I reckon more wind is needed for front roll than bckroll.
perfected backroll kiteloop transitions though. Works ok when underpowered.
yesssss i know , frontroll...

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Kamikuza said..
Type 1

Noah that guy is really good at standing on water. I wish my coach could do that.

Toldja. Need a little more wind to do front rolls, especially unseat ones...

Yes you told me.

Tried (once), spun too slowly, underkiting and hindenburging... I know... have to give it at least say 10 trials...

If you are doing them unhooked its a front flip, a front roll is a toe side trick

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strydz said..
If you are doing them unhooked its a front flip, a front roll is a toe side trick

What are you talking about?? LOL

Ok, The majority of unhooked kite tricks come from wakeboarding hence wakestyle tricks. That being said front rolls are a toe side trick, front to blind, front to fakie, slims, are front flip based tricks. Where as scarecrows, elephants, crow mobes and tootsie rolls are frontroll based tricks. Google wakeboard frontroll.