What i have found online, after 2013, they switched to single front flagging line. Any special reason or?
I am using IDS now for selflaunching/landing (semi drift launch, not much room here, +i am noob) and feeling very comfortable using it often when F-ing around in shallow water.
Also, is launching still easy with new safety?

My limited understanding is that the IDS system causes the two front lines to be too close together (high-Y) thereby not allowing the front line bridles to fully open up the front of the kite thereby reducing its low-end grunt.

I have had cabs from 2007-14 and the very early models had heaps more grunt because the front lines separate at the bar (low-Y), but this could also be just kite/bridle design, and again my limited knowledge. I recently bought a 2007 12m just to fly in light winds, and yes it does have grunt, but it turns like a dog. The 2014 models seem to have more low end grunt because of the low-Y but a much better turning speed than the 2006-08 models so best of both worlds.

The other reason I think is the IDS like any other system is not perfect and does not 100% remove all power, the single front line causes the kite to land on its back but often in stronger winds will flap up and down and you have to walk up both front lines to get to the kite to flip it over. The single front line could remove more power and help the kite fall on its side although I have not seen this happen myself.

I would not recommend using the IDS to launch and you should probably learn to self land without the IDS and only use it when really needed, like when the kite has inverted or wind is strong and no-one around to land you.

The high-Y also makes self-landing more difficult as it is hard to grab a single front line (high-Y)

The 2012-14 quicklink system is an absolute pain to reconnect when in the water (I have never managed to do this successfully), whereas I could easily reconnect the 2010-11 ones. The 2015 bar supposedly is easier to re-connect after release.

There are heaps of cab tech vids, suggest you check them out.

It would be good to hear from a cabrinha expert but there is always a muted response here.

Highza is correct.

check out Peter's explanation here.

kitesurfing-handbook.peterskiteboarding.com/gear/safety-leash

Easy to self land a high-Y - same as a low, just hand over hand to the split and then pull the front line.

A big problem with dual-front safety is different length lines... Makes buying generic a problem.

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Kamikuza said..
Easy to self land a high-Y - same as a low, just hand over hand to the split and then pull the front line.

A big problem with dual-front safety is different length lines... Makes buying generic a problem.

I disagree. Easy in light winds, but try pulling up the line in over 20knots
Besides, you might as well get to the kite itself and park it, especially as some high Y points are closer to the kite than to the bar.
and besides again, what's the point of any depower system if all you have to do is walk up the lines to the kite!?

Well, got 2009 and 2010 ids bars, both act same way and can't say it's 100% depower because there is always that tiny little pull which i think is normal.
Yes, ids needs u to make 1-2 steps front so kite can "lie" down and spill power (and better amount of time flip), in the water just pulls me 1 sec more till it spills the most of it. 90% times it just flips, the other 10% times stays on its back and starts floating inverted but i think it's only happening in higher wind.

Actually it is pretty "safe" to go self/drift launch, i was (turbo noob times) on 12m at 20+ gusting to 30+, 3 times was working fine and predictable, just flips after that little delayed pull. And yes, both have pretty high Y compare to todays "same" models.

Only problem i encountered in marginal winds in deep water, sometimes doesn't get enough wind to "lie" down and spill power so u get dragged downwind with minimum speed till wind comes back, or u have to pull center lines to "make it lie and spill".

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Just2807 said..
Actually it is pretty "safe" to go self/drift launch, i was (turbo noob times) on 12m at 20+ gusting to 30+, 3 times was working fine and predictable, just flips after that little delayed pull. And yes, both have pretty high Y compare to todays "same" models.

Well at least that validates your noob claim.

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Loftywinds said..

Kamikuza said..
Easy to self land a high-Y - same as a low, just hand over hand to the split and then pull the front line.

A big problem with dual-front safety is different length lines... Makes buying generic a problem.

I disagree. Easy in light winds, but try pulling up the line in over 20knots
Besides, you might as well get to the kite itself and park it, especially as some high Y points are closer to the kite than to the bar.
and besides again, what's the point of any depower system if all you have to do is walk up the lines to the kite!?

Tosh. I do it all the time, whatever the wind. Like most things, if you have the correct technique it's simple.

How are you going to keep the kite om the ground and balanced on a wing tip once you're past the split? Doesn't make sense...

... and neither does that.

IDS (Intelligent Depower System) is the whole double-front line safety system - IIRC Cabrinha calls letting go of the bar Stage One, throwing the QR Stage Two and pulling the knob to completely ditch the kite Stage Three.

The single front is called 1X and doesn't use the long bridles and pulleys the double front needs... pretty sure the bar throw is the same though.

So, shorter bridles, fewer pulleys and less power in the safetied kite for the 1X system.

how do you launch your kite flagged/with QR pulled? Don't your centrelines turn into spagetti? Whenever I pull the QR the centre lines the 1x line starts to move forward and become tangled with the line its attached to and usually the other centre line sort of throws itself in there too at some point....

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Kamikuza said..

Loftywinds said..

Kamikuza said..
Easy to self land a high-Y - same as a low, just hand over hand to the split and then pull the front line.

A big problem with dual-front safety is different length lines... Makes buying generic a problem.

I disagree. Easy in light winds, but try pulling up the line in over 20knots
Besides, you might as well get to the kite itself and park it, especially as some high Y points are closer to the kite than to the bar.
and besides again, what's the point of any depower system if all you have to do is walk up the lines to the kite!?

Tosh. I do it all the time, whatever the wind. Like most things, if you have the correct technique it's simple.

Video?

Everyone that had one tried to eject and lost their kites,

I'm with you Kami, never had a problem, as said its a technique thing as with every other kite out their. Usually just landed with a fist full of centre lines and committment... I don't know any of the local crew have lost a kite on deployment of the IDS

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Loftywinds said..

Kamikuza said..

Loftywinds said..

Kamikuza said..
Easy to self land a high-Y - same as a low, just hand over hand to the split and then pull the front line.

A big problem with dual-front safety is different length lines... Makes buying generic a problem.

I disagree. Easy in light winds, but try pulling up the line in over 20knots
Besides, you might as well get to the kite itself and park it, especially as some high Y points are closer to the kite than to the bar.
and besides again, what's the point of any depower system if all you have to do is walk up the lines to the kite!?

Tosh. I do it all the time, whatever the wind. Like most things, if you have the correct technique it's simple.

Video?

Or if the kite is the right shape for the IDS flagging to work properly, you can do it like this in shallow water.
Then wind the 10' of IDS line onto the bar then all 4 lines until you get to the kite. Keep the bar low to the water as you get nearer the kite.

Thanks terminal, that's the one. It's a thether landing with a mobile tether.

Worst result I've had is the kite gets air under it and it floats up a bit and floats downwind to land LE down anyway. Serve me right for being lazy...

The IDS is referred to first stage (of 3) of depowering in cabrinha brand. IDS has not stopper ball, so the spring system permits an "intelligent" depower when you let go the bar. When you are in 9 metres with more than 30 knots you can feel the IDS (spring recoil) working...

With the IDS kites that have the correct shape/bridle, the kite can be landed on land by just dropping it using the Q/R. The single line flag out means that the kite designer has more freedom to design other performance related characteristics into a kite. With IDS the LE and struts shape and bridle have limits if the IDS is to work properly.

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kitercanar said..
The IDS is referred to first stage (of 3) of depowering in cabrinha brand. IDS has not stopper ball, so the spring system permits an "intelligent" depower when you let go the bar. When you are in 9 metres with more than 30 knots you can feel the IDS (spring recoil) working...

The recoil spring is designed to keep the bar within reach, to allow easy spinning of bar after loops/tricks. The 2009-10 models had a form of IDS but not the recoil spring. This was introduced in 2011 models.

Agree its overall not the most "intelligent" system out there and the 2012-14 quicklink system is an absolute pain to re-connect.

We still have not answered the question as to why they moved "back" to a low-Y, but as terminal/kamikuza say its probably bridle/kite design.

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Kamikuza said..
The single front is called 1X and doesn't use the long bridles and pulleys the double front needs... pretty sure the bar throw is the same though.

So, shorter bridles, fewer pulleys and less power in the safetied kite for the 1X system.

It does look simpler but given the costs of cabrinha equipment I worry how much it is going to cost to replace the lines.... hopefully can just replace the front two lines and get a sailmaker to re-stitch the depower line back on to one of the front lines.

The 2015 X1 bar does not have the extra depower line on one of the front lines that the 2014 bar had. It has single lines all the way to the top of the depower strap so no special lines to be constructed. Also has a new QR loop system that you can literally reset with one hand. Fantastic set up, having had Cabrinha kites since the original 2 line CO2 I have to say this is the best bar they have made. I did how ever opt for fixed length bars rather than the adjustable version. I like 1 bar per kite and didn't expect I would ever be adjusting the bar length for a given kite size. Plus less wieght and moving parts...

PS also used the new 2015 bar set up on my older 2011 IDS 12m switchblade for a few months. Slightly different feel, and IDS kite will pull and flap a little more on a single line safety where as on the IDS bar the worst it would do would be roll on its back and sit there.

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HighzaKite said..

I would not recommend using the IDS to launch and you should probably learn to self land without the IDS and only use it when really needed, like when the kite has inverted or wind is strong and no-one around to land you.

Not much shallow water here, no legal kiting spots close by (so u have to improvise far away from swimmers), beaches are narrow, Gilette rock all over the coast, not much kiters around either. I should give up?
Never had problems launching or landing with IDS, and i always do it in water. It is pain in the anus every time and trust me, i would love to have legal kiting spot around here. Just before launching and wrapping up the kite i make sure IDS line is properly "stretched" (don't know the exact word for it) so kite is always least powered.

And yes, i checked everything Cabrinha had on Youtube long before i was even looking for buying a SB/CB. I understood how to calibrate the bar long before i even went with instructor to show me some "moves" or actually touch anything that had to do with kiting. I even rerouted IDS line in 2010 bar based on their advice (which avoided tangling IDS line with trim adjusters if i recall well) before i went with it 1st time in the water.

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westozwind said..

Just2807 said..
Actually it is pretty "safe" to go self/drift launch, i was (turbo noob times) on 12m at 20+ gusting to 30+, 3 times was working fine and predictable, just flips after that little delayed pull. And yes, both have pretty high Y compare to todays "same" models.

Well at least that validates your noob claim.

Well, got in the sport with only 1 kite for starters (on a budget) i knew it was wrong, picked wide spot with no1 around where wind will drag me to the beach if anything goes wrong. I couldn't wait till i get money for smaller kite (8 works great now). Was pretty much excited i get in the water with it after long time of money saving and couple of "perfect wind" days missed. Kinda frustrated!

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tomme said..
Everyone that had one tried to eject and lost their kites,

I can understand this, been confused when i got 1st bar with IDS. There is a hole for a leash on a chicken loop which had no sense connecting it there because when u deploy 2nd QR (little ring ending the IDS line secured on the chickenloop) leash isn't connected to IDS line (kite), it just holds the chickenloop which is actually useless. I connect my leash on that little ring at the end of the IDS line so when 2nd QR is deployed, kite still stays on the leash.

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HighzaKite said..
We still have not answered the question as to why they moved "back" to a low-Y, but as terminal/kamikuza say its probably bridle/kite design.

Regarding low/hi Y, i had my eye on 12/9 2013 SB quiver with suspiciously good price (over a year, still hasn't been sold), i don't know does this have to do with it but mate (he started kiting in 2005/6, wakestyler) told me they turned a bit faster than older models but lost bottom end grunt and he was mentioning something about "moving the splits". He told me better to look for 2011/12 rather than 2013. I really don't know is that reason or just "bad" factory models but he wasn't the only 1 who was mentioned that, i read online somewhere the same for 10m+ models, 3-4 kts less lower range. Was regarding only for SB, not sure about other models.
Again, not my words, just a thought.

You only deploy QR2 when -- oddly enough -- you want to be completely free of the kite. I've used QR1 once, to see how it works, and never used QR2.

IMO with the older CL design, you could almost ride without a safety leash and just rely on QR1/2 for ejection. (Unfortunatly, I've had accidental unhooks a few times, and twice lost the kite when the leash ripped the ring out of the harness and the carabiner got ripped in half.) In fact, the new CL does just that -- the leash connects to the free-spinning doohickey for the unhookers, and the QR1/2 aren't connected.

Connecting to the QR2 ring is fine idea though. Do you leave the knob on? Always thought the drag of the leash would pull on the line if you took it off...

After reading all comments, for me IDS is a marketing name, which has evolved through the years, differentiating from others brands standard. It is possible to use cabrinha kites without a leash unless you do unhooked tricks...

Yeah never used QR2, i am strictly hooked. Still learning phase, maybe 1 day... I am leaning towards freeride/wake.
But yes, accidental unhook is loosing kite (with no leash) on IDS, that's the only reason i don't use only IDS as a leash. Never happened to me but who knows....

Knob always packed, same thought, leash could rip it... Practiced few times how to "rip it off fast" just in case.

Can get u fooled when watching (older) cabrinha bar on the water, like dude on water has leash connected and swimming towards runaway kite... Like wtf? xD
U go Pete Cabrinha, nice design :P

2015 cabrinha bar has no IDS, they turned to a standard chicken loop system, What can we expect for 2016 gear?... lets see

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kitercanar said..
2015 cabrinha bar has no IDS, they turned to a standard chicken loop system, What can we expect for 2016 gear?... lets see

Cam cleat for trim...

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Kamikuza said..

kitercanar said..
2015 cabrinha bar has no IDS, they turned to a standard chicken loop system, What can we expect for 2016 gear?... lets see

Cam cleat for trim...

Two line bar.

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kitercanar said..
2015 cabrinha bar has no IDS, they turned to a standard chicken loop system, What can we expect for 2016 gear?... lets see

back to the future. one thing's for sure is they are going to cost more than this year's