I tried looping on my 8m last summer but it gives me a bit too much speed. I see a few guys out on 5m foil kites and it gave me the idea to possibly just keep looping a smaller size kite rather than doing the old tick-tack/in-out/swing-the-kite-across-the-window-for-the-500th-time maneuvers on a 9m.

You think this would be possible and fun on a 5m kite?

The loop power is controlled by your board angle / resistance..
The big question is what wind strength and what board size..

You don't state what type of riding you want to do. Do you want to mega boost your way downwind super-powered or do you want to ride waves with is little power as possible?


For boosting keep the 9m going for wave riding most definitely drop a size or 2.

On a side note if you cant loop effectively going downwind then you are overpowered in general. Use a 7m instead of a 9 in those same winds. You should be able to loop on the wave faces going dtl all the way up until stupid overpowered.

Select to expand quote

SaveTheWhales said..
The loop power is controlled by your board angle / resistance..
The big question is what wind strength and what board size..

No resistance, just straight down wind on a twin tip. wind is standard summer in WA 25knts

Select to expand quote

Plummet said..
You don't state what type of riding you want to do. Do you want to mega boost your way downwind super-powered or do you want to ride waves with is little power as possible?


For boosting keep the 9m going for wave riding most definitely drop a size or 2.

On a side note if you cant loop effectively going downwind then you are overpowered in general. Use a 7m instead of a 9 in those same winds. You should be able to loop on the wave faces going dtl all the way up until stupid overpowered.

the type of riding i want ot do is a non-tick-tack/non-in-out/non-swing-the-kite-across-the-window-for-the-500th-time. I basically just want to be able to travel straight down wind and loop my kite constantly without worrying about

a) getting too much speed and having to tack to kill it off

b) keeping the loop constantly circling fast rather than it having to go back up to 12 every couple of loops because of the lack of resistance (from me not tacking or going sideways) making it fall out of the sky a bit. (hope that makes sense).

Select to expand quote

drewpweiner said..

Plummet said..
You don't state what type of riding you want to do. Do you want to mega boost your way downwind super-powered or do you want to ride waves with is little power as possible?


For boosting keep the 9m going for wave riding most definitely drop a size or 2.

On a side note if you cant loop effectively going downwind then you are overpowered in general. Use a 7m instead of a 9 in those same winds. You should be able to loop on the wave faces going dtl all the way up until stupid overpowered.

the type of riding i want ot do is a non-tick-tack/non-in-out/non-swing-the-kite-across-the-window-for-the-500th-time. I basically just want to be able to travel straight down wind and loop my kite constantly without worrying about

a) getting too much speed and having to tack to kill it off

b) keeping the loop constantly circling fast rather than it having to go back up to 12 every couple of loops because of the lack of resistance (from me not tacking or going sideways) making it fall out of the sky a bit. (hope that makes sense).

I think you need to buy a wind wing Drew ......

Use a 7m in 25 knots. Thatl sort ya

Maybe windsurfing is what you are looking for ? No need to loop or fly the kite. Can head straight downwind and never feel too much speed or power.
And then your user name would suit your sport.

Select to expand quote

lotofwind said..
Maybe windsurfing is what you are looking for ? No need to loop or fly the kite. Can head straight downwind and never feel too much speed or power.
And then your user name would suit your sport.

Haha you wont catch me dead as one of those kooks, cant even boost big or do grabs. Plus, its so dangerous for beach goers not being able to turn fast and/or kill of speed. No thanks, i'll leave it to the dried up crusty old men from last century no offense!

Select to expand quote

Gateman said..

drewpweiner said..

Plummet said..
You don't state what type of riding you want to do. Do you want to mega boost your way downwind super-powered or do you want to ride waves with is little power as possible?


For boosting keep the 9m going for wave riding most definitely drop a size or 2.

On a side note if you cant loop effectively going downwind then you are overpowered in general. Use a 7m instead of a 9 in those same winds. You should be able to loop on the wave faces going dtl all the way up until stupid overpowered.

the type of riding i want ot do is a non-tick-tack/non-in-out/non-swing-the-kite-across-the-window-for-the-500th-time. I basically just want to be able to travel straight down wind and loop my kite constantly without worrying about

a) getting too much speed and having to tack to kill it off

b) keeping the loop constantly circling fast rather than it having to go back up to 12 every couple of loops because of the lack of resistance (from me not tacking or going sideways) making it fall out of the sky a bit. (hope that makes sense).

I think you need to buy a wind wing Drew ......

I think they only work on foils. that would be ace though! would feel like batman or something

Select to expand quote

drewpweiner said..

Plummet said..
You don't state what type of riding you want to do. Do you want to mega boost your way downwind super-powered or do you want to ride waves with is little power as possible?


For boosting keep the 9m going for wave riding most definitely drop a size or 2.

On a side note if you cant loop effectively going downwind then you are overpowered in general. Use a 7m instead of a 9 in those same winds. You should be able to loop on the wave faces going dtl all the way up until stupid overpowered.

the type of riding i want ot do is a non-tick-tack/non-in-out/non-swing-the-kite-across-the-window-for-the-500th-time. I basically just want to be able to travel straight down wind and loop my kite constantly without worrying about

a) getting too much speed and having to tack to kill it off

b) keeping the loop constantly circling fast rather than it having to go back up to 12 every couple of loops because of the lack of resistance (from me not tacking or going sideways) making it fall out of the sky a bit. (hope that makes sense).

Hi Drew.
Try a Flysurfer Peak4 single skin foil kite. You can go downwind with them looping or not and they won't fall out of the sky even if you go straight at the kite. Even better on a hydrofoil where you'd use a 3m Peak4 in 25 knots. On a TT board a 4m or 5m Peak4 might be best sizewise depending on your weight. The Peak4 sits deep in the window and will pull you downwind better than most other kites.

Select to expand quote

drsurf said..

drewpweiner said..

Plummet said..
You don't state what type of riding you want to do. Do you want to mega boost your way downwind super-powered or do you want to ride waves with is little power as possible?


For boosting keep the 9m going for wave riding most definitely drop a size or 2.

On a side note if you cant loop effectively going downwind then you are overpowered in general. Use a 7m instead of a 9 in those same winds. You should be able to loop on the wave faces going dtl all the way up until stupid overpowered.

the type of riding i want ot do is a non-tick-tack/non-in-out/non-swing-the-kite-across-the-window-for-the-500th-time. I basically just want to be able to travel straight down wind and loop my kite constantly without worrying about

a) getting too much speed and having to tack to kill it off

b) keeping the loop constantly circling fast rather than it having to go back up to 12 every couple of loops because of the lack of resistance (from me not tacking or going sideways) making it fall out of the sky a bit. (hope that makes sense).

Hi Drew.
Try a Flysurfer Peak4 single skin foil kite. You can go downwind with them looping or not and they won't fall out of the sky even if you go straight at the kite. Even better on a hydrofoil where you'd use a 3m Peak4 in 25 knots. On a TT board a 4m or 5m Peak4 might be best sizewise depending on your weight. The Peak4 sits deep in the window and will pull you downwind better than most other kites.

Ahhhh so thats why I am seeing these people being able to downwind so easy on them! Thankyou!

Is this all foil kites around 4m/5m that will do it or is it specific to flysurfer peak4? I definitely have reservations about foil kites:

-can't water start if kite hits water

-5m foil kites probably slower to turn/loop than regular kites

-tangled kite lines on pack-up/unpack (there's so many of them!)

-kite luffing and completely collapsing only to end up in the water

The advantage is no pumping up/deflating though.. maybe you could correct me on this.

A peak 4 is not a water relaunchable foil. It is not designed for use in the water. Do not consider this kite as an option.

Select to expand quote

drewpweiner said..

drsurf said..

drewpweiner said..

Plummet said..
You don't state what type of riding you want to do. Do you want to mega boost your way downwind super-powered or do you want to ride waves with is little power as possible?


For boosting keep the 9m going for wave riding most definitely drop a size or 2.

On a side note if you cant loop effectively going downwind then you are overpowered in general. Use a 7m instead of a 9 in those same winds. You should be able to loop on the wave faces going dtl all the way up until stupid overpowered.

the type of riding i want ot do is a non-tick-tack/non-in-out/non-swing-the-kite-across-the-window-for-the-500th-time. I basically just want to be able to travel straight down wind and loop my kite constantly without worrying about

a) getting too much speed and having to tack to kill it off

b) keeping the loop constantly circling fast rather than it having to go back up to 12 every couple of loops because of the lack of resistance (from me not tacking or going sideways) making it fall out of the sky a bit. (hope that makes sense).

Hi Drew.
Try a Flysurfer Peak4 single skin foil kite. You can go downwind with them looping or not and they won't fall out of the sky even if you go straight at the kite. Even better on a hydrofoil where you'd use a 3m Peak4 in 25 knots. On a TT board a 4m or 5m Peak4 might be best sizewise depending on your weight. The Peak4 sits deep in the window and will pull you downwind better than most other kites.

Ahhhh so thats why I am seeing these people being able to downwind so easy on them! Thankyou!

Is this all foil kites around 4m/5m that will do it or is it specific to flysurfer peak4? I definitely have reservations about foil kites:

-can't water start if kite hits water

-5m foil kites probably slower to turn/loop than regular kites

-tangled kite lines on pack-up/unpack (there's so many of them!)

-kite luffing and completely collapsing only to end up in the water

The advantage is no pumping up/deflating though.. maybe you could correct me on this.

The characteristics are specific to the Peak4. They are single skin foil kites and weigh less than any other kite in a similar size. eg the 4m weighs 700gm and the 5m 880gm. They also have incredible power for their size and excellent depower.
Yes, they are primarily designed as snow and land kites but they work very well on water for foiling or downwind/wave kiting where you want plenty of drift. You haven't felt drift until you've tried a Peak4! They also loop and turn faster than comparable twinskin foil kites and even LEI kites.
They aren't designed for water relaunch but sometimes can be relaunched if you still have line tension. They won't hit the water unless you steer them there as they don't have a tendency to luff or fall from the sky even when you steer directly at the kite. They also retain steering control even at full depower going downwind. However don't go further out than you want to swim because you will hit the water sometimes. The kite can be packed up easily when down and stuffed into a small bag if required.
There aren't as many bridle lines on the Peak4's compared to a twin skin foil and they don't tend to tangle.

They only way to really determine if it works for you is to try one. They are also one of the least expensive kites you can buy and work on any 4 line bar with equal lines. The customers I've sold them to have often bought more Peak4's after buying and trying their first one.

Select to expand quote

drsurf said..

drewpweiner said..

drsurf said..

drewpweiner said..

Plummet said..
You don't state what type of riding you want to do. Do you want to mega boost your way downwind super-powered or do you want to ride waves with is little power as possible?


For boosting keep the 9m going for wave riding most definitely drop a size or 2.

On a side note if you cant loop effectively going downwind then you are overpowered in general. Use a 7m instead of a 9 in those same winds. You should be able to loop on the wave faces going dtl all the way up until stupid overpowered.

the type of riding i want ot do is a non-tick-tack/non-in-out/non-swing-the-kite-across-the-window-for-the-500th-time. I basically just want to be able to travel straight down wind and loop my kite constantly without worrying about

a) getting too much speed and having to tack to kill it off

b) keeping the loop constantly circling fast rather than it having to go back up to 12 every couple of loops because of the lack of resistance (from me not tacking or going sideways) making it fall out of the sky a bit. (hope that makes sense).

Hi Drew.
Try a Flysurfer Peak4 single skin foil kite. You can go downwind with them looping or not and they won't fall out of the sky even if you go straight at the kite. Even better on a hydrofoil where you'd use a 3m Peak4 in 25 knots. On a TT board a 4m or 5m Peak4 might be best sizewise depending on your weight. The Peak4 sits deep in the window and will pull you downwind better than most other kites.

Ahhhh so thats why I am seeing these people being able to downwind so easy on them! Thankyou!

Is this all foil kites around 4m/5m that will do it or is it specific to flysurfer peak4? I definitely have reservations about foil kites:

-can't water start if kite hits water

-5m foil kites probably slower to turn/loop than regular kites

-tangled kite lines on pack-up/unpack (there's so many of them!)

-kite luffing and completely collapsing only to end up in the water

The advantage is no pumping up/deflating though.. maybe you could correct me on this.

The characteristics are specific to the Peak4. They are single skin foil kites and weigh less than any other kite in a similar size. eg the 4m weighs 700gm and the 5m 880gm. They also have incredible power for their size and excellent depower.
Yes, they are primarily designed as snow and land kites but they work very well on water for foiling or downwind/wave kiting where you want plenty of drift. You haven't felt drift until you've tried a Peak4! They also loop and turn faster than comparable twinskin foil kites and even LEI kites.
They aren't designed for water relaunch but sometimes can be relaunched if you still have line tension. They won't hit the water unless you steer them there as they don't have a tendency to luff or fall from the sky even when you steer directly at the kite. They also retain steering control even at full depower going downwind. However don't go further out than you want to swim because you will hit the water sometimes. The kite can be packed up easily when down and stuffed into a small bag if required.
There aren't as many bridle lines on the Peak4's compared to a twin skin foil and they don't tend to tangle.

They only way to really determine if it works for you is to try one. They are also one of the least expensive kites you can buy and work on any 4 line bar with equal lines. The customers I've sold them to have often bought more Peak4's after buying and trying their first one.

You are suggesting a non water relaunchable kite to a novice that has not yet learnt how to loop down wind.

It is a dangerous suggestion and should only be suggested to experienced individuals who have full kite control.

Agree with Plum here, the Peak4 is an advanced kite when used on the water. You mess up, you are swimming. I would NOT recommend this kite for the average kiter. When learning to loop you have to learn to chase the kite therefore spilling any power you might generate with the the pull. Once you are comfortable looping you can learn where and when to generate power, how to keep the kite deeper in the the powerzone and still not outrun your kite. It takes time to learn these skills and you have to learn to commit to the loop.
I will say this, the Peak4 loops like a mofo. It's fast, and I really like it. But I would not be on one in the surf on a surfboard or twintip.

Select to expand quote

Plummet said..

drsurf said..

drewpweiner said..

drsurf said..

drewpweiner said..

Plummet said..
You don't state what type of riding you want to do. Do you want to mega boost your way downwind super-powered or do you want to ride waves with is little power as possible?


For boosting keep the 9m going for wave riding most definitely drop a size or 2.

On a side note if you cant loop effectively going downwind then you are overpowered in general. Use a 7m instead of a 9 in those same winds. You should be able to loop on the wave faces going dtl all the way up until stupid overpowered.

the type of riding i want ot do is a non-tick-tack/non-in-out/non-swing-the-kite-across-the-window-for-the-500th-time. I basically just want to be able to travel straight down wind and loop my kite constantly without worrying about

a) getting too much speed and having to tack to kill it off

b) keeping the loop constantly circling fast rather than it having to go back up to 12 every couple of loops because of the lack of resistance (from me not tacking or going sideways) making it fall out of the sky a bit. (hope that makes sense).

Hi Drew.
Try a Flysurfer Peak4 single skin foil kite. You can go downwind with them looping or not and they won't fall out of the sky even if you go straight at the kite. Even better on a hydrofoil where you'd use a 3m Peak4 in 25 knots. On a TT board a 4m or 5m Peak4 might be best sizewise depending on your weight. The Peak4 sits deep in the window and will pull you downwind better than most other kites.

Ahhhh so thats why I am seeing these people being able to downwind so easy on them! Thankyou!

Is this all foil kites around 4m/5m that will do it or is it specific to flysurfer peak4? I definitely have reservations about foil kites:

-can't water start if kite hits water

-5m foil kites probably slower to turn/loop than regular kites

-tangled kite lines on pack-up/unpack (there's so many of them!)

-kite luffing and completely collapsing only to end up in the water

The advantage is no pumping up/deflating though.. maybe you could correct me on this.

The characteristics are specific to the Peak4. They are single skin foil kites and weigh less than any other kite in a similar size. eg the 4m weighs 700gm and the 5m 880gm. They also have incredible power for their size and excellent depower.
Yes, they are primarily designed as snow and land kites but they work very well on water for foiling or downwind/wave kiting where you want plenty of drift. You haven't felt drift until you've tried a Peak4! They also loop and turn faster than comparable twinskin foil kites and even LEI kites.
They aren't designed for water relaunch but sometimes can be relaunched if you still have line tension. They won't hit the water unless you steer them there as they don't have a tendency to luff or fall from the sky even when you steer directly at the kite. They also retain steering control even at full depower going downwind. However don't go further out than you want to swim because you will hit the water sometimes. The kite can be packed up easily when down and stuffed into a small bag if required.
There aren't as many bridle lines on the Peak4's compared to a twin skin foil and they don't tend to tangle.

They only way to really determine if it works for you is to try one. They are also one of the least expensive kites you can buy and work on any 4 line bar with equal lines. The customers I've sold them to have often bought more Peak4's after buying and trying their first one.

You are suggesting a non water relaunchable kite to a novice that has not yet learnt how to loop down wind.

It is a dangerous suggestion and should only be suggested to experienced individuals who have full kite control.

Where did you get that info? Been kiting regularly for 3+ years and loop down wind a lot. (maybe that means a novice to you though which is fair... I guess novice to me means not being able to do back/front rolls or boosts or keep an edge properly.

Select to expand quote

dafish said..
Agree with Plum here, the Peak4 is an advanced kite when used on the water. You mess up, you are swimming. I would NOT recommend this kite for the average kiter. When learning to loop you have to learn to chase the kite therefore spilling any power you might generate with the the pull. Once you are comfortable looping you can learn where and when to generate power, how to keep the kite deeper in the the powerzone and still not outrun your kite. It takes time to learn these skills and you have to learn to commit to the loop.
I will say this, the Peak4 loops like a mofo. It's fast, and I really like it. But I would not be on one in the surf on a surfboard or twintip.

Yeah, i probably wouldn't be swimming though as my intention was to downwind incredibly close to the shore, perhaps even on a skimboard, which is what I see people on these types of kites doing (have seen quite a few lately and it looks awesome).

Thing is, I am sick of chasing the kite (I assume you mean adjusting my position in the water in order to keep tension on the lines). I want the tension to remain constant but also for the pull to remain constant throughout the loop so that I don't get these massive increases in pull from the kite which amounts to massive increases in my speed (which is ruining me enjoying trying to go straight downwind). It seems that regardless of where my kite sits in the powerzone these shifts in its pull always exist (no matter how tight the loop, no matter how fast). If I've interpreted you wrong please tell me how as it's often quite difficult to explain these things coherently

Select to expand quote

drsurf said..

drewpweiner said..

drsurf said..

drewpweiner said..

Plummet said..
You don't state what type of riding you want to do. Do you want to mega boost your way downwind super-powered or do you want to ride waves with is little power as possible?


For boosting keep the 9m going for wave riding most definitely drop a size or 2.

On a side note if you cant loop effectively going downwind then you are overpowered in general. Use a 7m instead of a 9 in those same winds. You should be able to loop on the wave faces going dtl all the way up until stupid overpowered.

the type of riding i want ot do is a non-tick-tack/non-in-out/non-swing-the-kite-across-the-window-for-the-500th-time. I basically just want to be able to travel straight down wind and loop my kite constantly without worrying about

a) getting too much speed and having to tack to kill it off

b) keeping the loop constantly circling fast rather than it having to go back up to 12 every couple of loops because of the lack of resistance (from me not tacking or going sideways) making it fall out of the sky a bit. (hope that makes sense).

Hi Drew.
Try a Flysurfer Peak4 single skin foil kite. You can go downwind with them looping or not and they won't fall out of the sky even if you go straight at the kite. Even better on a hydrofoil where you'd use a 3m Peak4 in 25 knots. On a TT board a 4m or 5m Peak4 might be best sizewise depending on your weight. The Peak4 sits deep in the window and will pull you downwind better than most other kites.

Ahhhh so thats why I am seeing these people being able to downwind so easy on them! Thankyou!

Is this all foil kites around 4m/5m that will do it or is it specific to flysurfer peak4? I definitely have reservations about foil kites:

-can't water start if kite hits water

-5m foil kites probably slower to turn/loop than regular kites

-tangled kite lines on pack-up/unpack (there's so many of them!)

-kite luffing and completely collapsing only to end up in the water

The advantage is no pumping up/deflating though.. maybe you could correct me on this.

They only way to really determine if it works for you is to try one. They are also one of the least expensive kites you can buy and work on any 4 line bar with equal lines. The customers I've sold them to have often bought more Peak4's after buying and trying their first one.

Thanks Drsurf, will have a look in to it ;)

what kind of kite do you fly? Also, when learning, or getting better in your case, it helps to have a smaller kite for two reasons, faster, and less power hungry.

After arriving downwind 5 mins later - did you plan on swimming back upwind... or did you have some other skill as well..

Select to expand quote

drewpweiner said..

Plummet said..

drsurf said..

drewpweiner said..

drsurf said..

drewpweiner said..

Plummet said..
You don't state what type of riding you want to do. Do you want to mega boost your way downwind super-powered or do you want to ride waves with is little power as possible?


For boosting keep the 9m going for wave riding most definitely drop a size or 2.

On a side note if you cant loop effectively going downwind then you are overpowered in general. Use a 7m instead of a 9 in those same winds. You should be able to loop on the wave faces going dtl all the way up until stupid overpowered.

the type of riding i want ot do is a non-tick-tack/non-in-out/non-swing-the-kite-across-the-window-for-the-500th-time. I basically just want to be able to travel straight down wind and loop my kite constantly without worrying about

a) getting too much speed and having to tack to kill it off

b) keeping the loop constantly circling fast rather than it having to go back up to 12 every couple of loops because of the lack of resistance (from me not tacking or going sideways) making it fall out of the sky a bit. (hope that makes sense).

Hi Drew.
Try a Flysurfer Peak4 single skin foil kite. You can go downwind with them looping or not and they won't fall out of the sky even if you go straight at the kite. Even better on a hydrofoil where you'd use a 3m Peak4 in 25 knots. On a TT board a 4m or 5m Peak4 might be best sizewise depending on your weight. The Peak4 sits deep in the window and will pull you downwind better than most other kites.

Ahhhh so thats why I am seeing these people being able to downwind so easy on them! Thankyou!

Is this all foil kites around 4m/5m that will do it or is it specific to flysurfer peak4? I definitely have reservations about foil kites:

-can't water start if kite hits water

-5m foil kites probably slower to turn/loop than regular kites

-tangled kite lines on pack-up/unpack (there's so many of them!)

-kite luffing and completely collapsing only to end up in the water

The advantage is no pumping up/deflating though.. maybe you could correct me on this.

The characteristics are specific to the Peak4. They are single skin foil kites and weigh less than any other kite in a similar size. eg the 4m weighs 700gm and the 5m 880gm. They also have incredible power for their size and excellent depower.
Yes, they are primarily designed as snow and land kites but they work very well on water for foiling or downwind/wave kiting where you want plenty of drift. You haven't felt drift until you've tried a Peak4! They also loop and turn faster than comparable twinskin foil kites and even LEI kites.
They aren't designed for water relaunch but sometimes can be relaunched if you still have line tension. They won't hit the water unless you steer them there as they don't have a tendency to luff or fall from the sky even when you steer directly at the kite. They also retain steering control even at full depower going downwind. However don't go further out than you want to swim because you will hit the water sometimes. The kite can be packed up easily when down and stuffed into a small bag if required.
There aren't as many bridle lines on the Peak4's compared to a twin skin foil and they don't tend to tangle.

They only way to really determine if it works for you is to try one. They are also one of the least expensive kites you can buy and work on any 4 line bar with equal lines. The customers I've sold them to have often bought more Peak4's after buying and trying their first one.

You are suggesting a non water relaunchable kite to a novice that has not yet learnt how to loop down wind.

It is a dangerous suggestion and should only be suggested to experienced individuals who have full kite control.

Where did you get that info? Been kiting regularly for 3+ years and loop down wind a lot. (maybe that means a novice to you though which is fair... I guess novice to me means not being able to do back/front rolls or boosts or keep an edge properly.

Sorry to offend Droop. Your questions were that of a novice in regards to downwind technique.

An experienced rider should fully understand downwind looping techniques, and kite selection.

This request is about selecting the appropriate power kite and a fast enough kite for the type of riding you want to do.
Any 3 strut, 1 strut, no strut wave/hydrofoil kite will perform the type of flying you need for your downwind antics.

Perhaps you also need to consider more kite gymastics to get your direct downwind riding style. Back stalled deep in the powerzone pivot loops a really good for running at the kite.

For an extreme example check out the cloud

Got one of those in my shed. I'm inspired!!!

Select to expand quote

eppo said..
Got one of those in my shed. I'm inspired!!!

When I get on my little 4m uno on the hydrofoil in i'm blazing those kite stunt kite style antics just ****s and giggles,,,, also the back stalled multiloop does give you a good downwindage angles. I smash that when im running wind swell thats blazing straight down wind.

Select to expand quote

SaveTheWhales said..
After arriving downwind 5 mins later - did you plan on swimming back upwind... or did you have some other skill as well..

haha increase the length of travel is my intention ;)

Select to expand quote

Plummet said..

drewpweiner said..

Plummet said..

drsurf said..

drewpweiner said..

drsurf said..

drewpweiner said..

Plummet said..
You don't state what type of riding you want to do. Do you want to mega boost your way downwind super-powered or do you want to ride waves with is little power as possible?


For boosting keep the 9m going for wave riding most definitely drop a size or 2.

On a side note if you cant loop effectively going downwind then you are overpowered in general. Use a 7m instead of a 9 in those same winds. You should be able to loop on the wave faces going dtl all the way up until stupid overpowered.

the type of riding i want ot do is a non-tick-tack/non-in-out/non-swing-the-kite-across-the-window-for-the-500th-time. I basically just want to be able to travel straight down wind and loop my kite constantly without worrying about

a) getting too much speed and having to tack to kill it off

b) keeping the loop constantly circling fast rather than it having to go back up to 12 every couple of loops because of the lack of resistance (from me not tacking or going sideways) making it fall out of the sky a bit. (hope that makes sense).

Hi Drew.
Try a Flysurfer Peak4 single skin foil kite. You can go downwind with them looping or not and they won't fall out of the sky even if you go straight at the kite. Even better on a hydrofoil where you'd use a 3m Peak4 in 25 knots. On a TT board a 4m or 5m Peak4 might be best sizewise depending on your weight. The Peak4 sits deep in the window and will pull you downwind better than most other kites.

Ahhhh so thats why I am seeing these people being able to downwind so easy on them! Thankyou!

Is this all foil kites around 4m/5m that will do it or is it specific to flysurfer peak4? I definitely have reservations about foil kites:

-can't water start if kite hits water

-5m foil kites probably slower to turn/loop than regular kites

-tangled kite lines on pack-up/unpack (there's so many of them!)

-kite luffing and completely collapsing only to end up in the water

The advantage is no pumping up/deflating though.. maybe you could correct me on this.

The characteristics are specific to the Peak4. They are single skin foil kites and weigh less than any other kite in a similar size. eg the 4m weighs 700gm and the 5m 880gm. They also have incredible power for their size and excellent depower.
Yes, they are primarily designed as snow and land kites but they work very well on water for foiling or downwind/wave kiting where you want plenty of drift. You haven't felt drift until you've tried a Peak4! They also loop and turn faster than comparable twinskin foil kites and even LEI kites.
They aren't designed for water relaunch but sometimes can be relaunched if you still have line tension. They won't hit the water unless you steer them there as they don't have a tendency to luff or fall from the sky even when you steer directly at the kite. They also retain steering control even at full depower going downwind. However don't go further out than you want to swim because you will hit the water sometimes. The kite can be packed up easily when down and stuffed into a small bag if required.
There aren't as many bridle lines on the Peak4's compared to a twin skin foil and they don't tend to tangle.

They only way to really determine if it works for you is to try one. They are also one of the least expensive kites you can buy and work on any 4 line bar with equal lines. The customers I've sold them to have often bought more Peak4's after buying and trying their first one.

You are suggesting a non water relaunchable kite to a novice that has not yet learnt how to loop down wind.

It is a dangerous suggestion and should only be suggested to experienced individuals who have full kite control.

Where did you get that info? Been kiting regularly for 3+ years and loop down wind a lot. (maybe that means a novice to you though which is fair... I guess novice to me means not being able to do back/front rolls or boosts or keep an edge properly.

This request is about selecting the appropriate power kite and a fast enough kite for the type of riding you want to do.
Any 3 strut, 1 strut, no strut wave/hydrofoil kite will perform the type of flying you need for your downwind antics.

Perhaps you also need to consider more kite gymastics to get your direct downwind riding style. Back stalled deep in the powerzone pivot loops a really good for running at the kite.

For an extreme example check out the cloud

Nice, had no idea struts made an impact on kite performance in that way. I still have no idea how the cloud in that video can stay dead horizontal with the water and not hit it. Its like I am seeing a magic trick! What's the reason for this? Also, is there any size difference for those types lesser strutted/struttless kites, (i.e. i ride an 8 or 9, so perhaps i should get a 5 or 6? for a twin tip)

Select to expand quote

drewpweiner said..

Plummet said..

drewpweiner said..

Plummet said..

drsurf said..

drewpweiner said..

drsurf said..

drewpweiner said..

Plummet said..
You don't state what type of riding you want to do. Do you want to mega boost your way downwind super-powered or do you want to ride waves with is little power as possible?


For boosting keep the 9m going for wave riding most definitely drop a size or 2.

On a side note if you cant loop effectively going downwind then you are overpowered in general. Use a 7m instead of a 9 in those same winds. You should be able to loop on the wave faces going dtl all the way up until stupid overpowered.

the type of riding i want ot do is a non-tick-tack/non-in-out/non-swing-the-kite-across-the-window-for-the-500th-time. I basically just want to be able to travel straight down wind and loop my kite constantly without worrying about

a) getting too much speed and having to tack to kill it off

b) keeping the loop constantly circling fast rather than it having to go back up to 12 every couple of loops because of the lack of resistance (from me not tacking or going sideways) making it fall out of the sky a bit. (hope that makes sense).

Hi Drew.
Try a Flysurfer Peak4 single skin foil kite. You can go downwind with them looping or not and they won't fall out of the sky even if you go straight at the kite. Even better on a hydrofoil where you'd use a 3m Peak4 in 25 knots. On a TT board a 4m or 5m Peak4 might be best sizewise depending on your weight. The Peak4 sits deep in the window and will pull you downwind better than most other kites.

Ahhhh so thats why I am seeing these people being able to downwind so easy on them! Thankyou!

Is this all foil kites around 4m/5m that will do it or is it specific to flysurfer peak4? I definitely have reservations about foil kites:

-can't water start if kite hits water

-5m foil kites probably slower to turn/loop than regular kites

-tangled kite lines on pack-up/unpack (there's so many of them!)

-kite luffing and completely collapsing only to end up in the water

The advantage is no pumping up/deflating though.. maybe you could correct me on this.

The characteristics are specific to the Peak4. They are single skin foil kites and weigh less than any other kite in a similar size. eg the 4m weighs 700gm and the 5m 880gm. They also have incredible power for their size and excellent depower.
Yes, they are primarily designed as snow and land kites but they work very well on water for foiling or downwind/wave kiting where you want plenty of drift. You haven't felt drift until you've tried a Peak4! They also loop and turn faster than comparable twinskin foil kites and even LEI kites.
They aren't designed for water relaunch but sometimes can be relaunched if you still have line tension. They won't hit the water unless you steer them there as they don't have a tendency to luff or fall from the sky even when you steer directly at the kite. They also retain steering control even at full depower going downwind. However don't go further out than you want to swim because you will hit the water sometimes. The kite can be packed up easily when down and stuffed into a small bag if required.
There aren't as many bridle lines on the Peak4's compared to a twin skin foil and they don't tend to tangle.

They only way to really determine if it works for you is to try one. They are also one of the least expensive kites you can buy and work on any 4 line bar with equal lines. The customers I've sold them to have often bought more Peak4's after buying and trying their first one.

You are suggesting a non water relaunchable kite to a novice that has not yet learnt how to loop down wind.

It is a dangerous suggestion and should only be suggested to experienced individuals who have full kite control.

Where did you get that info? Been kiting regularly for 3+ years and loop down wind a lot. (maybe that means a novice to you though which is fair... I guess novice to me means not being able to do back/front rolls or boosts or keep an edge properly.

This request is about selecting the appropriate power kite and a fast enough kite for the type of riding you want to do.
Any 3 strut, 1 strut, no strut wave/hydrofoil kite will perform the type of flying you need for your downwind antics.

Perhaps you also need to consider more kite gymastics to get your direct downwind riding style. Back stalled deep in the powerzone pivot loops a really good for running at the kite.

For an extreme example check out the cloud

Nice, had no idea struts made an impact on kite performance in that way. I still have no idea how the cloud in that video can stay dead horizontal with the water and not hit it. Its like I am seeing a magic trick! What's the reason for this? Also, is there any size difference for those types lesser strutted/struttless kites, (i.e. i ride an 8 or 9, so perhaps i should get a 5 or 6? for a twin tip)

Only used it twice so don't take my ideas too seriously but it has a crazy low end but doesn't like much loading on it. Let out the trim when loaded up and she flutters and flaps like a long time Bangkok hookers you know what.
Got to fly them not overly powered.
So for TT RIDING .... nah.

Select to expand quote

drewpweiner said..

Plummet said..

drewpweiner said..

Plummet said..

drsurf said..

drewpweiner said..

drsurf said..

drewpweiner said..

Plummet said..
You don't state what type of riding you want to do. Do you want to mega boost your way downwind super-powered or do you want to ride waves with is little power as possible?


For boosting keep the 9m going for wave riding most definitely drop a size or 2.

On a side note if you cant loop effectively going downwind then you are overpowered in general. Use a 7m instead of a 9 in those same winds. You should be able to loop on the wave faces going dtl all the way up until stupid overpowered.

the type of riding i want ot do is a non-tick-tack/non-in-out/non-swing-the-kite-across-the-window-for-the-500th-time. I basically just want to be able to travel straight down wind and loop my kite constantly without worrying about

a) getting too much speed and having to tack to kill it off

b) keeping the loop constantly circling fast rather than it having to go back up to 12 every couple of loops because of the lack of resistance (from me not tacking or going sideways) making it fall out of the sky a bit. (hope that makes sense).

Hi Drew.
Try a Flysurfer Peak4 single skin foil kite. You can go downwind with them looping or not and they won't fall out of the sky even if you go straight at the kite. Even better on a hydrofoil where you'd use a 3m Peak4 in 25 knots. On a TT board a 4m or 5m Peak4 might be best sizewise depending on your weight. The Peak4 sits deep in the window and will pull you downwind better than most other kites.

Ahhhh so thats why I am seeing these people being able to downwind so easy on them! Thankyou!

Is this all foil kites around 4m/5m that will do it or is it specific to flysurfer peak4? I definitely have reservations about foil kites:

-can't water start if kite hits water

-5m foil kites probably slower to turn/loop than regular kites

-tangled kite lines on pack-up/unpack (there's so many of them!)

-kite luffing and completely collapsing only to end up in the water

The advantage is no pumping up/deflating though.. maybe you could correct me on this.

The characteristics are specific to the Peak4. They are single skin foil kites and weigh less than any other kite in a similar size. eg the 4m weighs 700gm and the 5m 880gm. They also have incredible power for their size and excellent depower.
Yes, they are primarily designed as snow and land kites but they work very well on water for foiling or downwind/wave kiting where you want plenty of drift. You haven't felt drift until you've tried a Peak4! They also loop and turn faster than comparable twinskin foil kites and even LEI kites.
They aren't designed for water relaunch but sometimes can be relaunched if you still have line tension. They won't hit the water unless you steer them there as they don't have a tendency to luff or fall from the sky even when you steer directly at the kite. They also retain steering control even at full depower going downwind. However don't go further out than you want to swim because you will hit the water sometimes. The kite can be packed up easily when down and stuffed into a small bag if required.
There aren't as many bridle lines on the Peak4's compared to a twin skin foil and they don't tend to tangle.

They only way to really determine if it works for you is to try one. They are also one of the least expensive kites you can buy and work on any 4 line bar with equal lines. The customers I've sold them to have often bought more Peak4's after buying and trying their first one.

You are suggesting a non water relaunchable kite to a novice that has not yet learnt how to loop down wind.

It is a dangerous suggestion and should only be suggested to experienced individuals who have full kite control.

Where did you get that info? Been kiting regularly for 3+ years and loop down wind a lot. (maybe that means a novice to you though which is fair... I guess novice to me means not being able to do back/front rolls or boosts or keep an edge properly.

This request is about selecting the appropriate power kite and a fast enough kite for the type of riding you want to do.
Any 3 strut, 1 strut, no strut wave/hydrofoil kite will perform the type of flying you need for your downwind antics.

Perhaps you also need to consider more kite gymastics to get your direct downwind riding style. Back stalled deep in the powerzone pivot loops a really good for running at the kite.

For an extreme example check out the cloud

Nice, had no idea struts made an impact on kite performance in that way. I still have no idea how the cloud in that video can stay dead horizontal with the water and not hit it. Its like I am seeing a magic trick! What's the reason for this? Also, is there any size difference for those types lesser strutted/struttless kites, (i.e. i ride an 8 or 9, so perhaps i should get a 5 or 6? for a twin tip)

He's running towards the kite back stalling it. It's like a reverse launch while riding.

Oh and the guy is skilled that's hard as **** to do while riding.

I was working on that last year, and it is hard. But it's pretty fun to have a kite that you can play with like that. I was using a 6 Reo and the 4 Uno. I love pinwheeling the kite against the water as I go downwind with the kite. It really does make flying the kite fun while being on a foil.

Select to expand quote

Only used it twice so don't take my ideas too seriously but it has a crazy low end but doesn't like much loading on it. Let out the trim when loaded up and she flutters and flaps like a long time Bangkok hookers you know what.
Got to fly them not overly powered.
So for TT RIDING .... nah.

Select to expand quote

He's running towards the kite back stalling it. It's like a reverse launch while riding.

Oh and the guy is skilled that's hard as **** to do while riding.

Interesting, thanks for the replies guys. Still don't know what will solve the issue of trying to travel down wind without getting constant changes in pull/speed when the kite loops through the window. If I head straight down wind and the kite is at 12 I will pass my kite so that doesnt work. If i loop it then I'm getting surges power and lulls of no power as the kite loops through the power window.

To solve this issue above, it sounds like strutless riding like the cloud could be good to keep it in the power window without making it fall out of the sky (falls out of sky usually by me chasing the kite downwind faster than it can get there (removing the tension on the lines and making it hindenburg - even during loops).

However, as you've suggested eppo, they dont do well with twin tips for luffing issues when sheeted out.. however on another forum someone says "These kites require much less bar throw to achieve the same de power as a more conventional kite. So sheeting out 6-8 inches while flying the Cloud will get you what 12+ inches of throw does with your Cabrihna."

Also, as you've said Plummet, it takes wayyy too much skills to hold the kite in the window like that without dropping out and/or pinwheeling.

Or maybe i just have the wrong idea here and maybe strutless is exactly what I am looking for, or maybe i just needed a 5-7m kite on downwinders, i still have no idea.

You don't need a cloud to loop downwind smoothly. It's all technique. Start riding dw first then loop. Find the sweet spot of looping with minimal pull then but kite not falling out the sky.