I read all the yarns about bearing off downwind and sinking the heel in to carve upwind and jump...

What a croc of sheet!!

Does anyone who is not part of the "Herd",
know why this doesn't work for Big jumps?

I'm interested in answers from the big jumpers..

I hear all the dribble in the other thread here and think OMFG really

Turn horizontal speed into vertical speed without looseing energy.

This requires massive line tension and an instant release

Its all in the release. If you release that energy yourself it slacks the line and you dont transfer all the energy.

Get the kite to force you to release it by holding edge very strongly till cant anymore then scoop your legs like a wake boarder

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kookaburrahz said...
Turn horizontal speed into vertical speed without looseing energy.

This requires massive line tension and an instant release

Its all in the release. If you release that energy yourself it slacks the line and you dont transfer all the energy.

Get the kite to force you to release it by holding edge very strongly till cant anymore then scoop your legs like a wake boarder

Oh and your kotes trim...will instantly loose all that energy. Your kotes are designed to do this. So its easier being overpowered on an ineficient kite

Guy who jumps biggest around here doesn't bear off. Holds edge, sends on gust (which gives him some throw length), a slight noticeable stomp release, bar pulled in...at same time...single point of energy release. I'm still bearing off slightly, annoys me, like a bad driving habit. Find if I don't though the kites arc is sent lower though the window, giving more of a downwind vector jump than I'd like...suppose this is where the throw comes in.

So yeh..agree Overall.

By far the easiest way to go big is to find a shi t tone of wind, some flat to build speed leading into clean kickers at 90 deg to the wind. Anything else is just playing by comparison. Check out the king of air. That is exactly what they have.

You simply have no change going anywhere near as high without the kickers. Similarly if you cant go fast ei riding in chop, you can't boost super high either.

Good post STW and I agree with you . For some reason the idea of " bearing off downwind slightly before jumping" is really spreading around , some of the local guys I kite with think that it is the way. Plums has got it spot on , a small kicker that comes in at 90 degrees to the wind helps heaps

It comes from the need to develop released pop against a relatively non sent kite, aka C kite for unhooked tricks. Also when you don't have oodles of power for a kite size, it can help develop some greater vertical trajectory. Also useful when the board has lots of rocker, real round edges (harder to keep an edge). Also useful if ya riding a big ass mumma kite In lighter winds. But other than that, hold edge, use throw, get a gust ..send, stamp on the tail, then release all that energy. Upwards

Work out a way to measure your results objectively and try both techniques for yourself.

Both work and you will soon work out which one gives you the best results for your gear and conditions.

Who cares how you get up there.......

Look at Jesse and Dimitri, different styles to occomplish the same task. I for one would love to be able to consistantly get the height of these guys.

Personally I think the way Dimitri jumps is more consistent and easier to time. However the highest single jump in a session normally comes from trying Jesse's technique for me.

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eppo said..
It comes from the need to develop released pop against a relatively non sent kite, aka C kite for unhooked tricks. Also when you don't have oodles of power for a kite size, it can help develop some greater vertical trajectory. Also useful when the board has lots of rocker, real round edges (harder to keep an edge). Also useful if ya riding a big ass mumma kite In lighter winds. But other than that, hold edge, use throw, get a gust ..send, stamp on the tail, then release all that energy. Upwards

Just posted in the other similar thread and once again I say hold an edge, bearing off is just washing power off the kite, this works for small time wakey moves but not for going BIG

Pretty sure if you set up a bar with a strain gauge below your cleat, gopro helmet cam and a land camera. You will see the difference in tension on the lines and the resulting extra height.

The pro's that bear off a little, gain that little bit of extra speed that they then transfer into a little more height. Jesse Richman is an extreme example of this, he pops to his loading position eliminating water drag losses to maintain maximum momentum. For sure it also allows for the kite to cheat a little higher as well, but the end results speak for themselves.

Try both and measure your results, just don't try it once and say I doesn't work. Like everything in kiteboarding it takes practice.

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teabaggin said..
Good post STW and I agree with you . For some reason the idea of " bearing off downwind slightly before jumping" is really spreading around ,





thats because it also happens to be the correct instruction for how to unhook.... so person A asks how to unhook jump then person b answers then person c reads this and thinks oh this is how i jump and tells person d and person d happens to be several hundred people just browseing a forum trying to figure out how to jump higher and doesnt even unhook

Great input above - seemed to have stopped the "Herd" jumping off the Cliffs
Adding to the good tips..

If living in red bull jumptown - just aim straight at the wave and not much else

But for us - our normal river or ocean crap conditions..

Aggression
Just like when we were Noobs and scared to dive the kite hard on water starts, the same goes for bar input and hip twist / leg stomp - steady steady just wont work.

Board rail shape
A straighter edge with a reasonably square tail - will let you cut into water harder and faster with better grip, reducing wasted time and energy loss for the load n release. My jump board compared to my Monk, the monk slides sideways a little in the extreme edging, losing power... everything counts -

Fin size personal preference..
Try putting a larger well shaped fin, on the heel side and smaller one one the toe, its all about the stomp grip combined with the edge - minimizing time and washout.

Kite
A good jump kite..

Wind Gusts your best friend
Its all about that one big arz gust that will get you over that 5m mark lol, always look for the frizzle patterned wind line charging across the water - try to intersect it just a tad early at max board speed, as soon as you feel it grab the kite... send the kite hard and use your waterspeed to realease the board, pull the bar full in a split second after the boards released - full power is then used to rip you upwards and not unstick you from the water.

Where is the best Ramp
What you should look for is small white caps on the wind swell that will line up with the gust line - behind the white cap will be a trough and hopefully a smooth ramp to launch off, as in surfing - learn to read the water to help you get your timing right.
If you have ocean swell - then count...

So if its 35nots with a gust to 45 - youll be up there with this grin

Safety - Wear a helmet and thick wakeboarding vest untill you got it down... did I mention the fishpole at the top ?

One of a million ways - ideas are good, Capetowns better

I only know about two people willing to PROPERLY send it in 45+ knots. (I'm not one of them)
This is seriously terrifying stuff, skill level means nothing in those conditions, you have to be completely nuts and not afraid to die.

That's when the Adrenalin kicks in, and makes the scenery look good when the magic Elevator pulls you up maybe once twice or three times...

Be sure to keep that bar in so the gust doesn't try to invert your kite if riding with a few sizes bigger than norm..

As a side issue I've had a WOO from the start and have been experimenting with many of the tips provided above, but was unable to get any higher than low 7 mtrs no matter what conditions I was out in or what kite I used. Since Dec I've dropped 10 kg in weight and I'm now finding that low 8's are easily archived in a good session, definitely has made a difference for me

Good effort on the weight loss Dean, Did you do anything specific to achive the weight loss?

Doc put me on a fat blocking drug, xenical and then it was just a case of cutting down on my food intake and exercising, i was eating more than I needed

Well done Dean, I lost 15 kilos in 6 months but did it with green smoothies for breakfast, and only ate dinner. No beer, no bread. Everything about my kiting improved from losing that weight. It's amazing what a beast a 10 meter kite becomes again. Traveling through Europe absolutely hammered me from all the bread, cheese, wine, etc. Don't want to go down that road again....

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deanrobi said..
xenical

Any unwanted anal leakage?

Dean

Do you kite overpowered - for your weight?

Jumping?

WTF is that? If you're not mowing the lawn, you're just not kiting.

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kookaburrahz said..
Turn horizontal speed into vertical speed without looseing energy.

This requires massive line tension and an instant release

Its all in the release. If you release that energy yourself it slacks the line and you dont transfer all the energy.

Get the kite to force you to release it by holding edge very strongly till cant anymore then scoop your legs like a wake boarder

Best explanation yet - re: line tension

The best jumps I've had are when I am actually just overpowered.

ie: 12m kite for 15knots is not going to give me a big jump. 12m kite in 20-25knots - now we're talking!

All good thanks Kami, lots of prior planning

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SaveTheWhales said...
Dean

Do you kite overpowered - for your weight?

Save the whales I'm currently 80kg and I try to kite on the 12m North EVO when ever possible, it would be my go to kite. I average 3 kites a week throughout the year. I'm comfortable in the 18 - 23 knot wind range on the 12, I've been out in stronger but I find it too hard to edge and aggressively drive the kite up in the stronger winds. I have a 10mtr Evo for the Stronger days but here in Vic with our weather conditions I find I can get by on just those two kites. Occasionally we get stronger days 30+ knots and I have a Rebel 8m for those days but I find the hang time to be really reduced when using the 8, landings are a lot heavier and there is no improvement in height gained.

Save the Whales,

Not that I'm going anywhere as big as people in this thread, but your comment "pull the bar full in a split second after the boards released - full power is then used to rip you upwards and not unstick you from the water. " sounds exactly what I'm doing wrong.

I've been pulling the bar in on send up and found I'm just too powered to hold that edge until it rips me up and my jumps fluff hard.

Will try sending it with the bar out and then bar in on lift off.

Thank you.

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deanrobi said..
All good thanks Kami, lots of prior planning

They used to advertise it on TV in NZ, and that was one of the rapidly mentioned side-effects :D always got a giggle out of it . . . but if it works, good stuff!

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Sammyjay said...
Save the Whales,

Not that I'm going anywhere as big as people in this thread, but your comment "pull the bar full in a split second after the boards released - full power is then used to rip you upwards and not unstick you from the water. " sounds exactly what I'm doing wrong.

I've been pulling the bar in on send up and found I'm just too powered to hold that edge until it rips me up and my jumps fluff hard.

Will try sending it with the bar out and then bar in on lift off.

Thank you.

Yep you want the bar at a comfortable distance out with your elbows slightly bent, send the kite and sheet in as you leave the water or wave lip. Have been told a harder bar setting helps with the get up and go when sheeting in. Works for my Vegas kites anyway

DeanRobi

I understand all kites fly differently and at the 18-23knot range, your Woo height meter sounds about right +-...
For the 'stronger' winds you may have to pay more attention to fine trimming of the kite at full power, as everything is happening within a second. There is obviously a difference in trim between 20-25-30knots, backstall is the height enemy here, we get all excited about the jump but are killing the kite

Trim the kite for max wind speed on the water - your jumping not Lawn Mowing...

At max speed, Just before you jump
let the bar out just enough so the kite will fly forward to the edge of the window (while maintaining its shape and line tension - a big kite will produce a lot of natural wind drag at high winds, trying to pull it downwards and back)
The steering will become lighter for that few seconds
This will also let you initiate the load and pop solving the "find it too hard to edge and aggressively drive the kite up" problem..
Then slam that bar in, your trim will give you better lift..

Try jumping into the wind a little more to avoid the floaty flat jumps

For the 8 and 12, learn how to heli loop just before landing - it takes the meteorite impact out of it 0r steer the kite backward and dive it hard forward just before landing to create lift for that buttersoft style.

Your weights not an issue - my friend Robin from The Pond, goes huge on a 10m at around 110 kg ?

SammyJay

Over the Handle bars hey :) we all remember that stuff. Try some of the above..

Also a good exercise, that I always do at the beginning of a session - is the Max speed Load n Pop with the kite at 45 degrees.
It helps to get into the co-ordination groove again - play with the line tension and board angles BUT keep the kite still.
It will help you find that sweet spot again

Guess what happens when you add the kite to it


Let us know how you all get on

Save the Whales,

Not so much over the handlebars any more, but it does feel like im leg pressing a truck as the load is insane.
With so much load in my legs and board I'd find riding through any chop very difficult, so I'd lose my edge either from the chop or the load and my launch would be average at best. I think this is why lately I'd been having my best jumps in lighter winds (18-22 kts) on my bigger kite as there'd be less load and the size of the kite would compensate for my **** technique.

Time to get back out there and practice practice practice.

Sammyjay

Sometimes too much kite and the board width/ stiffness / rocker - combined with chop will get that lactic acid burn in you legs like their really on fire, good thing your in the water tell us your setup, others with experience on that gear - may be able to offer some helpful tips..

Be sure to look for those odd bigger white caps, it usually happens when the wind swell / wave is steeper than the rest and blows the top off and have noted them to appear is a small narrow sets of 2-3..

Practice that 45 load n pop but do a small hop before the load n pop - so you land immediately into the load phase.
This at speed, will let you jump a few chop slop waves and land in the trough behind the white cap (which will be smooth)
smacking out the pop move!

Check out the opening clip of Jesse doing the small hop - its quite clear, with a little imagination, how it can be used to clear the chop in the run up..