Hi,
Is anyone able to shed light on how bladder ends work. There seems to be two main methods, the fold over method, where I gather the bladder fills to the point of the fold, rather than to the end of the actual bladder.

The other method is the elastic tuck method used in zip ends where the bladder tucks under some elastic. With this method the bladder fills to the point where it gets tucked under, although I'd imagine the elastic would stretch meaning you could end up with a sausage situation happening in the end.

Is one method more susceptible to end blow outs than another.

Thanks.

The fold over and velcro method used on the bottom end of most struts is not common on most LE ends.
The elastic tuck is the most used method on the LE ends.
I've always been a bit worried about damaging the bladder trying to get the end out and in through these elastic ends.
So instead I just do what you do with the top end of the strut bladder.
That is invert the end of the bladder (push it inside itself) and allow the bladder to naturally fill the end when you inflate it.
The above video talks about losing the bladder but I've never lost or blown an end using the inside out method.
And I do a lot of crashes.

The problems I've had with the 'tuck in' method is having the bladder end not properly even and so a small bubble forms risking a blowout. I mean by 'even' as meaning there is no risk of a gap between the bladder end and the actual end of the LE. I prefer the fold or roll method as it stops bubbles forming, again as long as there is no gap. The elastic ring around the bladder end on some kites has been known to harden or loose its elasticity and that in itself risks punctures onto the bladder end area. The inside out technique is also the better way to do it, but to be careful when inflating that the bladder has actually un-inverted firmly to the end of the LE itself.
Either way I found the folding ends technique guarantees no blow outs as the bladder literally unrolls to the end of the LE point.
Not sure where you got the notion that most LE kites have an elastic end. Most I've seen require one to fold the bladder end and tuck that over again inside the velcro end.

Tried this
But my kite flew like a dog

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DylanJamo said..
The problems I've had with the 'tuck in' method is having the bladder end not properly even and so a small bubble forms risking a blowout. I mean by 'even' as meaning there is no risk of a gap between the bladder end and the actual end of the LE. I prefer the fold or roll method as it stops bubbles forming, again as long as there is no gap. The elastic ring around the bladder end on some kites has been known to harden or loose its elasticity and that in itself risks punctures onto the bladder end area. The inside out technique is also the better way to do it, but to be careful when inflating that the bladder has actually un-inverted firmly to the end of the LE itself.
Either way I found the folding ends technique guarantees no blow outs as the bladder literally unrolls to the end of the LE point.
Not sure where you got the notion that most LE kites have an elastic end. Most I've seen require one to fold the bladder end and tuck that over again inside the velcro end.

Sorry should have said most of the ones I've worked on have elastic ends.
You said "Either way I found the folding ends technique guarantees no blow outs as the bladder literally unrolls to the end of the LE point."
Would you do this when the LE end isn't set up for a fold and velcro?

In my experience, the fold over method is more prone to having issues. Sometimes its the design, fat wide ends at the tip mean large flaps and these just don't hold the bladder secure enough and as Jeff says if the bladder comes out of the flap when the kite is deflated and rolled up it will blow out when reinflated.
The elastic sewn in the end is the most secure method, never seen one come out.

One of the posts further down suggests that you can just fold the bladder back inside itself and when it inflates the air pushed the bladder right into the tip, in theory. In practice, you will get a tip blowout if you use this method, guaranteed.

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Ozone Kites Aus said..
In my experience, the fold over method is more prone to having issues. Sometimes its the design, fat wide ends at the tip mean large flaps and these just don't hold the bladder secure enough and as Jeff says if the bladder comes out of the flap when the kite is deflated and rolled up it will blow out when reinflated.
The elastic sewn in the end is the most secure method, never seen one come out.

One of the posts further down suggests that you can just fold the bladder back inside itself and when it inflates the air pushed the bladder right into the tip, in theory. In practice, you will get a tip blowout if you use this method, guaranteed.

I use the fold inside out method in my ozones and have never blown a bladder end.

Just saying that over the years I've repaired a lot of kites and the no 1 cause of bladders blowing at the tips is that the bladder has moved during a deflation/pack up/bounce around in the car/reinflate, so it pops and the poor kiters session does not even get started. The elastic in the tip on an Ozone kite is there for a reason and I just recommend that it gets used.
Happy Holidays!

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FlyByKite said..

DylanJamo said..
The problems I've had with the 'tuck in' method is having the bladder end not properly even and so a small bubble forms risking a blowout. I mean by 'even' as meaning there is no risk of a gap between the bladder end and the actual end of the LE. I prefer the fold or roll method as it stops bubbles forming, again as long as there is no gap. The elastic ring around the bladder end on some kites has been known to harden or loose its elasticity and that in itself risks punctures onto the bladder end area. The inside out technique is also the better way to do it, but to be careful when inflating that the bladder has actually un-inverted firmly to the end of the LE itself.
Either way I found the folding ends technique guarantees no blow outs as the bladder literally unrolls to the end of the LE point.
Not sure where you got the notion that most LE kites have an elastic end. Most I've seen require one to fold the bladder end and tuck that over again inside the velcro end.

Sorry should have said most of the ones I've worked on have elastic ends.
You said "Either way I found the folding ends technique guarantees no blow outs as the bladder literally unrolls to the end of the LE point."
Would you do this when the LE end isn't set up for a fold and velcro?

No. I don't because personally, I think the elastic ring and the zipper on the ends are a crappy system prone to blow outsm with all due respect Ozone.
Why? Because depending on wear and tear, some of those zips have been known to unzip themselves after a kite crash for example and the bladder pops out and pop! The elastic ring could act as a pinch effect on the bladder too and cause the bladder to pop. The velcro ends is the best system IMO.
When I have to repair bladders without the velcro ends, I would simple fold (not roll) the tip, gently lower it into the leading edge past the zipper and pull the fold through the elastic to the other end and leave it. do not scrunch it or unroll it by hand etc. pump up the kite gently, feel for any twists, fix them, repump, and again feel for twists and no gaps on the tips of the leading edge. the bladder will naturally extend and the elastic ring will expand allowing the tip of the bladder to unfold itself until it touches the end of the tip of your kite. that's the theory anyway. Like Ozone said, the elastic ring is crucial to stop the tips from twisting and possibly trapping air bubbles which will pop, after a deflate and reinflate. but like I said, the velcro system is way better because the tip of the bladder is for ever held in one spot. it will never move.
Look either method is fine, as long as it's done correctly!

I think the biggest takeaway from this conversation isnt how or why a brand does what it does, but how we should always watch how our LE looks as we inflate it. This is the only real way to prevent velco/elastic failure type blowouts.