I think the speedometer needs calibrating

I have serious doubts that the kitesurfer in the video would be able to reach 93 KM/H in those sorts of conditions (on-shore choppy waves on what looks like your average twin tip and what looks like your average 20 knots of wind). Considering the World Speed Record is slightly over 100 Km/H in butter flat water with roughly 40-50 knots winds and a specially designed speed board...

Nissan leaf is $54,000 for a car that looks boring, goes slow, can't fit much stuff in, and only goes 315km before taking at least 30min to refuel. You aren't saving the earth anyway in WA, most of our electrcity is coal fired.

Also when the battery range starts to get poor you are up for $8,000 in about 10 years time. That's wayyyy more than getting your timing belt or injectors done.

Nissan isn't known for its great ads.
That one's just dumb.

Old mates fully depowered also

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wishy said..
Nissan leaf is $54,000 for a car that looks boring, goes slow, can't fit much stuff in, and only goes 315km before taking at least 30min to refuel. You aren't saving the earth anyway in WA, most of our electrcity is coal fired.

Also when the battery range starts to get poor you are up for $8,000 in about 10 years time. That's wayyyy more than getting your timing belt or injectors done.

You are aware that HUGE amounts of electricity is used during the process of refining petrol aren't you? You don't just dig it up and pump it into your tank. The refinery near me has a substation that uses the same amount of electricity as a city of 250 000 people.

If you are worried about a battery upgrade you could offset the cost against servicing savings. Lot less moving parts in an electric vehicle to repair if anything does go wrong.

However, if you really want to blacken the name of electric cars you want to start going into the laughable cyber security of them. People were able to remotely turn on and off peoples A/C and drain the battery. That's the stuff you want to be bringing up.

It's pretty cool that Old Mate still has time to trick it up and pop a little air while hitting 91 KMPH...

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wishy said..
only goes 315km before taking at least 30min to refuel.

The average car trip in Australia is 36.4 km per day. For the average family who live in a capital city and return home at the end of each day, plugging in is gotta be more convinient than having to pull into a servo once a week (and parting with $50-70). For the once in a blue moon road trip vacation, yeah the range would let you down. But then most families have 2 cars.

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Phoney said..

wishy said..
only goes 315km before taking at least 30min to refuel.

The average car trip in Australia is 36.4 km per day. For the average family who live in a capital city and return home at the end of each day, plugging in is gotta be more convinient than having to pull into a servo once a week (and parting with $50-70).

Good point, also a good point about the refinery using so much electricity.
Unforunately the reality is, that only super rich , super ethical people are going to pay $54k for a hell boring slow car that can't get them to their holiday destination.

Personally I'm looking forward to more PHEV's to come onto the market. Up to 50km range on battery before the petrol engine kicks in. Which covers the daily commute to work, trips to the beach or random trips around town without spending a cent on fuel, but has the capability to get to holiday destinations on a single tank.

I looked at the Mitsubishi Outlander but it's a bit ho-hum. Next year there'll be a lot more options. But I just bought a new car :(

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Phoney said..
Personally I'm looking forward to more PHEV's to come onto the market. Up to 50km range on battery before the petrol engine kicks in. Which covers the daily commute to work, trips to the beach or random trips around town without spending a cent on fuel, but has the capability to get to holiday destinations on a single tank.

I looked at the Mitsubishi Outlander but it's a bit ho-hum. Next year there'll be a lot more options. But I just bought a new car :(

When you pay $10-20k more for a batteries and electric motor and compare that against the petrol saving of 1-2L/100km over 100k there's not much in it.

Drove a Forester hybrid, boring to say the least. Only gets to 9km/h with engine off, and I only got about 2L/100km less than the equivalent 2.5L engine. Subaru has gone all soft with CVT, no longer do turbos or manuals.

Mine's fully electric up to 25kph as long as I'm peddling, all terrain, gets 80km to a charge and can cart all my kite gear.

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KIT33R said..
Mine's fully electric up to 25kph as long as I'm peddling, all terrain, gets 80km to a charge and can cart all my kite gear.

Great setup, although you probably want to know the right kite size before you head down. A trailer might be more practical...

I like the little step attached to strap plugs - might try that idea.

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Peahi said..

KIT33R said..
Mine's fully electric up to 25kph as long as I'm peddling, all terrain, gets 80km to a charge and can cart all my kite gear.

Great setup, although you probably want to know the right kite size before you head down. A trailer might be more practical...

I like the little step attached to strap plugs - might try that idea.

Thanks Peahi, I wish I had a trailer but the bikes go on the back of the motorhome so space is limited. I can fit 2 kites into a backpack so well sorted. The little step lets my know where to put my back foot when foiling.

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Phoney said.. The average car trip in Australia is 36.4 km per day. For the average family who live in a capital city and return home at the end of each day, plugging in is gotta be more convinient than having to pull into a servo once a week (and parting with $50-70). For the once in a blue moon road trip vacation, yeah the range would let you down. But then most families have 2 cars.

But its not the once in a blue moon, its the number of people doing country trips daily that is the deal breaker.

I saw the maths done, from Perth to Albany (450km or so) and the numbers of cars doing it each day, we'd need a petrol station replaced with a spot that has around 100 charging bays instead of 6 bowsers. That untenable.
Of course servo's will want to make money and I bet they will charge a heap to plug in.

Electric will still need to be the exception, not the norm, in most of Australia.



As the the power required to refine fuel - yes. But the flip side is also true - need to dig up rare earths and various common ores to make the massive amounts of batteries required if everything was electric.

I don't think its a 'deal breaker'. I think that people will just choose what is suitable for their situation - not massively dissimilar from choosing petrol or diesel now.

If you are going to cruise down the freeways then diesel makes a lot sense. For short trips where the engine isn't getting up to temperature its not such a good choice as you'll end up paying for new particulate filters every couple of years.

Ultimately Australia isn't America so the push towards cleaner air and renewable transport isn't going to be sidelined so readily. You'll start to see cities introduce EV incentives (like the LEZ in London) and the change will come.

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Mark _australia said..

But its not the once in a blue moon, its the number of people doing country trips daily that is the deal breaker.

I saw the maths done, from Perth to Albany (450km or so) and the numbers of cars doing it each day, we'd need a petrol station replaced with a spot that has around 100 charging bays instead of 6 bowsers. That untenable.
Of course servo's will want to make money and I bet they will charge a heap to plug in.

Electric will still need to be the exception, not the norm, in most of Australia.

Sorry no. Most people who live in cities (which is 89% of Australians) don't do country trips daily or even weekly. I personally could probably count on one hand the number of times a year I drive to the country. (Though that will probably change in the next 6 - 12 months since I can't travel O/S)

For a run around town car, shopping, commute, etc which is probably what 99% of the hatchbacks & compact SUVs you see on the road are used for, EV's are already perfectly suited. It's just the price point that needs to come down, and it is coming down. For those who travel further distances, such as Perth to Albany or whatevs, EV's have still got a way to go. Though Tesla model 3 for eg have ranges of 460, 560 & 620 km - depending on which variant you get: www.caradvice.com.au/830360/2020-tesla-model-3-standard-range-plus-review/

But look how far they've come in the last 5 years. Tesla is now worth more than Ford & GM, the investors know where the future lays. Chinese have reversed engineered (stolen) Tesla's ideas and their EVs will hit the market in the next 5 years, further driving down costs.

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wishy said..

Phoney said..

wishy said..
only goes 315km before taking at least 30min to refuel.

The average car trip in Australia is 36.4 km per day. For the average family who live in a capital city and return home at the end of each day, plugging in is gotta be more convinient than having to pull into a servo once a week (and parting with $50-70).

Good point, also a good point about the refinery using so much electricity.
Unforunately the reality is, that only super rich , super ethical people are going to pay $54k for a hell boring slow car that can't get them to their holiday destination.

Our lives are as they are because of industry/refineries. Without the industrial revolution there would be no kiteboarding or the living standard we take for granted. Kite gear is a by product of industrial advance (there's a big chemical plant in every kit). But we gotta get rid of the CO2 in atmosphere. So crank the renewables, build 20 nuke power plants, and a build a big electric car, truck and train factory and make them cheap for Aussies. Australia zero emissions! simples!

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Phoney said..

Sorry no. Most people who live in cities (which is 89% of Australians) don't do country trips daily or even weekly. I personally could probably count on one hand the number of times a year I drive to the country. (Though that will probably change in the next 6 - 12 months since I can't travel O/S)

For a run around town car, shopping, commute, etc which is probably what 99% of the hatchbacks & compact SUVs you see on the road are used for, EV's are already perfectly suited. It's just the price point that needs to come down, and it is coming down. For those who travel further distances, such as Perth to Albany or whatevs, EV's have still got a way to go. Though Tesla model 3 for eg have ranges of 460, 560 & 620 km - depending on which variant you get: www.caradvice.com.au/830360/2020-tesla-model-3-standard-range-plus-review/

But look how far they've come in the last 5 years. Tesla is now worth more than Ford & GM, the investors know where the future lays. Chinese have reversed engineered (stolen) Tesla's ideas and their EVs will hit the market in the next 5 years, further driving down costs.

Its irrelevant how many people live in cities, the simple math is that on one main highway in WA that goes to a large regional city, we'd need 100 charging stations halfway. (If everyone had electric). There is that many cars doing that trip each day.

So we need a massive infrastructure input if we go electric. Or, people who used to have one car now have two (if they go to the bush say once a week or more)

All I'm saying is it is not as easy as just a sweeping change to electric, and the practicalities are often a big eye opener when somebody actually calculates what's needed.

What we need is price to come down as you say, combined with the free clean energy of nuclear everywhere. We can shoot the waste to the sun or bury it 1000km from nowhere.

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Kamikuza said..
Nissan isn't known for its great ads.
That one's just dumb.

Well, they had to get ahead of their competition's fake news that the Nissan Leak would be burnt off the line, and blown away over distance

Can over come the slow charging times. You don't have charging stations on the highways or around town. You have battery change out stations. All the vehicles made at the giant nuclear powered Aussie electric vehicle factory have the same battery. Little cars have one battery, big cars two, fast cars four, trucks eight. You still have charging station at home, and a spare battery.

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oldbones said..
Can over come the slow charging times. You don't have charging stations on the highways or around town. You have battery change out stations. All the vehicles made at the giant nuclear powered Aussie electric vehicle factory have the same battery. Little cars have one battery, big cars two, fast cars four, trucks eight. You still have charging station at home, and a spare battery.

There was an Israeli company (Better Place) that had that idea years ago. In the end they failed and the company folded, for a few reasons, but mainly because they couldn't get car manufacturers to agree on using a single standardised battery type across all makes and models.

Battery capacity, longevity, weight, cost and recharging times are going to be the major selling point of difference between different cars, so why would you choose a BMW over a cheap Hyundai if the one of the main driving components is exactly the same across all ranges?

Secondly battery tech is constantly improving and evolving. By the time they setup a swap & go network around the country, those batteries would already be superseded, so they would have to start stocking a second type of battery for all the newer cars. After 10 years there would be 10 different battery types that would need to be stocked by each servo and on and on... It's bad enough now we have LPG, Diesel, and 3 or 4 flavours of petrol.

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Mark _australia said..

So we need a massive infrastructure input if we go electric.

It still has a long way to go (obviously as the EV market share is what 3% or something) but it's already there you'd expect that to keep growing in response to market demand.

electricvehiclecouncil.com.au/about-ev/charger-map/y

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Phoney said..

oldbones said..
Can over come the slow charging times. You don't have charging stations on the highways or around town. You have battery change out stations. All the vehicles made at the giant nuclear powered Aussie electric vehicle factory have the same battery. Little cars have one battery, big cars two, fast cars four, trucks eight. You still have charging station at home, and a spare battery.

There was an Israeli company (Better Place) that had that idea years ago. In the end they failed and the company folded, for a few reasons, but mainly because they couldn't get car manufacturers to agree on using a single standardised battery type across all makes and models.

Battery capacity, longevity, weight, cost and recharging times are going to be the major selling point of difference between different cars, so why would you choose a BMW over a cheap Hyundai if the one of the main driving components is exactly the same across all ranges?

Secondly battery tech is constantly improving and evolving. By the time they setup a swap & go network around the country, those batteries would already be superseded, so they would have to start stocking a second type of battery for all the newer cars. After 10 years there would be 10 different battery types that would need to be stocked by each servo and on and on... It's bad enough now we have LPG, Diesel, and 3 or 4 flavours of petrol.

Think external dimensions of unit battery could remain the same for a long time, just what's inside changes. It doesn't matter about battery capacity so much, you only pay for what is used out of battery being swapped out (each battery would need a meter maybe)

All these ideas seem sensible, until someone says;
Hyundai i30 $22,990, 7 year warranty, uses hardly any petrol, can be refilled in 2 minutes anywhere.

Of course we all know for kiting and windsurfing it's nice to have something a little bigger....

I know, it was my safe the planet plan, didn't really get traction. Gunna go back to working on my gybe

That video is hilarious. He's on a super massive kite because the wind is so light. They are maxxing out at maybe 40 kph.
Super funny.

Now here's my old man rant about e-cars. Why the hell dont they have in built solar panels on the roof? That way it could trickle charge all day long. Ok, it might only charge it a teny tiny bit. But so what. That might give you an extra few km of range.

Now my requirement if an e-vehicle is to be able to drive 8 hours non stop to the sand dunes (about 600km away). Park up and camp in the dunes for 5 days then drive home without an external charge. When a ute can do that, im all in.

Fisker Ocean - solar on roof, 480km range


Rivian R1T - range 640km


Cybertruck - range 800km ?