I know this questions has been asked in various forms many times, but I am still at a loss as to what I should do.
My situation:
I live at Syd Northern Beaches, where winds are often in the 12 knot area and usually no one or hardly anyone out as a result.
My largest kite is a 12m BWS noise, I'm about 85kg and have a 140 TT as well as a Skimboard from LF which is fun, but I'm not confident with it in waves.

My question is, I would like to get out in those ~12knot days and am wondering if I need to upgrade to a larger kite (=more expensive, more hassle, slower turning) or go for a specific light wind board that allows me to go out on my 12 (= less expensive, less hassle, can use my 12 as my max size).

Or is the answer a combination of both (= most expensive, least desired option)?

What would your recommendations be for those light wind conditions?
Thanks in advance.

I flat out dislike riding light wind boards. I'll ride a directional strapless like the Shinnster which is heaps of fun but for the most part I just ride my wakestyle board with boots. Light wind kites open up the sub 15 knot world. I can do unhooked tricks on an Ozone Zephyr, Cab Contra, or LF Solo 15.5 in 10-12 knots with good power. So much fun and makes those marginal days great for learning new tricks. Big kites are nothing like they used to be. Come in to KP if you want to take a big kite for a demo on a light wind day!

grab an old surfboard for $100 and learn to go strapless, its not like you can boost properly in light winds anyway

On a recent trip to the NSW north coast I kited nearly every day. When it was light (pre white caps) I'd use either the 12m Liquid Force Solo (single strut) or my 10m Reo on the Shinnster board. I could stay up wind and play around on small waves with this combination. The Reo is fast and good for using apparent wind where as the Solo is more a "park and ride" kite in light wind. I put the Solo away at 15 knots. The Shinnster has a long rail line, flat, and a lot of surface area making it easy to plane early and build speed. I'm 64kg which obviously helps too.

I had a quick go on a Ozone Zepher the other week, it is definitely a sweet kite. My light wind kite is best ts 15m, it's awesome at 12 -15 knots (wakestye with boots). But for lower the zepher is sic.
Definitely try a surfboard first. If that isn't enough grab a big kite.

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Drury said..
I flat out dislike riding light wind boards. I'll ride a directional strapless like the Shinnster which is heaps of fun but for the most part I just ride my wakestyle board with boots. Light wind kites open up the sub 15 knot world. I can do unhooked tricks on an Ozone Zephyr, Cab Contra, or LF Solo 15.5 in 10-12 knots with good power. So much fun and makes those marginal days great for learning new tricks. Big kites are nothing like they used to be. Come in to KP if you want to take a big kite for a demo on a light wind day!

Thanks a lot Elliot, I'll definitely do that. I suppose I need at least a 15+m kite for my weight then..

Hi Kajo

I took the plunge and got the Ozone Zephyr 17m as a backup. I use it with either a Jaime 139 or an old Cabrina 143 Twintip depending on how the wind develops. It has saved the day on a couple of trips already so I feel it was totally worth having in case the wind is light! I'm 105kg...

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kemp90 said..
I had a quick go on a Ozone Zepher the other week, it is definitely a sweet kite. My light wind kite is best ts 15m, it's awesome at 12 -15 knots (wakestye with boots). But for lower the zepher is sic.
Definitely try a surfboard first. If that isn't enough grab a big kite.

Thanks mate, yes I have a surfboard, although it may also be my skill level (beg-intermediate) that causes my light wind skills to be mediocre at best. Am wondering if it should be a 15m or 17m kite?? I've got a 9m and a 12m, and am happy with 3m increments.

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Driesdtl said..
Hi Kajo

I took the plunge and got the Ozone Zephyr 17m as a backup. I use it with either a Jaime 139 or an old Cabrina 143 Twintip depending on how the wind develops. It has saved the day on a couple of trips already so I feel it was totally worth having in case the wind is light! I'm 105kg...

What wind range does the Zephyr 17 allow you to cruise in? Esp. what min wind speed?

At the moment I need about 11 knots minimum ( Sure one could get this down with more light wind experience) and have had it out in 20 knots without issue.

G'day Kajo, I was recently pondering the same thing. I weigh 85kg and was riding my 12m Catalyst ok at around 16-17 knots on my TT. I went for North Nugget and it is awesome fun, but has only taken me down to about 14-15 knots. Those wind ranges are reasonably accurate as I measured in situ with a gauge. If I had my time again, I'd go for a lightwind specific kite as it's the kite dropping out of the sky when I lose apparent wind (which happens often enough if you're trying new things and stuffing them up), rather than any problem with the board.

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Kajo said..

Driesdtl said..
Hi Kajo

I took the plunge and got the Ozone Zephyr 17m as a backup. I use it with either a Jaime 139 or an old Cabrina 143 Twintip depending on how the wind develops. It has saved the day on a couple of trips already so I feel it was totally worth having in case the wind is light! I'm 105kg...

What wind range does the Zephyr 17 allow you to cruise in? Esp. what min wind speed?

11-22 knots. Seriously, the range is crazy.

That's amazing. Friday looks like it's gonna be pretty light wind, I may pop into KP then to demo one of them.

For occasional fun a mini mal surf board or small SUP is fun in very light wind and small surf.

Zephur is a boring kite at 12 knots. Go a big **** off foil. They rule the light wind.

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Kajo said..
I know this questions has been asked in various forms many times, but I am still at a loss as to what I should do.
My situation:
I live at Syd Northern Beaches, where winds are often in the 12 knot area and usually no one or hardly anyone out as a result.
My largest kite is a 12m BWS noise, I'm about 85kg and have a 140 TT as well as a Skimboard from LF which is fun, but I'm not confident with it in waves.

My question is, I would like to get out in those ~12knot days and am wondering if I need to upgrade to a larger kite (=more expensive, more hassle, slower turning) or go for a specific light wind board that allows me to go out on my 12 (= less expensive, less hassle, can use my 12 as my max size).

Or is the answer a combination of both (= most expensive, least desired option)?

What would your recommendations be for those light wind conditions?
Thanks in advance.

Something like this and the kite you have.
My largest kite is now an 11 and have done the 17 meter kite in the past and won't go back.
4 meter line extensions make a good difference to.
Anything under 12 knots at your weight you need light wind specific board and kite.
Just go for a surf or swim instead.

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Plummet said..
Zephur is a boring kite at 12 knots. Go a big **** off foil. They rule the light wind.

I like boring kites, I'd rather worry about my board and what I'm doing than steering a tiny kite, Zephyr is great.

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sir ROWDY said..

Plummet said..
Zephur is a boring kite at 12 knots. Go a big **** off foil. They rule the light wind.

I like boring kites, I'd rather worry about my board and what I'm doing than steering a tiny kite, Zephyr is great.

Of course it is

Wanna have a heap of fun on those typical 9-10 knot Sydney summer days? Get yourself a 9' malibu, put a 6" fin in the centre slot and grab just about any old kite. You'll have heaps of fun while everyone else sits on the beach waiting for the wind to kick in.

Cheapest first solution line extensions on your 12m or your smaller kite and just use your (prone) no wind surfboard.

Yender how much fun is the fish in light wind. I've a few varying volume fishes.
Closest thing I've found to a one board solution.

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dowls said..
Cheapest first solution line extensions on your 12m or your smaller kite and just use your (prone) no wind surfboard.

Only works to a point. You still have the same amount of sail in the air. A Zephyr on 20m lines (which I've flown and it's awesome fun) will still have heaps more pull than a 12m on 30m lines. Line extensions are cheaper though.

Good idea re line extensions. Do they have much of an impact at all? I.e. do they give me more bottom end in any way?

Also what's the idea behind it? Do you catch stronger winds higher up potentially that way?

... in my opinion coming from a wopper sized dude,,, get a bigger kite,,,, that way you get the power you want and use your same board your familiar with then get a bigger TT or Surfboard to switch things up later on! Not the cheapest way around it but you'll be grateful you did.

Kites like the Core XR3/4, Zephyr, Epic Infinity/Blade Fatlady or similar have amazing wind range, good in waves, quick light enough turning and of course, good power in the light stuff. Line extensions can help somewhat but not like a 17m can.

It's been ages since I tried a BWS but my memory tells me that it has similar bar pressure to the Zephyr or 17m Core so the worry of having a big slow cumbersome kite circa yesteryears kites is not valid. They turn great nowadays. You'll get the power you want for the less than stellar conditions and then you can progress to other more dedicated boards taking your new favourite kite with you.

Cheers,

Robbie :)

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dowls said..
Yender how much fun is the fish in light wind. I've a few varying volume fishes.
Closest thing I've found to a one board solution.

Thanks Dowls, can you make any recommendations of cheapish fish style boards please?

Longer lines, increase the size of the wind window, so the kite takes longer to travel through the power zone part of the wind window. So it does not produce more power on longer lines, it produces the same power for longer, which can give you a few knots, at most, better bottom end. You need to use at least 5-10M extensions on 25M lines to make it work.
Downside is the amount of room you need to launch and land safely, and in the surf they are a definitely a disadvantage, relaunching can take a lot longer if you drop the kite at the edge of the window.
Every kiter should see what happens to their kite when they put longer lines on, just so you understand the wind window better.
I have seen Jordan from Sydney at the windless nationals in Townsville a few years back stay upwind in around 7-10 knots on a 17 Edge with about 50M lines. Have also seen Lachlan Beed from Newcastle when we were in Vaunatu years ago 47M of kite (19/15/13 stacked) and about 45M of lines hold ground in about 7/8 knots. I've also land buggyed on 60M lines and once achieved 2+ times wind speed on a slightly downwind reach, people everywhere told me I was deluded, but now kites and foils are doing just that.
Long lines is an interesting thing to experience, but they are not magical and line drag eventually overcomes any gain and then you can only go downwind.

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TerryMcTool said..
Longer lines, increase the size of the wind window, so the kite takes longer to travel through the power zone part of the wind window. So it does not produce more power on longer lines, it produces the same power for longer, which can give you a few knots, at most, better bottom end. You need to use at least 5-10M extensions on 25M lines to make it work.
Downside is the amount of room you need to launch and land safely, and in the surf they are a definitely a disadvantage, relaunching can take a lot longer if you drop the kite at the edge of the window.
Every kiter should see what happens to their kite when they put longer lines on, just so you understand the wind window better.
I have seen Jordan from Sydney at the windless nationals in Townsville a few years back stay upwind in around 7-10 knots on a 17 Edge with about 50M lines. Have also seen Lachlan Beed from Newcastle when we were in Vaunatu years ago 47M of kite (19/15/13 stacked) and about 45M of lines hold ground in about 7/8 knots. I've also land buggyed on 60M lines and once achieved 2+ times wind speed on a slightly downwind reach, people everywhere told me I was deluded, but now kites and foils are doing just that.
Long lines is an interesting thing to experience, but they are not magical and line drag eventually overcomes any gain and then you can only go downwind.

Some loose science.....

Line extensions do make a big difference in amount of time you spend in the power window.

Assuming you can fly your kite from the edge of the wind window on your left to your right (180 degrees), with 20m lines, your kite travels 62.5 metres. With 27m lines, it now travels 84m..... So you have effectively spent an extra 20 to 25% of your time in the power window.

BUT .......

The downside is your kite will turn slower!!!! (tested and verified).

IMHO:
A fat fish style surfboard (~45 litres - 23 inches wide) + a 18m Foil Kite + 27m lines = sub 10 knots in flat water going upwind
A fat fish style surfboard (~45 litres - 23 inches wide) + a 19m LEI Kite/18m Foil Kite + 27m lines = 10 knots in small surf staying upwind (don't drift the foil kite!!!!)

Very different opinions here
Depends what you want, if you want to progress then a smaller kite with a surfboard or something like the shinnster would be fun
, with said winds and weight the zephyr is a fantastic kite, there's plenty that achieve the same low end, but crazy how stable and controllable this kite is when the others have long lost their upper limits, the 1st release was a ground breaker and looking at the kites we have now would be a bit dated, but in it's day was a ripper, the latter an latest is about as good as it gets as an all round lightwind, for me a bigger kite small board v a small kite big board is a no brainer, depending on what you want to do
Throw it ,don't mow it

For me, meaning the way I like to ride, a bigger board rather than a bigger kite is the best option. When you can throw a kite around as opposed to park-and-ride you generate power with every dive and turn over/under of the kite which is crucial in transitions on flat water and riding small waves. If you know me you'll know what I mean.

Who said you just 'park-and-ride' with a big kite.

" Park & Ride" in LW is so outdated. Maybe with the older 2009-10 era big kites but with advanced in kite design & weight reduction has brought proper powered up performance to the 15m+ category.

I have had so many great sessions in under 15kts, sessions that would never have happened a few years ago

I remember when i thought 13m was a big kite :) These days 17 - 21m is the go.