After a few months on Naish medium wing to help develop jybing skills I got the Carver back out.
Today on a 6.2m kite in 15 to 20kn wind I loved the Zeeko Carver again.
I have done some fine tuning to the Carver by tuning the stab aoa plus considerably reducing the size of the ventrical fin.
I can now still do the jybing skills I developed on the Naish but feel more secure at speed in stronger wind on the Carver.
The Naish medium is my ideal light wind 7 to 12kn foil and training wheels.
The Zeeko Carver is now for 15kn plus.
I am having a great journey and will soon go back to my KFA carbon foil.

The Carver will soon reach legendary status.

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RAL INN said..
The Carver will soon reach legendary status.

It can join me as just turned 72, ok said that again but blessed with every extra session I get.

What's the best thing about having Alzheimer's ?
you meet new friends everyday

Still digging my carver. (zeeko carbon foil, strapless pocket board, clouds 3.5-9m, 80kg)

I've ditched the fin entirely, mounted the stab 1cm further forward on the fuse, and cut off all the fuse that protruded behind the stab, and tapered what's left. Looser for sure, but still stable enough for me hitting decent speeds downwind in 25knots and the accompanying Port Phillip swell. Probably too loose for a beginner though.

Maybe one day I'll try a 633 but for now the carver still suits my penchant for being able to cover large distances quickly in light to moderate wind and ride swell once its a bit stronger.

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djdojo said..
Still digging my carver. (zeeko carbon foil, strapless pocket board, clouds 3.5-9m, 80kg)

I've ditched the fin entirely, mounted the stab 1cm further forward on the fuse, and cut off all the fuse that protruded behind the stab, and tapered what's left. Looser for sure, but still stable enough for me hitting decent speeds downwind in 25knots and the accompanying Port Phillip swell. Probably too loose for a beginner though.

Maybe one day I'll try a 633 but for now the carver still suits my penchant for being able to cover large distances quickly in light to moderate wind and ride swell once its a bit stronger.

What's the reasoning behind butchering a very functional and proven design?

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Livit said..

djdojo said..
Still digging my carver. (zeeko carbon foil, strapless pocket board, clouds 3.5-9m, 80kg)

I've ditched the fin entirely, mounted the stab 1cm further forward on the fuse, and cut off all the fuse that protruded behind the stab, and tapered what's left. Looser for sure, but still stable enough for me hitting decent speeds downwind in 25knots and the accompanying Port Phillip swell. Probably too loose for a beginner though.

Maybe one day I'll try a 633 but for now the carver still suits my penchant for being able to cover large distances quickly in light to moderate wind and ride swell once its a bit stronger.

What's the reasoning behind butchering a very functional and proven design?

Same logic as guys going and trying stabess and for guys that like to experiment.
People like him help the world progress.

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warwickl said..

Livit said..


What's the reasoning behind butchering a very functional and proven design?

Same logic as guys going and trying stabess and for guys that like to experiment.
People like him help the world progress.

Not sure what stabess means???

Nothing wrong about trying new things indeed but I guess there is a reasoning behind it and for having owned the same foil I am curious to know what he has achieved or was trying to improve by butchering the fuselage, that's all.

Stabless -- there's a small group of guys removing the horizontal stabilizer and fuselage behind the mast and just riding the wing.

Shorter fuselage ie. stab closer to wing, is more reactive to inputs and faster to react, with a bit more yaw stability.

he's heading there.

Wow - can that actually be ridden ?? What a brave move to cut the tail and staliliser off the fusulage!!

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warwickl said..
After a few months on Naish medium wing to help develop jybing skills I got the Carver back out.

I have not used my carver since getting the spitfire and XLW set about 9 months ago.


It is however, on my need to try again list when I get some spare time. Just hoping that the change back to normal setup comfort level will not take too long.

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max_ob said..

warwickl said..
After a few months on Naish medium wing to help develop jybing skills I got the Carver back out.

I have not used my carver since getting the spitfire and XLW set about 9 months ago.


It is however, on my need to try again list when I get some spare time. Just hoping that the change back to normal setup comfort level will not take too long.

I rode someone a friends foil yesterday to see how it performed as he is still in the learning phase. LF foil with big surf wing, not sure of the size. It was super slow, pumped really nicely, but didn't have smoothness that I am now used to on the Spitfire. Nor the speed. I think that what is impressive to me about the Canaard design, still fast enough but can be ridden so slow without stalling and recovery from venting is more likely. This was the first time in more than a year that I have tried a different type of foil and it did not feel any different getting up on the wing. You should be fine transitioning back to your Carver.

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max_ob said..

warwickl said..
After a few months on Naish medium wing to help develop jybing skills I got the Carver back out.

I have not used my carver since getting the spitfire and XLW set about 9 months ago.


It is however, on my need to try again list when I get some spare time. Just hoping that the change back to normal setup comfort level will not take too long.

I rode someone a friends foil yesterday to see how it performed as he is still in the learning phase. LF foil with big surf wing, not sure of the size. It was super slow, pumped really nicely, but didn't have smoothness that I am now used to on the Spitfire. Nor the speed. I think that what is impressive to me about the Canaard design, still fast enough but can be ridden so slow without stalling and recovery from venting is more likely. This was the first time in more than a year that I have tried a different type of foil and it did not feel any different getting up on the wing. You should be fine transitioning back to your Carver.

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dafish said..

max_ob said..

warwickl said..
After a few months on Naish medium wing to help develop jybing skills I got the Carver back out.

I have not used my carver since getting the spitfire and XLW set about 9 months ago.


It is however, on my need to try again list when I get some spare time. Just hoping that the change back to normal setup comfort level will not take too long.

I rode someone a friends foil yesterday to see how it performed as he is still in the learning phase. LF foil with big surf wing, not sure of the size. It was super slow, pumped really nicely, but didn't have smoothness that I am now used to on the Spitfire. Nor the speed. I think that what is impressive to me about the Canaard design, still fast enough but can be ridden so slow without stalling and recovery from venting is more likely. This was the first time in more than a year that I have tried a different type of foil and it did not feel any different getting up on the wing. You should be fine transitioning back to your Carver.

I find it harder going from standard to canard. But we are talking about a few small stalls to find the centre of balance and I am off and running.

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bigtone667 said..

dafish said..

max_ob said..

warwickl said..
After a few months on Naish medium wing to help develop jybing skills I got the Carver back out.

I have not used my carver since getting the spitfire and XLW set about 9 months ago.


It is however, on my need to try again list when I get some spare time. Just hoping that the change back to normal setup comfort level will not take too long.

I rode someone a friends foil yesterday to see how it performed as he is still in the learning phase. LF foil with big surf wing, not sure of the size. It was super slow, pumped really nicely, but didn't have smoothness that I am now used to on the Spitfire. Nor the speed. I think that what is impressive to me about the Canaard design, still fast enough but can be ridden so slow without stalling and recovery from venting is more likely. This was the first time in more than a year that I have tried a different type of foil and it did not feel any different getting up on the wing. You should be fine transitioning back to your Carver.

I find it harder going from standard to canard. But we are talking about a few small stalls to find the centre of balance and I am off and running.

Do you interchange what you ride often? When do you use one over the other?

I switched back to the medium Naish today from Zeeko Carver with no adjustment issue.

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dafish said..

bigtone667 said..

dafish said..

max_ob said..

warwickl said..
After a few months on Naish medium wing to help develop jybing skills I got the Carver back out.

I have not used my carver since getting the spitfire and XLW set about 9 months ago.


It is however, on my need to try again list when I get some spare time. Just hoping that the change back to normal setup comfort level will not take too long.

I rode someone a friends foil yesterday to see how it performed as he is still in the learning phase. LF foil with big surf wing, not sure of the size. It was super slow, pumped really nicely, but didn't have smoothness that I am now used to on the Spitfire. Nor the speed. I think that what is impressive to me about the Canaard design, still fast enough but can be ridden so slow without stalling and recovery from venting is more likely. This was the first time in more than a year that I have tried a different type of foil and it did not feel any different getting up on the wing. You should be fine transitioning back to your Carver.

I find it harder going from standard to canard. But we are talking about a few small stalls to find the centre of balance and I am off and running.

Do you interchange what you ride often? When do you use one over the other?

I go through phases. At the moment it is the big fat wing.

Next week I get a longer mast on the spitfire (currently have 60cm), it will back in vogue.

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bigtone667 said..

dafish said..

bigtone667 said..

dafish said..

max_ob said..

warwickl said..
After a few months on Naish medium wing to help develop jybing skills I got the Carver back out.

I have not used my carver since getting the spitfire and XLW set about 9 months ago.


It is however, on my need to try again list when I get some spare time. Just hoping that the change back to normal setup comfort level will not take too long.

I rode someone a friends foil yesterday to see how it performed as he is still in the learning phase. LF foil with big surf wing, not sure of the size. It was super slow, pumped really nicely, but didn't have smoothness that I am now used to on the Spitfire. Nor the speed. I think that what is impressive to me about the Canaard design, still fast enough but can be ridden so slow without stalling and recovery from venting is more likely. This was the first time in more than a year that I have tried a different type of foil and it did not feel any different getting up on the wing. You should be fine transitioning back to your Carver.

I find it harder going from standard to canard. But we are talking about a few small stalls to find the centre of balance and I am off and running.

Do you interchange what you ride often? When do you use one over the other?

I go through phases. At the moment it is the big fat wing.

Next week I get a longer mast on the spitfire (currently have 60cm), it will back in vogue.

And some inspiration

I still have not ever ridden a shorter mast. I see the value in learning with one as there are three locals at my place that have gone through that stage. One just moved up to the bigger mast and he was struggling mentally with the hight issue. I also think that balance is a little more twitchy the higher up you are.

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dafish said..
I still have not ever ridden a shorter mast. I see the value in learning with one as there are three locals at my place that have gone through that stage. One just moved up to the bigger mast and he was struggling mentally with the hight issue. I also think that balance is a little more twitchy the higher up you are.

I rode a 90cm mast for a few years and personally found carving slower/sluggish. Switch to 70cm and it was like a turbo got switched on. You have to concentrate harder on height management, but the improved responsiveness makes it worthwhile. Chop becomes a problem for masts below 70cm.

Still in the beginner-intermediate phase, but after just 15 minutes mucking about on a phat surf foil it is obvious your need three foils; a) phat one for waves and under 15kts, medium like a Carver (I have one, and love it) for 14-18kts, and a faster blade for above 18-20kts (like my Black and White). That said,. I think I'm just going to get a 3.5m kite so I can go on to waves with a phattie at 20kts-plus too. I use my 5m at 18kts, and it peaks at 22kts ... .

Interesting ..... i am using the phat foil for all conditions. I Just go down kites sizes now.... 13.4 down 3.7. Range of about 8 knots to 35 knots.

Phat is now the technical term for big shovel foils.

I could definitely see having a range of wings just like having a range of boards and kites.

I currently have a spitfire with xlw and small wings ( haven't tried the small wings yet) I will add an xl sup wing at some stage +suitable sup and I will have a full set for all my possible foiling needs, xlw for general strapless freeride and wave kiting, xl sup wings for light wind and waves+sup foiling and the regular spitfire wings for strapped higher winds and boosting!!

Or at least that's how I would like it to turn out, right now I am still trying to switch feet!

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warwickl said..
Phat is now the technical term for big shovel foils.

Yes. In my mind it both emulates a 'phat (smoking) joint' and 'she's gotta phat (good) arse'. Comfort and pleasure(s) all in one.
Just as in 'surface slapper' for non-foilers - and you can take 'slapper' to do, well anything you like, as she won't mind ....

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alverstone said..

warwickl said..
Phat is now the technical term for big shovel foils.

Yes. In my mind it both emulates a 'phat (smoking) joint' and 'she's gotta phat (good) arse'. Comfort and pleasure(s) all in one.
Just as in 'surface slapper' for non-foilers - and you can take 'slapper' to do, well anything you like, as she won't mind ....

I will be having a session on my phat wing today as breeze just hit a phat level.

I go the other way, small fast wing in lighter conditions, much nicer to ride when the water conditions are reasonably flat. When it is blowing I use my phat wing and a tiny kite. Much easier to keep under control and lots of chop to play in.