AdfreeTv - Ive only had 2 goes on my foil which is the Spotz 2 (so maybe 2 hrs?) and I feel your pain !
My conditions have been far from perfect - 1st was 15 knots and choppy and the 2nd too light so just struggling to keep the kite flying.
Getting the board into position is a PITA after riding a surfboard for so long, but I'm getting my head around that .

I found that once up on the board and trying to 'surface ride' the board - it seems to have a mind of its own in terms of direction !! I realised that I was trying to control direction by leaning the board (changing weight rail to rail) similar to the surfboard and that just doesnt work!!! How have you got that direction control sorted ?? Ive read its more of a hip rotation or skate board approach ? Its driving me nuts that I stand up on the board and it starts to go one way and I go the other LOL - Grrr

I have seen a few beginner foilers that tend to try and position boards straight across as they would aTT.
this seems to result in the board rounding up as they start.
the fin effect of the mast loves this and will help the round up happen.
try positioning the board to the side of you nose down wind opposite side to the direction you wish to start.
then front foot on or in keeping kite on same side of wind window as board.
then back foot in position or use knee first to push back of board to a distance to let you get back foot on.
then it is back to that perennial thing about kiteboarding, Kite Control.
during water start it's a bit like wakeboard start where you force board in the direction you want it to go by a good twist(yaw).

key points are
1. Kite control
2. Hope the direction you point is the right direction

Lambie said..
"try positioning the board to the side of you nose down wind opposite side to the direction you wish to start.
then front foot on or in keeping kite on same side of wind window as board."

Well now Im even more confused !!

Me too and I'm into my 3rd season of foilboarding. You can position a foilboard same as you would for a tt . As you start the nose will point more downwind/toward the kite.
When learning to waterstart key points are
1. Keep kite high.... between 11&1
This generates more uplift on your harness and less forward thrust.
2. Once you manage to lift yourself onto the board your position should be standing straight upright. Any edging at this stage will usually result in bad things.

The only difference between a TT, surfboard or foil is the relative sensitivity to control inputs. A foil is simply far more sensitive and reactive to control inputs. You make exactly the same inputs, but you have to refine your feel so that you don't overdo it.

There is no special way to water start a foil. It is exactly the same as a TT. You just can't get away with stomping your feet and wanging the kite as much. You have to feel it a bit more. Be a bit less aggressive with the kite and more precise with rear foot placement. Put your back foot too far back and the leverage of the foil will amplify the force straight back at you.

The good news is that once you develop the feel then everything is the same. You can blast around and stomp a foil to your heart's content. The stronger reactions become a thing to enjoy and take advantage of rather than something to fear.

Gorgo said..
The only difference between a TT, surfboard or foil is the relative sensitivity to control inputs. A foil is simply far more sensitive and reactive to control inputs. You make exactly the same inputs, but you have to refine your feel so that you don't overdo it.

There is no special way to water start a foil. It is exactly the same as a TT. You just can't get away with stomping your feet and wanging the kite as much. You have to feel it a bit more. Be a bit less aggressive with the kite and more precise with rear foot placement. Put your back foot too far back and the leverage of the foil will amplify the force straight back at you.

The good news is that once you develop the feel then everything is the same. You can blast around and stomp a foil to your heart's content. The stronger reactions become a thing to enjoy and take advantage of rather than something to fear.

That's a very good way of putting it. It is no different to a TT or SB but far more sensitive to initial set up errors such as board angle, foot position or what part of the window you send the kite through when water starting. Then the errors are magnified and most of the time you can't muscle your way out of it when things start going pear shaped. The foil will always win. You just have to bite the bullet, re-set and start again.

Adfreetv said..
Thanks 'Team Larry David' for all your great input.

To be more specific, the main problem is my location and I can't or won't change that. It's an ocean beach with up to 5 lines of small to medium breakers to get through (about 50m) before I am out the back and deep enough to start. It is a nice curved and sandy beach but with the wind blowing cross-shore I only get about 5 starts before I am blown downwind into the curve of the beach and the breakers again. I do about 2 or 3 walks of shame a session and repeat the process. So this is why I originally thought the smaller mast would help.

So - I can now body drag out, start by rolling up onto the top of the board with as little power as possible and then dribble along a bit before something goes tits up. My record is about 100M maybe 2 sessions ago. What happens is that I don't feel comfortable cruising with the board flat on the water. We porpoise and nose dive and I feel I should be further forward. I am using a lot of kite input to control my speed (too fast then too slow (very ham-fisted)) so I can't take my front hand off the bar and open my body to the direction of travel like I know I should. My board is the 132cm smaller J Shapes board and I feel that my front foot strap is not far enough forward but I also think I need more nose (bigger board) to help with the nose dives. With my back foot just in front of the mast (or on the front mast screw) and my front foot in the front strap, I feel like my feet are too close together?? I think that this is my major issue.

So - we do have some progression but it's now been some time since my best 100m run (where I did get my front hand off the bar and kept the kite still-ish).

In for a penny, in for a pound - based on these reviews of the Cruiser, I think I better get one.

Cheers Team - we will get there

Hi Adfree. It sounds like you have multiple challenges.

Most of your time is spent body dragging out and then in and then out again. Very time consuming and inefficient.
You need to be somewhere (just a few times ) which can give you the chance to get those first few winner runs without other challenges. Then it will come together much more quickly.
Your 100 metre run then needs to be repeated many times ... kite control and board control need to all come together in a step by step process ....but that will take lots of repetition .... even without changing your gear for better options.
I had SO many stacks. 100s

That's a choice for you and probably your biggest constraint at the moment on that gear . It's sounds like a nice spot to foil once you get going ??

I learnt on the 155 ...and reckon it would be more difficult on that shorter board as it wont give you as much stability ... and I don't know if the front foot straps are closer to the mast which would add to your problems.
Maybe others who know will comment.
I am only just starting to see that I don't need as much board after a year on the jshapes as now I am proficient I guess.

The cruzer foil will make it easier . It's less reactive and more balanced than the free ride one. But I still love riding the freeride foil also.

There is so much info about controllling the ride with body positioning.

My bit of advice to control the porpoising to start with is ...before you first sine the kite .... take a moderate forward body position , bent front knee and hips forward ... that way you are already forward when you get up.
Even if you have your back foot in front of the mast your upper body could still be leaning back against the kite causing the porpoising.
Getting forward after you are up can be tricky as it feels counter intuitive.

Leaning back against the kite is something we take for granted on sbs or tts. It kills you when learning to foil.
You have to get used to standing up fairly straight and in line with the mast or it throws the balance out. Head placement is fairly critical to this.
I imagined I was balancing on a small platform using the kite to help me stay fairly upright until board speed got to the point where the foil would start to fly.

Hope that helps a little.

Cheers.