I'm looking for a kite to extend my foiling time.

I have a couple of Core XLs and can get going in about 8kts on the 9m with my Sabfoil 633 wing but its not a lot of fun. Unless its pretty onshore the stress of maybe dropping the kite outside followed by a long swim in sends me quickly back to the beach.

I don't really want to go out in less wind, just have a bit more power to make gybing easier.

I think the obvious choices are a 10m Flysurfer Soul or a 9m Ozone Hyperlink. But a Black Friday deal on a Soul2 is literally half the price of the Ozone so it looks like a no-brainer. What am I missing? I'm 60kgs.

I would avoid ram air kites in very light wind unless you're absolutely an expert in flying kites and never drop them. Depending on the kite, ram air kites fly very differently to LEI and can drop out of the sky very easily. Once down they can be un-relaunchable in light winds. Swimming in can be a mission.

I bought a single strut 2023 North Code Zero 9m on sale. It has been a bit of a game changer for me. It is very light, very powerful and handles just like every other LEI. It's almost a single kite foiling quiver for me.

It is so light it floats in the air in very light wind. The dreaded getting stuck at the edge of the window and settling on the surface pretty much never happens.

The few times the wind dropped out completely the kite sat on the surface then pretty much self relaunched in the next gust.

My old kites all weigh 3.5kg. The North weighs 2.2kg which is why it stays in the air so easily. There are other single strut and zero strut kites out there.

The range is similar to normal LEI, but it tends to flutter a bit when depowered. North say they reduced flutter in the 2024 model.

If you're not worried about relaunch then the Flysurfer Peak floats in almost nothing and are very powerful. My 8m weighs about 800 grams. The light wind capability is impressive, but the wind range is poor compared to an LEI. When overpowered it flutters like a mad thing, the tips can collapse and it can become uncontrollable. Most people rate the 6m as a better option, but it takes more skill and looping to get yourself out of the water.

The Flysurfer Hybrids are excellent fun. Handle just like an LEI. Relaunch pretty well. Drift backwards quite well on waves. They're a little more demanding to land.

With all foil kites managing bridles is an acquired skill. You have to be careful and methodical. They're easy enough to deal with practice, but you will have some messes to deal with.

Gorgo makes some very good points.

A lot of people who are inexperienced with foil kites think they are a magic wand and they will suddenly transform their lightwind game, but it's not the case.

You need to build a particular set of skills for the foil kites to start to become an advantage over high-performance lightweight LEI kites.
If you are happy to go through that learning curve and do a couple of swims with a kite that is filling up with water, go ahead!

The real benefit of a foil kite in the 8 knots range would be speed i.e. racing. Kitefoil Racers can go incredibly fast on very large foil kites in sub-10 knots winds, but they are using massive sizes 18m / 21m, which cost an absolute fortune!

What size is your largest LEI kite ?

Personally, I use the 12m Airush Ultra team for foiling in about 7-12 knots. A 14m would be great to cover the 6-10 knots range.
I've also used the 17 Airush Ultra team for foiling in 4-8 knots without any worries.

I couldn't find the weight of the Core XL in the larger sizes, but the 12m Ultra team is only 2.39 kg and the 14m 2.62 kg.

In case you're located in WA and want to demo the Ultra Teams, send me a PM.

Christian - KiteBud

2 posts and this thread is done!

I'm just adding that I've done lots of light wind foiling and owned lots of kites for it. I've owned the 6m Peak and 11m Peaks and tried the 8m, I've owned an 11m Chrono and a 10m PLKB Nova ultralight. I've also had an 11m UFO and 11m (I think?) BRM cloud C. Plus a 12m Naish Trip no strut.

Currently the 12m Airush Ultra Team is also my weapon of choice, after owning all those and trying a few others.

I can't comment on the hyperlink (except don't get an old 1st gen) and I can say that the Souls are too slow in the sky for me, booooorrrring. I tried a 12m soul 1 for light winds and it makes heaps of grunt and great for lofty jumps in gusts but you could pull the bar then go off and make a cuppa before the kite reacts. I think the Soul 3 has been reshaped to be more responsive.

The Ultra Team on the other hand is very snappy for it's size, turns and accelerates well and is light enough to hang in the sky through the lulls. It's equivalent to the OR Aluula Flite 12 my mate flies - that would be a good choice as well.

The 10 Soul is a lot of fun in the light stuff. I use Clouds up 8mts, after that a 10mtr Gin Spirit (replaced a 10 Soul). Yes, foil kites are a learning curve but nothing will get you going in lighter wind and still relaunch if needed. And if you plan to ever learn tacks, well only the foil kites are has enough lift for the foot switch.

I have a 10m soul and have used if for foiling a fair bit.

Low end for me is about 2 knots less than my 9m Airush ultra. I reckon I can kite in maybe 7knots. Relaunch appears to be better than an LEI - but only for a short period of time. I've relaunched once or twice when the Aluula Roams and single struts can't relaunch. However, an LEI is a massive amount easier if the kite stays in the water for more than a few minutes.

Power wise though, I reckon its pretty similar to a 12 or 13m LEI. I've been out a few times with a 13m Juice and he looked equally as powered. I'd say the comparison to the 12m Ultra is probably about right. That would kite in similar windspeeds.

The soul is good if you want to boost or for good lift for learning tricks - but its real selling point is as a versatile travel kite. If you have enough space to store a kite for a twin tip AND a hydrofoil kite then you can be a bit more specific.

I haven't ridden the latest Hyperlink but I did test the previous version. Liked it a lot but its less powerful than the souls. The handling seemed a little more friendly (inflated quicker and backstalling to land seemed easier) but it didn't rocket you up when jumping on a twin tip as well as the soul.

I'm still a very mediocre foiler, and always looking for some equipment upgrade to help me. At 67 y.0, I learn very slowly.

Like Gorgo, my favourite kite is the North Code Zero 9m, which does me nicely from about 14-19 knots. I want something to get me going in 10-15 knots. Currently demoing a Peak4 5m. Spent more time untangling lines than flying it so far, but it is an amazing kite. Took it out on the water last night, after having practiced in very light wind (3-5 knots), on land. Wind was around 10 knots but dropping as the sun went down. I would not have been able to keep my 9m in the air - no problem with the Peak though. I could just bodydrag out to deep enough water to launch, and after a couple of attempts I managed to get to my feet, but I just couldn't get a second dive in before I sank.

I think an 8m would definitely do it for me, but i've heard other people ay not to go bigger than the 6m.

I think the best way to manage the lines is to just leave your bar connected all the time. I'm dreading the day when I hit the water with it. What's your experience, Gorgo, with relaunching on the water?

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Gorgo said..
I would avoid ram air kites in very light wind unless you're absolutely an expert in flying kites and never drop them. Depending on the kite, ram air kites fly very differently to LEI and can drop out of the sky very easily. Once down they can be un-relaunchable in light winds. Swimming in can be a mission.

I bought a single strut 2023 North Code Zero 9m on sale. It has been a bit of a game changer for me. It is very light, very powerful and handles just like every other LEI. It's almost a single kite foiling quiver for me.

It is so light it floats in the air in very light wind. The dreaded getting stuck at the edge of the window and settling on the surface pretty much never happens.

The few times the wind dropped out completely the kite sat on the surface then pretty much self relaunched in the next gust.

My old kites all weigh 3.5kg. The North weighs 2.2kg which is why it stays in the air so easily. There are other single strut and zero strut kites out there.

The range is similar to normal LEI, but it tends to flutter a bit when depowered. North say they reduced flutter in the 2024 model.

If you're not worried about relaunch then the Flysurfer Peak floats in almost nothing and are very powerful. My 8m weighs about 800 grams. The light wind capability is impressive, but the wind range is poor compared to an LEI. When overpowered it flutters like a mad thing, the tips can collapse and it can become uncontrollable. Most people rate the 6m as a better option, but it takes more skill and looping to get yourself out of the water.

The Flysurfer Hybrids are excellent fun. Handle just like an LEI. Relaunch pretty well. Drift backwards quite well on waves. They're a little more demanding to land.

With all foil kites managing bridles is an acquired skill. You have to be careful and methodical. They're easy enough to deal with practice, but you will have some messes to deal with.

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murrayceff said..
I'm still a very mediocre foiler, and always looking for some equipment upgrade to help me. At 67 y.0, I learn very slowly.

Like Gorgo, my favourite kite is the North Code Zero 9m, which does me nicely from about 14-19 knots. I want something to get me going in 10-15 knots. Currently demoing a Peak4 5m. Spent more time untangling lines than flying it so far, but it is an amazing kite. Took it out on the water last night, after having practiced in very light wind (3-5 knots), on land. Wind was around 10 knots but dropping as the sun went down. I would not have been able to keep my 9m in the air - no problem with the Peak though. I could just bodydrag out to deep enough water to launch, and after a couple of attempts I managed to get to my feet, but I just couldn't get a second dive in before I sank.

I think an 8m would definitely do it for me, but i've heard other people ay not to go bigger than the 6m.

I think the best way to manage the lines is to just leave your bar connected all the time. I'm dreading the day when I hit the water with it. What's your experience, Gorgo, with relaunching on the water?

Gorgo said..
I would avoid ram air kites in very light wind unless you're absolutely an expert in flying kites and never drop them. Depending on the kite, ram air kites fly very differently to LEI and can drop out of the sky very easily. Once down they can be un-relaunchable in light winds. Swimming in can be a mission.

I bought a single strut 2023 North Code Zero 9m on sale. It has been a bit of a game changer for me. It is very light, very powerful and handles just like every other LEI. It's almost a single kite foiling quiver for me.

It is so light it floats in the air in very light wind. The dreaded getting stuck at the edge of the window and settling on the surface pretty much never happens.

The few times the wind dropped out completely the kite sat on the surface then pretty much self relaunched in the next gust.

My old kites all weigh 3.5kg. The North weighs 2.2kg which is why it stays in the air so easily. There are other single strut and zero strut kites out there.

The range is similar to normal LEI, but it tends to flutter a bit when depowered. North say they reduced flutter in the 2024 model.

If you're not worried about relaunch then the Flysurfer Peak floats in almost nothing and are very powerful. My 8m weighs about 800 grams. The light wind capability is impressive, but the wind range is poor compared to an LEI. When overpowered it flutters like a mad thing, the tips can collapse and it can become uncontrollable. Most people rate the 6m as a better option, but it takes more skill and looping to get yourself out of the water.

The Flysurfer Hybrids are excellent fun. Handle just like an LEI. Relaunch pretty well. Drift backwards quite well on waves. They're a little more demanding to land.

With all foil kites managing bridles is an acquired skill. You have to be careful and methodical. They're easy enough to deal with practice, but you will have some messes to deal with.

I have Peaks in sizes 4m to 11m, and have very rarely had to swim in.
11m can get me going as long as there's enough wind to keep it in the air, which is very little! When it did fall down once, there was no point in even trying to relaunch due to practically zero wind. It's a big bundle of cloth to gather together to swim in, so good to have a plan to deal with that!
Otherwise, if there's reasonable wind they usually relaunch easily unless the water's rough and they get drowned be a wave before I can get them up.
At around 70kg, I rarely use my 11m Peak4 now since getting an 8m Peak5, as that thing can generate plenty of power most days (guessing anything over 6 or 7 knots) without being so slow to turn. The smaller sizes just can't build enough power at that wind speed, however many loops I make them do.

Another kite to consider is the Gin maribou2. Relaunch is like hybrids- upwind is main advantage over Peaks.
I picked up tips from KBGhost and others. When using my Peaks offshore can be 2 kms out. I always take a string bag if kite crashes & swamps use this for pack down sling over shoulder can ignore. Have spare short leash to keep board from floating off and I take a flipper (hangs off back harness) helps with swim in. Once kite lines go slack in light wind I go for board then relaunch. My max is 8m - an 11m peak really would be a handful to sort -
cheers AP

Thanks to you all who took the time to respond. Sorry for my slow reply, I've been distracted for a while. Some really insightful comments here that have changed my mind about the way to go.

First a bit of background: I'm only want a kite for foiling. I don't own a twin tip. If there are real waves I'll use a surfboard strapless. 72 year old knees and hangtime don't really mix....

To those who suggested a bigger tube kite I'm sure that's not the answer. My 9m Core XL is a very light single strut made specifically for foiling. I have a 12m Airush Wave I haven't used in years - I'm 60kgs and my 9m Wave is almost always a better choice, maybe with longer lines or a floatier surfboard. A 12m is usually too big or too small.

I was concerned a 10m Soul might be too powerful and I think the feedback here confirm this. I've had some bad experiences with a 10m Trip - if it would fly then I was overpowered.

So I think the way to go is an 8m Peak (or maybe a Gin Marabou, but finding a Peak looks easier). I've watched some videos and it flies like I think a kite should and the learning curve should be fun. I'll get a pack and some fins (and maybe a PFD) for when I feel like straying further from the shore.

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Haylingchrist said..


I was concerned a 10m Soul might be too powerful and I think the feedback here confirm this. I've had some bad experiences with a 10m Trip - if it would fly then I was overpowered.

The Trip was a sh!thouse kite though - worst of all the kites I've tried for foiling by a country mile. I think the v2 or later year was marginally better. Mine would spontaneously pop inside out sometimes and the only way to fix it was to partially deflate, then fix and reinflate.

Hi Haylingchrist,

I'm a big fan of the 4m Gin Marabou V2 for kitefoiling. Foil kites make sense for kite foiling.

I'm 95kg and use it from just before the whitecaps on Botany Bay start to show (~15 knots). Note that I also use a large 1300cm2 front foil and enjoy downwinding in chop or swell with the kite drifting as much as possible.

Being able to relaunch after a piloting error is a big pro over the Flysurfer peak alternative. I have dropped and relaunched the Marabou countless times (get tired just thinking of all the swims I'd have undertaken if I was kiting a Flysurfer peak).

Have chased a Flysurfer hybrid out of curiosity, but prefer how my Gin Marabou works (less flapping and higher performance / kite aspect).

I'd never use my strapless surfboards with a foil kite... only LEI / tube kite.

I previously thought I'd need a foil kite for those lower wind days. Honestly just super happy with my zero strut LEIs. They can get me going in really marginal wind and they're still far more playful than a RAM. I ride a 633 front wing on those days too. Really playful with great steady lift.

Anyone riding the F-One Target?

Mid aspect ram air launched in 2023. Not finding any reviews

Twin skin foil kites are not the best tool for the job, and even the single skins have obvious drawbacks. The latest Ozone Alpha V3 UltraX ticks all the boxes for light wind and foiling performance. Zero flutter, one strut design with snappy turning and amazing drift and stability. Definitely one to consider.
ozonekites.com/kite/kites/alpha-v3-ultra-x/

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Wow!
There's some really interesting perspectives on this thread . As someone who has ridden both inflatables and ram airs, I think I might post my thoughts.

I've ridden lightweight tube kites, Peaks, Hybrids, and Ram Airs, both Freeride and Race on both foils and twin tips. In fact, a couple of seasons ago, I rode a one kite quiver. The Flysurfer Soul 2, 10m. I have two bars an infinity bar with 20m lines and a race bar with 12m lines. I was riding foil in light winds and TT in stronger winds. With this combination, I was able to ride from 6 knots up to 25knots.

Are Ram Air kites difficult to fly? No. However, saying that, if you expect them to fly and behave like an inflatable, then you may find the transition a little bumpy. As with any new tech or product, there is a need to update skills. The problems arise from Inflato riders expecting to just hit the water with a Ram-Air kite and fancying they'll just fly them like they always have before.

If you take the time to thoroughly learn the nuances and specific skills required to get the most out of a ram air kite, you will find they will relaunch in winds even the best inflatable kite could only dream of. You see, the inflatables are fine in the air, but once they fall in the water, they are very difficult to relaunch into air speeds that they will fly in quite happily whilst high in the win window and dry. The difference with a ram air kite, is if it can fly, it can water relaunch. And that right there is the difference between inflatables and ram air kites in low wind.

I could ride at 20 knots on a 21m Race kite in just 5 knots of wind and relaunch it in 5 knots or even less and have done so many times in the river in light wind sessions when the river would sometimes glass off completely to stillness. The ram air will sit on the surface and float without taking on water, so long as you don't pull on any lines trying to launch in wind too light. Simply wait for the slight gust and relaunch.

The cost to buy a ram air kite is cheaper than the cost of an Aluula or lightweight specialty inflatable so there is no cost advantage buying inflatables.

There are definitely kite specific techniques to using the larger higher aspect ram-airs when compared to inflatables, especially on very short lines. I really enjoyed learning the intricacies of getting the most out of a ram air kite, but like many that came before me, I just went at it and learned a lot of lessons the hard way. If I had someone show me a few tricks when I started, it would have been easier and more fun.

It still to this day feels like riding a horse and cart (riding inflatable) compared to the efficiency and power of a quality ram-air kite.

My 2c worth

DM