So does anyone feel cheated? Its an incredible story. Hard to believe that this could happen on that size scale with no one coming forward - not even a dis-heartened employee at some point. Surely more than a few people knew what was going on.


Nice summary here


What has VW done?
The company has falsified emissions data on its vehicles in the US, pretending its cars were cleaner than they are

How did they do it?
By installing a piece of software into computers on its cars that recognise when the car is being tested – a so-called "defeat device". This fine-tunes the engine’s performance to limit nitrogen oxide emissions. When used on the road, the emissions levels shoot back up

How widespread is the problem?
Regulators say 482,000 diesel cars were sold in the US from 2008 to 2015 with emissions certificates based on this faulty information

Which models are involved?
The allegations, which have been admitted by VW, cover the Jetta, Beetle, Audi A3 and Golf models from 2009 to 2015 and the Passat in 2014 and 2015

Is it just VW doing this?
A US investigation has been widened to other car manufacturers as campaigners warned that the practice was likely to be widespread across the industry

The thing that confuses me is that Volkswagon Group owns a number of other marques, so why is VW doing this, and not the others, or why didn't VW get the design technology from the others so that they didn't need to do this.

Also, would be interesting to know who was in the know within the company and who gave the nod for it to happen?

It is amazing that they kept it under wraps for 6 years.

This will answer your questions.....

www.news.com.au/technology/innovation/motoring/the-who-what-and-why-of-volkswagens-diesel-scandal/news-story/c85b7b40002550588e1437f6ae86eba5

Haven't the bike manufacturers been doing something similar to get around the decibel limits on exhausts for years? Tweak the engine to be a little quieter at the known testing points on the RPM's or whatever?

"Everything Volkswagen did in the USA was hugely illegal, so they will have to face the consequences. In the US alone, it’s expected that up to $25 billion in fines will be dealt for all the diesel vehicles sold there since 2009. It would also be very surprising not to see other countries with stricter emissions standards slap fines on Volkswagen, too. "

Who is the beneficiary of the $25 billion in fines ?

Do the punters who bought a VW on the supposed "GREEN" credentials of the cars get a cut or does the gummit grab the lot ???

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Chris6791 said..
Haven't the bike manufacturers been doing something similar to get around the decibel limits on exhausts for years? Tweak the engine to be a little quieter at the known testing points on the RPM's or whatever?

At least noise pollution isn't as poisonous and long lasting as nitrogen oxide pollution. I feel a bit let down by them for this - wilful environmental vandalism for the sake of profit. I always thought the Germans were above that sort of thing. Unknowing environmental vandalism of the past is one thing, but this is something else entirely...

Could the company survive a $25 billion fine? Damn, that's huge!

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Ted the Kiwi said..
So does anyone feel cheated? Its an incredible story. Hard to believe that this could happen on that size scale with no one coming forward - not even a dis-heartened employee at some point. Surely more than a few people knew what was going on.

<snip>

Is it just VW doing this?
A US investigation has been widened to other car manufacturers as campaigners warned that the practice was likely to be widespread across the industry

I suspect that other manufacturers would have been doing the same. After all, if you are a competitor and you read VWs fuel economy, performance, and emissions levels, you probably can't achieve them yourself. If VW can't do it legally, who can?

So, as a competitor, you sell a vehicle that puts out less power and/or has poorer economy, or you cheat as well.

I wonder if they did the first or the second?

Its not as if VW would have superior technology that you couldn't reverse engineer, so if there were any competitors in this type of car, they would probably have known.

VW even had some old wives talking dirty.

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Chris6791 said..
Haven't the bike manufacturers been doing something similar to get around the decibel limits on exhausts for years? Tweak the engine to be a little quieter at the known testing points on the RPM's or whatever?

No that's not similar at all. The bike they test is the one that is running around the streets. There's no special feature in the muffler that detects a db meter. The regulators would be fully aware of and allow for what " little" can be done with muffler sweet spots. Anyway you can't be secretive about noise.

VW ran an out and out scam.

Is that why Herbie went so fast?

A couple of questions: why? They were well on their way to world domination anyway. Was the risk/reward worth ever really there?

How did they manage to keep it secret for so long? Sounds like no one from VW ever gave the game away.

The worst part of this is it could cause a global recession if not handled properly.

Hmmm, seems there has been a lot of smoke and (wing) mirrors surrounding this scandal

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Ian K said..

Chris6791 said..
Haven't the bike manufacturers been doing something similar to get around the decibel limits on exhausts for years? Tweak the engine to be a little quieter at the known testing points on the RPM's or whatever?

No that's not similar at all. The bike they test is the one that is running around the streets. There's no special feature in the muffler that detects a db meter. The regulators would be fully aware of and allow for what " little" can be done with muffler sweet spots. Anyway you can't be secretive about noise.

VW ran an out and out scam.

Yes, but it's for emissions tests - they just lean the fuel map at and below whatever RPM they test bikes at... as well as a lean factory map all over.

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patsken said..


[/b]Who is the beneficiary of the $25 billion in fines ?

I am guessing they will give all that money to Elon Musk , to do more Tesla, electric vehicles.

Fair compensation to nature from automobile industry.

The uk road tax system works around emissions, for instance my dad's olds vectra cost $450 where my uncles low im mission polo costs $50, so I'm pretty sure the government will be chasing that lost revenue , the vw diesels would still shidt on your yanky cars immissions , so I carnt see why there getting so cranky

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da vecta said..


How did they manage to keep it secret for so long? .

That reminds me that Moon Landing conspiracy was anyhow possible too ....

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GreenPat said..

At least noise pollution isn't as poisonous and long lasting as nitrogen oxide pollution.gif

I always suspected that beattles where too good, not to break sound and pollution limits

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Macroscien said..

da vecta said..


How did they manage to keep it secret for so long? .

That reminds me that Moon Landing conspiracy was anyhow possible too ....

Just proves the point that grand conspiracies always come unstuck. How long ago was the moon landing? It'd be unstuck by now. But yes it's surprising the deception lasted for so long. Must have been a few involved in the scam. What were they thinking?

No no "they" are so clever
as proven by how nobody dobbed in the moon landing, or 9/11 or that other one....

I don't see what the problem is. I was looking at the reactive pathways for the breakdown of tailpipe NO emissions, expecting nitrates, good for the garden, then Wikipedia told me that there is also an effect on global warming


NOx emissions also causes global cooling through the formation of OH groups that destroy methane molecules, countering the effect of greenhouse gases. The effect can be significant. For instance, according to the OECD "the large NOx emissions from ship traffic lead to significant increases in hydroxyl (OH), which is the major oxidant in the lower atmosphere. Since reaction with OH is a major way of removing methane from the atmosphere, ship emissions decrease methane concentrations. (Reductions in methane lifetimes due to shipping-based NOx emissions vary between 1.5% and 5% in different calculations)." "In summary, most studies so far indicate that ship emissions actually lead to a net global cooling

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Macroscien said..

GreenPat said..

At least noise pollution isn't as poisonous and long lasting as nitrogen oxide pollution.gif

I always suspected that beattles where too good, not to break sound and pollution limits

Seen the gixxer powered Smart cars? $5000 kite for 170hp upgrade

Scandal!! What scandal!!

Volkswagen is " just one of the comforts you call your home ".

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Macroscien said...

da vecta said..


How did they manage to keep it secret for so long? .

That reminds me that Moon Landing conspiracy was anyhow possible too ....

No it doesn't. Maybe similar to Lance Armstrong winning the Tour de France.

and still more admissions from VW....

www.theshovel.com.au/2015/09/25/volkswagens-pre-fitted-with-pretentious-wankers-company-admits-2/

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Mr Milk said...
I don't see what the problem is. I was looking at the reactive pathways for the breakdown of tailpipe NO emissions, expecting nitrates, good for the garden, then Wikipedia told me that there is also an effect on global warming


NOx emissions also causes global cooling through the formation of OH groups that destroy methane molecules, countering the effect of greenhouse gases. The effect can be significant. For instance, according to the OECD "the large NOx emissions from ship traffic lead to significant increases in hydroxyl (OH), which is the major oxidant in the lower atmosphere. Since reaction with OH is a major way of removing methane from the atmosphere, ship emissions decrease methane concentrations. (Reductions in methane lifetimes due to shipping-based NOx emissions vary between 1.5% and 5% in different calculations)." "In summary, most studies so far indicate that ship emissions actually lead to a net global cooling

By heating the planet with our emissions methane escapes freshwater wetlands and lake sediment entering the atmosphere at a much increased rate.
It seems like a cooling effect untill the build up of all these elements hits a tipping point, and then it is a irreversible situation.

I looked at carsales.com, to see if I could pick up one of these as a bargain.

Was hoping to pick up a bargain Golf or Passat Wagon if there is a huge price drop,
as the engines are good and the Wagon is big enough for all the surf gear

No bargains to be had anywhere yet ....

VW gave the customer what they wanted, diesel cars that are economical and has power. As a result it puts out more emissions than it is legally supposed to put out. Unfortunately this means the US government doesn't get what it wants. Who is more important, the customer or the government? Whose interest does the government have close to its heart?

VW could make a car that puts out what its legally supposed to put out but then it would probably not be as powerful and probably not be as reliable. People say the VWs put out 400% more emissions than they are legally supposed to or something like that. So what? The legal emissions are so low that the actual amount over the limit is quite small.

This is just a ploy but the American government to kill diesel cars in America because American car makers don't know how make diesel cars and are not interested in learning how. So they want the government to kill their opposition.

I'm no VW fanboi, I never owned one and from what I've read and heard about their reliability, I don't plan to buy one.